posted
I posted a question this morning about magnesium and received a bunch of wonderful, informative replies.
Since then I've been online trying to find a source for magnesium malate so I can start on what we generally call "Marnie's magnesium protocol." Though I understand it originated with Valetta, I think more people here associate it with Marnie (and gratefully so).
The trouble is I cannot find a brand of magnesium malate that contains the recommended 200 mg needed 6 times/day. The Source Naturals label, for example, says it contains 425 mg Mg as Mg malate and 2.5 mg malic acid--but you have to take 3 pills to get this. That's the 180 capsule container.
The label says exactly the same thing on the 200 capsule container, only you have to take 6 pills to get this. That makes no sense at all. And one of them says "potency 625 mg" and the other says "potency 1250 mg." But it seems to be the same product.
My brain is now fried. Can anyone who's actually doing this help me out?
Thanks so much. I just want to order a magnesium malate I can do for this specific protocol. Thanks.
Peggy
Posts: 143 | From Maryland | Registered: Oct 2006
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Hi Peggy - I think you read the label wrong. The source naturals one contains 2.5 grams, not milligrams, of malic acid, while also supplying 425mg of _actual_ magnesium.
The way it works I believe has to do with the weight of the acid and the weight of the other chemical. Magnesium is binded to an acid, for example; magnesium malate (malic acid), magnesium citrate (citric acid), magnesium aspartate (aspartic acid), magnesium amino acid chelates, etc.
Malic acid I think is really heavy or something, so you will have to take a lot of, and/or huge pills to get a decent amount of magnesium from magnesium malate.
Sooo... for this source naturals magnesium malate, you get 425.00mg of magnesium, and 2.50g of malic acid. That is per serving, which is 3 tablets. Be aware, I've had these exact pills and I will tell you they're huge.
Sorry to keep dragging this on, but I just realized a better example to show you. This NSI brand magnesium malate, shows it better. It contains 1,030.00 mg of magnesium malate. (Remember magnesium malate = magnesium binded to malic acid). Of that 1,030.00mg, 175.00 mg is magnesium, and 670.00 mg is malic acid, so combined they equal 1,030mg.
You Wrote: "The trouble is I cannot find a brand of magnesium malate that contains the recommended 200 mg needed 6 times/day."
I don't know what you were trying to get 200mg of 6x a day of. If you are talking about (elemental) magnesium (Derived from magnesium malate), that would be about 400% RDA of magnesium. If you were talking about 200mg 6x a day of malic acid (in the form of magnesium malate), that would be 1 serving of those source naturals.
Either way, you might want to consider getting the smaller capsules by source naturals. (not necessarily through this site though, just using for an example)
Actually I just realized I may have over-answered your question, but, the two source natural products have the _same serving size_, but the one has tablets that are half the size of the other ones (which are seriously huge).
Hope I answered your question! If I didn't just say so, cause my brains sorta scrambled at the moment as well. And yes, magnesium malate is supposed to be good for energy and such, did you know malic acid is used as a white powdery coating on sour candy? (warheads!)
-------------------- "You know, the worst, meanest, nastiest, ticks in the world are politicks," - Steve Nostrum Posts: 242 | From South NJ | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Hi Eric--I was looking for 200 mg a day of Mg malate because that's the way I understood the "Marnie protocol". Maybe I just misunderstood everything.
If you think your brain is scrambled, you should see mine after spending most of yesterday afternoon trying to figure this out and find the right Mg supplement. It wore me out--which I guess means I need some magnesium.
Hi Tincup--Maybe it's the scrambled brains, but I don't have the slightest idea what "up for help" means. I've also seen words like "bump" and I don't get that either. I spend enough time here that I probably should understand, but I don't.
Somebody at Lyme-and-Rife suggested I just forget the whole thing and follow Dr. B's recommendation of Mag-Tab SR. I think I'm about ready to do just that.
Peggy
Posts: 143 | From Maryland | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Peggy in Maryland: Hi Tincup--Maybe it's the scrambled brains, but I don't have the slightest idea what "up for help" means. I've also seen words like "bump" and I don't get that either. I spend enough time here that I probably should understand, but I don't.
Peggy
Hey, I didn't get it when I first joined either! Any time someone posts, it will "bump up" the thread so others will see it. It brings it to the top.
So some of us just say "bump" or "^" or "up" or "up for help" so the thread will go UP!!
Hope that makes sense!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I just felt like jumping into the act,too,which is why I put the "."
anyway- I take "designs for health" Magnesium Malate Chelate 500mg 1x daily. I started with 1 daily, then went to 2 daily when I had leg cramps, but I'm back down to 1 daily.
It also contains malic acid and glycine, but it does not give strength of them.
None of this really fits your questions, but since you're from Maryland, I just felt like saying
------------------ The protocol essentially is using Magnesium Malate, where there is enough magnesium in it to do approx 200mg, 6 times a day (1200mg total). For example, if you have a tablet of Magnesium Malate which is 200mg Magnesium and 1100 Malate, you would do one tablet every 2 hrs, 6 times per day. (This is to keep the Mg level constant and it takes about 2 hrs for the body to clear Mg). You also take a little B6 sublingually (about 12mg) and Selenium (also about 12mcg) with each dose. The B6 gets the Mg into the cells and the selenium works synergistically. Then a good immune booster (like Host Defense or some other mushroom-type beta-glucan immune booster) so the immune can nail the Bb when it is able to "target" it. ------------------
That sounds like it _could be_ a lot of magnesium for everybody to take, that's about 400% RDA, I got some chest pains from taking too much magnesium before so just be careful. Anyway, you've just got to find some tablets that are either 100mg or 200mg of magnesium each, or something like that.
To avoid doing silly math and taking chopped up pills, if you wanted to follow this protocol than I'd suggest buying These Nature's Life brand 200mg of magnesium, magnesium malate tablets., which contain 200mg of magnesium (from magnesium malate), per tablet. One bottle would last you 16 3/4 days on that protocol.
Btw, I don't know why they listed 200mg of magnesium as 50% RDA on that bottle, when the RDA is 300mg.
So according to the 'protocol', you'd be taking 1 of those tablets, 6x a day.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure that I answered your question this time, if not let me know.
-------------------- "You know, the worst, meanest, nastiest, ticks in the world are politicks," - Steve Nostrum Posts: 242 | From South NJ | Registered: Dec 2006
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Cobweb
Unregistered
posted
I do-Peggy's in Maryland. I am thinking of moving to Hershey,PA though.
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Eat an apple a day for the malic acid (leave the skin on for the pectin).
Mg citrate, NOW (a brand name)...makes a 200mg dose. (Citrates INactivate PFK...the "rate limiting" enzyme for glycolysis.)
Cut them in HALF...only 100mg at a time.
Mg works WITH the B vitamins.
We don't "store" (in large amts.) the B vitamins and most are destroyed by our stomach acids.
PERSONALLY, I'd add a lecithin also. For the choline and phosphorus.
PERSONALLY, I'd take Gamma E by Jarrow Formulas daily. Most vitamin E on the shelves contains only the "alpha" form. This is the "anti-inflammatory" part of vitamin E. The gamma part is the anti-oxidant. Gamma E contains all the tocopherols (alpha, beta, delta and gamma), but in different amts. It is skewed the other way...more anti-oxidant.
Vitamin E works with selenium.
Same with the EFAs...too many 6s compared to 3s.
The balance is off.
PERSONALLY, I'd take a BABY ASA daily. (Once again in the "headlines" from the med. links I read (Comcast medical news and Web MD ....email list).
PERSONALLY, I'd take a good multiple "daily"...one that contains Ginkgo.
And more...for very specific reasons.
The above, I believe are critical.
Yes, I know Bb wants choline, but we cannot be without this nutrient!!! As well as the phosphorus.
Lecithin is a fat EMULSIFIER. It keeps our fat "smooth" and "flowing". This is why it is in all the chocolate we eat. Makes it "smooth" and it then goes down so easily ;-)
Choline is one of several nutrients that make up our bile salts. And our bile salts bind MERCURY to rid it from our system.
Valletta's U.S. patent, "Magesium for Autoimmune", used Mg pyrophosphate (bisphosphate) + sub (lingual) B6 (for the stomach issues I discussed above).
He "jumpstarted" the healing using IV doses of Mg pyrophosphate. Not just once a week!
And no...Mg pyrophosphate is not avail. OTC in "stores". So we need to find another phosphorus source.
Valletta claims to have cured RA, ulcerative colitis and invasive bowel cancer in 6 months.
Possible? I think so. IF we had access to truly following his "protocol" (IV to "jumpstart"...prime the pumps... so to speak).
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Thanks, Marnie. I have Mg citrate in 200 mg dose, as well as a combo called MG Ultra that contains 298 mg Mg oxide, 285 mg MG amino acid chelate (whatever that means), 283 mg Mg malate, and 288 mg MG taurinate. Is this a reasonable balance to restore my Lyme-depleted Mg? And should I be cutting these in pieces and spreading them throughout the day?
I also take plenty of B vitamins, tons of lecithin, selenium, E (but not Jarrow's, though I will get it), EFA's (both plant and fish oils) and a good multiple. In fact, everything on your list except:
What's a baby ASA? You're not talking about baby aspirin, are you? What's it for?
Thanks for letting me pester you. I wouldn't, but I know lots of other people are bound interested in the answers, too.
Peggy
Posts: 143 | From Maryland | Registered: Oct 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Yes..baby aspirin = baby ASA.
To keep the blood slightly "thin".
Yes...spacing Mg is absolutely needed. The kidneys rid "excess" within a 2 hour time frame as they keep the blood pH within a narrow range.
Not too close to meals though. The stomach should be acidic to breakdown food.
The Mg loss is ongoing for several reasons, among them...ethanol lowers Mg levels.
And we KNOW all spirochetes ferment sugar to ethanol/alcohol.
Which is WHY Inactivating the "sugar" route (ultimately PFK1) is important. This is WHY the PDE4 inhibitors are in the "research" news. We needed to find another way since normally Mg-ATP controls this.
MANY pathogens are "sugar lovers".
In part, likely because it takes Mg to make the enzymes to breakdown ethanol/alcohol as well as to make antibodies (along with Ca), etc.
And I do mean "ETC."!
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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