Topic: Dr Fry/radio/ magnesium, biofilms, serrapeptase,garlic
pamoisondelune
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posted
On Dr Fry's talk on the radio (www.contacttalkradio.com/ "in short order")
he said (i'm not looking at my notes here) that magnesium supplements help create biofilms and that some patients who stop taking magnesium supplements improve greatly, or did he say cured?, and that 80-90% of bacterial resistance is from biofilms, and that in one experiment patients getting either EDTA or abx did not improve, but patients taking EDTA plus abx did improve, but patients getting EDTA, abx and magnesium again had no improvement; something like that.
So he is against magnesium. But i, as a person with osteoporosis who HAS to take magnesium with calcium to make sure it goes into the bones, want to offer my experience--- I've taken plenty of magnesium every day for 4 years on abx, and i keep getting better!
To counteract biofilms i take garlic and proteolytic enzymes (such as serrapeptase). Both of those help against biofilms. So, if i had been taking ONLY magnesium and abx, supposedly i would still be quite sick. But, EVEN THOUGH taking Magnesium, the fact that i ALSO took garlic and proteolytic enzymes while getting better and better, shows that the Magnesium biofilm-boosting effect can be at least partly countered by ALSO taking anti-biofilm things such as garlic, proteolytic enzymes, and maybe nattokinase(?).
Posts: 1226 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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djf2005
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posted
i concur.
im on vacation and forgot my serrepeptase and im hurting...
natto works ok, i also take garlic.
im not currently on magnesium, altho i often wonder.
how was your osteo arthritis dxed?
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
posted
I always have said that I had relapse on magnesium from my own exsperience.Read all my posts.
I have said over and over..that the 3 times that I used MAGNESIUM ( liver flushes , hot baths and restarting the mgnesium shots) , I made BARTONELLA /Blo active and had full blown enchephalistis in the frontal lobe .Right after my liver flushes.It took me 6 months of antibiotics to reduce it .
That restarted MAgnesium shots after 6 weeks of levaquin and relapsed.
NO MORE MAGNESIUM SINCE MARCH and I improved.Also have added serrpeptase, Wobenzyme, natokinase.
YES and no crapms on my legs and less and just a few twitches since stopped magnesium.
I was going with my own exsperince .AS YOU ALL KNOW MY BART load was very high and I have 3 strains of bart.
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Lauralyme
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posted
Interesting thread Pamois, thanks for posting
How long have you been taking the enzymes?
-------------------- Fall down seven times, get up eight ~Japanese proverb Posts: 1146 | From west coast | Registered: Mar 2008
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Cass A
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posted
Did Dr. Fry state that he was basing his remarks on blood tests?
I don't know what tests you can do for biofilm. I've seen photos of blood with fibrous tubules in it that have been called "biofilm" or "tubules," like these two terms might refer to the same thing. These were in a talk that Cold Feet referenced, as I recall.
However, most biofilm research that I have heard about concerns the formation of bacterial colonies in a biofilm that protects them, usually on some surface.
Were these patients infected with Bartonella ONLY?
Lots of questions....
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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pamoisondelune
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posted
djf-- Osteoporosis, not osteoarthritis; very different. Diagnosed by bone density scan, symptoms agreeing; but after two years of alternative treatments, NOT doctor's proferred drugs, i'm not having many symptoms, maybe i'm back in osteopenia range.
lauralyme-- i think i've been taking proteolytic enzymes for half a year, garlic for 3 1/2 years. I could look at my notes if i had to.
CassA-- You could listen to the talk at www.contacttalkradio.com/ "in short order" on July 14. Do you want me to check my notes and listen to the talk again? I think they are referring to more than just Bartonella. The talk is about new mystery organisms that show as little dots attached to red blood cells, maybe hemobartonella or some kind of mycoplasm. Definitely bioslime that protects bacteria colonies.
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Marnie
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posted
See my Fry wrong post.
Bartonella is using calcium, NOT Mg.
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sparkle7
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posted
Should we stop both calcium & magnesium according to Fry?
With the Cowden protocol - you take magnesium 2 times a day (I forget the milligrams). I've recently read that calcium may not be very beneficial, as well.
Ever since I've been ill, doctors have been pushing me to take magnesium like crazy for fibro, lyme, etc.
It would be interesting to find out if this is making me worse!
Whomever has info about this - please post! This is important.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Marnie
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posted
If your body is acidic (and it is), it WILL pull from storage and utilize your most abundant mineral...calcium in order to maintain the very narrow pH.
IMO...and I've said this before..we need to knock off Bb FIRST.
His antics are allowing the other pathogens to survive.
Note that the Tetracyclines bind to CALCIUM from foods/drinks taken at the same time....making those abx. ineffective. This is one of the ways tetracycline is working...it is lowering extracellular Ca blood levels...which does help.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
If I stopped taking Mg, I would totally disabled by muscle cramps. These start even when I am just a few hours off my supplement schedule. So, not going to stop taking it.
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CD57
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posted
Interesting...what are the LLMDs saying about this?
It doesn't make sense that if one is severely magnesium deficient (which many Lyme patients are) that it would be beneficial to NOT supplement it if you need it.
Garlic--how much, what brand, are you folks taking of garlic? Do you smell?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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pamoisondelune
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Member # 11846
posted
I take Allimax. It's expensive, but it doesn't smell! I did eat raw garlic cloves several yars ago, but that was very hard on my husband, also it was very harsh on me too.
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sparkle7
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posted
I listened to the show & I'm so confused. He says that there is evidence that magnesium helps build the biofilm (but it wasn't a Lyme biofilm, specifically, that was studied)...
He also said that his opinion was controversial with other professionals.
I don't know what to think now...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Get your focus off of Lyme...Bart, Myco and other bacteria are the ones that use mag to build biofilms. He never says that these bacteria eat the stuff...they use it to build biofilms for protection. If you do some researching, you will find that Bart primarily uses amino acids for it's energy...glutamine is one of it's favorites.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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sparkle7
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posted
Thanks! I really don't think I have any of the co-infections. Bart seems particularly nasty.
It is very scary about them. He said they have very few ticks with Lyme in AZ but the mosquitoes & fleas can carry bart.
He said that bart is worse than Lyme & harder, if not impossible, to cure.
I was aware of bart as Cat Scratch Fever when I was a child. The doctors thought my mother had bart when I was 11 but it was really Lymphoma.
Her lymph gland under her arm swelled up to the size of a grapefruit...
You really have to be careful.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Marnie
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Member # 773
posted
Bartonella is using CALCIUM!
BARTONELLA:
These results implicate intracellular Ca2+ pools in B. henselae-induced angiogenesis and may lead to increased understanding of the mechanisms of pathogen-induced angiogenesis.
Antigenic material was present in bacteria and calcified nodules. This case illustrates calcified protobacteria becoming incorporated into scar tissue during endocarditis.
The facultative intracellular bacterium Bartonella henselae induces unique angiogenic lesions in immunocompromised hosts.
To determine the role of intracellular calcium pools in B. henselae-induced endothelial cell proliferation, we generated B. henselae-conditioned medium (BCM) and tested the ability of these cell-free proteins to induce human umbilical vein endothelial cell (HUVEC) proliferation, CXCL8 production, and intracellular Ca2+ signals.
HUVECs incubated with BCM for 3 days had higher cell numbers than controls. In addition, HUVECs produced increased amounts of CXCL8 in response to BCM when compared to medium controls.
When BCM was added to HUVECs and the intracellular Ca2+ response measured with the calcium-sensitive dye fura-2/AM, a Ca2+ rise was demonstrated.
It was determined that this Ca2+ rise originated from intracellular Ca2+ stores through the use of the Ca2+ ATPase inhibitor thapsigargin.
Further, it was demonstrated that BCM enhanced CXCL8 production and HUVEC proliferation in a Ca2+-dependent manner.
Conditioned medium from B. henselae causes an intracellular Ca2+ rise in HUVECs, which is involved in B. henselae-induced HUVEC proliferation and CXCL8 production.
These results implicate intracellular Ca2+ pools in B. henselae-induced angiogenesis and may lead to increased understanding of the mechanisms of pathogen-induced angiogenesis.
PMID: 17678436 DNA Cell Biol. 2007 Sep;26(9):657-63.
But there are OTHER pathogens that use a combo. of Mg,Ca and Fe in their biofilms.
What happens when you get salmonella? Diarrhea, right? What happens when you take a LOT of Mg? Same, right?
posted
Marnie, if you can't learn how to make tiny url's, would you please not post these long url's on threads anymore.....it screws it up for everyone and makes it very difficult to read. You've already put these nasty long links on other threads...no need for them here. Thank you.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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sparkle7
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posted
I really appreciate Marnie's expertise even though I really have to study it.
Marnie - use http://www.tinyurl.com to translate the long link into a shorter one. You just enter the link & it makes a truncated one you can use, instead.
Some people's computer's can handle the long links.
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kelmo
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posted
Bartonella uses magnesium to create a biofilm. Not calcium. The biofilm consists of magnesium.
Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
Marnie below shows the exspression as how the test showed bartonella efected my daughters body as I mentioned above.
I am writting exactly what QUANTUM Biofeedback found out at my daughters test .She has patterns of BART.Abnormal Henselae and Quintata and will check her out with FRY lab also.
IT SAYS:" PH balance register in overly -alkaline ( actually overly -acidic ) range indicative of the body drawing from it own resources i.e, Calcium from the bone , Magnesium from the muscle .An acidic pH is the ideal envirenment for pathogen."
It is also mentioned on the report something about the SPLEEN has been efected -I guess Bart loves spleen.
So the statement actually came from the test that was done on 2 diferent dates and I checked for my daughter after I confirmend that ME and my Son had LYME.
I just wanted to confirm it with a diferent way if she had lyme as Dr J said she does not have it .She had only band 39 -that means in her case exsposure only.So I did use the test to make sure.
I also confirmed the Lyme diagnoses for me and my son and the test showed we had lyme. The practitionar had no clue what we had .
I wanted to check what was active in our body and was TRUE everything that came up.The money spent was worthit to know more things about ourself that we would have never known .
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