IgG � Igenex Positive; CDC/NYS Negative with 31+; 39 (IND); 41++; 58+ Posts: 339 | From Tennessee | Registered: Jun 2010
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janet thomas
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7122
posted
41 is a tricky band
it is often the first band to appear in lyme
however, it is a non specific band and could be from normal mouth spirochetes
best to go by symptoms
-------------------- I am not a doctor and this is not medical advice but only my personal experience and opinion. Posts: 2001 | From NJ | Registered: Mar 2005
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Did he schedule you a return appt? That is likely when you will get your results. Was for us.
And don't be disappointed if the results even on Igenex aren't conclusive - mine weren't, but were indicative of Lyme.
Timing is all important to get the clearest results, but the little buggars won't post their calendar for us to know "when"!
I just don't want you to pin all your hopes on a stupid test - Dr K felt like what you are dealing with is Lyme enough to test - so be it!
Now focus on waging war on the enemy!
Posts: 238 | From Jackson, TN | Registered: Mar 2010
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
From various sources
From METALLIC BLUE http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/89066#000071 Additionally, 41kd is a crucial spirocettal protein. Whether it's Lyme or not is speculative, but we know for sure if you show 41 on more than one test, the probability is "extremely" high that you do have some form of spirochete. It is well known that not all spirochetes cause Lyme Disease, but it's also known that human beings only contract a few known spirochete infections. There are three families of which include: Brachyspiraceae, Leptospiraceae, and Spirochaetaceae.
Take a guess: Which family is known to carry pathogenic infectious pathogens? If you said all three, you're correct. Out of all of these families each include species that are pathogenic to human beings or other mammals. There are many we have yet to discover.
So, if you have 41kd, and you can reproduce those results on more than one test, the probability increases dramatically that not only are you carrying one of those families, but that if you're demonstrating a wide spread systemic illness, 41kd is likely connected to it. If you've run a battery of tests, and covered all typical basis with an infectious disease specialist, and they can't confirm where that 41kd is coming from, you ought to be even more presumptuous of pathogenic infection.
This is where Brain SPECT scans come in. You can also perform MRI testing, however the likelyhood is only about 15% on average that find evidence. You begin the search of circumstantial evidence. Most people -- if they can afford it -- can find evidence of infection. Using western blots prior to antibiotics, and about 6 weeks "during" antibiotics can demonstrate a profound change in antibody titers and bands have a greater probability of showing up. This is a result of the infectious agent dying, releasing protein antigens that make their way into the blood stream and lymph system where the body can attempt to destroy and or remove them. In the process of doing so, antibodies quickly form to mount an attack. The body can't tell the difference between organic or inorganic material. The result is a clearer response to an infection that was likely hiding in tissues out of reach of the immune system while it was alive.
The following two reports by Allen Steere and Yale state that if a person has band 41 (or flagellin), Lyme symptoms, and they do not have severe periodontal disease or syphilis, they have Lyme borreliosis:
1) Allen Steere in 1986, when he developed the first CDC Method to diagnose Lyme, recommended: '' Perform serial Western Blots to look for changing and expanding IgM and IgG antibodies,'' since Lyme is a borrelisis, a relapsing fever, and the changing antibodies is a reflection of the varying antigens- and that, THIS CHANGING phenomenon means ``the spirochete remains alive throughout the illness.''
In that full text report, Steere said one can distinguish between Lyme and syphilis, when one only sees band 41 (anti-flagellar antibody) in a person complaining of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or Fibromyalgia.
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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The number of people exposed is in the millions. The reason you can't get treated is they have decided that only early disease merits diagnosis and treatment. The bacterium itself is the most bizarre human bacterial pathogen known, and is poorly understood.
They don't know how many people are carrying a permanent relapsing brain infection. you can't get diagnosis or treatment because they have to pretend it doesn't exist and use labels like 'post lyme' and 'CFS' etc. for those who manifest illness.
Look at what Steere did in his 1992 study which is the foundation for the CDC serodiagnostic standard. He and others often look back on this and refer to a 'normal' control, but in fact the control was taken from sick people...MS sufferers, CFS sufferers, in sum, conditions which could have been caused or complicated by late Bb infection. Moreover, he threw in 25 syphilitic patients which constituted 20% of the control. Hoever, syphilis itself has an annual US incidence of 3 per 100,000.
This statistical chicanery, which fudged the result at 41 kDa on Bb blot by many multiples, is significant, because syph serum will cross react at 41 kDa to Bb western blots. It allowed them to 'swift boat' the importance of the reaction to 41 kDa, which is the earliest and most consistent human ab response to Bb infection, being present in all stages as opposed to the rest of the proteins which are variably expressed according to stage, tissue type, even temperature.
Flagellin {41kDa} is necessary for Bb to survive under all conditions, and is constantly expressed, including in late CNS infection. Yet they chose to swift-boat this response.
Why? It's for political and economic reasons. telling the truth about diagnosis and treatment results in mass panic and probable economic collapse/political revolution. it's likely a bioweapon. North American disease is different from European disease...lack of CSF antibodies, for instance.
A much larger range of serum resistance to host species in wild{allows Bb to infect a much wider range of species, important in disease spread and maintenance in wild}. The CDC has found that Bb 31 goes intracellular in CNS cells.
Telling the truth threatens the careers and livelihoods of the very individuals who control this issue and who have actively lied and deceived and otherwise operated a scientific propaganda campaign for the past 15+ years, profitting from the campaign as they went.
Lyme disease, which in the US also perhaps includes other pathogens notably a bioweaponized bartonella, threatens the entire establishment. If late disease was rare, we'd be able to get treatment. Unfortunately, the EIS/CDC,DOD totally screwed this up and tried to make money off of the disease, making profitability their first priority as opposed to protecting the health of americans.
Think about this...Allen Steere wouldn't listen to Polly Murray in early 90's when she reported a big incidence of neuropsychiatric disease in lyme. She had to call Fallon. Now, Fallon has overwhelming evidence of a serious disabling relapsing brain condition which is not easily treated.
Global hypoperfusion on spect/pet ain't normal folks. Don't you think the CDC etc. should be breaking their balls trying to figure it out? Instead, we see nothing at all, only continued attempts to deny illness and obstruct treatment.
Obviously, they know what is going on, and have determined that the best course is to do nothing, to cover up, knowing that in doing so, they are condemning large numbers of people to perpetual diagnostic and treatment hell.
Think about it. It's a horrific scandal and I'm not sure how much longer these *******s can keep control of it.
***NOT written by Lymetoo....
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96220 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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littlebit27
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24477
posted
My Igenex results were back in less than 10 days. My appt. wasn't until 2 months later-but my LLMD's office still sent my paperwork.
Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
I am guessing 41 was what was trying to come through on my first test in 07. The lab just failed to pull it out.
I challenged to get a positive so don't think just because you do not have many bands you are negative.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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the doc does want to re-test after we have had the abx (challenged)... so my question is...because I have read conflicting statements...
Do we need to discontinue the abx before testing? Continue the abx at testing?
If discontinue... how long before retest?
I know I need to ask the doc (have sent message to the office) but I do value your experienced minds!!!!
Posts: 238 | From Jackson, TN | Registered: Mar 2010
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Seems like I've heard it both ways. One of the reasons I chose my LLMD was because of his knowledge of testing issues. He had me stay on antibiotics. Kind of surprised me but I totally trust him.
Others are told to go off. Maybe it doesn't matter that much? I don't know all the reasons that the challenge helps convert negatives to positives but I think partly it wakes up the immune system and also breaks up immune complexes but don't quote me on that. Maybe someone else will come along that knows more about it.
Terry I'm not a doctor
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
My LLMD, haven't never treated anyone who was sero-negative, called Igenex and talked to their doctor. Their conversation made her VERY confident that she could/should treat me, even though band 41 was all that I had.
Posts: 564 | From Tick Hell | Registered: Oct 2008
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