posted
I got my Bart pix back from Fry. Here it is...
Does this look like anybody elses? I looked around the web for similar, but couldn't find one. The pix I found had arrows pointing to tiny dark spots floating both inside and outside the cells. Nothing like the looped string thing I have.
There's also something in the cell above it, but it's not marked. Is that normal?
Leelee
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posted
Hmmmm. Mine looks different. I have little black dots in between the cells.
What was the explanation that Fry printed underneath your slide? Did it say it was suggestive of anything?
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posted
So it seems. I've Googled around and found some pix of bart (in a dog. woof!) that looked somewhat similar to mine, but not exactly (because it was a dog!).
I knew zero about all this when my LLMD gave me the results so I didn't know what to ask regarding the actual picture.
karenl
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posted
'this is suggestive of hemobartonella or mycoplasma." I have the same text but little black dots. You have no dots. You have to ask Fry, what happened to this slide. It also could be some color on the slide ?? It definitely is strange.I do not understand how it can be so dark blue.
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seekhelp
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It sounds like so many get this same interpretation from Fry. I want to get it done, but I really want specific info. Unlikely at this point it seems.
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posted
I saw that page, but never waited for it to cycle through the different images. Mine does look similar to the 3rd, but with a ton less bugs in it.
I wish they told you what it's a picture of. The first says it's Babs, but the others are unlabeled.
quote: "I think someone was even told by infectious disease doctor that these findings were artifacts, but don't quote me on that please".
Yeah, that's a typical ID duck explanation, and their solution to the dilema is to take anti-depressants. Those guys have to be the biggest idiots around!
Isn't it just freakin amazing that what they label as artifacts dissappear with babesia meds!
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posted
I am in the same boat as all of you and my smear looks exactly like the one posted, except I have about 7 cells with that ring. It was my infectious disease dr and pathologist who said that Fry uses alot more oil than normal and these were artifacts. After this, my infectious disease Dr told me to get a referral for a second opinion as he believes I have no infection.
I have been on azithromycin for a month now. My family and girlfriend think that I am improving but it is very very slow. I also have chronic gastritis and a small hiatal hernia.. so I don't know if those cause problems in addition. Seems all my problems are caused by nerve inflammation.
If you are seeing an alternative DR I dont think they know the right questions to ask Fry. I had an alternative dr talk to him on the phone and they simply just recommended an antibiotic but really no explanation of anything else.
I know many get better on the biaxin/plaquenil combo, and now daraprim.
I have some more test results coming back this upcoming week, and my primary care doctor is going to call and ask questions about the bug. Otherwise I am going to drive out and see Dr fry again so I can possibly get on stronger meds. If he is going to offer PCR I will get that test done too, since I have learned that healthy people have this ring show up in their blood.
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springshowers
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Check out this huge long page of sample smear results.
Is it possible that Dr. Fry, who is an MD who treats patients, and is a microbiologist with years of lab experience, knows a bit about preparing slide samples and selecting the right emulsions for diagnostic microscopy?
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Hoosiers51
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Yes, yours does look like that third pic.
I remember reading somewhere that the lab was saying they found a parasite in some patients, and then something else that almost everyone has.
Is that correct? Maybe yours is the parasite that only some people have?
I would call the lab and ask what the one thing is with the arrow pointing to it.
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Hoosiers51
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Yes, yours does look like that third pic.
I remember reading somewhere that the lab was saying they found a parasite in some patients, and then something else that almost everyone has.
Is that correct? Maybe yours is the parasite that only some people have?
I would call the lab and ask what the one thing is with the arrow pointing to it.
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CherylSue
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Check into babesia. It looks like a parasite. Babesia has half loops in the cells, too.
My guess, CherylSue
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Lymeorsomething
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It blows when you get these tests and then have to guess what the pathogen is...
I ran this test recently too. I hope that I don't need a score card to figure it out
I'll try to share the results sometime soon...
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posted
Wow, how was the doctor able to get the actual slide from Fry?
I plan to ask my doctor if other pathologists or microbiologists have reviewed these slides.
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FRY Labs is CLIA certified and they must pass Proficiency Testing.
There is no way that all of these positive smears are full of artifacts.
Of course, artifacts do occur and some techs are better at reading smears. It just doesn't seem right that so many smears with "artifacts" look so much alike.
My doctor is correlating his positive Fry smears with Intracellular Pathogens Research Laboratory College of Veterinary Medicine, North Carolina State University, Raleigh, NC. It is run by Dr. Edward Breitschwerdt.
We all want to know what this is and why we are sick. I am also amazed at the "mystery" surrounding this.
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treepatrol
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seekhelp
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posted
Once the mystery bug(s) are identified, will Dr. F then provide an updated analysis at no charge since so many of your blood smears have no true interpretation?
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posted
Dr Fry shipped the lab to my doctor through my insurance. I am not getting the slide back and shipping it to a dr/lab on the east coast to see what he thinks.
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kitty9309: ("Also, "hypoplastic erythrocytes" were observed.")
My son's says the same thing! What the heck does that mean? I looked up all the words and it looks like they are saying underdeveloped red blood cells?? Did you dr give you an explanation?
Also both my boys tests say the same as everyone elses. Bartonella or Mycoplasma. But they both tested highly positive at Lab Corp for Mycoplasma. So I am confused!
-------------------- My lyme disease blog: http://lymetimes3.blogspot.com/ One BIG Lyme family! I tested CDC + 10/08 My mom Igenex + 11/08 & My brother Igenex + 4/09, My 2 boys some + & IND bands, clinical diagnosis 3/09 (youngest has Aspergers too) Posts: 470 | From Painesville, Ohio | Registered: Mar 2009
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So are you saying that Fry released the slide for another doc's appraisal?
Also keep in mind, the more that smear is read and oil applied, the quality will decrease. We do proficiency smears in the micro lab and the older and more used the slide is, it is very hard to discern what you are seeing.
Amy C:
I cannot get a good grip on what hypoplastic erythrocytes means. When I do a search, Aplastic Anemia comes up.
The inside of the RBC's are totally clear with a crisp edge to them. Normal RBC's are thinner in the center, but it is a gradual fade out of the pigment- more of a faint fuzzy look.
I am still looking around for the answer...
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Leelee
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posted
Hi kitty,
Thank you for the Galaxydx.com link. I signed up for their email list.
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They won't be up and running human samples too soon, but it is in the works.
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seekhelp
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posted
My ID Doc is doing a regular blood smear at a commercial lab/hospital. I'll be interested to see what comes back. Fry seems to always find stuff. I wonder if this lab will? THey are taking 12+ slides, particularly looking for Babesia.
I was told there are only 25-30 organisms that could show up on a blood smear. If clean, I'm not sure I continue to buy into Babesia/Bartonella. We'll see.
I was told finding Ab on lab work means nothing if not on the smear. I don't have antibodies even though!
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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We have been all over the problem of interpretation of the smears from Fry in post after post in this forum
The smears are ordered by doctors.It is absolutely rediculous if they do not provide a sensible comment.If they believe that the things found mean anything they should contact the lab and in case that does not bring clarity , state labs etc. Gale
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Keebler
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posted
-
The cell here has been stained red, but see the loop . . . looks similar.
The cell indicated by the arrow contains a reddish, ringlike structure, which is called a Cabot's ring.' Cabot's rings may be it the form of partial loops, loops, or figure eights.
Their origin is not known and they may be artifacts. They are also rare. Cabot's ring; may be present in lead poisoning, pernicious anemia, thalassemia and other severe anemias.
==========
From a link that kitty9309 just posted this - with many photos:
I was going to put here but...
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seekhelp
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posted
I agree 100% Gale. If a doc's not going to pursue this further, but recommends you drop a cool $300 you don't have to get a blood smear, why bother?
It's a pretty picture for your wall maybe, but I want concrete results. That's why I shell out $$$. Not to hear...could be/indicate of/resembles/remotely seems like this or that.
There's no guarantees with science and I realize this, but it sounds like endless results are being spit out like this.
My ID doc enlightened me y-day and told me all physicians are required to learn how to effectively read blood smears so there's no excuse.
I'll never know overall percentages, but I believe if a lab is producing 50%, 60%, 80%+ patients w/only this pathogen (or whatever it is) in their smear and can't identify it, they need to stop collecting money until able to do so. It's disheartening to a sick person to hear another mystery. Or as I said before, go back for FREE and ID the bugs when you know more. Either is acceptable in my eyes.
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We have been all over this subject one year ago in one of the longest threads in this forum.
The patients with Dr Fry now report that he has finally id-ed the pathogenes which are quite different from what was earlier reported.
It makes no sense for a bunch of amatuers like us to discuss about the identity
For those with a smear finding I recommend that the ordering doctor finds out- and if he cant He should go ask the state lab- the CDc or whatever.
Gale
[ 06-10-2009, 04:15 AM: Message edited by: galehane ]
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disturbedme
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posted
CT - I know how you feel. Supposedly now even the Bartonella smear from Fry is not even Bartonella anymore and is this "mystery bug". It's really irritating, especially for someone who's never gotten a positive lyme test but was holding on to this Bartonella test with everything she had as finally an answer and then they go and take even that away from her. Very unfair and awful. So, I really know how you feel and how confusing and angering this whole process is.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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springshowers
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I would assume that patients who have this test done have a doctor who supports them and who did the ordering of the test.
Therefore I would assume that each persons doctor should know what they ordered and can explain it to their patients.
I think that the doctors are the ones to go to and who should be able to give you the information about the test and what it means.
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springshowers
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disturb
May I ask you when your test was done??
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There has not been a single report about ordering doctors who could tell their patients what the smear findings meant (except Fry himselfm of course).
Gale
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springshowers
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That is interesting. Forgive me if I am wrong.
But I have chatted with a couple people on the forum who had their doctor order the test for them. When ti came back the doctor was the one who went over the test with them and I even recall them saying that their doctor got on the phone with him to get an accurate interpretation and medications recommendations.
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disturbedme
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Springshowers
quote:disturb
May I ask you when your test was done??
That test was done at least a year ago. Why?
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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springshowers
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posted
Disturb.
The reason I asked was, as research has come up with new information over time, it seems that the description on the result has changed too. It has not changed in a major way but is something we should keep in mind.
Also ...remember that the lab uses these tests as research.
It says right on the test that is is to be used for research only.
I do not think people should be negative or get upset at the lab for not having all the answers when they are only offering those tests through their own research and in trying to get more information about what they see in order to Help us.
It makes not sense to me when I see people talking so negatively. I understand the want to know more. Obviously the lab does too as it continues to research.
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Lymeorsomething
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Well, standardized tests are continually lambasted for good reason so we can't just grant immunity to labs because they are lyme-friendly.
If people are paying a lot of money, especially out of pocket, you can't blame them for their frustration at times.
I think everyone here appreciates Fry and their work but there is nothing wrong with questioning at times (even by us novices).
In fact, I have a smear pending with Fry and I hope it sheds light on why I have felt like hell for over 2 years...
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springshowers
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I sure hope so too Lymeorsomething.
But if your tests hows something on the smear, are you expecting it to be identifiable?
I have not heard that the lab can do that at this time but are always working towards that.
I am confused by what people are saying.
Yes we all want the answers but it seems some people expect them if they order this test. And his smear test is part of ongoing research.
If you order it you have to assume that you will have to wait for answers about it.
The PCR and list of blood tests that he provides do give answers and tells you if you have Babesia or not or Bartonella or not.
But the Smear test is not a promise of anything. It is the theory that the lab believes there is something missed out there and in us that keeps us sick. They are looking to ID it and can only tell you if your blood shows it or not.
Thats it at this point. Sometimes we hear new things as research can take you through twists and turns. Of course the hope is for a full ID of the pathogen and then of course a treatment plan.
Until then i surely hope that the lab gets continued support for the great work they do...
I hope that makes sense and helps some people who may not have really known that about the smear test. I have seen people say somethings and act in a manner that indicates tome that they did not or do not understand the research element of the Lb.
Good Luck and . Of course we are all hoping for new and more information soon... Of course..
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"I hope that makes sense and helps some people who may not have really known that about the smear test. I have seen people say somethings and act in a manner that indicates tome that they did not or do not understand the research element of the Lb."
I suppose that describes my "say something and act ina ..." and I must say that I simply dont aggree with you, except that we all wish for an identification.
However 1.There is no way to know that the smears are for research only when you order it. 2..There is no way to know that the lab was sceptical about the Identifications that follow the report,(although some has obviously been very very strange- mycoplasma- cant be stained).Leave aside Babesia. 3.There is no way to know that the identification Dr Fry presents in public- interviews and presents in conferences (Kansas) is problematic.
From Fry`s foundation
"We believe and have evidence to show that most inflammatory diseases are caused by a common infectious organism. With additional funding we plan to determine the genetics and growth characteristics of this pathogen. We then need to prove the prevalence of this pathogen to the medical community"
P.S.You talk about a pcr.From Frylabs?
Gale
[ 06-15-2009, 04:30 AM: Message edited by: galehane ]
Posts: 268 | From europe | Registered: May 2008
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posted
FYI - I have this same finding. I had an outside pathologist look at it and he said it was babesia. I am going to follow up and get some more tests through Igenix and Clongen now to be sure. I see gains from taking artesunate. I think it is babesia.
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CherylSue
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Chronic Thia...'s slide doesn't look like bartonella which from what I read from Dr. S's book on bartonella which is a bunch of dots clinging to the outside of the cell.
CT's picture looks like Dr. S's book on BABESIA. Babesia has little parasites in the cell like half moons, crosses, etc.
IMO, CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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CherylSue
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posted
I had live blood microscopy done and a video made of it. I didn't see bartonella. However, the naturopath said I had big time mycoplasma, but to me it looks like it could be babesia with all those rings and half rings in my cells. Babesia would be consistent with my symptoms.
In addition, after 18 mos. of treatment I'm still struggling. I've recently done malarone for babs. I'm herxing all right.
Let's hope this is the key to wellness.
I think blood smears,etc. at least tells you what you are fighting. It's expensive, but worth it, IMO.
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
I know that these people claim that they can see Mycoplasma with a phase contrast scope, but they really can't. Myco is too small to be seen at that magnification.
I had it done many years ago myself when I was searching for answers, and the lady showed me a video of all the cells that she said were infected with myco....they were the ones with all the spiky points around the perimeter. That is just an interpretation of what they think is causing that condition, but there are other things that can cause such cell abnormalities.
I don't believe that Babesia can be seen without staining either. If it could, labs wouldn't waste so much of their time doing it.
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springshowers
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posted
Anyone posted any of the new tests done by F Labs? The ones that show the biofilm?
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