posted
I'm about to reach five weeks on Factive for Bart treatment. I've noticed in the last 10 days a definite increase in muscle pain (all over the body) and terrible fatigue. They are not listed as Factive side effects.
I don't seem to be having tendon issues, this is more general pain all over and it is pretty bad.
I'm wondering if this is typical for someone at this stage of Bart treatment with a quinolone. i.e. - "A Bart Herx?"
I'd like to hear from people who took Levaquin as well, because there aren't too many people out there who have been on Factive.
[ 22. July 2007, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: AndrewInCA ]
Posts: 443 | From The Wild West | Registered: Jan 2002
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lymednva
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9098
posted
I definelty had increaased fatigue on Levaquin. Since I've stopped I've determined that the elbow pain I had was not due to a change in commputer chairs (it was my "mousing" arm), but was the Levaquin, so I'll probably not go back on it.
-------------------- Lymednva Posts: 2407 | From over the river and through the woods | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Hi, I haven't been on in a long time. My LLMD put me on levaqin for UTI and Bart and my elbow felt like it was broken! All my muscles felt too short for my bones. I thought it was a herx but now I read it is a symptom of the drug. I've been off it for about 2 weeks and my elbow is just beginning to feel better. Blessings, Marblenose
Posts: 287 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Your symptoms are listed on the side effects list: is a medical term denoting a feeling of weakness without actual loss of strength. SOME OF THE ACKNOWLEDGED ADVERSE EFFECTS ARE (extracted from the package insert): abdominal pain, arthralgia, asthenia, leg cramps, myalgia, pain, ...etc,etc....
ARTHRALGIA = joint pain MYALGIA = pains all over ASTHENIA = is a medical term denoting a feeling of weakness without actual loss of strength.
Please allow me to reproduce here a recent post of mine relative to avelox, but also valid for factive, levaquin or any other fluoroquinolone antibiotic:
I know it sounds strong, but the real thruth is that avelox [or levaquin, or cipro, or factive or flxin] has a very big potential of causing long lasting and permanent injuries, not to sensitive people but to anyone that takes it in high doses, long treatments or intravenously (IV). In october 2006 it has become mandatory to add to the package inserts of fluoroquinolones that they can cause (and they certainly do) irreversible nerve injuries.
The intoxication caused by avelox [levaquin, cipro,factive] affects all body systems, like central nervous system (insomnia, restlessness, brain fog, anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts ...), peripheral nervous system (neuropathies, high and intractable pain, dry eye, muscle destruction..), autonomic nervous system (heart arrythmias, sometimes very severe, intestine, cold extremities) plus all the well known injuries and lesion in joints (tendinitis, osteoarthritis, cartilage destruction), in eyes (floaters, flashes, retinal degradation, halos, eye pain, photofobia,...) and increases enormously the risk of getting skin cancer if being exposed to direct sunlight. Add endocrine disorders (thyroid, cortisol, testosterone, growth hormone..) and dysclycemia (a diabetes-like glucose desregulation) and you have a fair picture.
To a certain degree (sometimes unoticeable) all treatments with fluoroquinolone antibiotics cause all the above disorders. Here you have an example that shows that any quinolone treatment cause guaranteed damage, although sometimes it is not perceived as such by the patient:
"The first reports of an association between fluoroquinolone antibiotics and tendonitis came from New Zealand and France in 1992."
"There have been many since and by 1994 the FDA had received 25 reports of tendon rupture. Seventeen of these were of Achilles tendons but shoulder and hand tendon rupture was also described. The age range was 33-85 years, and the tendon ruptures occurred at therapeutic doses at a range of two to 42 days after first dose. Of these 25 cases, 14 were also taking steroids and four occurred in people of advanced years, but in nine there were no other risk factors."
"Appropriately for a tendon problem, a prospective ultrasound study was conducted at the Hospital Universitaire Dupuytren [Limoges, France]. Some 23 subjects (15 female) were given a fluoroquinolone orally for two weeks. All had normal Achilles tendons at day 0. By day seven, 14 (61 per cent) had echographic tendonitis. Both sides were affected in seven, and two (7 per cent) were symptomatic."
"The ultrasound features were of hypoechogenicity (50 per cent), peri-tendous effusion (28 per cent) and tendon thickening (22 per cent). For a volunteer study in healthy controls, no ruptures occurred."
"The mechanism by which fluoro-quinolone antibiotics cause this problem is not clear. In animal studies, they can cause arthropathy. There is evidence of collagen depletion and disruption of the extracellular matrix. The antibiotics in this class available in New Zealand are ciprofloxacin and norfloxacin. They are best avoided in children, adolescents and pregnancy. Care should be taken when prescribing for those on steroids. If tendon pain develops, the antibiotic should be stopped and the patient advised to rest the limb and avoid exercise. Diagnostic ultrasound is the most convenient and cheapest way to prove the diagnosis.
The conclusions are almost obvious. When half of the treatment had been completed, 61% of the patients had injuries in their tendons, whereas all of them were healthy before. But only 7% were symptomatic. We can guess easily that probably by the end of the treatment, all volunteers had injured their tendons.
The same can be said about any other disorder.
This past week, on this very same forum, a lyme sufferer posted the outcome of the research done by a canadian university showing that in some cases fluoroquinolone antibiotics induce dormant virus to alter DNA of body bacteria, ending up in a full lyme-like reaction.
In fact it is almost impossible to discern among the clinical symptoms of the toxicity of fluoroquinolones (factive is one of them) and the clinical symptoms of a negative-test lyme.
According to many well controlled experiences, treating lyme with fluoroquinolones means running an unaceptable risk of getting injured far more severely than the lyme illness itself.
The most important thing to remember is that the toxicity of fluoroquinolones is a delayed-onset type. And in the cases where the toxicity shows its worst side, symptoms do not abate with the avelox withdrawal, but increase for months on end. Some times the toxicity becomes evident some weeks or months after completing the treatment. If the treatment has been intense, the damage is normally irreversible.
You may want to read more at Dr. Cohen's site, the dear-doctor letter of Dr. T. Plumb, or thousands of medical reports, all of them linked at these non-profit sites: www.fluoroquinolones.org www.fqresearch.org
Up to now, more than half of the fluoroquinolones that have been marketed, have been withdrawn due to their extreme toxicity, but in fact they were nearly identical compounds to Avelox.
I hope that you are able to detect any adverse symptom soon, get the desired results with your lyme and do not get injured more than we really are.
Posts: 94 | From canada | Registered: Nov 2006
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
I had major muscle pain on the abx that target Bart, including Levaquin.
Fatigue can come with any herx. It can also be a sign of yeast overgrowth. But if it's connected with the muscle pain, could really be a herx.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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Over a year ago, on one of my first rounds of abx I got a very strange symptom when I begun treatment:
I got a "unexplainable" pain in my left foot. The first days I could live with it. The next days it got to a point where I couldn't sleep because of the strong pain. And by the fifth day it got to a point where I couldn't handle it no more, and I had to quit the abx.
At that time I knew one thing: this is not a direct side effect of the medicin. But that's all I knew.
Recently I read a post from this forum which really made me think:
She was using Levaquin, and telling about her reactions: "... The one down side is the foot and leg pain from the Bartonella dying. It's b-a-d..."
I have never been treated for bartonella, but I have bartonella antibodies. So I was thinking that strong foot pain from abx might be a bartonnella characteristic...
(I used doxy)
Posts: 275 | From Home | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Hi Andrew, I just want to say that my LLMD prescribed Levaquin for me, and although it was awesome at knocking out symptoms for me, after two months on it, one day I woke up with tendon pain all over my body and I could barely walk downstairs. I am an active person normally.
It took several months to resolve and even now, 2 years later, I still have rebound attacks of tendonitis which I never had before Levaquin.
I think that these adverse effects are greatly downplayed by the manufacturer and that many patients are not adequately forwarned about them.
kidsatlast
Posts: 156 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by AndrewInCA: What does everyone else think about the flouroquinolone warnings Lymeflox posted in this thread?
I had not heard about this before.
I will never touch a fluoroquinolone antibiotic again. One time was enough.
-------------------- Please dont suggest "ask your LLMD" because we dont have them here in this country... I just have to count on you fellow patients. Posts: 246 | From Finland | Registered: Dec 2006
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lymeladyinNY
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10235
posted
I'm on levaquin now, and after reading lymeflox's post I'm thinking I'll call my LLMD.
I've been suffering with insomnia, anxiety, and depression along with a strong ache in my legs, feet, and back.
I think it's the levaquin. I was wondering why I've been so weepy and miserable lately.
Thank you, lymeflox.
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