Topic: A little talked about Co-infection you should be aware of
lymebytes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11830
posted
In recent months I have had an intolerable increase in overall symptoms.
My stomach was bubbly and bowels not normal, although not anything to be alarmed about.
A few months went by, I was in misery. My stomach continued to be in turmoil and I started having "allergic" reactions to more and more foods. It seemed many foods made my symptoms worse. Between Jan '09 and now I lost 30 lbs., I didn't need to lose and I was worried.
I pumped up the probiotics with no effect. I started to worry about C.diff and posted here and got many wise opinions on C.diff.
My doctor did tests and believe it or not it was H.pylori. Now, I didn't have cramping or really typical signs of H.pylori, just my symptoms were worse and so many foods were hard to tolerate and the weight loss.
My LLMd (well known) said, "This is basically a co-infection that can be miserable." He wasn't kidding. I have now treated it for a couple of weeks and I can tell things are starting to heal in my intestines. I will treat it for a couple of months and be re-tested.
I now can also eat fairly normally without the symptoms-flare as before.
I just wanted to make you all aware of this possibility if things get worse and you aren't sure why. I thought of yeast, C.diff, parasites, I was at a loss. I am happy my LLMd knew what to test for.
If foods seem to increase symptoms and you are finding you are cutting more and more foods out, ask for h.pylori testing. I will warn you that the test can produce false negatives though.
It really has been a miserable, stealthy infection I would have never guessed was causing so much chaos.
canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Did you treat with clarithromycin + amoxc
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged |
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
wow...have to look this up.
seems sometimes the cure is worse than the bite huh?
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Like lyme, H. Pylori is also caused by a spirochetal bacteria. And, yes, it also has a stealth nature.
That may be part of the reason it took so long for doctors to realize this as the primary cause for ulcers (that are not caused by some caustic medicines).
The poor Australian doctor who discovered H. Pylori was treated terribly by others in the medical profession for many years right after his discovery. Although he was correct, he was quite literally ostracized and humiliated by the medical profession around the world.
Doctors just could not wrap their head around a bacteria causing an ulcer - sounds familiar.
And, as you say, it's MUCH more miserable - and complex - than one might think. Again, first thought to have a fairly quick abx course, now we know it takes longer. Again, sounds familiar to other spirochetes.
canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
I tested positive for it (before I found out I had Lyme)
and they put me on 1000mg amoxcicillan and 1000mg clarithromycin.
OMG I thought I was gonna die.
I was herxing (didn't even know what a herx was)
I went to the hospital because I thought I overdosed(had no idea)
I stopped those 2 abx's 10 days in.
Now I wish I would have stayed with it. although my LLMD would have ramped up to that dosage.
But oh my.
I think it took care of H Pylori too. Cuz I later had an upper GI done and they said no sign of h pylori.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged |
lymebytes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11830
posted
When I had H.pylori years ago and treated twice per day with 1000mg of Amoxi w/500mg Biaxin w/PPI (Nexium, Prevacid, etc.) it worked very well.
So, I asked for the same treatment. I am treating again w/the same thing..but this time he wants me to add Flagyl,(I am hesitating because I have yet to do Flagyl) Flagyl is a great h.pylori killer (also in combo w/other abx) and they are finding that Biaxin is in 20% cases not working due to resistance of the bacteria.
Now after studying H.pylori pretty extensively, believe it or not Pepto Bismol has h.pylori killing power, but it should be taken w/other abx.
Here is a link that talks about most ALL the different treatments for it (scroll down a ways when you get there): http://www.wdxcyber.com/ngen11.htm
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- It's the bismuth in Pepto Bismol and that can be obtained in other ways, too, so all the additives and colors of Pepto can be best left outside of a human being.
Since strong doses of bismuth by itself can be dangerous, it's really important to have a good doctor's guidance. But it's possible to do this safely and leave the "pink" behind. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
The most interesting post ill ever have please read:
My father is a very distinguished gastroenterologist who was instrumental in the finding and treatment of hpylori. the deserved credit and nobel prize went to his friend and partner Marshal who ingested the bacteria in order to prove that ulcers are often caused by this. with marshals insight my dad pushed to have the new information put out. he also started a company (now sold) that came out with the first tests for hpylori. Both marshal any my father discovered and marketed a great thing helping in all probability millions of people.
On a not so funny side not to the story: the same man, my father, doesnt believe in cronic lyme and says its all a bunch of bull$hit even though his son has been very sick for months. Amazing isnt it?
-------------------- sick since 9-09 igg, 18,23,41 reactive igm, 41 reactive Posts: 436 | From Kansas City | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
i brought up how it was weird that a guy who went against the "status quo" on treatment of a bacterial infection now wont even listen to the idea of cronic lyme. he told me h.pylori is treatable with two weeks antibiotcs.
-------------------- sick since 9-09 igg, 18,23,41 reactive igm, 41 reactive Posts: 436 | From Kansas City | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- JunkYardWily,
Thanks for your note. Sorry your father cannot understand and believe you.
Back to the H. Pylori, very interesting, indeed, and sad that your father did not get the credit he deserved for his part in the discovery.
Thinking back to when I had an ulcer in 1976, I was told to drink one cup of half-and-half EVERY hour. That was it. Oh, watch spicy foods but that was all. I gained a lot of weight, got so ill that I lost my job and life went down hill from there.
Now we know that lactic acid makes ulcers worse but, most important, the infection has to be thoroughly treated if that is the cause.
However, I had been on lots of NSAIDS for pain. No one every told me to stop those. So, it's hard to know the cause of my ulcer but, clearly, I received horrendous medical care all the way around - a foreshadowing of what was to come with lyme and coinfections.
Oh, JunkYardWily, on the father anecdotes, lyme + co. brought me hyperacusis and sound-triggered seizures. Lamenting sadness over the inability to go out for a walk anywhere there is traffic due partly to never knowing when a delivery vehicle will sound their "back-up beeping system" I mentioned this to my father.
It was he who was responsible for that system. As an accident attorney, it was a landmark case of his (sadly, a wrongful death suit from a construction site fatality) that resulted in the (uh, word choice) . . . coming about . . . of the alarm beeps on vehicles.
To me, they cause me undue pain and injury. To my dad, he could only see how they could save others' lives and did not even get the irony of how it made mine worse. I was only sharing an "Oy, Vey!" sort of moment, of course, completely understanding the need of the alarm beeps but what an odd turn of events to my own personal sensory alarm system, so to speak.
But, similar to a doctor not understanding how a son or daughter can be affected other than exactly how they saw things, my Dad never understood the twist of fate danger that sounds are to my life when the same sounds save others' lives.
Perhaps, had he ever been able to understand what lyme can do, he might have been able to see. Funny how otherwise brilliant and learned professionals in one area are blind to so much around them - even if of a similar nature.
Even more perplexing is a frequent lack of desire for many to even take a look outside of their familiar area. I will likely never understand why my father would not even open the lyme book I sent him. Looking it up in some medical book that defined lyme as "no big deal" was enough research for a man who went to great lengths to find the exact cause in other investigations regarding accidents.
It must be very difficult to understand why if your father searched for truth about one spirochete that he can't even be open to learning about another.
lymebytes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11830
posted
Lymetoo - that's my fear, the Flagyl cyst-busting in the midst of just starting to feel a little bit better - ugh, I am so not ready.
Keebler - you brought up a point I forgot to mention. I take NSAID's everyday for pain. They can cause H.pylori. NSAID's can affect the mucus lining of the stomach, causing ulcers.
Interestingly, I was on Nexium (per my pain management Md) for about a year before this all started and I did ok. I stopped Nexium thinking I'd be fine and all hell broke loose.
My LLMd knows that ibuprofen for me helps the pain - I've tried them all, morphine, oxycontin, vicodin, nothing works like ibuprofen oddly enough. So, in conclusion - he put me on Prevacid this time and I will stay on it as long as I am on NSAID's.
Long term use of PPI's have their own problems with causing vitamin deficiencies such as D, B12 etc., so I will supplement, I have been anyway.
And around and around we go, where it will stop nobody knows!
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- lymebytes,
I'm confused about something in your last note. You said: " . . .I take NSAID's everyday for pain. They can cause H.pylori. NSAID's can affect the mucus lining of the stomach, causing ulcers. . . . " end quote ----
My understanding is not that NSAIDs can cause H. Pylori (they can't as that is a spirochetal bacteria). However, NSAIDs can cause an ulcer, as you said. It's just that they can't cause infection, directly.
An stomach ulcer can have at least two causes, caustic stuff in the stomach (certain medicines like NSAIDs and aspirin - or alcohol, maybe colas) . . . and infection. Perhaps there are other causes but, although NSAIDs don't cause the H. Pylori infection, they can still certainly eat a hole in a stomach causing a different kind of ulcer requiring different treatment.
NSAIDs, while most known for being caustic to the stomach lining, are not the only drugs to have this effect, though. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
lymebytes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11830
posted
Hi Keebler, I see what you are saying and I do agree, but it seems the 2 go hand in hand somehow, there is a link.
My LLMd believes because I stopped Nexium that the NSAID's caused the mucus lining to change, therefore h.pylori resulted. My pain management Md insisted since I was on ibuprofen I stay on PPI's - I didn't take the warning seriously and stopped on my own. He warned of peptic ulcers, oddly H.pylori can cause that. It does get confusing.
From my studies I have found H.pylori is technically not a spirochete, H. pylori is a helix-shaped (classified as a curved rod, not spirochaete) bacteria. This was found under "Microbiology" here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.pylori
PPI's can prevent H.pylori (because apparently stomach acid plays a roll too) and Prevacid is one of them that claims it can heal the ulcers caused by H.pylori while still using NSAID's.
It sounds like a "perfect storm" comes together, especially in cases where nsaid's are used without PPI protection.
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Thanks for sharing your personal stories Keebler & JunkYark... Interesting stuff about human nature.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
Amanda
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14107
posted
I took something called a "Helidac Pac". It was a combination of tetracycline, flagyl, and peptobismol tablets, 4 times a day for 14 days.
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[dizzy]](graemlins/dizzy.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic