posted
This is probably a stupid question, but my BIL just killed a deer and it was covered in ticks. Do you think the meat is safe to eat?
Posts: 615 | From maryland | Registered: Oct 2007
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tailz
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posted
I hope it's infected. We should not be killing deer.
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D Bergy
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The meat would likely have Lyme bacteria but since you cook it and it goes into your stomach I do not think it poses any real danger. Plus it is frozen in between.
I make venison jerky with curing salt and food dehydrater. I have ate pounds of it without a problem.
If more people hunted deer there would not be the epidemic of deer ticks and Lyme. There is far too many deer in my area. They have gone from a buck only season when I was a teen to up to five deer of either sex in some areas now. This is an attempt to control the deer population. When they get over populated they eat themselves out of food and starve to death. It is no coincidence in the increasing incidence of Lyme and the exploding deer population.
I do not see the difference between killing a cow to eat or killing a deer to eat. Something dies either way.
D Bergy
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TerryK
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posted
I don't know the answers, just what I've read from a few sources and some of the info was conflicting. At one point I read that deer don't get lyme disease - doesn't really answer the question I know. Another article I read said that they rarely get it. I don't know which is correct.
I suppose you could introduce borrelia infected ticks into your environment if you brought home a carcass with ticks if any were infected.
I know that the spirochete lives through blood banking procedures which are pretty extreme. They are very hard to kill.
This topic has been discussed here many times. I didn't search through all of these links to determine how valid they were but there are a number of the following links that have similar titles to this thread. I just entered "deer meat" in the search facility to get this list. There are more if you care to continue looking.
Truthfinder
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posted
Thanks, Terry.
It isn't the deer population that is responsible for more Lyme - it's the rodents, primarily mice. More and more studies are showing this, and this has been discussed on this board, too.
Tailz, I'm not keen on hunting either - primarily because some of these hunters couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, or take shots when they shouldn't, so lots of deer and elk get wounded. What would you suggest for controlling the population instead of hunting?
Have you ever witnessed thousands of deer, elk, and antelope starving to death? I think you might change your mind if you ever witnessed this. It is horribly cruel. A `clean kill' from a hunter is certainly much better than that.
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posted
as far as hunting goes, I did not start this topic to debate hunting. but my opinion is that we are meat eaters, plain and simple. the vegetarian way of eating is very unhealthy. I was one for 3 years, and it was during that time my health deteriorated the most. there are studies that show vegetarians have a higher rate of stomach cancer (probably due to too much soy) and are higher risk for some other cancers. go to weston price site and do some reading. every vegetarian I know has been sickly looking. God didn't create us to be veggies. all the pseudo-science that suggests it is faulty.
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hshbmom
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posted
I'd be very careful handling the meat. Wear gloves to gut/dress/cook (yes I'm paranoid, but who wouldn't be after what we've experienced), cook thoroughly, clean up immediately after preparation. Look for splatters & drips.
Also, ticks will take a while to drop off after the deer dies. You don't want them dropping off in your yard or wherever you dress the deer...put a tarp or something under the carcass.
No blood smearing/drinking rituals.
Deer don't get the disease; they just carry it...ticks are on their bodies. I wouldn't want to take a chance by eating undercooked meat though.
Starving deer will haunt you if you ever saw them...not a pleasant childhood memory. ...not a pleasant death.
Roro, there are some places that will test the ticks for Lyme/coinfections for a reasonable fee...maybe a university just for the information. Contact your state university's wildlife or animal science department, maybe the insect department (entomology or entymology?).
There's one place in Texas that tests ticks. Igenex will test them for $50 each, but who can afford that?
Posts: 1672 | From AL/WV/OH | Registered: Jun 2006
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ByronSBell 2007
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posted
Deer and lyme should never be mentioned together because there is no correlation.
It is perfectly fine to eat deer meat. These bacteria die at 103-106 degrees F. So... you are reaching much higher temperatures when cooking!
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tailz
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posted
I was starving to death last year, and nobody would shoot me. And yeah - it was pretty ugly to watch.
I don't think the deer are the problem though - I think there are too many humans, and so does the environment.
And before we start blaming deer or mice for their mating practices, I think we had better determine what signals all our electromagnetic fields are sending the deer population, since all life forms mate in response to the earth's subtle signals.
Personally though, if I had starving deer in my yard, I would plant things for them to eat. I do that with stray cats - even deserted bunnies.
I think we're fooling ourselves into thinking that no deer equals no Lyme Disease though. I've never hunted, but I would think the ticks just drop off when the deer dies, right? If this is true, less deer means more Lyme for humans.
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posted
there are millions of hunters who eat deer meat,skin,and cut them up without gloves,,they are healthy and us lymies are sick. Deer herds are being cut in every state because they are the main transporter of adult deer ticks that fall off and have many babies,and more,non hunters get bit with them.Because hunters have enough brains to tuck there socks over there pants,and wear repellents,and also check themselves. Studies done have shown the deer doesnt get the illness. I personaly know butchers who have cut thousands up and dont have lyme disease. If people didnt kill deer,you wouldnt be able to drive your car. And if you like living on lettuce,and wonder why you cant fight off lyme disease,doesnt mean you should say hunting is cruel. Stuffing pill,after pill, in your body is more harmfull,than a person killing a deer for food,which is by far better meat than money could buy. Hunting has been around as long as man himself,without it you would not be here today.
Posts: 510 | From NEVERLAND.USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
yes,but in towns and cities across the US.deer are transporting them from woodlot to woodlot. Coyotys have been stocked in areas to control the mouse population,as they eat a average of 20 per day.
Posts: 510 | From NEVERLAND.USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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ByronSBell 2007
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posted
quote:Originally posted by tailz: I was starving to death last year, and nobody would shoot me. And yeah - it was pretty ugly to watch.
I don't think the deer are the problem though - I think there are too many humans, and so does the environment.
And before we start blaming deer or mice for their mating practices, I think we had better determine what signals all our electromagnetic fields are sending the deer population, since all life forms mate in response to the earth's subtle signals.
Personally though, if I had starving deer in my yard, I would plant things for them to eat. I do that with stray cats - even deserted bunnies.
I think we're fooling ourselves into thinking that no deer equals no Lyme Disease though. I've never hunted, but I would think the ticks just drop off when the deer dies, right? If this is true, less deer means more Lyme for humans.
Deer don't know anything about electromagnetic fields. My dad use to own 300acres next to a radio station in the country with a huge cell tower. We hunted on that land and close to 400 "bucks" have been shot on it in a decade, so they don't repel from electofields.
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JimBoB
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You are correct, DEER do NOT get Lyme disease.
Ticks do feed off them though and then reproduce. SOME of them have Lyme D.. Mice and other rodents are the culprits of carrying the Lyme disease though.
WE were NOT created as MEAT EATERS. We WERE created as vegeterians. However after the big flood, God gave mankind the animals to eat. Not ALL the animals though. Some are considered clean and some are not. Read the Bible, our instruction book for life.
Being a vegeterian does not cause us to get cancer; it is all the chemicals in our environment that we ingest by food, water and air. AND the electronic and other types of polution that our bodies were not designed to be compatible with.
The industrial age is killing us, and will until it is gotten rid of. Going to take a great power to do that. Mankind is too stupid to do it.
Science sure won't do it. For every problem they solve they create a dozen more problems. Give or take.
Eat your deer meat, IF you cook it very well. Worry more about CWD than Lyme.
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
Just cook it well. Cooking well wont help if its chronic wasting disease though.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Truthfinder
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posted
I agree, Wyo. The fact that live Bb were found in the milk of dairy cows in Wisconsin indicates that cattle are likely harboring the Lyme organism, too.
Cooking will kill the spirochetes, but we don't know what it takes to kill the cyst forms (cell wall deficient form). Some say the cyst forms can withstand fire of 1,000 degrees........ it sure makes you wonder why this isn't a major topic of interest in research...... seems kinda important, doesn't it?
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quote:Originally posted by ByronSBell 2007: Cyst form can withstand 1,000 degrees F?
metal melts to liguid at that temp.
where is it from, outer space?
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treepatrol
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quote:Originally posted by ByronSBell 2007: Cyst form can withstand 1,000 degrees F?
metal melts to liguid at that temp.
Where did that come from?
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Truthfinder
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posted
Don't quote me, but I believe it was GiGi who posted about the high temp needed to kill the cyst form, and I think it came from Dr. K., who has access to many German and other European studies that we don't (and never will have).
No, it should not be taken a gospel. But what should be taken seriously is that we just don't know how much it takes to kill the cyst forms.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
YES deer are infected with Lyme- and Babesiosis- and Ehrlichiosis- anaplasmosis- AND with borrelia lonestari- *******************************
1: J Med Entomol. 2007 May;44(3):478-83.Links
Transmission of bacterial agents from lone star ticks to white-tailed deer.
Varela-Stokes AS.Department of Infectious Diseases, University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602, USA. [email protected]
Amblyomma americanum (L.), the lone star tick, is an aggressive ixodid tick that has been implicated as a vector for several bacteria.
Among these bacteria are the disease agents Ehrlichia chaffeensis and Ehrlichia ewingii, and the putative disease agent "Borrelia lonestari."
The hypothesis in this study was that wild lone star ticks from northeastern Georgia are capable of transmitting all three agents to white-tailed deer, Odocoileus virginianus, a known reservoir host for E. chaffeensis.
In this study, transmission of all three agents from wild caught lone star ticks to captive reared white-tailed deer was demonstrated by polymerase chain reaction (PCR), culture, or serology.
Two of three deer showed evidence of E. chaffeensis and E. ewingii infection by polymerase chain reaction assay; all three deer showed evidence of B. lonestari by PCR assay.
E. chaffeensis was isolated in culture from both PCR-positive deer on multiple days.
All three deer seroconverted to E. chaffeensis, whereas one deer seroconverted to B. lonestari.
This study supports the role of lone star ticks and white-tailed deer as a vector and reservoir host for E. chaffeensis and E. ewingii and suggests for the first time, transmission of B. lonestari from lone star ticks to white-tailed deer.
PMID: 17547234
1: J Wildl Dis. 1999 Apr;35(2):266-74. Links
Infections of granulocytic ehrlichiae and Borrelia burgdorferi in white-tailed deer in Connecticut.
Magnarelli LA, Ijdo JW, Stafford KC 3rd, Fikrig E.Department of Entomology, Connecticut Agricultural Experiment Station, New Haven 06504, USA. [email protected]
Serum or whole blood samples, obtained from 141 white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) in Connecticut (USA) during 1980, 1991, and 1996, were analyzed to detect past or current infections of Ehrlichia phagocytophila genogroup organisms and Borrelia burgdorferi.
When the BDS or NCH-1 strains of granulocytic ehrlichiae were used separately in indirect fluorescent antibody (IFA) staining methods, antibody positivity rates varied from 25 to 64% in 1991 and 1996, respectively.
All 50 sera tested from 1980 collections were negative.
Although percentages of sera with B. burgdorferi antibodies, as detected by an enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay, also differed (23 to 53%), there were coexisting antibodies to both bacteria in 20 (49%) of 41 sera.
In tests on specificity, 19 deer sera with ehrlichial antibodies also were tested by IFA staining procedures for Anaplasma marginale antibodies; one serum with a titer of 1:5,120 to ehrlichial antigen reacted to A. marginale antigen at a serum dilution of 1:320.
In parallel analyses of 69 sera, results of Western blot analyses for ehrlichial infections in deer were concordant (72% agreement) with those of IFA staining methods containing ehrlichial antigen.
All positive immunoblots showed bands to peptides of the NCH-1 strain of the human granulocytic ehrlichiosis (HGE) agent having molecular masses of about 44, 105, or 110 kDa.
In polymerase chain reaction (PCR) studies of blood samples from 63 deer, 11 (18%) specimens were positive for 16S ribosomal DNA of an Ehrlichia phagocytophila genogroup organism, whereas 23 (37%) samples were positive for the DNA of the 44 kDa gene of the HGE agent.
White-tailed deer are exposed to different tick-borne bacteria in areas where Ixodes scapularis ticks are abundant and may, in some instances, have had concurrent infections.
PMID: 10231753
1: Vet Microbiol. 2006 Jun 15;115(1-3):229-36. Epub 2006 Feb 3. Links White-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) develop spirochetemia following experimental infection with Borrelia lonestari.Moyer PL, Varela AS, Luttrell MP, Moore VA 4th, Stallknecht DE, Little SE. Department of Infectious Diseases, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602, USA.
Borrelia lonestari is considered a putative agent of southern tick-associated rash illness (STARI) and is known to occur naturally only in lone star ticks (Amblyomma americanum) and white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus). We used a low passage isolate of B. lonestari (LS-1) to inoculate white-tailed deer, C3H mice, Holstein cattle, and beagles. Animals were monitored via examination of Giemsa and acridine orange stained blood smears, polymerase chain reaction (PCR), indirect fluorescent antibody (IFA) test, and/or culture isolation. Spirochetes were visualized in blood smears of both deer on days post-inoculation (DPI) 6, 8, 12 and one deer on DPI 15. Whole blood collected from deer tested PCR positive starting on DPI 4 and remained positive as long as DPI 28. Both deer developed antibody titers of >64, with a maximum IFA titer of 1024. The organism was reisolated from the blood of both deer on DPI 6 and one deer on DPI 12. All isolation attempts from mice, calves, or dogs were negative, although one of seven mice was transiently PCR positive. Mice and dogs developed an IFA titer > or =64, while calves lacked a detectable antibody response. These preliminary experimental infection trials show that white-tailed deer are susceptible to infection with B. lonestari and develop a spirochetemia following needle-inoculation, while C3H mice, calves, and dogs do not. Results suggest that deer may serve as a vertebrate reservoir host. Tick transmission studies are needed to confirm that this organism can be maintained in a natural cycle involving deer and A. americanum.
PMID: 16459029
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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tailz
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8man12 - God gave us plenty of plants which are more than capable of sustaining us. I think JimBob may be right, though I'm not sure. I know he's right though that certain animals should never be eaten, and I grew up on pork hot dogs.
As far as not being able to drive my car, big deal. Cars have not been around all that long, and we did just fine with horse and buggy - few fatalities, too.
Byron - The house closest to the cell phone tower is not always the one subjected to the highest magnetic field - sometimes the house that gets nuked the most is several thousands of feet away from the tower.
And deer may not have a conscious awareness of electromagnetic fields, but the cells in their brains sure do, and this is what controls both their thoughts and actions.
Spirochetes in milk though? I ordered a book on the immortality of microbes. I'll let you know what sorts of things they can survive when I get the book.
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TerryK
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Human Granulocytic Ehrlichiosis Clinical Infectious Diseases 2000;31:554-560 http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/CID/journal/issues/v31n2/000287/000287.html "Most patients diagnosed with HGE have acquired their infection after exposure in areas where ticks are endemic, and 60% of patients recall a preceding tick bite [13, 41]. Although tick bites are thought to represent the main method of transmission of the HGE agent to most patients, we have recently seen several butchers develop HGE shortly after cutting large quantities of fresh deer carcasses [54]. None of the butchers described any preceding tick bites. It is therefore possible that exposure to infected blood represents an occupational hazard to persons who process large quantities of fresh deer meat, by direct inoculation of the HGE agent through cuts on skin or contamination of mucous membranes."
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Geneal
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posted
Kind of makes you want to skip the blood sausage, eh?
I don't like venison, but I do like beef.
Never really thought about bb in the meat supply.
I hate the thought of a well done steak.
Darn. One more pleasure to feel guilty about.
Hugs,
Geneal
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TerryK
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posted
Spirochetes in the blood is the definition for spirochetemia. Isn't that infection? Deer also produce antibodies. Are there studies that show the reasoning behind the claims that deer cannot pass the infection to ticks?
Where is the info about temps needed to kill spirochetes? Are there studies?
White-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) develop spirochetemia following experimental infection with Borrelia lonestari.
Moyer PL, Varela AS, Luttrell MP, Moore VA 4th, Stallknecht DE, Little SE.
Department of Infectious Diseases, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602, USA.
Borrelia lonestari is considered a putative agent of southern tick-associated rash illness (STARI) and is known to occur naturally only in lone star ticks (Amblyomma americanum) and white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus).
We used a low passage isolate of B. lonestari (LS-1) to inoculate white-tailed deer, C3H mice, Holstein cattle, and beagles. Animals were monitored via examination of Giemsa and acridine orange stained blood smears, polymerase chain reaction (PCR), indirect fluorescent antibody (IFA) test, and/or culture isolation. Spirochetes were visualized in blood smears of both deer on days post-inoculation (DPI) 6, 8, 12 and one deer on DPI 15.
Whole blood collected from deer tested PCR positive starting on DPI 4 and remained positive as long as DPI 28. Both deer developed antibody titers of >64, with a maximum IFA titer of 1024. The organism was reisolated from the blood of both deer on DPI 6 and one deer on DPI 12.
All isolation attempts from mice, calves, or dogs were negative, although one of seven mice was transiently PCR positive. Mice and dogs developed an IFA titer > or =64, while calves lacked a detectable antibody response. These preliminary experimental infection trials show that white-tailed deer are susceptible to infection with B. lonestari and develop a spirochetemia following needle-inoculation, while C3H mice, calves, and dogs do not.
Results suggest that deer may serve as a vertebrate reservoir host. Tick transmission studies are needed to confirm that this organism can be maintained in a natural cycle involving deer and A. americanum.
PMID: 16459029 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
1: Yale J Biol Med. 1984 Jul-Aug;57(4):651-9.
Prevalence of the Lyme disease spirochete in populations of white-tailed deer and white-footed mice.Bosler EM, Ormiston BG, Coleman JL, Hanrahan JP, Benach JL.
The prevalence of the Ixodes dammini spirochete (IDS) in white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) and white-footed mice (Peromyscus leucopus) was studied on the eastern end of Long Island, New York. Both species commonly occur in a variety of habitats, are preferred hosts of Ixodes dammini, and can harbor the spirochetes in the blood.
Each animal was examined for spirochetemia, tick infestation, and IDS infection rates in the ticks that were removed from it. The results obtained suggest that in winter deer can be infected by questing adult I. dammini.
Adult ticks apparently are infected through transtadial transmission of spirochetes from subadult ticks which had fed earlier in their life history on infected animals. Deer are important hosts of adult ticks and the IDS in winter and probably are a reservoir host in other seasons.
The patterns of spirochete prevalence suggest that deer and mice are reservoirs of the organism and thus are fundamental to the ecology of Lyme disease on Long Island.
PMID: 6516461 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
[ 22. October 2007, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: TerryK ]
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I don't believe that deer meat can give you lyme. I don't eat it myself but my husband and lots of other people I know do.
As an aside, my husband was moose hunting (he was the guide) over the weekend and when they got the moose he said that he had never seen an animal with so many ticks on it. He was glad that it was going straight to a butcher and he didn't have to handle it. I forgot to ask him if he warned the butcher!
-------------------- "Few of us can do great things, but all of us can do small things with great love". Mother Theresa
disturbedme
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posted
JimBob - I agree with you about meat eating and vegetarianism.
I don't see anything wrong with being vegetarian. It can be just as healthy as a meat eaters diet.
I don't agree with Roro that every vegetarian looks sickly. Obviously, you haven't seen many vegetarians. I know many who look well. I'm vegan and I don't think I look sickly. No one tells me I look ill. I've got fat on my body. I eat a healthy diet, I eat enough. I take a multivitamin, etc.
I do think this was an interesting post though since my husband eats meat and it was a good question to ask.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
I was a strict vegetarian for years and years and years... Tom Regans The Case for Animal Rights convinced me when I was pretty young and I also lived in India for years where veggie food is plentiful and good. Now I eat meat.
ANYWAY- Babesia CAN BE passed through uncooked meat.
Experimental transmission of Babesia microti infection by the oral route
Journal Parasitology Research Publisher Springer Berlin / Heidelberg ISSN 0932-0113 (Print) 1432-1955 (Online) Issue Volume 80, Number 8 / August, 1994 Category Original Paper DOI 10.1007/BF00932947 Pages 645-648
Filiberto Malagon1 and Jose Luis Tapia1
(1) Laboratorio de Malariologia, Depto. de Microbiologia y Parasitologia, Facultad de Medicina, UNAM, Cd. Universitaria 04510 D.F., Mexico
Received: 30 November 1993 Accepted: 15 April 1994
Abstract Previously we have described the transmission of malaria by the oral route in a murine model. Due to the similarities betweenPlasmodium andBabesia, we tried to reproduce oral transmission in parasites of the latter genus by ingestion of infected blood and by cannibalism.
In the first case, experimental mice were inoculated orally with 20, 50, or 100 l ofBabesia microti-infected blood, and in the second, each fasted experimental mouse was offered the corpse of an infected mouse serving as the bait inoculum.B. microti infection was acquired by 3.7% of all experimental animals orally inoculated with infected blood and by 15.1% of all mice inoculated by cannibalism.
The approximate period of prepatency ran from 2 to 4 weeks. No control mouse acquired the infection. This represents the first time that oral transmission of babesiosis has been described.
This kind of transmission may be present in nature. Babesiosis may be acquired and maintained in nature in the absence of ticks.
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
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JimBoB
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Disturbed: I am not a vegetarian, but I know of a lot of people who are. They were very healthy. Look at Carrie Underwood, she looks plenty healthy to me. Listen to her talk about it.
I admire vegetarians and others who eat healthy foods. Hopefully, someday, I can get myself to do that also.
I think that vegetarians can actully be more healthy than meat eaters. When we eat meat, we are just getting our veggies, second hand. And it is not as efficient as getting them directly.
PLUS the meat today, is fed with a lot of chemicals and given antibiotics as a matter of factly.
Course IF we buy our veggies and fruits in a regular store it won't be so healthy either. More chemicals from spraying, etc..
Just something to think about.
Another thought: Interesting there are so many conflicting studies related here. IF a person really closely reads some of them you will see words like "may" or "could", relating to some of the results. So which ones to believe.
ALSO, SOME metals melt at a little over 600 degrees.
There is NO way that a spirochete could survive at a temperature THAT high. Everything would be burned to a crisp. There would be no cells left.
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Truthfinder: [QB] I agree, Wyo. The fact that live Bb were found in the milk of dairy cows in Wisconsin indicates that cattle are likely harboring the Lyme organism, too.
What does this mean regarding the safety of milk?
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posted
My Lymedoc says cook meat to 180 to kill spirochetes. The same would be true of milk. If you use the ultra-pasturized, then it has been heated to 180 degrees and should (in theory) be safe.
BTW...how do we know that deer don't get Lyme? Did anyone ask the deer how it was feeling?
All my horses test positive for Lyme, and they don't appear ill. I make sure they get plenty of rest and don't overstress them, but I'm not putting any of them in the Kentucky Derby or anything like that.
~Spotted
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tailz
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I just started reading a book about microbes - and more importantly - their immortality. Cooking just makes them go into cyst form. Apparently, a lot of microbes like iron, too - something I've had to avoid.
I look at it this way - the planet is about to explode because we are sucking up all its energy due to technology. I guess microbes figure I'm the best bet for them to survive the inevitable explosion.
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quote:Originally posted by Spotted pony: BTW...how do we know that deer don't get Lyme? Did anyone ask the deer how it was feeling?
~Spotted
I was thinking exactly the same thing. From experience we all know that humans, even when they tell doctors all their lyme symptoms, and test positive for all the signs with MRI's, blood tests, CT scans, etc. are still told they are not sick. so how can anyone possibly know if the deer are sick? they can't even tell us how they feel.
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ByronSBell 2007
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quote:Originally posted by tailz: I just started reading a book about microbes - and more importantly - their immortality. Cooking just makes them go into cyst form. Apparently, a lot of microbes like iron, too - something I've had to avoid.
I look at it this way - the planet is about to explode because we are sucking up all its energy due to technology. I guess microbes figure I'm the best bet for them to survive the inevitable explosion.
CaliforniaLyme
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posted
The above is a photo of how deer FEEL.
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
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TerryK
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posted
Hilarious!!! I needed a good laugh. Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Yes, horses do contract Lyme according to studies as do dogs, mice, etc.. They are the prime targets for Lyme. NOT deer, or cats, or goats.
LisaS
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10581
posted
BB has been detected in cows milk in Wisconsin? can you get it then by drinking this? Is there an article about this, I think I missed it somehow? Can you please post it if you have it?
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Lisa, I believe I originally read this in a hard copy of Alternatives newsletter or the Journal of Degenerative Diseases. Theoretically, pasteurization would kill the Lyme bugs, but I have my concerns about the cyst/CWD form surviving.
I did find an article where this was mentioned online, and there may be others out there - I didn't have much time to search.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
1: Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 22;146(17):497-9.Links Diagnosis of Lyme disease in two cows by the detection of Borrelia burgdorferi DNA.Lischer CJ, Leutenegger CM, Braun U, Lutz H. Clinic of Veterinary Surgery, University of Zurich, Switzerland.
Two cows from different herds in a district of Switzerland known to harbour ixodid ticks had erythematous lesions on the hairless skin of the udder, were in poor general condition with a poor appetite and decreased milk production, and had a stiff gait and swollen joints. Borrelia burgdorferi sensu strictu DNA was detected in samples of synovial fluid and milk from one of the cows and Borrelia afzelii DNA was detected in synovial fluid from the other by means of a real-time PCR.
PMID: 10887997 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
: Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1988;539:235-43.
Borrelia burgdorferi infection in Wisconsin horses and cows.Burgess EC.
School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Wisconsin, Madison 53706.
Blood samples from Wisconsin horses and cows suspected of having clinical disease due to Borrelia burgdorferi infection were submitted by veterinary practitioners. All serum, milk, colostrum, and synovial samples were tested for B. burgdorferi antibodies by immunofluorescence. Whole blood, milk, colostrum, and synovial fluid samples were cultured for B. burgdorferi.
Records were kept on the clinical signs of antibody-positive animals, date of sample, and location of the animal by county. Of the samples tested for antibodies 282/430 cow sera, 118/190 horse sera, 5/10 cow synovial fluids, 3/6 horse synovial fluids, 2/3 cow colostrums, 0/44 cow milk samples and 1 aborted fetus serum were antibody positive at a titer of 1:128 or greater.
Of samples cultured 7/156 cow bloods, 2/35 horse bloods, 1/14 cow synovial fluids, 0/4 synovial fluids, 1/3 cow colostrums, 0/44 cow milk, and 2/10 cow urine samples were B. burgdorferi culture positive.
For both cows and horses October and May were the two peak months for the number of antibody-positive samples. The most frequent clinical signs in antibody-positive horses and cows were lameness and swollen joints, but many also had stiffness, laminitis, abortions, and fevers.
Not all antibody-positive animals showed clinical signs. These findings show that B. burgdorferi infection occurs in horses and cows and can cause clinical illness in some but not all animals.
Infection in cows and horses occurs most frequently 1 month after the emergence of adult I. dammini. Because spirochetes could be isolated from blood, synovial fluid, colostrum, and urine, these animals could be important in providing an infected blood meal for ticks and bringing B. burgdorferi in direct contact with humans.
PMID: 3190095 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
I am fairly sure any meat that may have Lyme bacteria in it would be killed quickly by the stomach acid and the digestive process.
If it did not there would hardly be a human who did not have Lyme or many other bacterial diseases. Even the more virulent bacteria that can make it past the stomach only give problems at a certain concentration.
There are not many bacteria that can get past the stomach acid. I don't think it is much of a threat.
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Thanks, Terry.
I did review the second study you posted but in that study, neither anti-bodies nor actual Bb were found in any samples of cow's milk (although both antibodies and Bb were found in some of the colostrum samples).
There are too many asymptomatic people out there who test positive for Lyme for us to conclude that exposure = disease. It seems clear to me that there are must be other factors in play before a person's health becomes compromised.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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