posted
Has anyone experienced elevated Liver enyzmes and what were the causes? Is it possible one or more of my supplements will cause it?
I have been on oral antibiotics for 16 months with no problems other than relapsing. The blood work from the day my PICC line went in showed some liver enzyme elevation. So this elevation started before I began IV Rocephin and after a week holiday from oral antibiotics. Blood work a week later (Friday) shows they are more elevated so the Dr. office called and I am to take Rocephin every other day and stop my Flagyl pulse this week until I see them on Friday.
Now I am trying to do some detective work before my Dr. visit on Friday. I added some supplements between my September 13th blood work and the blood work last week with the elevated liver enzymes.
I had my last four mercury fillings removed Oct. 1st and I had added Chorella 1000mg to get rid of any mercury. I also added Charcoal (25mg) but stopped that per my MD office last week. I have now stopped the Chorella.
So....my question....anyone suspect supplements in elevated liver enzyme levels. I know I have to protect my liver but I am really bummed about backing off the Rocephin and Flagyl. Really want to get well!!!! Maybe I have just too many toxins and I need to back off...just want to rule out supplements. I do take a lot of other ones but these are the ones I added recently.
posted
Hi........I had an experience with my liver enzymes too high a couple months ago.......
I was taking ultram that has a lot of tylenol in it.....my LLMD send me for a test at the hospital to check and make sure the liver was not damaged........
My liver was fine but he took me off the ultram finding that taking too much tylenol in any form of medication sometimes causes the liver enzymes to rise.......
I changed to Darvocet and was retested and the liver enzymes were normal......
Talk to your dr. and see if maybe that's what is going on.......too much tylenol.........
God bless you.......as we all struggle together to conquer this complicated disease.......
------------------ Debbie V.
Posts: 125 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by vandeb: I was taking ultram that has a lot of tylenol in it
Hi ~ I am not aware that ultram has any tylenol in it. I have been taking it for years, so checked it out before I took it.
Did your LLMD tell you that?
Here is an excerpt from RxList.com:
"Ultram tablets contain 50 mg of tramadol hydrochloride and are white in color. Inactive ingredients in the tablet are corn starch, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, lactose, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, polyethylene glycol, polysorbate 80, sodium starch glycolate, titanium dioxide and wax. "
I have elevated liver enzymes, so this thread caught my eye and especially the mention of ultram.
posted
hhhhmmmmmmmm now you got me to thinking........maybe it was something else besides tylenol.......part of that brain fog that goes with Lyme......seriously......
My LLMD sent me to my family doctor to run the liver tests because he doesn't go to the hospitals for procedures.....my regular doctor was the one that told me about the results.......
maybe it's something other than tylenol.....I'll have to call and check.....I'd hate to give out false information.....
however, I've had them checked several times and the only meds that were changed was the ultram.......so ultimately they assume it was something in it.....I'll find out......thanks for the info.......
------------------ Debbie V.
Posts: 125 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Hi there, Work on liver detox. Are you taking any Milkthistle?
In the very beginning for me, my liver value were in the 500's at Labcorp. All of them! I had hepatitis! They thought my liver was going to rupture! I looked like a barrel!
I had lyme and a raging case of both ehrlichia's-HGE & HME. Was positive for Mono, EBV. I was a mess.
I was also taking...Tylenol to control fever. (which did not work) Something I never had done before in my life.
As soon as I had that first blood panel done, wow it scared me. I have never taken another tylenol pill and I am very careful.
The milk thistle brought everything down into the normal limits. I still take milkthistle and another homeopathic liver detox drops under the tongue.
I only starting to take my antiboitics and suppliments only. Milkethistle twice a day. Got to detox the liver. Yes, some of the antiotics are hard on the liver. That is why we have to keep doing metabolic blood panels.
Oh, are you on mepron for babesia? This can do it too. Milkthistle really helped me.
posted
Barngirl, Thanks for the info. I asked about milk thistle at my LLMD office a couple of weeks ago and the nurse said don't take it but I see a lot of entries on this board where people are getting good results with it. I'll ask again on Friday.
I do take some Tylenol but not much...maybe two every other day but I'll stop that.
Not on Mepron yet....It's on plan for week 13 of IV therapy and I am just on week 2. Don't know what adjustments we'll make because of the liver situation.
posted
Yep, Mom had elevated enzymes - LLMD called it "chemical hepatitis" and said it was from the abx...Biaxin was the culprit, I think. He keeps pretty close tabs on her liver and has her back off on the meds when he sees cause for concern.
I second the milk thistle recommendation! Also, there are some things you can do to "baby" your liver until it heals - avoid high fat foods, take digestive enzymes, etc.
The liver is a wonderful thing - capable of rengeneration! Take care of your liver and it will take care of you. Good luck!
quote:Originally posted by vandeb: hhhhmmmmmmmm now you got me to thinking........maybe it was something else besides tylenol.......part of that brain fog that goes with Lyme......seriously......
My LLMD sent me to my family doctor to run the liver tests because he doesn't go to the hospitals for procedures.....my regular doctor was the one that told me about the results.......
maybe it's something other than tylenol.....I'll have to call and check.....I'd hate to give out false information.....
however, I've had them checked several times and the only meds that were changed was the ultram.......so ultimately they assume it was something in it.....I'll find out......thanks for the info.......
Hi Debbie,
Thanks for checking into this. I would be very interested if you learn that the active ingredient in ultram (tramadol hydrochloride) can cause liver problems. Please keep me posted as to what your doctor(s) have to say on this.
I did a search using the words "liver problems ultram." You may want to do the same. The main thing I am seeing in relation to ultram and liver problems is increased risk when alcohol is combined with the drug. This can lead to liver problems. Quote: "Do not drink alcohol while taking tramadol. Alcohol may cause a dangerous decrease in breathing and/or liver problems when used during treatment with tramadol."
One other thought - UltraCET (not ultram) contains acetaminophen (tylenol). Ultracet: Each tablet contains both 37.5 mg tramadol and 325 mg acetaminophen.
My internist told me that none of the meds I take would be causing my elevated liver tests. However, I have very little faith in my internist. I know that the blood pressure med I am on can cause liver problems and I was told years ago, when put on it, to have liver tests run regularily. The reason my internist feels it is not the BP med is because I take a low dose of it.
My suspicions are that my elevated liver enzymes are being caused by the tick bite. My liver tests have always been good, in fact were even flagged 'low' one time (just by one point). I do not have diagnosed lyme as yet (this is taking forever!), but shortly after being bit (when I did not suspect lyme), I started having an enlarged upper abdomen with great discomfort. I could barely eat small amounts of food without feeling just awful and swelling up worse. I also ended up with largely swollen lymph glands on the right side of my neck and face (tick was attached to right thigh). I went to the internist at that time with those 2 complaints, along with severely increased fatigue and feeling unwell. He ran blood work and the elevated liver (ALT and AST) were discovered (they were fine just 3 months earlier when I had my annual blood work done). They were 2-3 times above the top of the normal range, shortly after the tick bite (about 3-4 weeks - I didn't record the date I was bitten).
About three months after the tick bite, I began having migratory joint pains in most all joints. My hands were the worst, woke up one morning and could not bend 3 fingers on both hands, but half-way. The finger/hand problems continue every day, the other joint aches have mostly disappeared. ONCE the joint problems began, I started to suspect the tick bite causing lyme (and possibly other tick infections as well, due to the swollen glands, etc.).
I am still in the process of either ruling lyme in or out.....waiting on IgeneX test results for a month now to see if that might support a lyme diagnosis. No LLMD's to see in my area and internist and rheumy I have seen are not knowledgeable - so 6 months after the bite, still trying to figure it out.
I appreciate your asking your doctor(s) about their feeling on ultram and why they would suspect the liver abnormalities from that drug.
posted
Hi Bambi.......thanks for the info....I don't drink nor ever have drank alcoholic beverages......so I'm sure that isn't the answer for me......
I will ask my dr. again about the ultram.....I took ultram for fibro for about 2 years.......so it might have been from so long.....
I've only been diagnosed with Lyme after a positive test from Igenex in March of 2004....so after the high liver enzymes my medical dr. removed and ultram and replaced it with darvocet....
I have had no abnormal liver readings since I quit the ultram.....mine were so high my medical dr. sent me to the hospital for tests.......but no damage to the liver thank God.......
it's great we can all come and compare notes and see what works for us.....each situation with Lyme is so different.....and such a complicated disease....especially like people with me that have other physical problems too.....
I hope you can find some answers but it sounds like you definitely have Lyme to me.....just from the info you gave us......
so glad to have this website to be able to talk with others that KNOW and UNDERSTAND what we go thru......
------------------ Debbie V.
Posts: 125 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by vandeb: Hi Bambi.......thanks for the infoI will ask my dr. again about the ultram.....
I took ultram for fibro for about 2 years.......so it might have been from so long.....
Hi Debbie,
Thanks for your reply and sharing your information
Our history sounds similar - I have been on Ultram for 5 years now for Fibromyalgia also (and endometriosis - but prescribed originally for FMS and does more for that than the endometriosis). I would surely hate to have to stop taking that med. It has been a Godsend for my FMS symptoms. I have taken from 1-3 a day since going on the drug.
I changed the way I took the ultram not too long ago (can't remember when I changed - should have written it down!), taking 2 with my first meal of the day, instead of one - so don't know if that has any bearing on my liver situation. It has worked much better for me that way. I was originally taking 1 pill with my first meal, then having to eat 3 hours later to take a 2nd pill. Now that I take 2 ultram in the beginning of my day, I do better and usually get by with just the 2 pills.
How is the Darvocet working for your FMS symptoms? Was ultram helping you a lot? I am sorry you had to stop taking the ultram if it was working well for your FMS. It helps me a lot with the terrible fatigue, so sure would hate to have to stop taking that ultram for that reason. While another med might treat the pain as well or maybe even better, I need the ultram for the fatigue.
That is wonderful news that your liver tests are back in the normal range and no liver damage!
I had repeat tests about 3 months after the first with the elevated liver levels and they had come down considerably, but still above the normal range. I was very glad to see them come down as much as they had, however.
My upper abdominal symptoms had cleared up by the time I had the second labs done for liver along with the levels dropping, so the two were definitely connected. I am guessing my liver was enlarged at that time. I should have had a CT scan done at that time when things were the worst. I did have one done around the same time as the 2nd labs and nothing abnormal was found regarding the liver on the CT. A cyst was found on my ovary, but I knew about that (endometriosis related).
Yes, it is helpful to compare notes I know what you mean about having multiple health problems and trying to figure out what is causing what and knowing how best to treat all the conditions. I just keep adding more health problems all the time - can't keep up with all the research on it all!
So you had positive test results from IgeneX. My local internist ran the useless EIA IgM, through Lab Corp and it came back negative. I requested that the rheumy he referred me to allow me to have labs sent to IgeneX for the WB. I finally just went and called IgeneX to ask if they had the results dones, since it has been a month since they received them. I was told the results were done 2 weeks ago and mailed out to the doc that ordered them.
I have a call into that doc's nurse to find out if they received them. They told me they would let me know as soon as they got them and send me a copy. SO, I was thinking that IgeneX was running behind, appears that is not the case. IgeneX also asked me for the doc's fax and said they would fax them. They had his fax on the form that accompanied my specimen, but she only mentioned that they mailed the copy of all the paperwork, so not sure if they faxed them also, 2 weeks ago. At least I know she would have done that today.
posted
wow Bambi it sounds like we really do have a lot in common......I have chronic fatigue symdrome along with the fibromyalgia and I give myself B-12 shots 2-3 times a week....
I had a complete hysterectomy in 1997 and gall bladder removed in 2001....the ultram worked great but honestly my LLMD has me on a combination of meds that are doing better for me than the ultram......
I take darvocet, klonopin, prozac, flexeril, neurontin and zithromax.....just a few of the many meds I take......
I still struggle with the aches, pains, headaches, herxes, etc. but I have one of the best LLMD.....he's got Lyme himself so of course he stays up on the latest and best treatments......
even tho Ultram was a non-narcotic drug it seemed to have a lasting effect on my liver so I had to stop it.......I'm very pleased with the other meds and the combination is working for my fatigue as well......
I'll always have to struggle with the fatigue and not over doing things......but most people with Lyme understand that too.....fibro and cfs are very common with Lyme patients too......
so nice to talk with you......keep in touch.......it always helps to know what is working for others......Lyme is a trial and error disease.......complicated and frustrating at times.....
but it's been wonderful to meet such great people in here that deal with the same things I do every day.....God always sends other people to help us when we feel the worst.......
Prayer works too when the meds and disease seem too heavy for us.......I'm glad that my faith can bring me thru the valleys....teaches me to enjoy the mountain tops when they come along too......
------------------ Debbie V.
Posts: 125 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2004
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AZURE WISH
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 804
posted
while I had lyme but before I was diagnosed.... I had an incident where my liver enzymes where high .. they did a bunch of tests....and there was no reason... one of the things they checked for was hepatitis but a,b and c where all negative it was probaly lyme related
one time it was do to a medication i was taking for another health issue...
another few times it was my gullbladder which ultamately had to be removed....
milk thistle helps the liver
ultracet has tylenol in it ....not ultram
I believe Darvacet does as well (im not a 100% positive) but cet usually means tylenol.... percacet has the tylenol ingrediant
best wishes
[This message has been edited by AZURE WISH (edited 03 November 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by AZURE WISH: while I had lyme but before I was diagnosed.... I had an incident where my liver enzymes where high .. it was probaly lyme related
Hi Azure Wish,
Interesting to read about your experience with your liver and your thoughts on it being lyme related.
Yes, Darvocet has acetaminophen (tylenol). Darvocet 50 mg has 325 mg acetaminophen and Darvocet 100 mg has 650 mg acetaminophen.
It was interesting to hear about the B12 shots and meds that you take and some more of your medical history.
Sorry to hear of the surgeries you have been through. I somehow have made it this far without a hysterectomy, but monitoring some problems presently - hope I can still avoid it. My internist also mentioned that I am at the age to be more aware of the possibility of gall bladder problems. He brought that up when I saw him about the upper abdominal problems that I am sure were related to my liver.
It is great that you have such a good LLMD. Very interesting to hear that he also has Lyme. Who better to keep current and understand Lyme from the patient point of view!
My faith gets me through too. God is my rock. AND all the good people here that offer support and shared experiences are invaluable.
Take care, Debbie and I hope you will keep me/us posted on how you are doing.
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Greetings aba... ka dabra...
Milk thistle.
Liver enzymes in Lyme patients are often elevated and especially when on antibiotics... and even more so when herxing.
Some LLMD's prescribe this as a "normal treatment" to help prevent problems.. like my LLMD does.
They actually prescribe it BEFORE starting antibiotics to get a jump start.
I have not seen anyone with problems from using it. Even children have used it and it does reduce the levels back to normal. But then, I am NOT your doctor.. and I can't suggest going against their wishes. Only you can make those choices.
Perhaps your doctor isn't familiar with the use of milk thistle? It is a pretty handy dandy thing... cheap, works.. and no side effects that I have ever noted.
I use the milk thistle extract and/or the tea.. mixed with decaf green tea... basically so I don't have to swallow so many stupid PILLS! I buy it in the health food store. It does come in capsules too.
I have seen children and adults who were told to back off antibiotics when this happened to them.. and use the milk thistle.. and those two things alone improved the liver enzyme readings within a few days.
Remember.. these drugs are chemicals. The liver is already stressed and to store up the additional chemicals too.. well..
If I were your liver I would be bouncing around hollering for help!
posted
hey tincup thanks for all the great info.....I love reading your replies and all the wonderful encouraging funnies you give to us lymies.....
I will definitely ask about the milk thistle....I've seen lots of people on here talk about it....after I quit the ultram my liver readings have been norm......
I go the 11th back to the dr. so I'll have it checked again and also mention the milke thistle.......
keep us informed and definitely keep us laughing.....laughter is so good for the soul........
God bless you
------------------ Debbie V.
Posts: 125 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I had elevated liver enzymes a few months ago. It happened shortly after I started taking olive leaf extract and cats claw. After I stopped those the enzymes went back to normal. I don't know for sure if there is a correlation between the supplements and elevated enzymes, but it seems like there could be.
Posts: 649 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2003
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