-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Likely lightning would do it in.
Nitrogen release as well as the extreme negative charge.
And then there's ozone...always present.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
I don't see anything in the hypothesis on his website that confirms Lyme is airborne. He is making the case that Lyme is extremely common and widespread. Yet he also admits that those such as Dr. Whitaker believe it can be transmitted through fleas, mosquitoes, etc. as well as ticks.
So wouldn't an equally likely explanation be that most people are bitten by bugs - often frequently - and that's how they are getting Lyme, as well as congenitally?
I'm not saying Lyme could not be airborne - there are labs studying Lyme's use as a bioterrorism weapon, so I presume weaponized Lyme would be airborne.
But I think he is a big leap to a conclusion that may really have other avenues of transmission.
Also, he says he discovered the Lyme/Mercury link. Well, I'm sure he meant he discovered the link for his own knowledge, not that he was the discoverer of the Lyme/Mercury/Autism connection which is so well known and written about by others.
I just think there are some lapses in some of the logic and communication.
But I have not read the book, just the summary on the link.
Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
No, I have not read the book. He says it is soon to be released. It's all been said before - I don't think I will spend any money on this.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Does he literally mean that the spirochetes would be floating around in the air? Never heard that one.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Not sure. I have called the number a couple of times to order but just got voicemail. I do think there are some red flags that show questionable professionalism. Such as calling Bowen labs Boland labs and a few other obvious errors. Nonetheless, I am always interested in hearing what people have to say and want to learn more about his Med-L protocol to see what it really is suggesting.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
This doc is a little off with this statement...although, I think it is interesting the way her refers to the current strain of Lyme as 2006 Lyme...
I often wonder why we are so much sicker than the people in the 1970's...
"I checked patients; antibiotics do not clear any stages of the Lyme bacteria, which is why the neuron-degenerative conditions are medically incurable.
If we go the traditional medical route with 2006 Lyme it will cost, 18 trillion dollars, ($62,000 average cost x 300 million people). We would also risk another mutation of the Lyme bacteria, ( 2006 Lyme is the 133rd mutation) which could be the end for all of us.
I am convinced that the treatment outcome would not be as successful. I do want to say that medical doctors and antibiotics can he used with the Med-L. protocol beautifully.
This union would save a great deal of money, help treatment outcome a lot and would in my opinion minimize the risk of mutation. I personally believe this treatment issue should be discussed by the US government.
-------------------- We are spiritual beings on a human journey...
posted
People are sicker for a variety of reasons, but an airborne lyme is not one of them. There is no scientific evidence for this. Lyme comes from ticks. IDSA, ILADS...everyone agrees on this. If lyme were airborne we'd have many more sick people.
Lets think logically for the moment. I have lived with my parents for the 6 years I believe I've had lyme. None of them are symptomatic. There is no reason to believe any of them have lyme, and I breathe on them every day! How many of you live with family who have not "caught" lyme from you? I'm willing to bet more than a few.
This is the exact kind of crap that makes me paranoid and less trusting of "alternative" doctors. There's so much misinformation out there.
Posts: 691 | From East coast, USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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TerryK
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posted
quote:None of them are symptomatic. There is no reason to believe any of them have lyme, and I breathe on them every day! How many of you live with family who have not "caught" lyme from you? I'm willing to bet more than a few.
While I agree that there is no current evidence (that I'm aware of) to suggest that lyme is airborne, there are reputable ILAD's members who believe that a person can be infected with lyme and be asymptomatic. Those people can infect others. Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797
posted
I would even go a step further with the vectors and include mosquitoes, fleas, lice, and horseflies.
We have a lot of new migrating birds here in the SW, and West Nile is a problem. Who knows what else the mosquitoes are carrying!
If there are signficant errors on major labs, as mentioned, it seems this guy was in a hurry to get a book out and capitalize on the community.
Let him prove me wrong.
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
So why can't somebody that's infected breath "it" out into the air? Or cough it out? Or sneeze it out? Why can't it just blow around in the air? Then somebody else breathes it IN and they get infected.
Not that that would be a very bad infection in the beginning. Not enough to swell up joints.
It may only be a few airborne keets at first getting swallowed. Then it's off to the digestive system for the ``breeding ground'' and infiltration into the rest of the body. Then one day this person ``that has had life slowly taken away''....... getting a little more tired each day, a little more brain foggy, a lot more irritable........ gets really rundown. Stays up late for several nights working or some other high body stress situation and then BANG the keets are on the loose mass multiplying and invading the rest of the body..........super bad headache, chronic fatigue and they think they got ``some kind of bug'' that will go away in a few days.
If you got it, if you are infected, then you **** it too! Maybe it goes airborne when we ****!!!! Keep your hands out of your mouth!!!! Food handlers???????
Does anybody else thing this is the beginning of the end for all us people?
-------------------- Nov-08 NutraMedix, BurBur Pinella WORKS, Japanese Knotweed, d-Lenolate, ALC, Was on Salt/C 1.5 yrs ended in 06 My brain is working better!!
Feeling very good now Posts: 182 | From Northern, NJ, USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
John -- not only people; animals too. Very serious situation.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Hey Careful there Blackstone...you don't want the natural rath upon you!
Yes, I suppose genetically engineered vector borne diseases may have the potential to be made into a bioweapons and manipulated into airborne pathogens...
Having said that....I am not sure that has been done due to the numbers...
Having said that...Whitaker thinks quite possibly all folks have this disease and some(like in AIDS) are genetically asymptomatic and carriers....
She says she has found this disease in soil samples.
How many homeless folks have this disease and have furnished blood or plasma for money to live on?
All things are possible...but not too much has been researched and found conclusive as to airborne TBD's.
I believe the stomach acids would pretty much kill off strains of this disease...otherwise my wife would have it!
or
Perhaps she is asymptomatic and a carrier and or because her abx treatment never got rid of her H-pylori...
The H-pylori is the "Natural enemy and predator" of TBD's....
Hey! Anythings Possible....zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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tailz
Unregistered
posted
I never remember a tick. I was eaten alive by mosquitos as a kid though, and in 1989, I had my first run in with fleas.
I get upset when I see Lyme referred to as a 'tickborne' disease. Until we stop referring to it as such, doctors will continue to spread that fallacy to everyone's detriment.
I will swear until the day I die that I did not get this from a tick.
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Truthfinder
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posted
Thanks for posting about this, Scott. I hope you'll let us know if you ever reach anybody at the number provided. Hey, I couldn't help but notice that you are a perfect candidate for one of those Med-L seminars......
I think this guy's idea and protocol deserve a second look, despite some vague references and glaring errors in the text presented. We may have to cut this guy some slack - he's had ALS symptoms for 10 years, after all.
Personally, I don't think Lyme is airborne. But I do believe that Lyme can be contracted in a number of ways that haven't yet been discovered. As I recall, there were some deadly misconceptions about AIDS transmission in the early days, too.
And my boyfriend is a prime example of a person with Lyme who is virtually asymptomatic.
And Tony Z brought up something important: Lyme has been found in soil samples.
If it is in our soil, it is likely on our fruits and vegetables. If it's in the soil, then it can be on the grasses that animals eat. And we know that those dratted cyst forms of Bb can survive dang near anything.
Most food-borne illnesses are caused by eating fresh fruits and vegetables, although some people still think meat is the main culprit. That just isn't true.
It really doesn't matter WHO comes up with some answers regarding Lyme and treatment. I'm willing to look at ideas from any sector, and thankful that there are those willing to present new ideas.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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SForsgren
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posted
I have left a message but have not gotten any response. I am interested in hearing more even though I am not yet of the opinion that Lyme is airborne. I need to see what his supporting data for that claim is. Nonetheless, if there is one small bit of information that can help, it is always good to pursue. Be well.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Andie333
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posted
I've been wondering myself about how this disease is transmitted.
It's spreading through so many families that I can't really imagine they've all been hiking in tick-infested areas (though I'm sure that accounts for some of it).
To me, that's one of the biggest answered questions re this disease.
Andie
Posts: 2549 | From never never land | Registered: May 2005
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mbroderick
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Member # 5220
posted
Five people in my family have been infected and NONE have a recollection of a tick bite! Granted, we've all been bitten by mosquitos, gnats etc., but not ticks. We don't hike, we don't camp . . . HOWEVER, my oldest son tested positive with no symptoms whatsoever (We had him tested because the rest of us were symptomatic.). He was treated for 6 mos. - no herxing, no symptoms. Raw milk can carry spiroketes, but we don't drink that either. Could it be in the water? If so, most everyone would be sick, with or without symptoms (Hmmmmmmmmmm. Are they?????).
Posts: 2097 | From PA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Maybe the reference to Lyme being airborne has to do with flying insects being vectors, not bacteria just floating around in the air.
Posts: 159 | From Ecuador | Registered: Apr 2006
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Airborne Pathogens. Why not? As we know, they love to hang out together.
Actually, my mom would love that pendant, but *that* is another story!
I am becoming more and more convinced that vectors other than ticks carry lyme, as well as that person to person sexual and congenital transmission occurs.
Airborne transmission? I hope not, but then again, my antennae to the universal energies are in need of fine tuning, so don't listen to me....
-------------------- "Looks like freedom but it feels like death.. It's something in between, I guess"
Leonard Cohen, from the song "Closing Time" Posts: 822 | From California | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I read this with interest (one of the links given, I mean), and a bit of amusement here and there... but then it began to be clear, that there was a questionable sales pitch going on.
It would be good if somebody came up with a program-- a browser extension-- that would immediately let you know if the character sequence ".95" or ".99", appear anywhere on a webpage. The number of commercial ...'cookies'... that try to infect your computer from a given page is also relevant. An approximate formula could probably be arrived at, which would be quite reliable in determining the expectation value of the validity of the information presented on the page in question!...
Those who catch my drift will probably avoid certain types of annoying losses, but you never know... Best of luck to everyone! Sincerely, DaveS
[ 31. December 2006, 03:12 AM: Message edited by: HaplyCarlessdave ]
Posts: 4567 | From ithaca, NY, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
The keets are so small that they pass through the blood brain barrier....... so why can't they be in the air as well?
They are small and light, smaller then a cotton fiber floating in the a sunbeam.
Can't they crawl thru any opening between cells in the body?
Can't they crawl into the lungs?
Can't a cough or a sneeze blow them out into the air?
Isn't possible many people have them at some low level without any physical problems? Then after they get a bad cold or run down or some other stress the keets mass produce and then there are many of them.
-------------------- Nov-08 NutraMedix, BurBur Pinella WORKS, Japanese Knotweed, d-Lenolate, ALC, Was on Salt/C 1.5 yrs ended in 06 My brain is working better!!
Feeling very good now Posts: 182 | From Northern, NJ, USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
they don't crawl...they screw, right? like a cork screw...
but, i don't think they like O2
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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i don't think we need to ato come up iwth any otehr methods to account for the high rates of lyme or tbd--you pick your favorite word
congential transmission (sob I hate that one) and increase of lyme infected ticks throughout the country and world and possibly other bugs
my personal current theory:
many of us did get it congenitally, somehow more benign versions, but managed between bouts of abx, and actually other positves in our life to hold it at bay
but then we got reinfected, from a tick, the double or maybe even triple wammy and that is why we get so sick not just sick like those with tick bites in the 70s, but worse because we've actually been dealing with this infection since we we're kids in the 70s or earlier
thoughts anyone?
Posts: 208 | From Santa Fe | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Just a few more notes: Lyme doesn't necessarily HAVE to be tickborne. There is no question that it can be transmitted throu blood transfusion or needle sharing- it is, after all, a blood-borne disease; the reason it can be tick-borne is that the ticks ap right into the blood vessels! Not all blood-borne ilnesses can be sexually transmitted, but many researchers suspect that Lyme can be, for a multitude of theoretical reasons, as well as some patients' reports.
But like many othere blood- borne diseases, it isn't easily transmitted from one person to anouther through the air. It's probably not impossible; however, I have been in very close proximity to several people when I was infected, and before I was treated, and none of them have had any indication of any Lyme symptoms.
quote:Originally posted by John292: The keets are so small that they pass through the blood brain barrier....... so why can't they be in the air as well?
They are small and light, smaller then a cotton fiber floating in the a sunbeam.
Can't they crawl thru any opening between cells in the body?
-probably, but I think they are extremely unlikely to remain viable- i.e., "stay alive" outside of the body.
It's always possible they could "evolve" a mechanism to do so, but if they do, during all the necessary genetic swapping, their virulence would probably be decreased (it COULD be increased, but probably not...)
Everything is probability... .... It's not even worth buying lottery tickets (but, as they say, "you never know...")! Similarly, it;s not worth worrying overly about means of transmission that current dat sho to be extremely unlikely!
SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
I am not sure why you think they cannot remain viable outside the body. I have heard at some conferences that cows pee on the grass and then other cows come along and eat the grass and thus get infected. So I am not so sure that they are not viable. I have even heard that they can survive heat of over 1000 degrees. The cyst form is very durable.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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david1097
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Member # 3662
posted
Just a note, the cow pee that Scott mentioned is more of a leptospire problem, in fact it IS the main transmission mode for leptospirosis. Leptospires looke identical to Lyme under a scope but they are viable in water for several days. They also morph to sperical forms in hostile (salt) water conidtions (WHO has a reference to the paper on this)
That being said, a well documented way to create encapsulated spirochetes is to drop them into distilled water.
It only takes a few minutes for them to form this way. Put them back into a nutrient rich medium and they take a few days to go back to there original form. Can this allow the things to be transmitted via urine?
Quite possibiy so but there are a number fo hurdles that the bacteria would have to overcome to re-infect a new host.
Things like finding an entry point into the body, tolerating the exposure to sunlight etc.
I am pretty sure that the aerosol statement comes from the fact that Lepto is known to be carried in the water for several days (if an animal drinks water where infected animals have urinated, they will get the disease).
If the water is turned into a aerosol (a waterfall with mist for example) then the disease can be transmitted. Interesting enough, deer are the main resourvoir of lepto (at least around here. Mice and other rodents are the resorvoir in other parts of the world.
It has quite different symtoms (commonly liver) than does Lyme but treatment is similar. There are reports of a wide range of symtoms, similar to lyme (but not joint problems from what I understand). Also there are reports of herxhiemer reactions with treatment.
IT IS VERY INTERESTNG THAT PERSITENT LEPTOSPIROSIS HAS BEEN IDENITIFIED AND IS ACCEPTED BY THIS Scientific/MEDICAL GROUP AS FACT.
Check out the above website under medical, then persistent. It is also interesting that lepto is not reported in the US about the time Lyme became reportable....
There is also a WHO site for lepto... www.leptonet.net It is an interesting site. It makes one think about "lyme" cases appearing after a camping trip, but no bug bite and no joint issues????? But a positive resposnse to "lyme treatment". It is also interesting that the eyes are thought to be the protected site for persistent refractory disease.
I had read some hear-say that willy burdorferi was infected with lyme years ago by mouse urine in a lab accident. Does anyone have confirmation of this. It would be interesting to finally get proof on the matter.
Nimitz...
Yeah.... I got one of those tachyon pendants. You have to buy the one with the 14K gold chain to get it to work the best. The silver one just acts as an energy sink.
Also what they don't tell you is that you need to buy the batteries to make it work. It takes AAAA size di-lithium crystals which are hard to get around here. Next time I travel to the planet assi 9, I will pick up some extras. They only cost 35 rictors for a pack of 4......
[ 01. January 2007, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: david1097 ]
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
You know, I wouldn't put ANYTHING past this Lyme bug. We know so little. I consider the cyst form of Bb like a little spirochete in a Kevlar body suit.
It probably took awhile to figure out conclusively that Syphilis is a STD. Even someone with a raging syphilitic infection only transmits the disease to someone else less than 50% of the time. Since not everyone got infected by sexual contact, it probably took awhile before anyone thought to study it.
Tracy p.s. David, good one about picking up the batteries on Assi 9.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Vanilla
Unregistered
posted
What about the two mice sleeping curled up together or were they rats where one passed it on to the other?
I am pretty dang sure I first got LD from a tick 16 years ago after hiking and sitting in a meadow for hours leaning against a tree where it was obvious the deer had been sleeping recently (dumb move on my part).
2 winters ago I was inbetween homes and received numerous flea bites at the Holiday Inn in Mill Valley where they allow people to bring in pets. The tick bites really made me sick with LD like symptoms. The hotel front desk saw my red welts but the manager was of course in total denial that I could have received bites in his dirty worn out badly managed Holiday Express. The main office for Holiday Inn was in denial too.
Right before that I had bed bug bites from the Corte Madera Inn Best Western. I think it is lame to think that bed bugs can not spread diseases.
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
I have to say (and it will make some people mad at me) but I laughed and laughed reading this thread*)!*)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you, I needed it today!
Awww, IF ONLY this were true!! IF ONLY!*)!*)*)!)! We could all make appointments with all the EVIL IDSA docs and ask them about nonexistent throat nodules and just BREATHE ON THEM heavily- let them think we're excited by their manliness!*)!*) ANd scholarlinecs*)*)!*)!!
(DEEP BREATHING DEEP BREATHING!)
"OH Doctor X!!" "Are you SURE you don't see a rash in my throat? PLEEEEEASE look again*)!*)!"
Yeah yeah yeah, I know, I'm not suppsoed to wish ill on them- but I'm NOT, I am just wishing enlightenment*)!*)! Sometimes the path is a hard one...*)!*)!*)!...
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
lots of mis spelling on that page
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
don't forget lyme is an anearobe and dies when exposed to the slightest bit of oxygen. It is NOT an aerobe.
I think the title should not be taken in it's "literal " sense but rather in the sense of symbolically showing how many people are affected by lyme. It is almost like it is airborne, in that it is inevitable and you can get it from fleas , etc everything.
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