SForsgren
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posted
I am going to start testing this with ART (energetic testing) on people. I think it can be a good option.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Look and ye shall find. It is used by lyme literate physicians - especially, as Scott says, if it tests well energetically for patients.
B]QUINA[/B] COMFORT
Quina is an extract produced from the bark of Cinchona calisaya, a tree from South America that is found between 1,400 meters and 2,800 meters above sea level. Nutramedix utilizes a proprietary extraction and enhancement process that makes this product far more effective than any other Cinchona calisaya product available.
Quina has been used for centuries by native South Americans to treat a number of illnesses including malaria, cancer, fever, dysentery, typhoid, pneumonia, etc. It was one of the first South American medicinal plants to become known outside of the Americas. It was first used in Europe in the mid- 1600's and recognized by the British Pharmacopoeia in 1677.
Quinine, one of the four alkaloids in Quina known to have antimalarial properties, has been used to produce medicines to treat malaria for nearly 200 years. Malaria strains have mutated rendering these drugs far less effective causing researchers to re-evaluate the medicinal properties of whole plant extracts of Cinchona species such as Quina.
Quina is utilized by some health care professionals in the U.S. as an important component of a Lyme disease protocol. It has been found to be very effective in treating Borrelia burgdorferi, the bacteria the causes Lyme disease, Babesia and many of the coinfections that are usually associated with this condition.
In a pharmacological study conducted in May 2005 at the University of Guayaquil, Ecuador, Nutramedix Quina was found to be 14% more effective as an anti-inflammatory than Indomethacin (Indocin), a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) prescribed to treat fever, pain and inflammation. A toxicology study was conducted on Nutramedix Quina at the same University, and no toxic effects were reported even when laboratory animals received 240,963 times the equivalent human dose.
Some other medicinal properties that have been reported:
posted
I mean no disrespect to those who have confidence in energy or "ART " testing , but it is not something I can find credible scientifically . I do realize that others seem to believe it is useful .
My problem with nutramedix is the absolute SCANTY literature and documentation of the science behind their INCREASING ( vastly ) line of herbal cures . It seems shady to me.
Anyone can " market " an herb and make it sound like a " useful " alternative, that in reality , accomplishes nothing .
If there are no people who can give testimony that they improved with the product , then I personally can not justify spending precious dollars on something that has real science behind it and is just " fluff " or hype .
posted
I'm taking Quina. I'm also taking Stephania Root in hopes of it helping the first to work better.
It's only been a couple of weeks so I can't say much yet. Wish I had more to say about it beyond that it seems like it is helping.
I have used a number of different Nutramedix products over the past year and they have all been helpful for the things I used them for.
At first I thought they were pricey, but then I realized that each bottle has 600 drops. So at 3-10 drops per use a single bottle lasts quite long time.
-------------------- When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness, Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.
RuthRuth Posts: 478 | From California | Registered: Jan 2007
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GiGi
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posted
Ann, if in doubt, it's best you stay away from these no "real science" modalities. Stick with antibiotics and the pharma drugs. You know the results of these from the hundreds/thousands that have shared and are sharing their results on this board.
The world is still arguing about the value/truth of Linus Pauling and his Vitamin C.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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klutzo
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Member # 5701
posted
I take Nutramedix Samento, and have found it to be the most helpful herb out there for me, and I think I have tried them all over the years.
However, Quina has dangers. Quinine used to be used to treat heart rhythm problems a long time ago, and like most modern heart rhythm drugs, it can also cause dangerous heart arrhythmias in a dose dependent manner. Because of the extract form of this product, your dose can vary widely from one time to another. Make sure you shake the bottle a lot before dosing to mix it well, and check your pulse often.
I can't take Quina because of the quinine, which makes me stop breathing. That is a very uncommon problem, however. Just be cautious, and raise the dose slowly.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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TerryK
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quote: My problem with nutramedix is the absolute SCANTY literature and documentation of the science behind their INCREASING ( vastly ) line of herbal cures . It seems shady to me.
Also, you can look at the historical medicinal uses of an herb or supplement to see if a product might be credible.
quote: I mean no disrespect to those who have confidence in energy or "ART " testing , but it is not something I can find credible scientifically . I do realize that others seem to believe it is useful .
None taken. I was skeptical of it initially (15 years ago) but the proof is in the pudding as they say. After the first few times, I couldn't deny that I felt better. Prior to that, I had tried to use various herbs and supplements with little success. Muscle testing allows me to gear my treatment to my body in order to get better results.
I feel that muscle testing has literally saved my life and without it I feel certain that we would not have found my husbands cancer in time. It showed up via muslce testing long before it was apparent. Melanoma is fast growing and becomes deadly very quickly. I see the obvious results everyday and I am so grateful for this tool. That said, muscle testing is only as good as the practioner. Good practioner = good results etc..
If you are interested, the book "Power vs Force" details the history of kinesiology along with info on various tests that have been carried out. In a simplistic view, it is based on the finding that muscles instantly become weak when the body is exposed to harmful stimuli and substances that are theraputic to the body make the muscles instantly strong.
Also from the book, "Since the weakness of any particular muscle indicated the presence of a pathologic process in it's corresponding organ (as corroborated through accupuncture or physical or laboratory examination) it was a highly useful clinical tool to detect disease."
It's not 100% accurate and will not solve ALL your problems but still very helpful.
It's only been around since 1971 and yet it has been adopted by many professionals. I've seen 2 M.D.'s and many others who use it. I do not have the energy or desire to spend a lot of time trying to convince anyone that it is a worthwhile tool but consider that it is highly unlikely that so many would be happy with it if there was nothing to it. Results are quick in my opinion. Not something you can continue to believe in without results.
The fact that mainstream medicine has not adopted it means nothing. I think it is clear that they are too wrapped up in politics and money to quickly adopt the most pragmatic methods of diagnosis and treatment. The M.D.'s that I know of who use this method are under fire for using it. Nothing new there.
Wishing you the best. Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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hardynaka
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posted
Ann, add me to the list of initial TOTAL disbeliever on muscle test. I remember I laughed sooo much I couldn't even breathe (with my mom, that still doesn't believe it). This was many many years ago (About 2 decades ago, so to say...).
Me and hubby are very bad muscle testers. So the test doesn't work well with us. I'm sure we need to learn the technique and still lyme disrupts the ANS, so only a knowledgeable practioner (and healthy one!) can do it.
No way to prove it though. If you're waiting for proof, it won't come until too soon.
ART, I believe, saved my life. Or at least, the quality of life I have now. It saved my daughter from erroneous abx (amoxy), as it could see it was not reaching any of the pathogens the tick infected in her (that's the reason she kept going downwards despite taking abx from day 1 after 1st tick bite for whole 3 weeks, and still spiralling down). We followed muscle test (ART), Buhner's herbs, well, she's 100% well now.
I'm very grateful for this tool, that's the main tool that makes me feel less anxious everytime someone around me gets another bite or strange symptoms... I would never discard it as a preventive tool for detecting illnesses.
That's the tool I'm trusting so that the dentist clean my tooth root well after extraction.
I'm going tomorrow to ART test to see which pathogens the new tick infected me as I'm starting to have numbness in legs and arms, like before......
As everybody said though, muscle test is only as good as the practioner. Even Buhner said that!! He said he's seen miracles with it, but as it's dependent on the practioner, so he doesn't usually recommend or use it.
And Nutramedix is a very strong advertising company, but it seems to do good quality products.
I had a very negative feeling toward its Samento pushy research long ago. Buhner confirmed my suspicions. But now I see they're developing lots of other more research (even if 'closed' research), and I keep reading good comments of people trying their products here and there.
I guess we have to be glad there are people researching for lyme disease, and they have to earn their living too.
When I started Buhner protocol, there were almost no one on it (maybe Jimbob only?). There IS still no literature on B's protocol.
If we don't keep trying, who will? Of course, best if there's someone knowledgeable behind you!
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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SForsgren
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posted
ART for me has been a remarkable journey. I am a logical person and struggled with understanding it at first. Now it makes complete sense to me. There IS science and physics behind it.
Of course, I agree 100% with GiGi. If you don't think it is going to help you, it won't and you should not waste your time. Keep taking your antibiotics and do nothing else and then check back and we'll see how the two different approaches work out. I for one would not trade an integrative approach to treatment that may include antibiotics with an antibiotic only approach.
You have to remember that these companies cannot make claims. We live in a country where the government supports drug companies and herbal companies, etc. can make no claims or they will be shutdown. Read the Buhner book. There is a lot of data to support the use of herbs in treating Lyme.
Oh by the way, do you fully believe those lab tests that you get that are negative just becauses they are based in "science"? I for one do not. My ART testing showed WAY before my conventional tests that certain issues were present.
Good luck!
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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TerryK
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quote: If you don't think it is going to help you, it won't and you should not waste your time.
Just follow the instructions you recieve and it will work if you have been appropriately tested. Your belief one way or the other does not matter. I didn't believe at first and it still worked. I've seen this many many times. Heck, my whole family is sick. They didn't believe in it and now they do. Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
Some clarification on Nutramedix...
The reason why it's hard to find information. They are not legally allowed to post info in what the herbs do on an American website, no herb company can make these claims thanks to the FDA. This is not the company's fault, its lovely American politics. Before you guys start saying "something smells...blah blah" remember that it's not the company's fault, they are just following the rules.
If you go to www.nutramedix.cc there is more info because that is the website of the distributor in Ecuador.
hardynaka
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posted
Wildcondor, thanks for the info! I didn't know it, now I see why everything 'intererting' is in the other LAmerican site. Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
In response to Cave's post:
ART, abbreviated for Autonomic Response Testing, does not search for antibodies, antigens, or look for particular strains. ART will find the major players, mutations/relatives, the co-infections if they are in the body, by resonance and other means, too involved to describe here. It finds viruses, fungi, molds, parasites, etc. ART will find it all in minutes an/or seconds.
ART involves physics, light, frequencies, resonance, etc. ART, if performed by a well trained practitioner, will locate the microorganisms in the body fluids, in the extracellular space, as well as intracellularly, encapsulated or free, or deeply buried somewhere, wherever they are.
ART can also pinpoint the location of toxins and microbes, the body compartments, and that way treatment can be applied directly and/or in a number of ways.
ART does not look or test for antigens, antibodies, or try to distinguish between the many strains/mutations.
ART = Autonomic Response Testing - is exactly what it says -- it tests the responses of the Autonomic Nervous System. If a person's Autonomic Nervous System is being compromised by a number of toxins, infections, etc., the results of ART will show the changes and the cause for the imbalance.
ART helps select remedial agents. If a medicine is not suited for the patient, it will "block" the autonomics = the body goes into a stress mode, or "blocked regulation" during which healing does not happen. This is avoided by selecting meds with ART.
A body cannot be tested when it is in blocked regulation. The practitioner has to find a way to unblock the patient. Only then can the body reveal the truth. It's the practitioner's job to know the way to open regulation even if just for a brief period of time. It can take months before a sick patient is able to keep open regulation to the next visit. As toxins are unloaded, regulation starts to stay open. Healing is happening.
There are many reasons for a person's autonomics reacting to toxicity from heavy metals, bacterial pathogens, viral, etc., electromagnetic disturbances, chemicals, food allergies, clothing, jewelry, even emotional imbalances. To pinpoint any or all of these is the purpose.
The stress response that is used in ART is sensed, organized and expressed by the bio-field of the entire organism and the field of each individual cell. It is most visibly expressed by the autonomic nervous system (the Central Nervous System, the Sympathetic nervous system, the parasympathetic nervous system, and the Enteric nervous system).
Sympathetics of the skin are the sensors of the physical body. From here the impulse travels: to the sympathetic ganglia - spinal cord - brainstem - limbic system - hypothalamus - brainstem - spinal cord, autonomic ganglia - sympathetic fibers modulating the muscle spindle of the test-muscle.
ART can accurately identify which is causing the stress to the body. ART also checks for effects and changes in the Autonomic Nervous System from any prescribed treatment for the ART diagnosis. It tests both - diagnosis and treatment.
That's why ART is my favorite diagnostic tool --- everything else, if lab tests are known to be inconclusive, I have found to be a guessing game. That doesn't mean that objective lab testing is not done by ART practitioners - if it verifies the ART results, great. And that is up to the patient to decide.
I remember being ART tested one time after I had already been treated for certain toxicities. I tested positive for arsenic toxins. Of course, I believed the ART results, but for the fun of it, I requested a lab test: Results - arsenic level offff the chart.
No seronegative test results with ART. Well practiced ART lets the body tell the truth and gives clear signals of causes of problems and how to best treat them. Non-invasively.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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I was surprised that a table: "Alkaloid Content Comparison by Cinchona species" seems to indicate that the species used in the Nutramedix product has low quinine content.
However, the list of main plant chemicals is long:
-------------------- When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness, Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.
RuthRuth Posts: 478 | From California | Registered: Jan 2007
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Rianna
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11038
posted
Yeah, I'm kinda afraid of buying things like supplements. As lots of it is shady with people just trying to make money.
Me too-I personally was recomended to take 'End Fatigue Revitalising System' by Intagrative Theraputics-It covers every vit/mineral/amino acid etc and then you just need to take your Cumanda/Burbur/Samento etc. It works out so cheap and the profits go to a charity - Everone I know is on this now it make an incredible difference to energy, without breaking the bank
quote:Originally posted by Rianna: Yeah, I'm kinda afraid of buying things like supplements. As lots of it is shady with people just trying to make money.
Me too-I personally was recomended to take 'End Fatigue Revitalising System' by Intagrative Theraputics-It covers every vit/mineral/amino acid etc and then you just need to take your Cumanda/Burbur/Samento etc. It works out so cheap and the profits go to a charity - Everone I know is on this now it make an incredible difference to energy, without breaking the bank
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I was skeptical of it initially (15 years ago) but the proof is in the pudding as they say. After the first few times, I couldn't deny that I felt better. Prior to that, I had tried to use various herbs and supplements with little success. Muscle testing allows me to gear my treatment to my body in order to get better results. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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