posted
Does anyone know if you can take CoQ10 with artemsinin?
I'm thinking of asking my LLMD if I can switch from Malarone to artemisinin (for my babesia) 'cause I'd like to go back on my CoQ10, which interferes w/ Malarone and Mepron.
Thanks! Bec
Posts: 21 | From NY | Registered: Nov 2005
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david1097
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3662
posted
*CAUTION* There have been a number of PUBLISHED reports (I dont have copies) of resistance developing to a mono therepy of artiminisin for malaria, some suspect for babesia also.
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
David, it would help if you could provide more details. Many LLMDs use Artemisinin for Babesia.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
MALARIA parasites found in West Africa are showing signs of resistance to what is thought to be the most powerful antimalarial drug, researchers say.
Artemisinin was introduced in several African countries, including Uganda, after the parasite developed resistance to chloroquine, the most used drug then. In Uganda, four in 10 people on chloroquine and fansidar reported drug resistance. Artemisinin, which is extracted from a Chinese herb known as sweet wormwood, is the most potent and fastest-acting antimalarial so far.
But according to The Lancet of December 3, a team of researchers discovered that some resistance to the drug is coming up in French Guiana and Senegal.
The team took blood samples from 530 malaria patients in Cambodia, French Guiana and Senegal and found samples from French Guiana and Senegal showed signs of resistance. The report suggests that the uncontrolled use of artemisinin might have created conditions favourable for the rise of resistant malaria.
Ronan Jambou, who led the project at the Pasteur Institute in Dakar, Senegal, says "for the moment, we can expect no impact on the treatment of malaria in Africa" because artemisinin is administered not in isolation, but only in combination with other antimalarial drugs.
Dr. John Rwakimari, the manager, Malaria Control Programme in the Ministry of Health, Uganda, echoed his remarks saying there has not been any documented resistance of malaria treatment to Coartem, a combination of artemether and lumifantrine.
"In fact, the use of artemisinin-based combination therapies (ACT) prolongs the life of the drugs in the body and makes the reaction more rapid," he says.
"Antimalarial combinations can increase efficacy, shorten duration of treatment and decrease the risk of resistant parasites."
The resistance scare comes ahead of Uganda's schedule to acquire ACT drugs by start of next year. Rwakimari says Uganda would be receiving two million doses of ACT drugs early next year and thereafter 1.2 million doses each month.
"In a year, we shall have about 15 million doses of ACT drugs to be given freely in all government and NGO-run health units. In March, these new drugs will be in all health centres in the country," Rwakimari says.
Jambou told SciDev.Net that lowered sensitivity to artemisinin in the parasite was associated with mutations, changes in DNA, in a gene called serca, which is known to be sensitive to this class of compound.
To prevent any widespread incidence of artemisinin-resistant malaria, Jambou says monitoring and further research is important.
"We need to survey any appearance of new mutations, especially in Africa, where all the control programmes are currently moving their drug policy to ACTs," Jambou says. Rwakimari said they are prepared for possible resistance to Coartem with several other combinations working elsewhere that could be useful for Uganda.
"There is Amodiaquine and Artesunate combination, Artekin, which is a fixed dose combination drug made up of Dehydroartemisinin, a derivative of artemisinin, and piperaquine and Artecom, another promising single dose drug in its trial," Rwakimari says.
He says the ministry has prepared eight sites in the country that will monitor the use of these new drugs and report any cases of resistance.
The report suggests that the uncontrolled use of artemisinins might have created conditions favourable for the rise of resistant malaria -- especially in French Guiana, where the local parasite population has undergone considerable genetic mutation over time.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
CoQ10 is fine with artemisinin, and as long as you leave several hours between CoQ10 and malarone, you can take them both with not much effect.
But artemisinin by itself won't do you much good. I wish it were possible to tell you that in order to learn more about babesia and malaria, you will have to do extensive research and talk to experts in the field, which would be dramatic and frustrating and impart a sensation of courageously swimming against the tide.
The boring truth, however, is that you can learn all about malaria treatments in a half hour. No fun, but gets the job done. Just go to Google and plug in the following: "malaria," "malarone," "lariam," "Riamet," "primaquine," "relapsing malaria." You will soon see that all the babesia treatments discussed on Lymenet are really malaria drugs, and that unlike babesia, malaria is explained in zillions of websites from around the world.
You may also wish to do a Lymenet search on mepron and malarone. Unfortunately, the relapse rate is very high, so it could save you lots of time and money to learn about the treatments available to you, rather than relying on Lyme doctors for them. Lyme doctors are, by definition, not focused on malaria.
One reason artemisinin-based drugs in Africa don't always work is up to 38% of them are fake. Western travelers are always advised to buy travel medication before going into tropical areas.
Yeah, I've always been unsure what role babesiosis is playing in my illness. I had positive titers, but they were low, and who knows if the infection is active? I do have night sweats, but they are mild, and could just as easily be explained by the Lyme and other infections.
I suppose if I took an anti-malarial agent on its own and felt better, I could conclude that the babesia is active and treatable by meds. But I've only taken those agents along with antibiotics, so it's impossible to tell what's doing what,
As to drug-resistant organisms, sometimes I wonder if I picked up my Lyme from another Lymie (via a flea or mite or something) who had already been treated with long-term antibiotics. I wonder if that's why my illness seems to be so impervious to treatment by abx...
I am inclined to try the artemisinin since I'm still severely ill after 11 months total of Malarone. If I do create resistant strains of babesia, they are unlikely to be transmitted to another human since I am housebound and bedbound, and therefore not exposed to mosquitos or similar vectors.
By the time I am well enough to be out and about, I bet that will mean my immune system has been able to lick whatever arteminisin-resistant babesia I may have created.
Bec
Posts: 21 | From NY | Registered: Nov 2005
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johnnyb
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7645
posted
Again, I would have to say that if you haven't gotten a positive results on a babs test but still have babs, which can happen, it will be hard for most docs to justify putting you on Mepron for the insurance companies, so there aren't many other options left besides art....
I tested neg for babs, but I am herxing on art, and chills, shortness of breath, chest pains are part of my symptoms.
If I have the choice between art (chance of resistance) and doing nothing / suffering, I guess I have to go with art.
If there are other herbal / non-prescription treatments out there for babs, so as to make a non-mono treatment of art and thereby reduce the chance of resistance, please let us know.
- JB
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liz28
Unregistered
posted
Actually, a round-trip plane ticket to England costs less than one bottle of mepron right now. It's possible to just hop... er, collapse feverishly on a plane over a weekend, stop by one of the many travel clinics located throughout London, or anywhere on the Continent, and just buy Riamet. It's completely honorable--Riamet is sold for emergency malaria situations, when you have obvious symptoms but are not near a trustworthy doctor or clinic. It's whole purpose is to save your life fast. You can even take the three-day course hidden away at a bed and breakfast, and fly back home in a horrible but legal herx.
If you do a search on Lymenet, many people have talked about taking Riamet while abroad. Some described needing 2-3 courses, and also say this is no minor drug--it can interact with lots of other medications, and packs a punch. And it does need a follow up: artemisinin supplements, primaquine, whatever. The biggest issue is abnormal heart rhythm seen on the heart monitoring trace (ECG) as a 'prolonged QT interval'
Also, if you have connections with NGOs or religious organizations that do humanitarian work abroad, ask them about their malaria treatment programs.
posted
I was lucky; Medicaid covers Mepron, so I got one bottle. Unfortunately, it didn't seem to do me any good. And if I went back on it I'd have to stop my COQ10, which I don't wanna do, 'cause it's the only thing that keeps me conscious throughout the day.
Bec
Posts: 21 | From NY | Registered: Nov 2005
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liz28
Unregistered
posted
Hi, Bec. I'm not sure if this new info will help you, but it seemed like the kind of thing Lymies want to know about.
I've been taking artemisinin supplements for a year, but I never took more than 300mg (3 pills) per day, because the herb is expensive. It always did help, but I never realized how much until this week.
A week ago, there was a transit strike where I live, and artemisinin shipments into town were a pretty low priority. So I ran out for the first time in a year, and had to wait a week before a new shipment could come through.
I was expecting a babesia flare-up, sure. But nothing like what actually happened. In less than a week, I was disabled again, with a fever, insomnia, sweating, heavy-duty anxiety, exhaustion, blah blah blah. It wasn't a relapse, it was a meltdown. What do you know, a lot of old Lyme symptoms were really babesia/malaria after all.
So when the artemisinin finally came in, the reaction was, "GIMMEEE!" and I took 15 pills in one day, which is closer to the dose you'd get in Riamet. Wow, what a difference. It's only been 36 hours, and my symptoms have reduced by two-thirds. Last night, I kept waking up, but then could go right back to sleep, and slept for eight hours.
So maybe try this: when you get the artemisinin (Vitamin Shoppe, www.vitacost.com, special order from Whole Foods, etc., you don't need a prescription or doctor's permission) try a higher dose for a day or two. You should really see a change--if not immediate improvement, then a herx. The high artemisinin dose isn't safe to take longterm, but at least you'll get an answer as to whether this is your problem.
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