posted
May just want to go to the link and read all of it. I'm on both MSP and invision 100. (silver ion producing molecule). That with proper diet/supplements and I'm making progress on a biofilm infection. (far more difficult than borrelia). good luck all.
The Lyme disease spirochete (Borrelia burgdorferi) is eliminated using MSP therapy. I have records of Lyme patients who have been taking various antibiotics for three or more years who have become asymptomatic on MSP therapy after just three or four weeks of treatment. The average duration to rid the body of the spirochete is three to nine months. Systemic Candida Albicans frequently occurs in patients with Lyme; complicating the treatment and prolonging the duration of treatment.
Lyme disease is far more prevalent than is generally known. Lyme has been reported in the U.S. in 43 states, and in all of Canada. I believe that reported cases of Lyme represent only about 20% of the actual number of Lyme cases. Lyme is routinely misdiagnosed as meningitis or as a "heat rash." A red rash is a typical symptom of Lyme. Mild Silver Protein solutions* are proving to be 100% effective in getting rid of the Lyme spirochete when they are included in the treatment protocol.
The important thing about MSP therapy is that it is non-toxic. I have never observed any side effect from using MSP therapy, and I have used it in patients with all kinds of infections. In acute conditions as much as four tablespoons per day has been given, with no adverse reactions observed or reported.
posted
I do think colloidal silver can be beneficial for Lyme disease, but any treatment that claims to be 100% effective for any type of virus or bacteria (not just Lyme) is making unrealistic claims in my opinion.
Hubby is doing IV colloidal silver (Argentyn 23)-- he started with oral and switched to IV once he got his dose up. He is far from being cured and he has been on the product for over 6 months now.
IV doses are much much higher than 4 tablespoons -- recently increased IV's from twice per week to 3 times per week. Hubby continues to herx with each dose although herxes from the IV are less severe than herxes from oral -- can't explain that at all.
This is just my opinion and not medical advice.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by seibertneurolyme: but any treatment that claims to be 100% effective for any type of virus or bacteria (not just Lyme) is making unrealistic claims in my opinion.
Bea Seibert
Given the right concentration and quality silver borrelia as all pathogens have shown no resistance. As far as 100% he may only treated a couple of patients and cured both so...
My take is that killing borrelia is fairly easy in the blood and organs (which is why everyone should start very slowly). Killing the lyme in bones, scar tissue and other areas that are poor in blood circulation and which Bb love to hide is another issue. It just takes one to hide and survive.
Posts: 731 | From Humble,TX | Registered: Feb 2005
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Let's see now...
IV garlic,peroxide,vitaminC, etc etc...gee anything BUT IV antibiotics by some of you will work...
Why not juice up a salad and throw that in our veins....
......BALDERDASH>>>>>>
D.E.B. wasting your time money and health...IMHO
and I'm not even from humble texas...zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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Mutations Conferring Aminoglycoside and Spectinomycin Resistance in Borrelia burgdorferi.
Criswell D, Tobiason VL, Lodmell JS, Samuels DS.
Division of Biological Sciences, The University of Montana, 32 Campus Dr., Missoula, MT 59812-4824. [email protected].
We have isolated and characterized in vitro mutants of the Lyme disease agent Borrelia burgdorferi that are resistant to spectinomycin, kanamycin, gentamicin, or streptomycin, antibiotics that target the small subunit of the ribosome. 16S rRNA mutations A1185G and C1186U, homologous to Escherichia coli nucleotides A1191 and C1192, conferred
>2,200-fold and 1,300-fold resistance to spectinomycin, respectively. A 16S rRNA A1402G mutation, homologous to E. coli A1408, conferred >90-fold resistance to kanamycin and >240-fold resistance to gentamicin. Two mutations were identified in the gene for ribosomal protein S12, at a site homologous to E. coli residue Lys-87, in mutants selected in streptomycin. Substitutions at codon 88, K88R and K88E, conferred 7-fold resistance and 10-fold resistance, respectively, to streptomycin on B. burgdorferi. The 16S rRNA A1185G and C1186U mutations, associated with spectinomycin resistance, appeared in a population of B. burgdorferi parental strain B31 at a high frequency of 6 x 10(-6). These spectinomycin-resistant mutants successfully competed with the wild-type strain during 100 generations of coculture in vitro. The aminoglycoside-resistant mutants appeared at a frequency of 3 x 10(-9) to 1 x10(-7) in a population and were unable to compete with wild-type strain B31 after 100 generations. This is the first description of mutations in the B. burgdorferi ribosome that confer resistance to antibiotics. These results have implications for the evolution of antibiotic resistance, because the 16S rRNA mutations conferring spectinomycin resistance have no significant fitness cost in vitro, and for the development of new selectable markers.
PMID: 16436695 [PubMed - in process]
Posts: 731 | From Humble,TX | Registered: Feb 2005
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
I may not be a biological scientist but does'nt this mean that they have only isolated resistant mutations to one family of antibiotics????
You go ahead and correct me if I'm wrong!
Is this the same Doc Johnson that sells Marital aids!??
By the by Brent...in your disertation you mention the same reasons this other guy dirk from africa and Gary from wherever for his treatment of retraining the mind to zap electrically ALL pathogens present and past...
I'm listening to the guitar music now and can tell ya...
I doubt if subliminal mass hypnosis will work on me as it does on others... Just never want to give up that control and toooo strong in the mental game to be conquered.
So if his "CURE" is actually hypnosis...placebo that it may be...I doubt it will work...
He even said on the phone today...first 10percent then 50percent and then said "you'll always have some symptoms, no matter what you do!"
So What the hell.....I think I'll stick with what makes some sense to me.....
And leave the alternatives to you and gigi and whoever wants to listen to them.
zman
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by lymie tony z: And leave the alternatives to you and gigi and whoever wants to listen to them. zman
No...you nastily bash alternatives with your opinion. Which is fine but your just spouting off with nothing to back up what you say. In this forum that kind of talk is dangerous.
by the by...know what a pharmablogger is???
[ 24. October 2006, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: brentb ]
Posts: 731 | From Humble,TX | Registered: Feb 2005
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
No...you nastily bash alternatives with your opinion. Which is fine but your just spouting off with nothing to back up what you say. In this forum that kind of talk is dangerous.
Aaaaamen!
Go by to sleep z-man.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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luvs2ride
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posted
Go BACK to sleep.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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I was skeptical as well when hubby started taking the colloidal silver. Yes, he has done the IV hydrogen peroxide and IV Vitamin C as well.
Anyway, it came down to a choice between the colloidal silver and IV Vancomycin. We could not afford the IV antibiotics at this point in treatment and decided we had nothing to lose.
The other point I want to make is that atibiotics do not cure viruses and many Lymies also have viruses as well as the Lyme and other tick-borne coinfections.
Hubby does have Borna virus besides the ususal HHV6, CMV and EBV. The Amantadine (anti-viral drug) hasn't worked on the Borna virus after 4 years. Docs have few if any suggestions and can't say if the Borna virus (same family as rabies) is a significant factor in illness or not. This is a brain virus frequently found in schizophrenics.
I have no idea if the colloidal silver is working on his viruses or Lyme or what. All I know is that it is doing something. Time will tell.
I don't have a problem with analyzing journal articles and finding the flaws as we all know most of them are biased.
I would just like to remind everyone not to reject an alternative treatment simply because it is alternative. As long as a person is aware of the risks involved and doesn't have unrealistic expectations about treatment (alternative or antibiotics) then the individual should have the right to make up their own mind.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Actually Jay...I think I can figure out what a pharmablogger is...
Possibly someone who uses the net to promote pharmaceuticals!?
Of which I assure you I am not!
How about an alternablogger...do you know what that is? Or perhaps just a troll would suffice...that's the folks that come on this website with supposedly "helpful" information just to muck up the thinking of the folks here....
who are already intellectually hampered by this disease. I have lived this alternative treatment lifestyle and tried many different alternatives in the eight years of fighting this disease...
I offer a concise opinion of some alternatives because that's what people come here for...experience and a shorthand approach to what and does not work.
Colloidal silver does not work...sorry seibert lyme you would have done better to listen to Dr B's protocol and gone for the vancomycin...IMHO
It would have been money well spent!
My heart goes out to anyone who is so desperate they'll try dang near anything to rid themselves of this disease. I debunk some treatment protocols in an honest effort to let desperate people know what has and has not worked for me.
In that I have been referred to by those that personally know me as the "poster boy" for lyme disease because of all the symptoms I have presented over time...
I believe I am supremely qualified at rendering my opinions... If you take it as bashing...that's your problem.
luvs...glad you can spell...at least 50 percent of the time...LOL
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by lymie tony z: I debunk some treatment protocols...
You've debunked nothing. Debunking is using logic to prove something one way or another. If you want to debunk something here's an article by a DOCTOR. Feel free to tell us where he is incorrect.
Ionic Silver - The Powerful Defense Against Viruses And Other Microbes
By: Herbert Slavin, M.D.
-- Posted 12 September, 2006
The following is an authorized pre-publication reprint of an article to appear shortly in
Health Freedom News, Vol. 24, No. 3 (Summer 2006), p 22+
Health Freedom News is a publication of The National Health Federation (www.thenhf.com)
By Herbert Slavin, M.D.
As the nation watches and waits to see if HN51, commonly called bird flu or avian flu, will become a threat to humans, and firms are scrambling to hopefully develop a cure before there's even anything to target or conduct tests with, it appears that a new form of ionic silver may already be providing us with a remarkably effective treatment for not only a bird flu pandemic that may or may not occur but also an enormous range of infectious diseases that are a very real part of our world today.
The fact is that the medical field has yet to prove itself able to deal effectively with virtually any virus, let alone a new one that does not even yet exist. Yet a rapidly growing phenomenon is taking place wherein ionic silver is emerging as the new antimicrobial wonder in dealing with bacterial as well as, yes, viral conditions too, both in medicine and in industry.
A Respected Antimicrobial and More
Ionic silver was actually a commonly-used antimicrobial 100 years ago, before the advent of modern antibiotics, which only address bacteria and are becoming largely obsolete while posing risks related to resistant super-germs. Ionic silver is increasingly being recognized for its broad-spectrum antimicrobial qualities and the fact that it presents virtually none of the side-effects related to antibiotics. Ionic silver is entirely non-toxic to the body. Research at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis has shown that some resistant strains of disease cannot develop with ionic silver the way that they will with antibiotics. Reports of any pathogens developing resistance to ionic silver are rare. Some reports indicate it even kills drug-resistant strains of germs.
Ionic silver is also a powerful tissue-healing agent, so much so that it has been used topically for decades in burn centers and currently represents one of the fastest growing sectors - if not the fastest growing sector - in wound care today.
The fact that ionic silver is effective against a very broad range of bacteria is well established and, due to recent advances in the delivery of ionic silver, together with the problems associated with antibiotics, it is being used in a rapidly growing range of dietary-supplement, medical, and industrial products. Illustrating how serious this trend is, in a report published in April 2006 by Chemical & Engineering News about a new method from Nexxion for applying ionic-silver coating to catheters, IV needles, and other medical devices, the chief technical officer of the company is quoted as saying, "To date, no pathogens have been able to survive contact with silver."1
And that product is just the tip of the iceberg.
AcryMed also recently announced FDA approval of its product SilvaGard, a silver-nanotechnology coating to protect medical devices from bacteria. The company stated, "Ionic silver has been long recognized and used as a highly effective antimicrobial."2
Covalon is a manufacturer that has introduced an antimicrobial silver-ion releasing, collagen-based sheet dressing for wound care. In January 2006, the president of the company is quoted as having said, "In the wound dressings market, silver dressings growth outperforms all others in the category."3
Curad and Johnson & Johnson bandages are now available to the consumer with ionic silver actually impregnated into the gauze so as to destroy bacteria.4 In the medical field, another company, AgION has stated that, "Today silver is a key ingredient in new high-tech, powder coated finishes that hospitals and doctors' offices are using to protect walls, counters and other germ-gathering surfaces."
Others are jumping on the bandwagon. Samsung recently introduced a clothes-washing machine that they claim kills 99% of bacteria in cold water by using ionic silver.5 Sharper Image has a line of slippers and pillows that have ionic silver incorporated into the fabric to prevent odor-causing bacteria. Containers for food storage are now being impregnated with ionic silver to prevent bacterial growth that contributes to spoilage. Writing pens, bath mats, cutting boards, and door knobs are being coated with ionic silver to prevent bacteria from being spread. Water-treatment facilities that service hospitals use silver ions. And that is still just the tip of the iceberg. The list goes on and on, and is growing faster every week.
Is It Also Antiviral?
It is noteworthy that the above quotes illustrate that ionic silver is often referred to as having "antimicrobial" qualities, rather than just "antibacterial" qualities.
This is a very important distinction because many diseases that affect human beings today - and bird flu if it should ever become a pandemic in the future - all involve "viral" pathogens, not bacteria. And the medical community truly has nothing that will reliably combat viral pathogens. While the push is on for a "vaccine," there is enormous controversy as to the efficacy and safety of existing vaccines, let alone one that has yet to be developed, if ever. Nothing that exists today in our efforts to fight common modern-day viral conditions suggests we should expect any miracles.
Using ionic silver as a preventative, a treatment, or both may very well prove to be, if not a miracle, perhaps a major stride in shifting the tide in our favor.
In Europe, ionic silver is recognized as an accepted treatment for viral conditions. Walk into a pharmacy in Europe and tell them you've been diagnosed with a cold or flu - which is viral in nature - and they will look in their desk reference and find a number of silver-ion compounds or complexes listed as remedies to sell you. It seems the United States is finally catching on. A study at the University of Arizona recently showed ionic silver to be effective against the coronavirus that researchers use as the surrogate for SARS.6 A study out of the University of Texas reportedly suggested ionic silver may be effective against HIV-1, and researchers expect it may be shown effective against other viruses and bacteria as well. "We're testing against other viruses and the 'super bug (Methicillin resistant staphylococcus aureus),' said Miguel Jose Yacaman, from University of Texas, Department of Engineering and one of the study's authors. "Our preliminary results indicate that silver nanoparticles can effectively attack other micro-organisms."7
It would make sense that this would be the case since the "antimicrobial" effect of ionic silver is recognized to be extremely broad-spectrum when applied to bacterial and fungal pathogens including mold and yeast. Indeed, it would also make sense that silver would be antiviral since it is clearly recognized to be highly effective against essentially every other class of pathogen. Phrases like "antimicrobial" and "no pathogens survive" are apparently intended to be quite broad in scope. And the mechanisms of action that make ionic silver effective as an antimicrobial are apparently unique enough to support it.
According to AgION, "Ancient Egyptians used it to keep food supplies safe from fungus and mold." A press release by Curad quoted Philip M. Tierno, Ph.D., Director of Clinical Microbiology and Immunology at New York University Medical Center and author of The Secret Life of Germs (Atria Books 2004), as stating, "Silver is a natural antibacterial that works by killing bacteria, fungi and yeast by interfering with the metabolism necessary for respiration of these microbes. It fights germs with much less fear of developing antibiotic resistance."8
A representative of AgION stated in a recent press release, "Silver has multiple mechanisms of action. Use of silver as an antimicrobial is therefore unlikely to promote antibiotic resistance."
The FDA has regulations that prohibit the manufacturer of any product from making "disease" claims unless the product has been approved for "drug" use (the definition of a drug is any product sold for treating a disease). Since virtually any presence of a viral pathogen in the human body will by definition be disease related, it is unlikely we would be seeing any product promoted as an antiviral until the tedious and extremely expensive process of FDA drug approval was completed - a seriously-flawed process that has seen deadly drugs like Vioxx approved while beneficial ones languish in limbo.
A search on the Internet, however, will turn up literally thousands of testimonials reporting viral conditions across a very broad range being successfully treated with ionic-silver products such as the outdated but still popular colloidal silver. It is very plausible, if not highly likely, that before long ionic silver will emerge as the recognized solution for the vast majority of viral conditions.
Delivery for Systemic Human Use
Back 100 years ago, major pharmaceutical firms made ionic silver products for systemic human use in the form of what is loosely referred to as "colloidal" silver, a very crude and archaic substance that did the job of delivering silver ions decently for its time. But after the advent of far more profitable antibiotics and the change of the laws in the 1930s when the FDA as we know it today was formed, silver fell out of favor.
In recent decades, colloidal silver has seen a resurgence in popularity, but primarily in the alternative- or natural-medicine field, or when sold as a dietary supplement. Meanwhile, important advances in the field of ionic-silver delivery, most notably with the Opti-Silver technology, are rapidly rendering colloidal silver obsolete. A new, patented technology, this special form of ionic silver apparently represents a major breakthrough in the delivery of ionic silver for systemic, or internal, human use.
In this regard, there are two pivotal questions to be considered: (1) whether silver ions kill viral pathogens; and (2) the method of delivery for systemic human use.
From my perspective, the question of whether ionic silver kills viral pathogens has been answered in the resounding affirmative. It seems that only the tedious process of FDA drug approval - or perhaps a major clinical study that is planned on Opti-Silver hitting the media - is needed before it becomes common knowledge.
Even if silver ions are effective against viral pathogens, the delivery mechanism for use in the human body becomes the key issue. All of the products on the market today that utilize ionic silver for its antimicrobial and tissue-healing qualities incorporate some kind of deliberate delivery mechanism in order to provide for a controlled release of silver ions at the rate that is desired. This delivery mechanism varies relative to the environment where the ionic silver is being used and relative to the rate of release that is desired. In each case, the medium is a factor; and, far more importantly, the complexing or compounding agent used to release the silver ion is a factor.
Our growing understanding of this area of controlled delivery has contributed greatly to the increase in the number of products using ionic silver for antimicrobial purposes. The New York Times stated in a December 2005 article, "Silver, one of humankind's first weapons against bacteria, is receiving new respect for its antiseptic powers, thanks to the growing ability of researchers to tinker with its molecular structure."9 What this refers to is the deliberate formation of molecular structures that will release silver ions in the given environment at the desired rate.
The same article goes on to say, "But silver's time-tested - if poorly understood - versatility as a disinfectant was overshadowed in the latter half of the 20th century by the rise of antibiotics. Now, with more and more bacteria developing resistance to antibiotic drugs, some researchers and healthcare entrepreneurs have returned to silver for another look. This time around, they are armed with nanotechnology, a fast-developing collection of products and skills that helps researchers deploy silver compounds in ways that maximize the availability of silver ions - the element's most potent form. Scientists also now have a better understanding of the weaknesses of their microbial adversaries."
This need for a delivery mechanism to maximize availability is all the more demanding when attempting delivery of ionic silver in the human body, due to the aggressive and fluctuating electrochemical environment the human organism presents. The common substances listed in the pharmacist's desk reference in Europe, for instance, may work marginally well but lack an efficient delivery mechanism and therefore fail to unlock the potential of what ionic silver might be capable of doing in the human body to kill germs.
The patented Opti-Silver technology, which its maker Invision International says is the result of years of research and development, is designed to optimize the delivery of silver ions in the human body. While the patent covers a broad range of substances, the company has chosen to use citrate as the complexing agent, and potassium as the counter-ion for maximum stability, in the water-based dietary-supplement formulation it currently sells under the brand name of Silver 100. The recommended usage is entirely safe - the maximum recommended daily amount introduces less silver to the body than may be contained in an individual's ordinary drinking-water intake, with the difference being that it is intended to be released as activated ions. It consists of all-natural nanotechnology.10
Treatment of Hepatitis B and C
I myself have had a patient come into my office at the Institute of Advanced Medicine who was diagnosed as having both hepatitis B and C. The blood work that came back from the lab showed the viral load and liver enzymes to be extremely elevated, indicating an advanced condition. The patient, not wanting to be subjected to the Interferon and Ribavirin treatment that was common because of the high risk of side effects and the low incidence of success, chose instead to be put on a 90-day regimen of using Silver 100, at an elevated dosing relative to normal suggested use. Silver 100 is a water-based dietary supplement made by Invision International that contains the Opti-Silver form of ionic silver. At the end of 90 days, the same battery of lab tests showed the blood reading to be 100% normalized, indicating the treatment was highly successful. (See http://www.SilverFacts.com for a write-up of the laboratory work. Note that the patient's readings elevated again after use of the product was stopped temporarily.)
My experience in seeing patients and others in the public sector use ionic silver for a variety of bacterial and viral conditions over a number of years indicates that this was not a fluke at all but was rather a predictable result of the use of ionic silver.
The makers of Opti-Silver claim that it represents a quantum leap in the delivery of ionic silver for the human body. At present, they themselves, however, make no disease claims for their product.
Silver May Outshine the Threat of Bird Flu
As for the bird flu "threat," well, there are many theories. While some say a pandemic is inevitable, reasonable arguments are also made that suggest it is far from certain that it will ever be a problem - unless some evil person genetically modifies the organism to actually make it lethal to humans.
Some even speculate that the prospect of bird flu is more of a political issue than a medical one, claiming that it is being used to fan the flames of fear in order to persuade an unwitting public to give up liberties in order to be "protected" by the authorities. That is not my area of expertise. I do find it curious, though, that Tamiflu is still often touted as being the treatment of choice when initial studies to date seem to indicate that it is really not an effective treatment for many viruses, least of all a potential human strain of bird flu. If the stories that say Donald Rumsfeld has a large stake (40% seems most common) in the company that makes it, then that would obviously contribute to the suspicious nature of things. When one thinks of the massive dollars involved, well, one can tend to wonder. Regardless, whether or not bird flu will ever pose a problem to humans is simply speculative at best today.
It seems that perhaps the possible solution to a bird-flu pandemic, if it were to develop, may already exist today in ionic-silver products. And it may be the solution for a lot of things that really need an answer today.
According to Jay Newman, president of Invision, who is a co-member with me on the Committee for the Responsible Use of Silver in Health, hosted at www.SilverFacts.com, he was told a few years ago by the then-director of the largest financial entity in the world that, in her opinion, "The technology behind Opti-Silver has the potential to lead to a billion-dollar company and to make history changing the world of antibiotics, both from a financial point of view and a humanitarian point of view."
Based upon my personal observations and the proliferation of products coming out in the medical field that use ionic silver, it seems to me that that statement may prove to have been remarkably prophetic. At the least, it would seem that this is a technology worth watching and exploring. Ionic silver may prove to be the answer to not only a bird flu strain that may never emerge but also for a very wide range of infectious diseases that are very real and present threats to the health of the public today.
Herbert Slavin, M.D. is the founder and director of the Institute of Advanced Medicine, located in Lauderhill, Florida. He is a member of the Committee for the Responsible Use of Silver in Health, which is hosted at www.SilverFacts.com and at which more information may be found. People with medical concerns should check with their knowledgeable physicians before using any of the products mentioned in this article.
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Hi, Brent -
I almost missed this - the board has been moving so fast lately........
I think there is something to the MSP, versus your traditional colloidal silver products. Although a lot of people have reported benefits from conventional colloidal silver products. I still use colloidal silver as part of a monthly rotation with other products.
If I may ask a few questions:
What is a ``biofilm infection''?
How long have you been taking the MSP?
Is the MSP you are taking the very high concentration?
What is your cost per month for the MSP?
What is the Invision 100?
Thanks very much for posting about this Brent.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Brent my man...I may or may not read what you posted...but...first...
Debunk; definition according to Websters New World Dictionary...I quote..."to expose the exaggerated or false claims of....
Whatever....
So to debate the debauchery of the aforementioned protocol for relief of this debilitating disease with someone with obvious intellectual debility would debase me and this website and redundantly expose you as a debauchee.
So for now I shall just depart!
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Truthfinder: I almost missed this - the board has been moving so fast lately........
I notice the speed does pick up when certain topics are mentioned.
As for me I was tested positive for borrelia which imo weakened my system and allowed strep to take over in my sinuses. (biofilm). Which is why I'm a huge fan of irrigation.
A biofilm is when the bacteria settles down into well a film.(sorry best I could do). It's the type of stuff you see in standing water (that yellow/brown slime)and it's a huge problem in the medical industry.
The problem in killing it is that only the top layer of cells are active. If the top layer is killed another layer is then activated. It must be killed one cellular layer at a time. Traditional abx are useless.
There is also a communication and differentiation between the bacterial cells. For example some cells function is to produce toxins against attack. It's no longer a simple bacterial organism.
Not to gross you out but I've finally been able to feel bone beneath my skin. I previously had about a 1/8 - 1/4 inch biofilm.
As for me I found the combination of MSP and invision to work best. I use Silver wings MSP at 500 ppm. I take both products orally and via the nasal route. I even take it via IV by my doc when I have the $ to do so. I've been on the combo silver products for about...3 months maybe.
Concerning Invision 100...It's a silver molecule made to deliver silver ions (which is what kills pathogens) to the site of infection. when the molecule comes into contact with any type of pathogen the silver ion breaks off, attaches to the pathogen, and kills it. The chinese have their own version.
Another huge factor in my getting better is the elimination of sugars and carbs which feed it. Almost forgot...as to cost it's below $100.00 per month and I take alot of both.
just fyi I'm not selling either. I do like combining Invision with other brands. Mesosilver and ASAP are also top quality brands one might want to consider. especially if they might be allergic to the protein used in MSP.
[ 26. October 2006, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: brentb ]
Posts: 731 | From Humble,TX | Registered: Feb 2005
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Hey Z,
Here is a thought.
What if you are wrong?
What if some people being clinically diagnosed with Lyme don't really have it?
What if, like me, they had it; went through 6 mths of abx treatment and got better. But new problems emerged over a period of time (my case, 10 yrs) which can be attributed to ongoing lyme or can be attributed to many other causes.
What if 2 LLMDs clinically diagnosed (after the 10 yrs in my case) late stage lyme but the bloodtest (Igenex) could only confirm I once had lyme and after receiving that diagnosis, treatment began for lyme but I didn't improve?
Or, as in my case, some symptoms improved but others got worse.
What if, as in my case, Leaky Gut was my problem? Then, using antibiotics to go after Lyme would only exacerbate the real issue.
I have worked with medical doctors throughout my illness. Two very caring Lyme Literate doctors were unable to help me. One very caring, not lyme literate doctor is curing me by looking beyond Lyme.
You debunk things based solely on your personal experience. Don't beat me up for sharing things that are working based solely on my experience.
I believe it is equally important for any and everyone who is not getting well to understand their issues could go outside the realm of Lyme and they need a good doctor who can help them determine ALL that is wrong with them.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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Truthfinder
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posted
Thanks very much for your answers, Brent. I appreciate it.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Us and Them And after all we're only ordinary men Me, and you God only knows it's not what we would choose to do Forward he cried from the rear and the front rank died And the General sat, as the lines on the map moved from side to side Black and Blue And who knows which is which and who is who Up and Down And in the end it's only round and round and round Haven't you heard it's a battle of words the poster bearer cried Listen son, said the man with the gun There's room for you inside Down and Out It can't be helped but there's a lot of it about With, without And who'll deny that's what the fightings all about Get out of the way, it's a busy day And I've got things on my mind For want of the price of tea and a slice The old man died
Pink Floyd...Us and Them Posts: 731 | From Humble,TX | Registered: Feb 2005
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riversinger
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4851
posted
Please be aware that those with low glutathione levels could have serious reactions to silver ingested or IV. Glutathione is required to detoxify the silver from the body.
lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
SOOOO Brent...accoring to you I've been debased and exposed huh???
Yeah...sonds like the pot calling the kettle black to me!
HAHHA!
I'm not the one around here spouting about dangerous and useless protocols....
Luvs 2...if you don't have lyme then why might I ask are you here?... go to the leaky gut board!
Or go to whatever else disease your other than llmd doctor says you have!
I'm glad you don't have chronic lyme anymore...God bless you!
Could I be wrong....SURE!
But hey...I'm just expressing my opinion about certain protocol that are somewhat senseless when it comes to lyme or subjecting ones body to, eradicate whatever and the risk reward factor.
Anyone can come here and use whatever protocol they see fit...I just like to let those same desperate folks know that some things are REALLY NOT recommended by sane people!
Sorry if that offends anyone....but hey!
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by lymie tony z: I just like to let those same desperate folks know that some things are REALLY NOT recommended by sane people! zman
Read carefully the part "with little to no cytotoxicity". Supplements should help with any deficiency. Everything is toxic with the right conditions in place.
Latest research from the University of Texas on silver nanoparticles.
Invention Description
This technology relies on the use of silver nanoparticles as an antibacterial and antiviral agent. These silver nanoparticles exhibit strong antibacterial properties and information has also been generated that demonstrates the ability of silver nanoparticles to deactivate HIV at concentrations with little to no cytotoxicity. This provides the basis for products that can be used to inhibit the sexual transmission of HIV as well as the spread of other sexually transmitted diseases. This new technology is inexpensive to manufacture and compatible with many products currently on the market.
Now lets look at flagyl (not even getting into abx resistant organisms). Tony come on out and state for the record abx are safer than silver. I need another good laugh at your expense.
WARNINGS
Convulsive Seizures and Peripheral Neuropathy
Convulsive seizures and peripheral neuropathy, the latter characterized mainly by numbness or paresthesia of an extremity, have been reported in patients treated with metronidazole. The appearance of abnormal neurologic signs demands the prompt discontinuation of Metronidazole therapy. Metronidazole should be administered with caution to patients with central nervous system diseases. (like borrelia infections)
lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Hey there texas troll...
Nano technology is only theory so far...
A good theory none the less...
But certainly not even close to what you're claiming as a cure!
Oral or iv silver or peroxide is plain stupid!
The risk reward factor with abx, for those who don't have an irrational fear of the great big nasty "super bug" are and have been accepted by thousands of lyme patients.
You my son have a lot to learn, but I suspect that is NOT why you're here.
Missinformation seems more to your liking as is the case for steerites and trolls.
You may CLAIM to have outed me or "proven" whatever it is you claim you've proven...
But that does'nt make it so... It's merely an old tactic overused by folks like yourself.
May I remind you that I am not afraid of alternative protocols.....
I guess I HAVE to remind you that Dr B's protocol
IS an alternative protocol. Just ask any of your neighbors there under the bridge!
That's why there are'nt more of us here as well... Come to think of it...I think I'll follow their lead and just let you stew in your own juices or peroxide or silver or whatever...
What was it The Duke said in "true grit"
"I ain't never met nobody from Texas I could'nt fade"...
TATA
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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Still can't figure out how I'm a Steere troll when I clearly state that what he puts out is BS propaganda...BUT, I do agree abx use for the masses is insanity. See the pictures? If we treat the masses with abx alone this will be happening to millions on the street all resistant to abx.
Posts: 731 | From Humble,TX | Registered: Feb 2005
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