posted
I have read postings on the WB bands, but there is soooo much info. B-in-law shows positive for Band 41. Has fatigue and joint pain. Is this Lyme? Thanks
Posts: 386 | From Southeastern PA | Registered: Oct 2007
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sutherngrl
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posted
Lyme Disease is a "clinical" diagnosis!!!
The test are used to back up that diagnosis.
Band 41 alone does not prove LD, but is usually the first band to show up in LD.
A good LLMD will treat based on "clinical" symptoms.
Sometimes after a few months of treatment, the test will become more positive and therefore back up the clinical diagnosis.
Fatigue and joint pain are symptoms of LD.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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Pinelady
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posted
It is possible.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
So band 41 isn't a lock for BB?
Posts: 386 | From Southeastern PA | Registered: Oct 2007
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littlebit27
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posted
Band 41 was my first and so far only one positive but my symptoms are off the charts Lyme and probably at least bart. I tested positive for ehriclia so I know at least some of the symptoms could be that.
Hoosiers51
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Member # 15759
posted
Band 41 is not specific for bb.
Could still be Lyme, but the presence of band 41 does not seal the deal, unfortunately. He would be smart to look seriously into Lyme, but also look into other causes. Try retesting after provoking it with antibacterial agents (drugs or maybe herbs?).
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
What are the bands that are specific to BB?
Posts: 386 | From Southeastern PA | Registered: Oct 2007
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Hoosiers51
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posted
The Igenex LLMD gave a presentation recently and he stated the ones that are specific.
I'm going from memory here:
31, 34, 39, 83-93.
I can't recall....but I think he excluded 18, and I think he INCLUDED 23.
I will do some more searching. There is a slide from a presentation this same phsycian gave that listed the specific bands. I will find it and post it here for you.
This doctor did not include a lot of the bands Dr. C claims show high Lyme probability. So keep that in mind. These are only the LYME SPECIFIC ones we are talking about, not the ones that some doctors say show Lyme "probability."
I also have a graph that is helpful that I will post here.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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Hoosiers51
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On slide 79, the specific bb bands are the third bullet point, where it says, "Highly specific markers for Lyme disease."
So it's 23-25, 31, 34, 39, and 83-93. I'm pretty sure it was those 5 bands that he listed in his more recent presentation, as Lyme specific.
When you are looking at the graph on page 78: Look at band 41. Although you'll see that over 85% of people with known Lyme test positive for band 41, you'll also see that over 40% of the NORMAL population test positive for it.
For the bands that are Lyme specific, you'll see on the graph that the blue Lyme bar is high, and the pale yellow "Normal" bar is very low.
You can see that 18 is statistically associated with Lyme, so I"m not sure why it isn't listed as a specific Lyme band in Dr. H's list. Maybe it's because he does know of something else that causes 18 to show up. I dunno. Things like 41, 66, and 58, are known to not be very specific.
Doesn't mean he doesn't have Lyme. You just gotta know the facts. Igenex will likely be a much more accurate Western Blot than a regular lab like LabCorp. More bands can show up later on in treatment.
31 in it's true sense is Lyme-specific, but my understanding is that if a viral antibody "folds over," it can look like 31 on the Western Blot, so that's why if 31 is positive (and not much else), you should get the Band 31 confirmation test from Igenex to ensure it was really band 31 and not viral.
All these things can be learned by listening to Dr. H's presentations. That's my "source" of this info. Hope it helps.
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dmc
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posted
I have posted this before
Yale says don't pay attention to band 41 because it means nothing. Yet they have patented a test for lyme that only uses band 41. They also claim the test is over 94% accurate.
Also in this link, page 5 at the top right, one paragraph down, Dr . Alan Steere says that if you have band 41 this means that you either have gum disease, syphilis or Lyme disease.
He also states that you can tell the difference between these illnesses by a clinical diagnoses. All the lymies have band 41 but few people produce many other bands.
-------------------- Stephanie, University Student.
Ehrlichia [POSITIVE] IGG/IGM AB [H] 1.49 indexLyme AB interp. EIA [A] POSITIVE IGG P93 AB [PRESENT] IGG P41 AB [PRESENT] IGM P41 AB [PRESENT] IGM P23 AB [PRESENT] Lyme IGM WB interp. [A] [PRESENT] Posts: 145 | From Idaho | Registered: Feb 2010
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2roads
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posted
Hoosiers,
That was very interesting...the presentation from Igenex you posted.
Here's what I don't get.
Why do they call the kettle black but then say it is not? Is that to cover their back end because of too many positives? I mean, my son has IgG 41 (not too signif) but also IgG equivocal 39. IgM only 41.
If 39 is no doubt lyme how can they or Dr. B say you need two or more lines to be pos, and a faint line does not even count?
Dr. J says any alone or in combo is indicative.
Confused...as usual....
2roads
Posts: 2214 | From West Chester, PA | Registered: Aug 2003
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2roads
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posted
up
Posts: 2214 | From West Chester, PA | Registered: Aug 2003
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Annie C
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posted
#41 Flagella or tail. This is how Borrelia burgdorferi moves around, by moving the flagella. Many bacteria have flagella. This is the most common borreliosis antibody.
This indicates that some kind of bacteria was in this person. The only way the tail is there is because the bacteria was there first.
When I had my first Lyme test called the ELISA which showed I had a High Level of flafella. The diagnosis HOWEVER stated that I had been exposed to a prior infection. So they tried to tell me that I did not have a currant one. Cuz it was too early to tell cuz I had been bitten 9 days before the test. That was April 1999. And I R still kickin and I don't need names! Cuz I won't remember their names any way.
Also "Experience" is better than any advice. Just ask my kids. They are now 27 and 25 and they know EVERYTHING.
I'm not a Dr. I am a Lyme patient with huge acceptance. I also had to lower my expectations of my family. Guess who isn't disappointed? Moi! yup me. With this disease you find out early on who your friends are. And then your new friends which are here.
-------------------- May God Bless you every day. And Never say never and do not give up no matter what. We need you to help others. Posts: 1288 | From Tetons Wyoming | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
The doc at Igenex told my doc that because I have band 41 only, I should still be considered to have Lyme.
So, she started treating me. She was concerned before she talked with him, and then VERY confident after.
I just participated in a research study for a new test that is similar to the t-cell test they are doing in europe. I hope the study goes well and that the test becomes available, because it sounds REALLY promising.
Posts: 564 | From Tick Hell | Registered: Oct 2008
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karenl
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posted
There are other flagellas which elevate band 41 not only lyme:
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