trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
So the big question is........drum roll......
Did I get Bart from the cats or from a tick?
This we may never know, I realise.
Next question becomes:
how is bart spread?
should I be avoiding the cats at all costs? My LLMD said he thought having cats was a very bad idea with Lyme. I have a high bart titre.
How can I avoid getting reinfected with bart if I live with two cats? thanks folks, Trails
Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
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Andie333
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7370
posted
trails,
I don't honestly know how the bart bacteria is spread; I was just under the assumption that tick or other vectors can carry several different tick-borne diseases. In this area, bart is one of the more common ones.
If having cats is a bad idea, I'll have to just deal with that. There's no way the cat's going!
How is the treatment progressing?
Andie
Posts: 2549 | From never never land | Registered: May 2005
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lymemomtooo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5396
posted
Trails, I am no expert about this but we have cats..I have been told that the cat scratch fever is not the tick strain from Hell..
Our cats never go outside.
This said, I would not rule out a bart from Hell infection if the cats were outside and exposed to the tick from Hell..
I think I remember someone on here a year or so ago that attributed this to their cat.
But the one bad thing for us and good for critters is that many of the vets are up on this and there is a test that they can do in the office and then treat the animals..
Guess what is done for dogs..4-6 weeks of doxy..Wonder what the ID ducks say about that..The dogs get the meds and people are only supposed to get one pill or 2 weeks at the most..
I have a friend that just bypasses all Docs and now goes to the local feed mill and gets her drugs there. for her horses and herself..Not that I am a dr but she is doing ok..
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
Bart is spread by ticks, that we know. It is also spread by cats. I dont know exactly how except thru a scratch, and I was told the scratch does not have to be deep or even draw blood.
HIV sufferers are directed to NOT be around cats as bart infection could kill them. We dont know how bart and lyme co-mingle exactly, so we are the lab rats I guess.
I have never been a big cat lover, but these two littermates are my partner's best buds and they are our family.
PS--havent started bart treatment. Wont until mid july---still on ABX break from surgery/hormone crash.
Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
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trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
Bart henselae is the titre I have. My LLMD says that bart henselae is spread both by ticks and cats. It is the exact same bug. I know Doc B talks about Bart LIKE organisms, but my LLMD says lets focus on what we know. We KNOW I have bart henselae so lets treat it.
My cats go outside only in a large dog kennel and have never mixed with other cats or other animals. They get their shots on time and they get their nails trimmed.
Is there a test for bart for the cats?
Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
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kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797
posted
My daughter had bart only. We have a cat that we found on the street corner when it was a tiny thing. I know it had a bacterial infection because his eyes went from bright blue to green; then after antibiotics, they returned to blue. Wiiieeerrd.
Even though the cat recently tested negative for bart, our LLMD is convinced that 90% of cats AND dogs have it, but never show symptoms. Most of us have been exposed, but did not develop an infection from it.
He feels that because my daughter was hit with Mycolplasma pneumonia, epstein barre, and parvovirus, then endured a traumatic event, that her immune system crashed and the bart was allowed to flourish.
We'll never know if the cat was to blame, or the dogs, or the mosquitoes, or possible a tick bite (we used to take annual treks to Oklahoma).
At this point, why get rid of the cat? It's not like she is going to be reinfected while on antibiotics.
Yet...if I had HIV, I wouldn't have a cat just for the reason of having to clean the litter box exposes you to all kinds of germs. And most DEFINITELY NOT A BIRD!! Parasite haven!
We weren't going to get rid of the cat because of this infection...we've ALL been scratched by the cat at some point these past 10 years...not all of us are sick.
5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Hey trails
The only thing I know about cats and people who have lyme and or weakened immune systems is that they should always where a mask when changing the kitty litter. Avoid breathing used litter at all costs.
The cats urine mingled with the litter contains some serious germs. It can spread some nasty disease's when inhaled. I am so sorry I can't remember the name of it.
Anyway make sure to always wear a mask.
Sorry to get slightly off topic here. Just thought I would share this information
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
If I had Bartonella and cats, I would seriously consider getting rid of the cat. Have the cat tested by a vet and see if that helps you to make a decision.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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lymemomtooo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5396
posted
Trails, I think most vets can do an in office test for this and can give them the abx for it..NOt sure if that takes care of it or not..
I had our local vet do a program for the support group last year..He showed us the test kits and I think it does 3 tests..Lyme, bart and something else..
He also had flyers showing diseases in cats/dogs? and I remember that Bart messes up the cats mouth..Think it causes many red cysts inside the gums. He said the approx 1/4 of all cats and dogs that come in the door and are tested are positive for lyme and bart.
I know the dogs are easily cured, but can't remember exactly the cure rate for the cats.
And Bart is like so many of these diseases, it has many strains. The normal one for cats, is the less damaging cat scratch fever but if they have been exposed to others , then anything goes.
I am sure they can be treated and I suspect that the East Coast did your damage,not the cats but again I do not know for sure..But if your partner loves the cats then you have a difficult problem if you feel they are to blame..
Just try to see if she will agree to test them and treat if necessary.
And I do not know what the disease is called with the litter box either but know my husband got the duty each time I was pregnant since all ob/gyns warn you about it.
Good luck Trails..Hope you are better..Bart is Hell..Watch out for rages..
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
It's a cost/benefit analysis. My two cats have gotten me through this whole ordeal.
When my hands hurt so much that I couldn't even hold a fork, I would lay my hand into my cats' fur. For over a year, that was the only comforting feeling I had through my hands.
I could never get rid of my cats. They are my family.
As far as the litter illness, it's a parasite called Toxoplasmosis. Changing the kitty litter daily reduces chance of transmission. It is transmitted through the feces, as well as through raw or undercooked meat. And indoor cats are unlikely to get infected, unless they eat raw or undercooked meat.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
Hey Trails,
are we on that same river again. I havent tested positive for bart..but cipro seems to help me...but my cat used to bite and scratch me a lot. she did not like me to leave for work at all.
Also, she would bite my ankles as i walked to the bathroom.......she bit me a few weeks ago and i did feel sick afterwards.
she was a stray is inside now......one vet thought she was exposed to pestisides cause she twitches a lot in her back...it will just twitch like a spasm...or like something is biting her. its odd to watch.
im going to ask the vet about this next visit last visit her liver enzymes were high.
i think you get bart from cats from a scratch or a bite.
im not getting rid of my cat. im just going to be more careful.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
Thanks for all the input and advice and experiences here!
I already know about the kitty litter thing so that is NOT my duty---I think I changed it 3 times in 8 years.
These cats were born and raised in the desert and were never outdoor cats. So I think you are right lymemomtoo, the dang east coast ticks prolly gave me bart.
Cant---you are here in this fog too?? where where? you gotta paddle? coz I lost mine in the creek. Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
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trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
CAT SCRATCH DISEASE AND BACILLARY ANIOMATOSIS What is Cat Scratch Disease? Cat Scratch Disease (CSD) is a bacterial infection which usually causes fever, fatigue, and swollen lymph nodes. CSD is not the same as a cat scratch. Most cat scratches do not develop into CSD or Bacillary Angiomatosis.
What is Bacillary Angiomatosis? Bacillary Angiomatosis (BA) is a rare condition which usually occurs in people with HIV/AIDS. Patients with BA may have skin lesions which sometimes resemble Kaposi's Sarcoma. BA can also affect internal organs such as the liver or spleen.
What is Bartonella? Both CSD and BA appear to be caused by the same bacteria, Bartonella henselae.
How is my cat affected by this organism? Cats that carry the agent are generally not ill and show no signs of infection. Recent research shows that cats acquire the Bartonella organism from fleas.
How is this organism transmitted to people? Cats may transmit Bartonella to people by scratches or possibly bites. Fleas may also be involved with transmission to people. Cats less than one year of age are more likely to be associated with transmission of CSD or BA than are adult cats.
Should I have my cat tested? Although tests are available to determine if your cat has been exposed to Bartonella, testing is usually not necessary and interpretation of test results can be controversial.
Is it treatable in people? It is extremely important for any individual who thinks he or she may have BA to see a physician. The condition is very treatable (and curable).
CSD in people with healthy immune systems is usually benign. If you are concerned about CSD, consult your physician.
How do I prevent myself from getting this disease? 1. Wash your hands after handling a cat. 2. Discourage your cat from scratching or biting you. 3. Rough play should be avoided. 4. Keep your cat's nails trimmed short. If your cat tends to scratch frequently, talk to your veterinarian about behavior modification or nail caps for cats to help minimize scratches. 5. Wash all bites or scratches immediately with soap and water. 6. Cats should not be allowed to lick open wounds on your body. 7. Minimize contact with kittens. 8. Use good flea control on your pet and in your home. Contact your veterinarian or groomer for more details.
If you are scratched or bitten by a cat and develop a wound that will not heal, a fever, unusual skin lesions or are otherwise ill from unknown causes, you should let your physician know that you were scratched or bitten.
Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
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BostonLyme2005
Unregistered
posted
Hi,
I have had cats and dogs all my life and NEVER have been anywhere near as ill as I have been for the past few years, after having ticks and other germ carrying monsters all over me, in my clothes, car, etc!!!
I was NEVER ill in my life as I am now! But...There is light at the end of the tunnel, and I can see it!!
posted
I got bit by a cat couple of years ago-knuckle of my middle finger. Nasty infection tested out as Pasturella (sp) antibiotics, daily visits to drain infection,etc.
Finger swelled up so much , that one day when I ran into the post office to mail a letter, my hand got stuck in the mail slot ! Nobody else was in the lobby at the time so all I could do was stand there looking stupid-and I guess nobody was monitoring the surveillance camera.
Finally another postal worker came in. She told me to wiggle my fingers so somebody in the back would notice . They did and let out a scream, but soon recovered enough to help me manipulate my fingers back out.
Now I always drop my letters in the big chute out front.
lymemomtooo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5396
posted
Trails, I am trying very hard to not mess up your post with some of the junk I would love to throw at Carol..This is almost too good to have to pass on...
Honest I am trying very hard to be good..Please forgive me if I mess up..I really owe her.
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
oh you girls! too much I tell ya! Go ahead and have fun on the thread--there is too much seriousness in our lives as it is.
I'll help you out by posting my t-shirt slogan idea that has NOTHING to do with bart or cats. Just pure fun that popped into my head one day.
when we're done having fun, then we can get back to bart. Let's think of it as the opposite of a bart rage.
lymemomtooo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5396
posted
Trails, it has some possibilities. NOT my choice,a couple of relatives have wasted their lives with it, but would think it would be a good seller and attention grabber..
HOw about designing me one for the cat lover with lyme that rams her hand into mail slots..Got any ideas? Ha!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Carol B
Unregistered
posted
Hey LMT we really are chasing each other around the board tonight-I feel like velcro. Shows how much of a life we have-huh?
Trails- I LOVE the lyme t-shirt cartoon.That's why I am not going out to fireworks tonight. There's probably
I think I'll get my picture of Godzilla Tick (aka LMT) printed up on t-shirts and sell them on e-bay. That ought to put the fear of lyme disease in a few people !
Now what was the topic of this thread about- I forgot? Carol
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trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
Yeah, not advocating pot smoking, but thought it was catchy.And I think it is true too, much less damage done with pot than with picnicing.
The thread is about
and
BARTONELLA.
not that the spider is bart, just the closest thing I could find to a tick. Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
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lymemomtooo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5396
posted
Carol, I am confused..What does this mean?
"Trails- I LOVE the lyme t-shirt cartoon.That's why I am not going out to fireworks tonight. There's probably"
probably what?? Ticks in Bal'more, or pot..Of course there is no lyme disease..Just ask them at Hopkins.
Have you been inhaling some of the neighborhood vapors? Ha..
Oh sorry T...Cats and bart..Do you think the cats downtown have bart? Carol will you check?
T-print some of the shirts and do a test market..
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
My favorite from Trails' info
"6. Cats should not be allowed to lick open wounds on your body."
I guess I need to go buy some hydrogen pyroxide because I've just been calling a cat over every time I cut myself.
If somebody is letter their cat lick open wounds, then I think they have more than bart to worry about.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I will give up my cats when you pry their claws off of my stiff sore body.
(I just got another kitten. The cat habit is hard to break)
Posts: 353 | From Florida boonies | Registered: Nov 2005
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lymemomtooo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5396
posted
Trails, you have a pretty good tick on your shirt design..Maybe you can make it into a graemlin for us..lmt
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
lmt--my mouse was broken the day I drew the design--but the effect is too cool.
we looked at all the risk factors for bart and our cats and they have NONE except for being cats. Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
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lymemomtooo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5396
posted
Good news..A reprieve..
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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JRWagner
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3229
posted
Good grief...
Bart can be tested (the best Bart Lab is in New Jersey) through a blood draw by your Vet.
Indoor cats: Should be tested as they can get the disease through their mother.
However, the cat, once clear, and staying indoors, will not be exposed to fleas, ticks, etc. that would be a part of an outdoor cat's life.
If the cat has Bart, a simple cure would be ABX prescribed by the vet.
I went through this with my cat (only the testing parts) even though I live in NYC and bought the cats from a breeder...just to be sure.
The cat's urine is not the problem, as mentioned.
The nails of a cat are licked when the cat cleans itself, and Bart can be spread through contacting the cat's fur or saliva,if one has an open wound.
Who would ever let ANY animal lick their wounds?
This is from an old wife's tale that dog saliva kills bacteria.
BUNK!!
Dog's saliva does not have special antibacterial properties and, in fact, all a dog does when he or she licks themself is to "clean" an area, not disinfect the same.
NEVER let any animal lick your lips, or an open wound.
Wash your children's hands after going to a petting zoo.
Check your outdoor dog or cat to make sure they have not transported ticks into the house.
Those Frontline, etc. collars do not work instantly, and a tick can attach to a dog's or cat's fur in a split second.
Then...bingo, presto, ticks on your couch, bed, etc.
I would have my yard sprayed twice a year, and I would STILL check the animals for ticks or fleas!
Use common sense here...this is not rocket science!
Peace, Love and Wellness, JRW
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