posted
I just posted a thread. I've been on IV levaquin for bart for about three weeks and felt depressed-like for the last week. I also tend to cry, especially when I drive or stay in room alone. But is this herx? Truth is, I can't feel the herx, or maybe my fogged brain can't tell since I mainly have neuro symptoms...
Posts: 196 | From atlanta/norcross, georgia | Registered: Feb 2007
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Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4715
posted
Oh yes, it's definitely a BART herx. I cried daily my first 2 mos of treatment. I'm entering my 5th month but just added the Cumanda a week ago.
The depression, daily crying and anxiety eased up into the 3rd month and in the 4th month I've seen noticeable improvement.
What you're experiencing is definitely a herx; an exacerbation of your initial symptoms. It can be really scary but each time you herx, you're killing the infection and in small baby steps, will feel clearings.
Don't expect much improvement in the first few months...you have to be patient and brave but it DOES come. I highly recommend some form of anti-depressant and anti-anxiety meds while you're on this treatment.
I needed them to get through the scary herxing to keep calm, even and rational.
I just wanted to know from others on the board if the herbs from the Cowden protocol can cause you to herx the same way that abx cause you to herx?
Sorry U R feeling blue. I am not on the Cumanda but wanted to keep the thread going in hopes some more folks would reply soon.
CALLING ALL CUMANDA USERS!!!!!!!!!
Hope you get over the herxing soon. We are still digging our way out here after 15 inches of snow.
Posts: 476 | From Columbus, Ohio | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Cumanda did not give me an emotional herx, but Rifampin is definitely doing strange things to me emotionally. How long did it take before you had improvement on Rifampin? Have you taken other Nutramedix products for bart? (i.e. Quina, Banderol?).
I have had crying jags from all manner of supplements, antibiotics, and homeopathy, so if you think you're having an emotional herx from Cumanda, you probably are.
Posts: 929 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2007
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Hey girl! saw this posting and went, oh my goodness, that's me.....except I'm on the Buhner herbs! It's kicking my butt.....I went in for an emergency visit to my LLMD thinking I was relapsing and he was like, "it's the herbs, I can't believe you ramped up that fast on them". I went from completely fine to crying and suicidal impulses (yep, they're back). He told me to back off of them and just stay on the abx protocol. He said he had seen Buhner herbs put people "on the floor". Boneset in particular.
However, he said my babesia symptoms (we weren't sure I had it, now we know) are finally rearing their head since the bart is being knocked down....I'm off balance, am having some fits of rage, other classic babesia stuff that I've never had before. So it's muddled to me.
I'll have to ask him about cumanda at my next appt. He's always talking about your LLMD's research, by the way.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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Clarissa
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posted
Hi Friends,
Thanks for your kind responses. I was supposed to go off the Rifampin and just do the Cumanda for Bart but my paranoid brain didn't want to stop Rif & Zith combo after only 4 mos.
So, I continued that combo AND ramped up to 30 drops 2X daily of the Cumanda. I must be a certifiable nut...surprised I didn't end up in the ER, too CD57! (sooooo sorry about that...glad you're okay)
I'm down to 20 drops 2X daily. It just AMAZES me that an herb can cause you to herx. How ignorant and naive I am...this has certainly been an important lesson and it's actually "comforting" to know there are things that can kill the TBD's other than abx.
Anyway, I talk to my LLMD this week and I'll have to confess to my over-achieving sins (sigh). I can already hear the silence on the other end of the phone. What can I say? I'm relentless and I want to kill BART before I even start Babs.
CD57: I had NO idea Babs caused rage but my rage is starting to come out, too, as the Bart is being killed. Very interesting as I always thought it was Bart that caused rage.
Oh the special daily discoveries we have from these TBD's.
Justtag: I gave you all of your answers in the other post you had going about IV Levaquin so check that out...it's says when I started feeling better, etc.
Anyway, keep you guys posted, and thanks always, for your support! Hope you're all hanging in there, too.
Clarissa
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Member # 4715
posted
Sorry, Justtag....wasn't your question (and thanks, by the way, for the yahoo group info!!)
LymeCFIDSMCS: If you goto Justtag's post on IV LEvaquin and depression you'll see my response and that gives you the chronology of my experience with Rifampin.
It DEFINITELY causes emotional herxes...you'll see when you read my response.
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Hilarious..."I can already hear the silence on the other end of the phone". Oh you baaaaad girl!
Keep us posted. Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
CD57: I meant "emergency visit to your LLMD"
uh...can you guys tell my ocd is kicking in again?
It took me 1/2 hour yesterday to decide WHICH free stuffed dog I would take with my Victoria Secret's cotton pink underwear line (as I've lost so much weight, I needed new underwear...5 pairs for $25.00...sweet).
Anyway, I already have the pink dog but there was a blue, green and yellow one. I ruled out the navy blue and finally picked the yellow guy. My brain can't stop thinking about the green one...and that I made the wrong decision.
We're talking a FREE small stuffed dog, folks. Get the straight jacket...
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Hi Clarissa -
The herbal protocols are quite strong. About 20 + years ago, I worked at a store in NYC that sold culinary & medicinal herbs. I learned alot about herbal therapies back then. I don't think I have Babs or Bart but I experiences a ramp up of pain during the Cumanda. I'm going slow with it. I'm up to about 8 drops, twice a day after starting back in January. Maybe, I felt the effect of the Cumanda more since I stopped all abx back in Oct or Nov 2007.
I haven't noticed much in the way of emotional issues but I spent many years meditating. It's good to have a big cry sometimes. We go through so much extra stress just dealing with this illness. My doctor suggested that I try Cymbalta for nerve pain so I tried some samples for about 14 days. It did help a bit with the pain but it didn't seem to affect my mind much. I'm not big on anti-depressants but I suppose they are helpful even if it's just the placebo effect. I wasn't happy with the side effects of nausea so I decided to stop using Cymbalta. I was on a very low dosage.
I'm not advocating any religion but there are some good audio CDs available that have what is called "binaural beats" embedded in the audio. They are different forms of brainwave patterns that effect your brain function through sound. I find them very effective & relaxing. My 2 favorites are CDs by Dr. Jeffrey Thompson & a company called Hemi-sync. I have found these CDs to be very good for periods of stress & pain. I'll add some links below.
I believe it is possible to get better without using antibiotics. I'm not telling anyone what to do but I am going to continue my therapy by just using the Cowden protocol plus additional supplements. There are also other herbal protocols to try if the Cowden herbs don't work. I have found the Cumanda to be highly effective - so I'm going to stick with the other Cowden herbs when I'm ready to continue.
I'm not against pharmaceuticals but herbs can be very effective without the harsh side effects. I have done alot of research & I have a number of reasons as to why I don't think antibiotics are a good idea. Everyone has to find their own way of dealing with Lyme. I just want to state that you can stop the abx & be OK. You can always go back to them later if you feel it is necessary.
Good luck!
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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CherylSue
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Clarissa, it took my at least 3 months to get to 18 drops of cumanda twice daily. You certainly went fast. I still take it at 18 drops/twice daily. Anything more, and I feel funky.
Yes, it certainly can make you cry and feel depressed. I certainly felt that way when starting cumanda and only on a couple of drops.
Good luck.
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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Clarissa
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posted
Sparkle: Thanks so much for all of the helpful information. I come from a traditional medicine background (my dad is a retired doctor) so I had no idea how effective herbs could be.
That's why I ramped up so quickly, thinking, oh this will be "nothing" compared to Rifampin and then when I hit 30 drops 2X daily it was like BAM!
I just started sobbing out of nowhere and the world went dark again. With the exception of Lyme (which I've already treated) my Bart & Babs symptoms are ALL emotional.
I was making my bed and the teardrops were just sprinkling over the sheets...and this was my GOOD weeek (after having my "P") so I was like, Holy Sh**! This Cumanda is no joke!! Plus, taking with the abx, it was double whammy.
I'm probably going to be in "trouble" when I tell my LLMD because he wanted me to stop the Rifampin and replace it with the Cumanda but I've always been a rebel.
Oh well, at least I survived and must of had a kick-a** die-off.
I'm down to 20 drops 2X daily and that seems to be manageable. Those cd's sound SO intriguing and right up my alley. Thanks for letting me know about them...I'm definitely going to check it out!!
CherylSue: Thanks for the validation, too! Yeah, I clearly ramped up too fast but I'd been killing bart for over 4 mos so I "think" I was not as vulnerable. I honestly didn't feel ANYTHING until I got up to 30 2X daily.
Hopefully that's a good sign, meaning I've killed a lot of the bart and this is just some leftovers...Or a parasite Or yeast Or some leftover Lyme Or I'm certifiable.
"Normal" people would have NO IDEA by looking at me (while in the mall yesterday) how disturbed and tortured I am. I kept thinking of that as I walked around, shopping (pain in my hip from my trendy shoes, sooooo tired, mildly depressed, not getting that 'old shopping high')....dying to get home.
When the ole' cheesy guys were checking me out, I wanted to say, "listen buddies, I have the libido of a snail and IF I ever get my libido back, I will hunt down Justin Timberlake or Ryan Gosling and be the Cougar I've always been...so beat it."
Thank heavens no one can HEAR my thoughts...especially over the whole free stuffed dog toy. Coule I BE more of a freak?
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Yep, I have similar thoughts when walking through a mall or other public place. "None of you have any clue what I'm thinking; if you did, you'd think I was nuts". BUT I wonder if they can tell something's wrong by looking at me considering the hideous dark eye circles have reappeared, AND I have dry-eye crud when I wake up in the morning.
Bart, be gone!
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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