Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Iodine (if not on Armour Thyroid) plus tyrosine = T3 and T4. The thyroid hormones.
Iodine is cheap. Put a silver-dollar size amt. (careful it stains!) on your skin anywhere...well...almost anywhere ;-)...after a bath/shower. Let it dry (it dries quickly). If deficient in iodine, it absorbs fast.
Prob. the safest way to go...amino acid + mineral.
Don't depend on salted snacks as an iodine source; many, including pretzels and chips, are not made with iodized salt. And check the label to be sure that any sea salt you buy is iodized; many brands are not and thus are not an adequate source of iodine.
To see if Borrelia burgdorferi truly breaks down the blood brain barrier, several animal experiments were done. Since blood albumin protein should not be in the cerebral spinal fluid (CSF) researchers tagged normal albumin with *radioactive Iodine*.
In mice, hamsters, and dogs without infection the radioactive Iodine never penetrated into the CSF of the normal control animals.
But when the animals were infected with Lyme disease, within mere hours the blood brain barrier became permeable and radioactive iodine was found within the CSF of infected animals usually for about two weeks following initial infection.
And...
Tick Removal. Prompt removal of ticks is another recommended procedure to decrease the likelihood of transmission of B. burgdorferi. Imbedded ticks should be removed with tweezers by grasping the tick at skin level and giving a firm, steady pull until it comes away. Curved, pointed tweezers are best.
If tweezers are not available and you need to use your fingers, place a protective covering between your fingers and the tick, remove the tick, and then, wash your hands afterwards. Try not to squash the tick.
Disinfect the site of the tick bite with rubbing alcohol or *povidone iodine*...
Putative Association Between Anti-Borrelia IgG and Autoimmune Thyroid Disease? Nov 2005
It seems unlikely that Borrelia species represent a relevant causal factor for AITD. (autoimmune thyroid disease)
Or...???
Iodine Deficiency
"Of all the elements known so far to be essential for health, iodine is the most misunderstood and the most feared. Yet, it is by far the safest of all the trace elements known to be essential for human health. It is the only trace element that can be ingested safely in amounts up to 100,000 times the RDA. "
Thyroid. 2006 Mar;16(3):225-36.
Human thyroid autoantigens and proteins of Yersinia and Borrelia share amino acid sequence homology that includes binding motifs to HLA-DR molecules and T-cell receptor.
Benvenga S, Santarpia L, Trimarchi F, Guarneri F.
Sezione di Endocrinologia del Dipartimento Clinico Sperimentale di Medicina e Farmacologia, Universita di Messina, Messina, Italy. [email protected]
We previously reported that the spirochete Borrelia burgdorferi could trigger autoimmune thyroid diseases (AITD).
In conclusion, our in silico data do NOT directly demonstrate that Borrelia and Yersinia proteins trigger AITD
but suggest that a restricted number of them might have the potential to, at least in persons with certain HLA-DR alleles.
PMID: 16571084
The element most critical in the Lyme patient however is iodine. A 2 inch square of Lugol's iodine is painted on the patients skin and
should remain visible for 24 hours.
The sooner it is absorbed the more deficient the patient.
An oral form of Lugol's is available under the name Iodoral (Optimox, Torrance, Ca). (This is from Dr. Klinghardt)
Glycogen accumulation measured by iodine staining
The Iodine test is used to identify glycogen and starch. These polysaccharides combine with iodine to form a blue-black color.
A. Khan, ``Theoretical studies of the complexes of iodine with methanol, ethanol, and acetone'', J. Chem. Phys. 96, 1194 (1992).
Both ferric chloride and iodine serve as mordants, but they also have an oxidizing function that assists in converting hematoxylin to hematein.
The mechanism of dye binding is probably by formation of hydrogen bonds, but the exact chemical groups reacting with the hematoxylin have not been identified. This method requires that the sections be overstained and then differentiated, so it is regressive.
Differentiation is accomplished by using excess mordant, or ferric chloride, to break the tissue-mordant-dye complex. The dye will be attracted to the larger amount of mordant in the differentiating solution and will be removed from the tissue.
The elastic tissue has the strongest affinity for the iron-hematoxylin complex and will retain the dye longer than the other tissue elements. This allows other elements to be decolorized and the elastic fibers to remain stained. Sodium thiosulfate is used to remove excess iodine. Van Gieson's solution is the most commonly used counterstain, but others may be used.
A bacteriocidal virocidal sponge containing
iodine and a surfactant
which can be used as a *contraceptive* and as therapy for vaginitis. It consists of a polyurethane open cell foam impregnated with a surfactant and iodine. A bactericidal tampon containing an iodophor does NOT induce *toxic shock* syndrome.
I'm studying tyrosine...a lowly amino acid. It is looking good, but not without some "heads-up" risks for certain people or those on certain drugs.
I'm scrambling as fast as possible because it does indeed look that lyme causes a "tryptophan/tyrosine defect" which can be cured with a LOT of magnesium.
This "defect" looks to be an imbalance. Tyrosine is a "lowly" amino acid (protein buiding block). It has to "compete" with all the other amino acids and is last to go into the brain.
For certain, there are a LOT of imbalances going on in lyme disease.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Thanks marnie
I just e-mailed the folks at realsalt.com to see if their salt contains iodine.
Had no idea iodine was so important.I'll post when I hear from them
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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Just a word of caution regarding iodine. I took some orally on the recommendations of a naturpath for breast pain. This resulted in my developing a goiter and hyperthyroidism within 3 weeks. That was 7 years ago and I have to fight to control the hyperthyroidism every day now.
Absorbing iodine through the skin is probably safer than getting it from food. But as a consequence of my iodine intake I have "iodine induced hyperthyroidism" - not fun by any stretch of the imagination especially when I have it on top of hypothyroid symptoms.
Taking any single mineral is not a good idea unless you are in the care of a knowledgable physician. That goes for everyone of them: zinc, selenium, iodine, etc. etc.
The same danger exists for taking single amino acids unless you have been advised to do so by a knowledgable physician.
Our body is a finely tuned mechanism whose balance is easily upset by improper supplementation.
Don't do it. It is better to stick with foods and to vary the foods widely. Don't eat the same four-five foods over and over and over again as many of us are in the habit of doing.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
It is a BALANCE!
Too much iodine, too little tyrosine = problems.
Too little iodine, too much tyrosine = problems. (Cancer related...tyrosine is an amino ACID.)
Too little iodine, too little tyrosine = problems.
Iodine + tyrosine...a trace "nonessential" amino acid that has to "fight" for entrance into the cells.
We have a tryptophan/tyrosine "defect" in lyme. This "defect" can be cured by high levels of Mg. I've linked that (Reiki research). It has to do with INactivating HMG CoA reductase...stopping cholesterol (VLDL...very low density lipoprotein) release from the liver.
These amino acids are out of balance.
Tyrosine levels can be measured, but should be done before and after a meal.
As an iodine "test" ...put a silver dollar size amt. on your skin after a bath. If it disappears fast (before 24 hours), you are low.
Now...many of you might want to stop reading here, but if you want to know why there is a tryptophan/tyrosine imbalance...continue reading.
Bb is causing us to make acetylcholine (the body neurotransmitter counter - balance is norepinephrine).
Bb can't break down acetylcholine, but we can.
So Bb forces us to make it, break it down = choline is now "available", make it, break it down...
This causes a huge impact on the other neurotransmitters...esp. norepinephrine.
All the neurotransmitters need: (1) tryptophan (there's the serotonin-> melatonin link) and tiny "nonessential" (2)tyrosine. EXCEPT acetylcholine. Acetylcholine does NOT need tryptophan and tyrosine.
Now we have a tryptophan/tyrosine problem due to a huge need for them. Tryptophan is the "bully" and shoves tyrosine down. Amino acid imbalance.
That (tyrosine) impacts the thyroid which needs iodine and tyrosine to make T3 and T4.
With a drop in Mg...Calcium rises...this is not "thryoid friendly" either. So now we gain weight...metabolism slows down.
We need the liver healthy for its HUGE stores of Mg. There are 2000 mitochondria (powerhouses) per cell in liver cells. The most of any cell. This is where Mg-ATP is stored. The liver also stores some B6, but most is made by lactobacillus.
The liver (and pancreas and brain) is damaged by the ethanol which results from Bb fermenting sugar + the loss of phosphorus (Bb needs to make its own ATP...which is phosphorus) + the loss of choline.
Phosphorus and choline = lecithin. Fat emulsifier. Without those = "fatty" liver. Very inefficient. Bile becomes thick.
Our most important "detox" organ is far too stressed to help out.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Gi Gi:
"The element most critical in the Lyme patient however is iodine. A 2 inch square of Lugol's iodine is painted on the patients skin and
should remain visible for 24 hours.
The sooner it is absorbed the more deficient the patient.
An oral form of Lugol's is available under the name Iodoral (Optimox, Torrance, Ca)."
(This is from Dr. Klinghardt!)
As stated above.
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Thanks Marnie, I missed the first post.
Marnie wrote: I'm scrambling as fast as possible because it does indeed look that lyme causes a "tryptophan/tyrosine defect" which can be cured with a LOT of magnesium.
I have disordered tryptophan according to the metametrix ION test. I suspect that it is not uncommon in lyme patients. I also have the high kynurenate measurements along with high indican.
Fourteen patients with Borrelia burgdorferi infection were investigated for possible abnormalities of tryptophan and neopterin metabolism. Four patients (2 were investigated before therapy, 2 when therapy had been already started) had acute Lyme neuroborreliosis, and 10 patients were investigated months to years after an acute infection. Increased concentrations of neopterin and of the tryptophan-degradation product, L-kynurenine, were detected in the cerebrospinal fluid of patients with acute Lyme neuroborreliosis; one patient presented with subnormal tryptophan. Similar but less marked changes were seen in the treated patients and in some of the patients with Lyme encephalopathy. No such abnormalities were seen in the serum of the patients. The data indicate a role of the immune system and particularly of endogenously formed cytokines, like interferon-gamma and tumour necrosis factor-alpha, effecting tryptophan and neopterin metabolism in patients with acute Lyme neuroborreliosis.
PMID: 7865624 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Pain, sleep depression are all part of the picture in disordered tryptophan metabolism. How much magnesium would one need to take in order to repair this problem and why would it work? I already take around 1,000 mg a day and have for several years.
Yes, GIGI is correct. One must be very careful to balance minerals and amino acids. I use muscle testing and found via muscle testing that if I take tryptophan there are several others that I must take as well including tryosine. It probably depends on each individual as to what they need to be balanced.
I'm still doing research but I do think that I have less overall pain (still lots of pain though) and less depression on the tryptophan.
If you get the ION test and you do have disordered tryptophan, they make recommendations on a custom mix of amino acids to remedy the problem. YOu need to find a doctor who knows what they are doing. I haven't found one who understands the tryptophan problem yet. Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Tryptophan is the amino acid in turkey that makes us feel sleepy at Thanksgiving.
Tryptophan + Mg + B vitamins = 5HTP which converts directly to serotonin. 5HTP = serotonin.
Serotonin + 2 enzymes (ONE is N acetyltransferase! Bb has C-acetyltransferase)-> melatonin.
Melatonin to fall asleep. NREM sleep. Release bicarbonates. More alkaline.
Then...
Acetylcholine for REM sleep (which is when we make proteins). Now more acidic.
Back and forth all night...melatonin, acetylcholine, melatonin, acetylcholine.
Now...melatonin contains an "indole" with nitrogen sorta sticking out if you look at its stucture. It is thought this is the "antioxidant" reason for melatonin.
Nitrogen pushes oxygen OUT.
Melatonin triggers bicarbonate release...this makes us less acidic.
Then when too alkaline...up goes the need for acids...
This is our pH balance which is very closely regulated by the kidneys.
Generally speaking...it takes the kidneys about 2 hours to completely rebalance. This is the time-frame for many nutrients. That is how long the B vitamins, vitamin C, etc. stay in our system. Some nutrients we store, others we make. We save what we need, get rid of what we don't.
The kidney cells can be damaged if the system is too acidic ("toxic'). Those are vulnerable to damage as are all the cells.
We are supposed to be slightly alkaline.
For example: our NK cells (very simplified) "squirt" precancerous cells with an acid but they do it so in an alkaline environment...so it works.
When we exercise and make a lot of lactic acid and the NK cell levels drop...they aren't "needed" because the entire system is acidic...temporarily.
Cancer ONLY happens in an acidic condition. Acids damage unhealthy cells, but healthy cells too.
We have to get more alkaline...raise the pH...and hold it there...where it is supposed to be... in order to heal and to stay healthy.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
quote:
Gi Gi:
"The element most critical in the Lyme patient however is iodine. A 2 inch square of Lugol's iodine is painted on the patients skin and
should remain visible for 24 hours.
The sooner it is absorbed the more deficient the patient.
An oral form of Lugol's is available under the name Iodoral (Optimox, Torrance, Ca)."
(This is from Dr. Klinghardt!)
As stated above.
quote:
Marnie, Dr. Klinghardt's comments, as above, are directed at medical professionals, not lay people. He is a teacher and lecturer (worldwide), besides a practicing M.D., PhD.
Further, his patients before taking certain substances or pharma drugs under his direction in practice are tested in a variety of ways, with ART, lab work, physical exam, personal judgement, etc. Supplementation is hardly ever for long periods of time, because usually on re-testing at even short intervals, the requirement or compatibility for the substance or drug is not present any longer.
As far as single amino acid supplemention when you have any disease or malfunction, what I said in my previous post stands. Don't do it unless you have a doctor who understands the binary nature of the neurotransmitters. Their functions are similar and similar symptoms may be present when either is deficient.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Moved up a couple of previous threads I had posted on iodine. Includes address for test kit if anyone feels the need to test before supplementing.
Hubby switched docs and I keep forgetting to order the Iodoral from the internet. Think I will give it a try again.
With hubby the Iodoral seemed to switch his immune response from Th1 to Th2 or maybe it was the other way around? Anyway, when he got to the therapeutic dose after about 2 or 3 months he had the runny nose -- the day before this happened he had a zero Ativan day -- he only has a couple of those a year (instead of the normal 4 or 5 mg Ativan days) so this is significant. One other time this happened recently was when he started getting a head cold. The problem is I can't figure out how to repeat those good days!
As for the tyrosine -- hubby took 500 mg daily in the morning on an empty stomach for many months. It helped some with energy I think, but after a few months it aggravated his stomach and he had to stop.
He has not taken the 2 supplements at the same time. We retested neurotransmitter levels recently and as usual several things are below normal -- haven't decided what to do about it as he most likely has gastritis right now.
Tried some glutamine powder as an experiment and had the expected really really bad exacerbation of neuro symptoms -- don't think he could tolerate any oral amino acid supplements right now. Has even had to stop 5HTP at bedtime. May need to try IV amino acids again.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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If you have the Healing Lyme book, read up on quinolinic acid. Resveratrol is the missing ingredient you need to be taking to block the conversion of trytophan to quinolinic acid -- the kynurenate is a breakdown product from this alternative conversion pathway. In the presence of brain inflammation the body converts trytophan to quinolinic acid and kynurenate instead of to serotonin.
Try taking the resveratrol (Japanese knotweed source best) at bedtime with the 5HTP or l-trytophan.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
Gi Gi, you said, ``Marnie, Dr. Klinghardt's comments, as above, are directed at medical professionals, not lay people. He is a teacher and lecturer (worldwide), besides a practicing M.D., PhD.''
I do not see anywhere in the above links where Dr. Klinghardt is directing this information on lyme to medical professionals only. If it is on the internet, it is available to all.
I believe medical information should be available to doctors AND lay persons. People who are ill NEED to learn all they can about their disease. After all, it is ultimately their life, their decision, their choice based on knowledge from multiple sources.
You also said, ``As far as single amino acid supplemention when you have any disease or malfunction, what I said in my previous post stands.''
But your previous post is about supplementing the minerals (individually), NOT the amino acids.
What I DID say about tyrosine was:
``I'm studying tyrosine...a lowly amino acid. It is looking good, but not without some "heads-up" risks for certain people or those on certain drugs.''
It does indeed look like there is a tryptophan/tyrosine ``defect'' and the amt. of tyrosine available, to combine with the mineral, iodine to make the thyroid hormones AND to make tyrosine hydroxylase (the rate limiting enzyme in the synthesis of dopamine and norepinephrine) maybe indeed impacted in lyme disease.
Dr. Klinghardt apparently believes it is safe to put a small amt. of iodine on the skin and if it is gone within 24 hours, one might be deficient.
I think that's a fair and safe ``trial'' and should then likely be explored further.
But I do NOT believe the use of another mineral, Ag (silver) - a heavy metal - ORALLY will prove to be the Cure we all hope for. Gold shots for arthritis didn't work.
It appears silver MIGHT lower cholesterol which is HOW it maybe helpful, but...once again...Mg does the same by Inactivating HMG CoA reductase AND it helps in many, many, many other aspects as well.
Some other pathogens use silver:
Some silver resistant bacteria accumulate silver instead of exporting silver. When grown in the presence of silver ions, Pseudomonas stutzerii deposited silver in regularly shaped nanometer-scale crystalline particles in the periplasmic space (Klaus et al, 1999).
The Turkish Journal of Pediatrics 2004; 46: 177-178 Case
Community-acquired pneumonia and empyema caused by Pseudomonas stutzeri
Re: tryptophan and serotonin...
"L-tryptophan is the main precursor to serotonin, so if you take tryptophan, along with B6, B12, C, calcium, magnesium, and zinc necessary for it to metabolize first into 5HTP and then into serotonin."
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Marnie,
This is what I said in my first post:
Taking any single mineral is not a good idea unless you are in the care of a knowledgable physician. That goes for everyone of them: zinc, selenium, iodine, etc. etc.
The same danger exists for taking single amino acids unless you have been advised to do so by a knowledgable physician.
Our body is a finely tuned mechanism whose balance is easily upset by improper supplementation.
Don't do it. It is better to stick with foods and to vary the foods widely. Don't eat the same four-five foods over and over and over again as many of us are in the habit of doing.
Marnie, kindly note the words "single" in my first post as repeated here.
There is a lot of good info on the internet and a lot of bad stuff. Nothing is sacred any longer. The speech by Dr. K. (upon invitation by the Lyme people at the Orthomolecular Institute in San Francisco, that included Dr. S., Dr. J., etc., ) containing the iodine note was to a large group of LLMD's and other MD's and practitioners. There are always some interested lay people in the audience. By now the speach has been reprinted over and over on a hundred links. If people are willing to experiment with their sick body, so be it.
I just like to put out what I know to be true.
Many a person has hijacked mercury from somewhere in their body into the brain by taking selenium or other sybstances they read about somewhere without any other precautions! Ever wonder why people never get rid of their seizures, their brain fogs, and can't find their way back out of that misery. It is very easy to move some substances one way, and extremely difficult to move them back out. It takes all the tricks of the trade - I lived through it myself.
You forget that you are not only talking lyme disease with 99% of the people. If it were Lyme only, we would not have the problems. It takes multiple causes for this disease to become serious and what may work for one person, does not work for others because they bring a totally different condition to the table. We are not made with a cooky cutter.
It is dangerous to play with single amino acids. It is dangerous to play with hormones. Unless you know what you are doing.
Marnie, I appreciate your desire to search and problem-solve. I would not, however, take a chance doing what you suggest doing most the time. I would not dream of it. I will read and I will search, but before stepping out on a limb with certain substances, I talk to my doctor.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
A past post of YOURS Gi Gi:
"By the way, if you don't go quite the 12 gram of Salt & C, do less. For some, the high amounts are difficult to tolerate, and it depends a lot on how "contaminated" a body is.
So start slow and move up gradually to where you can handle it and still be able to make it through the day without hitting the ceiling."
So it is okay if YOU, Gi Gi, suggest single nutrients in VERY high amts or advise others to check out using silver - a heavy metal... OTC?
Kinda like calling the kettle black?
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
Marnie, Something you said stuck in my mind.
=========== Phosphorus and choline = lecithin. Fat emulsifier. Without those = "fatty" liver. Very inefficient. Bile becomes thick.
============
Now, I wonder how many people with gall bladder problems, which usually involve sludgey bile and stones that block the bile duct, actually have a problem with the Lyme bacteria.
Overweight middle aged women are known to be prime sufferers of gall stones.
Hah, what if they are overweight because of the metabolism problems initiated by Lyme.
And what if they are forming gall stones because of the concentrated bile, due to the process that you described.
It has been discussed before that a very high percentage of the population shows antibodies to Lyme bacteria.
The more I read, the more I'm beginning to think that many of our chronic illnesses and the illnesses of "old age" are due to tick borne infections.
I know that some scientific researchers already suspect this. Gene expression has something to do with how a person's body reacts to the infection.
Also: Good size doses of Resveratrol (4 to 6 tablets per day) cleared the cobwebs from my mind, and I could think properly again.
Bea described the process of why that would happen.
But....I experienced alot of kidney pain, and stopped taking it.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Carol
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Dear Marnie,
I have been posting here for six plus years. Everybody that has followed my posting knows by now that I do not pick this information up on the internet from strange unknown sources, and even if I do not mention my source every single time, most people are smart enough to eventually figure out that the info comes from the practice of my medical doctor as well as other collaborating practitioners who practice a similar form of medicine, allopathic combined with all alternatives that work and bring results.
All the information contained in my posts stems from the same source, my doctor's practice. They all have been put into practice many times. I do not make it up. I often quote Dr. K. word for word in order not to mislead. I have on occasion posted links from sites that totally represent Dr. K's ideas.
I post as often as possible everything identifying the source, but I am getting tired of saying "my doc does this, this is what works at times for some, this is what has proven to bring results".
Dear Marnie, I will quit posting when I am ready. And I will not object to anything you say unless I know with 100% certainly that what you are suggesting is not in the best interest of people who are already ill. Single mineral intake and single amino acid supplementation falls into that category.
And now - I think I have better things to do.
So take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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The name of the game is moderation. Almost any nutritional supplement can be taken safely singly -- vitamins, minerals, amino acids or herbs. One or two pills is very unlikely to hurt anyone.
I would bet that most Lymies are already taking a multivitamin/multimineral -- if not they need to be. Adding a single nutritional supplement to that should not be a problem.
Most people on this site have sense enough to start slow on any new supplement and see what happens. And very few people are going to waste their money on something that does not seem to help with relief from at least one or two symptoms.
Also, most people here have been to enough duck doctors that they will question the source regardless of whether it is Dr B or anyone else.
Hubby has a saying that goes something like this, "What do the insurance companies, social security, doctors etc want from me -- medical records signed by God?" Without such proof hubby is also going to question any test results, supplement suggestions etc. I don't think he is alone in this attitude. In his mind 10 patients personal experiences (anecdotal evidence) would probably outweigh 100 or even 1000 doctors, journal articles or researchers.
Enough said.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Regarding iodine/iodoral supplementation. Modiflan is a natural product that supplys iodine. It has been discussed on other boards and is something I plan to purchase.
Sadie
Posts: 115 | From new york | Registered: May 2006
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Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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lymemomtooo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5396
posted
WE all need to work together to solve this and two of you need to especially work together. I think you will solve this before the drs.
Please play nice..I worship both of you. Please be gentle. Time wasted in skunk matches takes time away from the necessary end result for all of humanity. I have a child that needs to be saved and to have a normal life. I need you to cooperate with each other.
I for one am very proud to see Marnie reading things from Dr. K. Keep it up. lymemomtooo
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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