posted
I felt like I had this .... I lift weights and still felt like I was wasting ... like I was tearing down muscle at the same rate I was building it, but at one time I dropped 15 pounds, so then I was just losing.
Now I'm focusing on protein more, especially after I work out. I eat some form of protein with every meal and use undenatured whey. I think it's helping ... I look less deflated.
I don't know what causes it, but I didn't have it until my Lyme became more active.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
hi sixgoofy kids
thanks for your post. Sorry to hear you have this too....wondering if it is at all from the babs or lyme or just something else.
Sounds like yours is lyme related? Do you have babs too? Sorry that I can't recall at the moment. I know it's really starting to scare me. Because my weight is finally at least somewhat stable for now. It just seems like no matter what I do My muscles look wasted.
I take whey protein shake in the am. Should I up it to 2 times a day? Can you get too much protein?
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
-
The CFS / CFIDS researchers have studied this a lot.
I will look around my computer files during sputs of energy, but "mitochondrial dysfunction" and "CFIDS, Chronicle" might bring you some articles if you want to google that.
Also informaton on "cardiac impedence" (or impedance?) - can help explain what might be happening when illness/fatigue has been chronic and the body needs its immediate energy just to survive . . . the effects on the muscles, ATP production.
Corvalen is a d-ribose supplement that seems to help some. L-Carnitine (sp?) is another. Glycine yet another. Glutathione and precursors, too.
In the meantime (and based upon what I've done or read), increasing your whey to 2 or 3 times a day should help. No, you can't get too much of that. But one day a week or a week every so often, I'd trade off to a different sort of protein powder.
People who have been ill need much more protein anyway. And protein helps us detox. Whey is a pretty easily absorbed protein, not like you're eating a couple steaks a day, but some animal protein really helps in addition to the whey. Eggs are good, yet muscle meat helps me the most: salmon, sardines, poultry and grass-fed beef (if you can get it).
(Edit to add: I forgot to mention legumes and grains (quinoa has high protein for a grain.)
I'll come back later with a bit of what I've gathered over the years on this but, hopefully someone with just the right recipe/remedy will share.
-
[ 06. November 2007, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Too much protein is not good for the kidney's. Also, the body does not store protein.
-------------------- The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back. -Abigail van Buren (Pauline Esther Friedman) (1918-2002) Posts: 409 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2005
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Dana, I drink whey protein morning and night. I use 3 scoops, which is 1 1/2 servings. Also, having some protein immediately after I work out seems to be helping some .... I've gained a pound since doing this. I don't need to actually gain more .... I'm starting to look more "filled out" as far as muscle goes.
I also try to eat meat or eggs at least once per day, and to get protein at every meal, even if it's just milk. My kitchen is being renovated (was completely torn out), so when I get back to having a place to prepare real meals, I should be able to up my protein a bit more ... right now dairy is big for me ...
I do have babs ... I've been treating it for 10 months now and the symptoms are minimal from the babs. I'm struggling more with the bart and Lyme right now, particularly the bart. Bart was causing a lot of GI symptoms which are resolving, so I think this is helping, too.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Pocono Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5939
posted
I had this so bad two years ago. I was losing way too much weight. It started with the anti yeast diet then diagnosed with babs.
Started the Mepron/Zith but continued to lose weight. Was ordered on bicillin shots a couple of months later and couldn't do them due to not enough muscle mass to inject into.
I was taken off of the anti yeast diet though. Just told not to eat anything sweet. I was also bed bound then and had been for over a year at that point. It took months to get some muscle back.
Not back to normal but the rest of me isn't either. Not too active.
-------------------- 2 Corinthians 12:9-11
9 But he said to me, �My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.� Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ�s power may rest on me. Posts: 1445 | From Poconos, PA | Registered: Jul 2004
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
thanks Keebler, soleipie, pocono lyme & sixgoofykids for your comments & suggestions
The eggs sound like a good idea. If memory searves me the choline in the yoke is supposed to be good? Not 100% on this. I am not a big fan of eggs but will try to choke down a hard boiled egg a day.
I might try to up my whey to 2 times a day & see what happens.
This is maybe a side symptoms of babs pocono lyme? Would make some sence. I think some left over babs has maybe also kept my stomach problems & weight issue as well.
I did get rid of my low grade fevers and thought I said goodbye to babs but maybe this is a left over resistant symptom?
Unfortunately I can not abandon my anti-yeast diet right now. Am back on the dilfucan again. Rats a unending circle to be sure
Thanks again for all the feedback, you guys are the greatest Dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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Pocono Lyme
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posted
Dana,
Not so sure if I could blame it on the babs. as it took nearly 3 years for the lyme dx and then came the babs diagnosis.
I was one that had the unexplained weight gain with lyme. I'd have to say it was either the babs treatment, the anti yeast diet or the combination.
Do be careful with high amounts of protein as soleilpie is correct about the kidney issue. A friend of my husband's wouldn't listen to me and was doing the protein shakes.
When his bloodwork was drawn, his MD was furious with him, so he finally listened to her and stopped.
Have you been treated for bart as that is usually the culprit for GI symptoms.?
-------------------- 2 Corinthians 12:9-11
9 But he said to me, �My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.� Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ�s power may rest on me. Posts: 1445 | From Poconos, PA | Registered: Jul 2004
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tdtid
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posted
I'm not trying to be difficult since I often confuse easily and today seems to be one of those days.
But this yes to lots of protein/no watch the protein, leaves me wondering what the inbetween is. I'm definitely in the same boat as you, Dana and trying to figure out what the best way to shake things up and change what I'm doing since it obviously isn't right.
Guess that's what I love about this board though. You definitely can get both sides and then it's time to do some research. Interesting topic. Thanks for starting it.
Cathy
-------------------- "To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006
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5dana8
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posted
thanks pocon lyme & tdtid for your added comments
yikes, it is hard to know what to do.,everyone's body is so different. I think I will call my family doc about the protein question.
thanks again Dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
-
Excellent reminder regarding kidneys and too much protein. Salt reduction, too if the kidneys are challenged. That's why periodic blood work helps.
However, if people with good kidneys get too little protein, that's not good, either.
Many authors have documented the increased need of protein for those with chronic illness - so the chart below may not even be enough. But that what you can discuss with your doctor. Some proteins are easier on the kidneys than others, too.
My guess is that many of us are too tired or financially challenged to eat enough protein. Vegetarians need more than just B12 supplement. Taurine is just one other factor missing in most vegetarian diets that is vital. It's not just eating food for the protein content. Many important nutrients are in these foods to help us. --------------------------
Adequate synthesis of protein (and thus tissue repair) may be limited by several conditions; insufficient intake of dietary protein has been associated with
(with) immune dysfunction, impaired muscle use, decreased bone mass, decreased cognitive function, delayed healing of wounds (surgical included) and increased morbidity.2
Additionally, medical conditions such as malabsorption syndromes, gastrointestinal disease, and both chronic and acute infections can lead to deficiencies of micronutrients and increased requirements for protein and energy.
footnote: 2. Gallagher HJ, Daly JM. Malnutrition, injury, and the host immune response: nutrient substitution. Curr Opin Gen Surg. 1993;92-104
--
[ 06. November 2007, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Most PROTEIN POWDERS have about 15-20 grams per serving, from what I've seen. Here are some figures for some foods:
From Harvard School of Public Health Protein: Moving Closer to Center Stage
Excerpts:
We know that adults need a minimum of 0.8 grams of protein for every kilogram of body weight per day to keep from slowly breaking down their own tissues. That's just over 7 grams of protein for every 20 pounds of body weight. . . .
for women . . . average amount of protein (less than 68 grams a day).
A note about nuts: I recall reading something about avoiding nuts if cold sores are a problem. Other herpes viruses, I'd check. L-Lysine is supposed to help correct that, though.
-
[ 06. November 2007, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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5dana8
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posted
wow! Thanks keebler for all the info on protein
The food charts are very helpful! Amazing that broccoli & potatoes have protein in them.
I am going to print this out & awesome info to know food content ect..
Thanks again, Dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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Keebler
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posted
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Dana,
Glad this helps. And, YIKES, looking at the charts, I've not been up to par lately.
Hey, I'm too zapped to find the articles on the ATP and mitochondrial dysfunction that I origninally went looking for.
But if you need that you can google it, or I'll try to find it another day.
"mitochondrial dysfunction" ; "ATP"; "CFIDS Chronicle"; "Peckerman, cardiac+impendence"; are all good search terms.
Mitochondria are the power packs inside our cells. We have to make them happy for them to recipricate. Sometimes they need special help.
There are many specific nutrients that can help. But food is tops and gentle movement and activity that is enjoyable.
I was thinking today, though I know an unbalanced high-protein diet is hard on the kidneys, chances are good that if muscle wasting is involved, too low protein is more likely.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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5dana8
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posted
Thanks again keebler
I will google the MD...I need all the power packs my cells can muster lately
And thanks again sixgoofykids , you are so very sweet! and so helpful to so many of us here. God Bless you
Dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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Dave6002
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posted
My guess is that the connection between the muscle and the brain has been weakened due to the damage of neurofibers caused by the Lyme bugs.
It is well known that if the connection is broken, the muscle would "die".
So the strategy is to kill the bugs and restore the function of the neurofibers.
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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5dana8
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posted
Thanks dave
Didn't know that, very interesting and makes alot of sense
take care Dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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D Bergy
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posted
I had muscle wasting as a result of my Crohn's disease. I lost forty five pounds in a period of weeks. If your body is not digesting food properly it feeds on itself.
I do not have a sure fire solution because I am puzzled as to why this would occur with Lyme. But, for one reason or another you are not assimilating what you are eating. If I had to guess, I would say it could be fungus overloading your intestinal tract or bacterial overgrowth of a bad kind.
It also could just be the Lyme working your body so hard, it has not got much left for muscle repair and growth. I agree that a high protein diet should help either way.
Ginger in the diet should help improve digestion but it would be ideal to clean out the digestive tract. I only know of one way to do this but it would cause a nasty herx also. Not sure if that is a good idea.
Hope you can figure it all out. It is a mysterious problem.
D Bergy
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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D Bergy, you might be onto something .... I did have bacterial overgrowth of the intestines and it's been being treated for a couple months now. My intestines are a lot better, and so is the muscle .... but I had also increased my protein, so it could have been a combination of the two.
Thanks, Dana.
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TerryK
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Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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tailz
Unregistered
posted
I had severe muscle wasting - my face, ribs, arms, legs - I looked like I was starving to death. You could almost check for broken bones without even x-raying me.
I just noticed I started regrowing my chin of all things.
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