posted
I'd like to hear your opinions of and experiences with the Buhner Protocol, either alone or in combination with antibiotic therapy. I just finished reading "Healing Lyme" last night, which I approached with a healthy level of skepticism due to its alternative, herbal nature, and the fact that the author has no formal qualifications.
However, the book was very well researched, and as long as there is published data to support it (and there is for the herbs in Buhner's Protocol), I'll keep an open mind and try anything. A further measure of legitimacy is lended by Kenneth Singleton, an ILADS M.D. who features the main herb's of Buhner's Core Protocol in his book The Lyme Solution, albeit in lower doses.
So, who has seen success with Buhner's Protocol, either alone or in combination with antibiotics? I was so psyched up after finishing the book last night that I logged on iherb.com and ordered a month's worth of the core protocol, which totalled about $200. Please help convince me that I will not regret this impulsive purchase.
To compare notes, I found the cheapest or most closely adhering products to Buhner's criteria to be Nature's Way Andrographis and Sarsaparilla, Now Foods Cat's Claw and Jarrow Formulas Resveratrol. I'm going to work up to the full dosage slowly, and I will be taking traditional antibiotics at the same time (tetracycline and some others pending my next appt with Dr. P on Monday).
Posts: 195 | From Manchester, CT | Registered: Jun 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Never had access to a LLMD and many of the abx cause me a rash or severe tinnitus anyway. Dx with 3 TBD in '97. I've treated with many supportive formulas but this seems much more specific.
I began this a few months ago and have more hope than in the past 12 years that I am on the right path. (Although Zhang's protocol worked well for the few months when I could afford it. It is also excellent.)
As for if you can do Buhner's protocol with abx or not, there is a time when he says abx are vital. I don't recall specifics but it's in the book.
Many LLMDs incorporate elements of both Zhang's and Buhner's protocol.
In addition, PubMed has dozens of abstracts on most of the herbs used. Of course, it is the combination that matters, but seeing medical abstracts from around the world is very supportive and adds to the citations from the authors' works.
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As for my reaction to andrographis (which I started alone at first): I am delighted. Yes, it can cause stomach upset - so go slowly - and it makes me much more tired. But I am resting better, sleeping better.
In other ways, too, I am amazed. Edema that was quite severe has nearly disappeared and pain is less. I've not had an injury-causing seizure since I began this - still some smaller ones but I don't hit the floor or flop around like a fish. (Zhang's protocol also stopped the seizures but funds did not permit me to continue. Buhner's protocol is much more affordable.)
Just yesterday, I started to sing again - and the voice is still there. I used to sing all the time (and still hope my hands will be able to get back to guitar). The singing is significant in that I had no voice for the longest of time - after a 2 month cough a couple years ago.
I have a very long way to go and I probably still won't be able to be around anyone over the holidays due to my tender ears - but there is hope that, if I continue to do everything right, change is coming.
You might go to his web site for additional comments.
posted
I'm glad you've had good luck with Andrographis, that's very encouraging. What dosage are you using?
From my perspective, what seems to be the most valuable and proven-to-be-efficacious herb from Zhang's protocol is artemisinin. I wouldn't buy it from hepapro though, when it seems to be available more cheaply from other sources (doctor's best). I will definitely be including this in a 3-day per week pulse fashion when I begin treating babesia with mepron or malarone.
I feel that a combination of antibiotics and herbs will offer a greater chance of success than either therapy alone. My main, specific purpose for creating this thread is to explore the utility of Buhner's core herbs (andrographis, cat's claw, japanese knotweed, and smilax (sarsaparilla).
Posts: 195 | From Manchester, CT | Registered: Jun 2008
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Keebler
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posted
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The dosage I am doing is in line with the recommendations in the book. There is an incremental increase each week at the beginning.
I had tried this herb, alone, at low dose long before I really did the protocol. It was not until I did the higher dose and then added other elements that it really was able to shine.
Regarding artemesinin, the Hepapro one is a formula and intended to be used as part of a protocol. Artemesinin is never to be used alone. So, if you purchase it elsewhere, be sure what else you need to guard against babesia creating resistance.
quote:Regarding artemesinin, the Hepapro one is a formula and intended to be used as part of a protocol. Artemesinin is never to be used alone. So, if you purchase it elsewhere, be sure what else you need to guard against babesia creating resistance.
Definitely, I was not planning to use it alone but as part of a multi-prong attack that would include either mepron / malarone and a macrolide, and maybe plaquenil as well.
Posts: 195 | From Manchester, CT | Registered: Jun 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
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Good to hear. I should have said this, too: I figured you probably covered all the bases but always like to mention that for any newcomers or to remind folks, just in case.
Buhner has a new approach to babesia, but it is on the web site - not in the book - incorporating Cryptolepis. This is just one reference to it at his site: http://tinyurl.com/6fa6lh
PubMed has 43 abstracts on Cryptolepis.
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[ 20. November 2008, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Funk -- you might look up monolaurin and oregano oil, about another 40 dollars. I believe you could add this as a third prong and attack biofilm as well. Good luck with buhners, I think he has some great ideas. Good luck...
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
I had great results with it. Look in the herbal links threads in my signature for more info (much of that discussion is a year or two old when I was compiling the thread more actively).
I don't think it always works- especially not for coinfections- a lot of people haven't had good luck with that, but its unsurprising.
I have a complicated story just like most of us- i have a serious mercury toxicity problem and anytime I do anything about it, I get sick again. So it's hard to say if some of my short relapses were Lyme or mercury related- they have identical symtpoms for me, tiredness and mental slowness and always accompanied something that involved the mercury (like chelating).
However, I got symptom-free with the protocol for a good while. I took antibotics for 6 months, then stopped, relapsed very badly, and then did just Buhner herbs and was right on track for the schedule he says works (the schedule of 8-12 month works for some- there's no absolutes in Lyme).
I started being symptom-free at month 5, had a couple of brief mercury-related relapses (due to dental work), was totally symptom-free for 5 more months, stopped or significantly reduced protocol, was symptom-free except for occasional 10 day relapses usually following chelation.
Then I got reinfected, and am back to square 1 with something I think is new.
I've tested liver enzymes throughout because I was also taking diflucan at times and because of the mercury stuff, and nothing was elevated by this protocol.
This summer I was reinfected and I tried parts of his emergency protocol- astragalus and the core protocol, but not the homeopathic stuff he suggests- and I got really ill anyway, but I also tried antibiotics immediately and it didn't prevent whatever it was from getting me sick again. It seems to be babesia, so it's not totally surprising that the antibiotics I took didn't work (I was using amoxy for the first couple weeks after the bite as that's what I had around)
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
Maria- I read a study where doxycycline was used as a preventive agent at 200mg daily for travelers spending time in malaria-endemic areas, and 47% of them were infected with malaria. I'll see if I can find it. Bottom line though, I would not expect doxycycline to prevent babesia infection or rule out babesia for that reason.
Posts: 195 | From Manchester, CT | Registered: Jun 2008
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MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Keebler, I had the same singing voice issue- Lyme made mine go away, I couldn't sing for years without losing my voice, and I thought it was vocal scar tissue- and it was such a nice surprise to have the voice come back after treatment!
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
Funkoddessey,
I changed my post while you were writing yours, because I remembered that I actually had taken amoxycillin/probenecid, which I don't think works very well for Lyme at the dosages I had, much less babesia. But that's really interesting and quite scary to hear about malaria- I know people who travel to malaria endemic areas and I know that artemesinin can't be used for prevention for various reasons, so it's scary to hear that about doxy. Lariam is often used but makes some people completely psychotic. Scary thing is it was developed for the military, which must have not enjoyed learning aobut the side effects in servicepeople.
Sorry about hijacking the original thread.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
I did much of the Buhner protocol along with abx -- I think it was a useful adjunct to antibiotics for my first year of treatment.
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