I am all for free speech, but this crossed the line. I don't feel a 6th grader is able to make an educated opinion about the war one way or the other...

I did a little research into this and it looks like the teacher filled the kids heads with ideas about the Iraq war and then after planting these ideas, asked them to write letters to the soldiers.

It's sad that a public school employee is allowed to fill our children's heads with such biased opinions and then use our children as messengers to try and get his views across...sad indeed.

I have no objection to a teacher harboring ill feelings toward our soldiers or the war...but this teacher is there to teach our children facts...NOT give them his opinions about politics.

Thank God I live in a small community where this type of BS would not be tolerated.

I wrote the NYP an email to see if I could get the soldiers address, so I can get our school to send him and his fellow soldiers some letters from home...Letters from children that are not laced with a teacher's hate.

LymeBrat

great idea lymebrat.that is true patriotism...

gary

I know what you mean...I have a few choice words I'd like to say about this teacher as well! But I won't... even though I could exercise my right of freedom of speech, I will show more respect than this teacher did...

Just because we have the freedom to say (or write) something, doesn't mean we should..

My son wants to be a Green Beret when he grows up. Being an Army Brat of a father who served 20 years in the Army, I'm not thrilled with the idea, but I know it has to be his choice.

And even though I may not like it, I will support him if it is what he truly wants to do.

My son has been writing letters to soldiers for the past year. He is only 8 years old. He got the idea from my dad, who mentioned how hard it was to be in Korea and Vietnam with little contact from home.

So my son started writing letters to the soldiers, so they wouldn't be so lonely. And I am proud to say that they are his letters..with his ideas, his thoughts...not mine.

I think it is shameful of this teacher, to use his influence on these children to get his views across...

Oh well, I can only hope we can get the address from the post, so we can send these soldiers some real letters from home.

..it's a sad situation all around.

The soldiers are victims in this War.
They should be supported, and protected from the abuses of our government in this situation.

To blame them is the worst thing imaginable, IMO.

They suffer lifelong pain due to the position our leaders put them in..the gruesome day ro day they must act out and witness..and the lies behind the whys.

They are doing their job, a most noble one at that. Our administration is abusing them in thier motives and poor planning, and when they come home, they have little to no financial, medical, psychological support from our government to boot.

A sad reality is children just like ours are dying and suffering in astronomical numbers. These students are expressing their emotion over that.

IMO, to expect them to support that, when the adults don't even have proper justification for it is just as bad. (ro support the soldiers, yes..to understand all the unneccessary killing..no. That's what's tragic)

Those letters should have gone to the White House.

Mo

Most of the 21 letters Jacobs provided to The Post mentioned some support for the armed forces, if not the Iraq war, and thanked him for his service. But nine of the students made clear their distaste for the president or the war.

The letters were written as a social-studies assignment.

The JHS 51 teacher, Alex Kunhardt, did not return phone calls, but the school principal, Xavier Costello, responded with a statement:

"While we would never censor anything that our children write, we sincerely apologize for forwarding letters that were in any way inappropriate to Pfc. Jacobs. This assignment was not intended to be insensitive, but to be supportive of the men and women in service to our nation."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yeah Right, I'm am livid, that school children are being USED to spread anti war propaganda

What murky mire are these teachers coming
from sneaking in their personal agendas and unloading on our servicemen and women?
I think we all ought to write letters to that Principal and let the school know how this is not to be tolerated. I think I am!

Lymebrat, good for you! That's an outstanding idea and I'd like to write him myself. Post the information if you can get it.

But I don't agree that the children are being "used to spread anti-War propaganda"..

While I think it is important to support out soldiers any way we can..

Expecting American children to support (or ignore) the unjustified death of 100,000 Iraqui civilians and children is just as haneous, IMO. They are old enough to understand what's going on, and understandably..many are very upset over the death of so many innocents.

It's ultimately the circumstances of this Iraq War that is the tragedy here.

Mo

They shouldn't have been subjected to this teacher's clearly biased opinions. Period!

They were spoon fed a teachers opinions about the situation in Iraq and were then asked to write letters to the soldiers..

This teacher knew exactly what the outcome would be. And it sicken me that anyone would use children in this way!

What is tragic, is that this "so called" teacher crossed the line..he forced his opinions and views about a situation, that sixth graders simply can not comprehend..Nor should they be expected to!!!!!!!!.

A teacher has an obligation to teach our children basic skills......not dictate their beliefs on to our children!!!!!!!!.

It is a parents job to decide if an 11 year old is ready to be educated on such topics such as war. And a parent can use their discretion about what they tell their child..

This teacher crossed the line... He all but told these kids what to write.. no matter what side of the fence one is on in the matter of this war.. this teacher crossed the line!

If I were the parent of any of these children, I would be outraged at this teacher..

even if I disliked Bush..I would be angry that this teacher is forcing his ideals and opinions into the minds of young impressionable children, who simply can not understand the complexity of something such as war..

I wrote a letter to the school board of this school, basically stating what I have said here. And as soon as I get the address, I am mailing it.

This is wrong and this teacher is wrong..and I am taking a stand.

-------*****-----

Also on a side note..our military is a volunteer military. Every single soldier who is in our military is there because he or she has made a conscious and decisive decision to join the American military.

Most have joined out of a great love for their country..they understood the possibility that they would be sent into harms way.

Many joined the military after 9/11, as they wanted to serve our country and protect her from future terrorist attacks. They knew what they were signing up for...

So I think it is an injustice to all who have volunteered to serve our country, to assume that they are somehow unwilling pawns in this war.

They knew what they were getting into..War is no stranger to the United States soldier....

One only has to look at all the "conflicts" and wars of the Carter, Reagan, Bush sr. and Clinton presidencies to know that war is a very clear and present danger if one is to enlist in the Military.

I have great respect for our soldiers. And I respect their decision to join the military. One doesn't have to be an Army Brat to understand that a soldier is a very special person..one who deserves more respect than this poor excuse of a teacher gave them.

And truth be told, I'm more upset that children like mine were used in this situation. The soldiers are adults and are able to cope.....

But these children are so impressionable.. and this scumbag teacher used these children! He forced his opinions and ideals on innocent children and then put words into their minds to write to a soldier..shame on him and anyone who supports him.

Mo said:

But I don't agree that the children are being "used to spread anti-War propaganda"..

Wow..sometimes I think we come from two different worlds..lol!

Of course these children were being used! This teacher clearly expressed his own personal opinions and ideals about the war and then after implanting his opinions into the minds of innocent, impressionable 11 year olds...he then asks them to write letters to the soldiers.

He knew damn well what some of these kids would write and his actions are inexcusable. He USED these kids and I for one am outraged!

Mo said:

"Expecting American children to support (or ignore) the unjustified death of 100,000 Iraqui civilians and children is just as haneous, IMO. They are old enough to understand what's going on, and understandably..many are very upset over the death of so many innocents."

That is my point exactly..we are talking about 11 YEAR OLD KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We shouldn't expect them to even begin to understand somethign as complex as war!!!

They are not old enough to know what is truly going on..to truly understand the situation.

But they are innocent enough to take the word of a teacher, they proably love and respect, as truth. And then write the words the teacher preached to them and put them in a letter to a soldier...

How can one expect an 11 year old to comprehend war? I'm 37 years old, my dad served in Korea and 2 tours of duty in Vietnam... I have watched literally at least a hundred documentaries about war and I still don't completely understand the complexities of war!!!! Let alone a child!

And yes, I understand that children are saddened by death... I saw the sadness and fear in every child in my town's eyes on September 11th. But that doesn't mean they understand the compact of war or a terrorist attack.

These children wrote what their teacher implanted in their heads! And it is wrong!!!!. It is his job to teach our kids basic fundamentals...it is our job as parents to decide if our 11 year old child is ready to discuss such subject as war.

I can understand your emotion around this.

I too have great respect for the military, and am close to a few of them myself.

All the reasons you say they enlist are very true..my points are on the administration's abuse of their devotion in the case of the Iraq War, and all the tragedies therein.

I have to say I disagree about Middle School aged children not being able to understand what's going on..

To fully comprehend, no, I agree ..they can't..

But they are too old not to get the fact that
the children are suffering terribly in iraq in so many ways..and too old not to have been exposed one way or another (not just through school)..to the great division over the justification of THIS War and what it is accomplishing.

They are old enough to comprehend the suffering of the children in Iraq. Many adults turn a blind eye to that in support of this Iraq War, but the kids have a harder time doing that.

That's whay I feel asking children to write in support of, or against the War is puts them in a position they should not be in.

After all..how can writing and expressing views on unneccessary death be any worse than writing in support of it?

Couldn't one say if they write in support of the US milirary action in Iraq (specifically)..that then they are being "used" for PRO-War propaganda?
Adults have to be careful not to impose their views on this.
I don't know what came from the teacher, btw..appahrently kids wrote both in support of, and against the War. 11 year olds are getting thier info from allot more than just the classroom.

Unless one is to keep the whole subject of the conditions of the iraq War from them..and simply ask them to say "Hi there and I'm proud of you"..to the military..

Bringing any other info on this War into their writings I think is innapropriate for children.

You'rs right, they just can't know enough.

God forbid they write in support of things they do not understand (not just the soldiers, but if they go into supporting the War itself)..and then grow up and see history unfolding in this case..

It's just too much to ask of a child to write for or against this Iraq War.

To support the soldiers is a separate issue, they are going through so much incredible pain.

Mo

you said:

Yeah Right, I'm am livid, that school children are being USED to spread anti war propaganda

What murky mire are these teachers coming
from sneaking in their personal agendas and unloading on our servicemen and women?
I think we all ought to write letters to that Principal and let the school know how this is not to be tolerated. I think I am!

Lymebrat, good for you! That's an outstanding idea and I'd like to write him myself. Post the information if you can get it."

I agree wholeheartedly. This teacher used these children and it is unforgivable..

I have a letter all written to the schoo, I am just working on getting the address...

If we as parents let this pathetic excuse of a teacher get away with this, then we will be just as guilty as he is..

We hear people screaming all the time about the quality of public schools..well my friends here is a perfect example of what our tax dollars are paying for.

A teacher who uses his position as a soap box, to spew his opinions onto our unsuspecting children. I'm not letting him get away with it!

And I'll post the soldiers address as soon as I get a response from the news paper.

In addition to my above post..

This I don't get. The outrage directed at this teacher.

Why hang the teacher?

These are the views of children on this War..therefore, I guess you mean to say thet the letters FOR the War should not have been sent either, right?

That's how I feel about it, lest they be using the children in Pro-War propaganda.

For the soldiers is much different than for the War.

I think there is an overreaction toward this teacher.

This is a short bio on the man who wrote the second article..accusing the teacher of cramming "Leftist" beliefs down their throats.

About the Author: Sher Zieve is a conservative political commentator who firmly believes that if Leftists ran the country (left to their own devices), it would be the end of the United States as a sovereign nation. Ms. Zieve welcomes your comments and can be reached at [email protected].

So..can we just take his slant on it?

How do we know this teacher did not simply present both sides..or simply the truth?

These days, the truth about outcomes and death in Iraq is considered "Anti-War propaganda" in and of itself.

11 year olds get info from many other sources besides school.

I'm just saying we don't know enough to send a lynching mob after the teacher, IMO.

I think the crux of the matter is the truth of the War.

I also think students should not be writing to soldiers at all...in this case. It's too confusing and too charged.
yet, they are too old to keep the truth fom, or to force them to ignore certain conditions of this War.
They need to talk about it, too..and should not be forced to take on a PRO-War stance, either.

Mo

You hit the nail right on the head when you said it is too much to ask these kids to write letters about if they are in support of this war or not...

And that is my point exactly..they weren't asked to write about the war! They were asked to write letters to the soldiers...to say hi and boost their moral.

They weren't suppose to be asked to make a political statement..they are 11 years old..for Pete's sake.

But this teacher crossed the line...he turned it into a political statement..

These kids were not suppose to be asked to write about whether they supported the war or not.. they were simply suppose to write letters to let the soldiers know that we were thinking about them here at home.

Schools across the nation have been doing this same exact project for a long time. I know our school did this letter project last year, and this year as well.

And they were NEVER asked to give an opinion about if they supported the war in Iraq..as most adults understand that the war is simply too complex of an issue for 11 year olds to understand.

We aren't talking about 16 year olds, we are talking about 11 year olds.

That is what makes what this teacher did so outrageous...and wrong. He took a perfectly wonderful project to give Support to out Troops ( not the war!) and turned it into a political soap box...

He all but put the words into these kids heads. He should have kept his personal feelings out of it! He used these kids to get his opinions made.

And that was wrong...

Although they don't have a direct access e-mail to him, there is a direct e-mail to the Chancellor of that school and its district in NYC. go to this web-address www.nycenet.edu/ourschools/region8/k282/default.htm
Then scroll down page to very bottom where
it says contact us. Click on to that page and scroll down to e-mail information.

The schools mailing address is: 180 6th St.
Brooklyn NY. 11217

Name of school is: PS 282Park Slope

Why am I upset with the teacher??? I am upset with him as he forced his personal opinions about the war onto impressionable, innocent 11 year old children!!! That's why.

He had no business forcing...and make no mistake about it,..... he forced his opinions and ideals onto these children.

The tax payers of New Jersey did not hire this teacher to teach their children his OPINION about the war!

Like I said it's not like we are talking about 16 year old kids..we are talking about 11 year olds...

And the fact of the matter is...they weren't suppose to be asked to write about the war...they were suppose to be asked to write to the soldier.

No one asked them to support the war! No one asked them to not support the war!

All they were asked was to write a letter to a soldier.

They could have written about many things a child of 11 likes to talk about..but instead they were force fed this drivel from this teacher and then asked to write a letter.

How could I not be upset with this teacher? How can anyone not be upset with this teacher?

He used these kids to get his opinions across.. It was a gross misuse of his powers as a teacher.

And the crux of the matter is not the truth about this war...not when it comes to 11 year olds!

The crux of the matter is, that some people feel so strongly against the war and president Bush, that they will stoop to new levels to get their point across..

This teacher is a prime example of how low human beings can become. He allowed his own personal opinions about a war..override his duty as a teacher....and he used these children to make his point..

How sad and pathetic.

I'm sorry Mo, but I do not see sending our soldiers a letter from home as a show of pro war.

As you stated, supporting "the soldier" is very different from supporting "the war".

These kids weren't suppose to be put into a position to make a political statement about the war... one way or the other.

They were asked to write letters to the soldier..the individual, the man or woman in another land..missing their homeland.

That is not pro war.

We see things in a totally different light when it comes to this matter. The fact that I voted for Bush has absolutely nothing to do with my outrage toward this teacher.

I would be just as upset with him had he forced his personal opinions and ideals about any situation, be it homosexuality, wemons rights, civil rights, Creationism vs.. Darwinism etc...

A personal opinion has no business being taught to 11 year old children. None! A teacher has no business trying to teach our children his personal opinions. He is their teacher, not their parent!

I have no problem debating the issues when a child is old enough to fully comprehend a subject..

as long as both side of the issue are discussed equally and the student is then capable of making up his or her own opinion.

An 11 year old is not capable of understand this issue...and they were only presented with their teachers opinion.

IMO, This man clearly was in the wrong... he was hired to teach these children...not force feed them his political views..

And I'm not going to let him think he can get away with it.

~LymeBrat

Hi Weeza,

Thanks for the address!!!! ..

I just addressed the envelope and I will mail it off in today's mail!

I truly believe in walking the talk and I will not let this teacher think he can use our children this way.

He should be ashamed of himself.

My posts are dijointed cuz I'm making a couldron of Turkey soup as we "speak"..
my son is running fevers again..

I did say I think support of the soldiers is very important..

But I'm also sure that kids of that age (even 11) are exposed to enough to have deep concern and questions..

So I think it is very healthy for them to be able to express those concerns and questions.

(and I think the kids of our country often see truths and questions that the adults are not facing)

But I do not think it was OK to send those viws on the War itself to the poor soldier.

He has enough to worry about.

In other words, an excecise or discussion of the War in school is healthy and necessary IMO, but not to put it in these letters to the soldier.
It should have been clarified that those letters were to say "hey" to the soldier, regardless of their feelings about the War.

I have to say though, with 11 year olds, I imagine that is confusing and difficult to do in and of itself. They know too much not to feel allot of emotion and confusion over it.

I feel initiating contact with them, even if it is strictly limited to "lope you get home safely"..opens the children's minds to the very emotional and confusing questions of what they are doing and why..and to the ravages of War. I don't think it's appropriate to ask them to write the letters at all..and if so, not without allowing discusion on the subject of the War.

That would leave them with allot of internal confusion IMO.

Re: the teacher..

I have seen nothing but opinion on his "evil ways"..how do we know he "forced" his personal beliefs on these kids?

Where does it definitavely say that..without imposed opinion or over reaction?

The kids know allot about what's going on, and have many questions.

When my son was 11, they had a debate in his sixth grade class about going to War in Iraq.

I witnesed it, and it was interesting to say the least.

Some of the children stood and talked about how we needed to kill all the evil Terrorists in Iraq ..

Some stood and expressed fear for the children who lived there, and that War would devistate them..and some said it is never right to wage War.

..my son stood and argued both sides..yes, we need to fight terrorism, but are we doing that by attacking Iraq?
There were only three in his group.
They said it needed to be thought through very carefully. War is a last resort.

So..teachers can do right by opening an avenue for them to debate and think about what's going on, not to take things at face value, and to learn about foreign relations.
To be independamt thinkers.

After all, these are current events.

I don't know enough about this teacher to know whether he "forced beliefs" on them or not.

That seems to be a conclusion that is being lept to. I don't know the teacher's story.

Teachers are not supposed to impose beliefs. The three men running my son's class made sure they never let on to their own beliefs.

If this (or any) teacher "preached" Pro or Anti War sentiments, that would be wrong.

Do you feel that if he influenced pro Iraq War content in the letters, you would respond in just the same way?

I feel if he used it as an excercise for them to think about things, and at the same time express fears and confusion (which 11 year olds do have over this War, make no mistake about it)..then I think that part of it was a good thing.

Many of out children do think about Iraq's children. More than many adults do. They are confused and O think need to talk about it among their peers, and they do.

Look how up in arms people are getting over a teacher because he had them think about things some feel are harmful for them to think about..
yet the children of Iraq live it every day.
And our kids know it, is my point.
We can't and shouldn't be keeping it from them or supressing it at their age. IMO.

There the crux of the problem is the truth about Iraq. That's what makes this topic so hot IMO.

I just don't agree that the letters ahould have been sent to the soldier..
I think they should have been sent to GW, Rice, or Rumsfeld..if they got inot anything other than supporting the soldiers in their suffering.

Mo

why? for the sake of the kid's. they know it's true what happened.

you are led to believe what a teacher sez/does. everything!

they are promoting his view's.why? believe what the teacher sez.

breech of trust...gary

p.s. hope this make's sense.i know what i'm thinking.hard to find the right word's...

Hope Ryan is feeling better... I have one down from a sledding accident and one hit their head today on concrete at school..oy!

I too know that kids as young as 11 are somewhat aware of the war...but they only know what they are told...

And what an 11 year old learns about the war is up to his or her parents..it is up to them to decide if their 11 year old child is old enough to grasp the concept of war.

It is up to them to censor what their child watches on TV about the war.

This teacher stepped out of bounds..he had no business even speaking his personal opinions about the war to a class of 11 year olds.

Even the principle said this assignment was intended to support the soldiers.. support the soldiers..not protest or support the war.

These little kids were used in this teachers mission to get his opinions and ideals out about this war and it is wrong.Plain and simple.

Personally I think it is a wonderful idea to have the kids send letters to our troops. Children all over the USA have been writing letters to our soldiers and this has never happened before.

Why? because their teachers didn't brainwash them before they wrote the letter. Most 11 year olds aren't equipped to discuss the war. They only have a limited resource of knowledge to base their opinion on.

In most cases kids are just repeating what their parents have said. In this case we have a teacher who is clearly biased against the war... giving these kids his personal opinion.

It's not right. The teachers job is not to preach his ideals and opinions to our kids!

you said:

"So..teachers can do right by opening an avenue for them to debate and think about what's going on, not to take things at face value, and to learn about foreign relations.
To be independamt thinkers."

And as I said I have no problem with that as long as the children are old enough to comprehend what they are debating. And if ALL sides of the issue is presented so the child can form his/her own opinion.

This clearly isn't what we have in this situation. We have one teacher presenting one view..his own personal feelings...to 11 year olds ... And it is wrong.

How can this teacher help our kids become independent thinkers, when he is only presenting them with his biased opinions? He wasn't trying to help those kids, he was using them to make his point.

No teacher worth his/her salt would ever use a child this way.

You said:

"Do you feel that if he influenced pro Iraq War content in the letters, you would respond in just the same way?"

Come now Mo, I thought you knew me better than that. I am not shallow. Of course I would feel the same way.

As I stated above....I would object to this type of teaching whether it was about, sexuality issues, civil rights, Creationism vs.Darwinism..etc..

it is wrong for a teacher to present children with his/her own personal opinions and ideals about any subject. And a good teacher will present all sides of every issue.

Not sit on his soap box and lecture 11 year olds about his personal opinions. He is a teacher not an anti- war spoke person.

And of course I know 11 year old have questions and fears about the war..my kids are 6& 8 and they too have fears and questions.

And there is nothing wrong in talking about the war... being a military family and having loved ones in Iraq..we do discuss it..

But it is up to me to decide if they are capable of understanding the complexity of war. Not some teacher. And if they were ready to take on the debate about war, I would make sure they we given all sides of the issue and let them come to their own logical conclusion.. But they are not ready...

Nor are 11 year olds..they are simply not capable of understanding all aspects of this war.. but they are easily lead to believe what the teacher they love and trust tells them.

This teacher broke that trust as far as I'm concerned. he put his own political agenda ahead of these children and it is wrong!

you said:

"Look how up in arms people are getting over a teacher because he had them think about things some feel are harmful for them to think about..

This teacher is clearly anti war...he is biased. Is this the kind of teacher you want teaching your children? It's not the kind of teacher I want for my kids.

I am up in arms because this teacher used these kids to make a political statement. I could care less if it was a pro war or an anti war statement..it is his own personal opinion and he had no right!

yet the children of Iraq live it every day. And our kids know it, is my point.
We can't and shouldn't be keeping it from them or supressing it at their age. IMO.

yes kids do know this. They know what their parents tell them. I'm not saying we should suppress them..I'm saying 11 year olds simply aren't capable of understanding all that is involved in this war.

Should we also tell 11 year olds about all the heinous acts Suddam did to his people?

Should we show these 11 year olds all the pictures of the thousands of innocent children Suddam had murdered or gassed? (I still see these children in my nightmares)

Should we show them all the mass graves containing the bodies of all the people Suddam had executed?

Should we show them the human remains in the torture chambers? And tell them what was done to Suddam's victims?

Should we have them watch the horrors that unfolded on September 11th? The people burning and jumping to their death to avoid the flames consuming their flesh? And some so horrible that I can't bear to watch?

Should we show them the gruesome photos of people who were beheaded at the hands of terrorists?

Or maybe we should also show these 11 year old girls photos of the women and sometimes young girls no older than themselves, who were allowed to be publicly raped as punishment for her father or husbands so called crimes?

If you want to present the issue of war to an 11 year old, than you have to present all sides of the issue..and these are all facets of war.

And I don't know about you, but I don't know an 11 year old child who can comprehend all the issues of war enough to make his/her own independent conclusion.

And I sure don't want some teacher to decide if my child should hear his/her own personal political ideals and opinions.

~LymeBrat

I agree that if this teacher forced his personal beliefs regarding the War on the children..that it would be wrong..whatever the belief.

But..I still don't see any reference to where he did that. (except assumption)..maybe I missed something.
I see the second article written by a very accusatory anti "Left" reporter blames the teacher..but there are no facts, just lynches tied. He seems to be using the story to bash the "Left"..calling them all kinds of unsavory things in his piece.

Accusing this man of "using" the children to impose his views..
on who..the soldier? Even if this teacher is against the War..unless he's a total loon..
what would he get out of having his class express this to a soldier?

There's allot of asumption here, I think ..and allot that doesn't make sence..and I am frightened by the response to the story, by this journalist and the public. People are really quick to attack and degrade in these circumstances. We don't know what this teacher did or didn't do.

I do agree with Gary, that would be a breech of trust...if the personal views were "taught"..or imposed.

I don't agree that 11 year olds only know what their parents tell them or let them see, and that they are not old enough to discuss surrent events (even if War) in school in an appropriate arena.

These kids live in Brooklyn..where entire neighborhoods were impacted profoundly by 911, and these neighborhoods talk collectively about this War often. In Brooklyn, kids spend their afternoons hanging out on the street in their neighborhood playing ball, or in the parks..and are exposed to ongoing conversation between members of the neighborhood of all ages.

I think suburban and rural 11 year olds are exposed to allot, as well..but in Brooklyn and Manhattan..even moreso.

NYers are very outspoken against the Iraq War because they feel the real threat of Terror is being ignored, and made much worse, by this War. NYers have a tangible sence of terrorism.

The anti-War "movement" is very big there.
The kids are seing this too. I'm sure that AntiWar sentiment in 11 year olds could well have been there before they attended class with this teacher...whether he shared his views or not.

I just think there is allot more to this than some people are thinking about. Allot more than can be blamed on the teacher perhaps.

My son's Midle school discusses the War in 6th, 7th, and 8th grade, under proper circumstances, in a brief segment in Social Studies. They debate it.

These kids are exposed to enough to have oponions also through friends and the general public.

I DON'T think the soldier should have had to deal with any extra pressure..

I DO feel that asking kids of age groups that can comprehend War to write the soldiers is not appropriate IF they are then not going to discuss the War in school.

If there will be no learning or discussion in school about it, then I feel Middle school kids should not be asked to write (at school).

..and if they are exposed at any level in school at that age..thoughts and question regarding children who suffer for the past two years under this occupation automatically come to their mind. They are also old enough at 11 to be compelled to express some of what they have learned at home.

I don't think they can fit into the curriculum *accurate study of the history of Iraq, and the realities of foreign relations in the Middle East..and if they did, they would likely have ALLOT more questions than they already do about justifying this War.

I don't think there are "two sides" to present..there is just one truth..so a teacher's job in this instance (if Iraq became part of the curriculum, or a special study class for older kids)..would be to present FACTS..
not beliefs..and all the facts, not selective ones that sway views (like emphasis on the gassed victims and no mention of the bombed, starving victims since the occupation..ect, ect)
and let the student think for themselves.

Something more adults should be doing, actually.

Mo

WRITING A WRONG
By DAVID ANDREATTA

February 22, 2005 -- The city Department of Education, red-faced over Brooklyn sixth-graders who slammed a GI with demoralizing anti-Iraq-war letters as part of a school assignment, will send the 20-year-old private a letter of apology today.

Deputy Schools Chancellor Carmen Farina, who has a nephew serving in Iraq, plans to personally contact Pfc. Rob Jacobs and his family, said department spokeswoman Michele McManus Higgins.

"She knows how difficult it is to have a loved one in a war zone," Higgins said.

Jacobs is stationed 10 miles from the North Korean border and who has been told he may be headed to Iraq in the near future.

The GI got the ranting missives last month from pint-sized pen pals at JHS 51 in Park Slope.

Filled with political diatribes, the letters -- excerpts of which were printed in yesterday's Post -- predicted GIs would die by the tens of thousands, accused soldiers of killing Iraqi civilians and bashed President Bush.

Teacher Alex Kunhardt had his students write Jacobs as part of a social-studies assignment.

He declined to comment yesterday on whether he read the rants before passing them along, but said he planned to contact Jacobs soon to explain the situation.

In an accompanying letter to Jacobs, Kunhardt had written that the students "come from a variety of backgrounds and political beliefs, but unanimously support the bravery and sacrifice of American soldiers around the world."

"Support" was not the word that came to Jacobs' mind when he read the letters.

One girl wrote that she believes Jacobs is "being forced to kill innocent people" and challenged him to name an Iraqi terrorist, concluding, "I know I can't."

Another girl wrote, "I strongly feel this war is pointless," while a classmate predicted that because Bush was re-elected, "only 50 or 100 [soldiers] will survive."

A boy accused soldiers of "destroying holy places like mosques."

Even one kid smitten with soldiers couldn't keep politics out of the picture, writing, "I find that many extreme liberals are disrespectful to you."

Uplifting letters from children are dear to soldiers, Jacobs said. He looks at a batch he got from a Girl Scout troop from his hometown of Middletown, N.J., whenever he feels lonely.

At the time the 21 JHS 51 letters were penned, Jacobs, who has been stationed in Korea for nearly a year, was told that he may be headed to Iraq. But no official order for deployment was given.

"If I were in Iraq and read that the youth of our nation doesn't want me to be there and doesn't believe in what I'm doing, it would mess up my head," Jacobs said.

Jacobs said he would welcome a letter from the Department of Education and the teacher.

"I want to think these letters were coached by the teacher or the parents of these children," Jacobs said in an interview from Camp Casey, Korea.

Sorry, but in my opinion, there isn't an 11 year old in the world... be it New York or New Hampshire, who can completely understand the war enough to form an educated opinion one way or the other.

Heck there are many adults who are unable to make rational opinions about the war due to biased beliefs.. how can we expect an 11 year old to be capable of doing somethign many adults can't?

And there are always more than one side of any subject to consider..even this war. If a teacher is going to present one side of the war..in this case the cons of war..they need to present all details, such as the terror Suddam reigned on his people..including the gassing of hundreds of children.

Otherwise they are only getting a one sided view..and there are just as many people who supported going into this war as those who didn't. These people's opinions need to be presented as well.

Regardless, the point of this story is that this teacher crossed the line..he had no business discussing this subject with 11 year olds. Period..but if he felt it necessary, he should have presented all sides.

I hate to make generalizations, but I am seeing a scary trend to the reaction to this story.

Most everyone I have spoken to; or have read their reaction to this story, are just as appalled by this teachers conduct as I am...

But a few folks, who are all anti-war by the way... are sticking up for this man. Which doesn't make sense to me..I am not upset by this teachers actions because he is anti war...I could care less about his political opinions..I am upset because he gave his personal opinions to a group of impressionable 11 year old children.

I could care less if he was preaching pro war...it is wrong!

I just watched Hannity and Colmes as I heard they were doing an interview with the father of PFC Jacobs...

And Hannity was outraged...but Colmes actually tried to make light of the situation...

I am trying to get a transcript of tonight's show to put on here, so others can read some of the awful remarks these students wrote...many of which go way beyond an 11 year olds understanding and vocabulary..

It is the thoughts of an adult..not an 11 year old child.

And what ticks me off the most is that a teacher at the school asked this father if his son would like to receive Christmas cards, and his son said he would.

So the father gave the teacher his sons address ,who in turn gave it to the teacher in question...

And this is this teachers idea of sending a soldier Christmas letters? this soldier was rightfully expecting Christmas cards...not hate mail.

Bottom line is, for me- this man crossed the line..first by filling these kids heads with his drivel and secondly by sending these letters...even though he knew it was inappropriate to send to a soldier as a Christmas card.

And he DID USE these children. He filled their heads with his personal opinions and ideals about this war and then had them put his words onto paper to send to an American Soldier...

So sorry, I just don't understand why everyone isn't outraged.

I sent my letters and will keep posting ore information about this as I find it...for those interested.

~LymeBrat

Here it is if anyone else wants to write.

The teacher's name is Alex Kunhardt.

To Contact The School:
SCHOOL:
JHS 51 WILLIAM ALEXANDER SCHOOL

Chief School Officer:
PRINCIPAL-XAVIER CASTELLI

Mailing Address:
350 FIFTH AVE BROOKLYN, NY 11215

What does that say? IMO, those are the ones bringing personal beliefs innapropriately into it.

Mr. Hannity chronically uses every chance he can get to bash any opinion that does not agree with the far Right, always has. He yells over people if they are making points he doesn't agree with.

I'm wondering if FOX posted the contact info on this teacher and say he should be fired? How frightening. They did the same thing to that college Profesor.
Do they do that to Ministers and teachers who are expressing Pro-War views?
They should, if this is to be fair.

Jeez Louise..noone even knows what the teacher said or did.

This is getting way out of hand. You can express CERTAIN views at the top of your lungs..and CERTAIN others can get you fired..
write to have him canned first, ask questions later.

I'm sorry, but NOONE has the right to make the asumption that the remarks the kids made MUST have come from the teacher's forcefeeding of his own opinions..

IF they did, I feel that is wrong..

but right now, I feel the asumption that they just MUST have is WRONG..

..and is more indicative of an insecurity among Pro-War folks.

This is getting nuts..this public knee jerk reaction.

It's this War that is upside down, and there is no way to keep that from kids. It's one of the tragedies of War.

IF this teacher was innapropriate that's one thing..

Sending them to the soldier was wrong, IMO..someone should have read them first.

But..no..this should not become another Left bashing bandwagon.

People are angry about the children's Anti-War comments, and want to leap to hang the teacher for it.

IF the teacher FORCED beliefs on the children, that would be wrong..
and many War protestors would be equally upset of a teacher claimed this War was right..

But we have no evidence that the teacher did that. In this last article, the soldier said he "hoped" it came from the teacher or their parents.

And the reactionaries act as though..the Anti-War opinions could not possibly come from the kids themselves! Well, they can, and they do.
What right do we have to asume they couldn't have?

What of the children's Pro-War staements? How do we know THEY are not the sentiments of the teacher? Why is noone upset about the Pro-War letters?

These children absolutely could have formed their views from information from many sources living in NYC these days. No soubt about it, I've lived there half my life.
They are constantly exposed to World views.

Did you read my post about their circumstances?

Mo

quote:

---

Teacher Alex Kunhardt had his students write Jacobs as part of a social-studies assignment.

---

'social studies' have no place in a curriculum. They are just touchy feely juvenile pap.

A sociology book is a great sleep aid for an insomniac lymie.

maybe,he did not read the letters?

Middle school is quite a different beast and there are a few free thinking kids out there,with a HUGE difference in background and lifestyles.Grade 5 to 6 is very eye opening,and look at the setting.

It could be worse,some National Guardsmen are receiving letters about their jobs being lost,due to business closings.Now that would be a punch in the stomach.

Some get the Dear John letters,to much stress honey.

So,after all,this is what we are fighting for,Freedom.Sometimes it is nice,sometimes not.But let us not say this teacher is quilty before we hear HIS side.

He could be an innocent victim and we are looking at young people expressing views they have only learned from home.

It is unfortunate those letters made it that far.

If we are to witch hunt, then gather the college professors,the liberal or conservative priests that are giving sermons on Sunday in hopes this for the war to end.Let's get some of those High School kids too,they will be 18 and some are feeling pretty desperate.

Heck,round up all the parents that give GI JOES to the kids,and let Jonny play kill the other side.

So,morally in this country,one is innocent before proven quilty,and I think we should let this teacher tell his story,so we can follow the rights we have established in our country.

The Rights we are now trying to give and establish for Iraq.

What is it,Due Process,did we learn that about in Jr. High or somewhere along the way.

"It seems the only ones getting this upset about it are "Pro-War" adults. What does that say? IMO, those are the ones bringing personal beliefs innapropriately into it.

Personal beliefs..what personal beliefs. My beliefs have nothing to do with why I find this situation wrong..

He mailed letters to a 20 year old soldier.. letters he knew were inappropriate..but he mailed them anyways.. that is wrong in any book..

what personal beliefs am I using to make this assumption..common decency? If so, then yes, I am guilty as charged.

And no, that is not how I view it at all...what it says is that folks like Colmes, are turning a blind eye to this man's obvious blatant misuse of his teacher powers to voice his political views.

And please, my being outraged by this situation has nothing to do with my political views...

As I clearly stated time and time again....I could care less if this teacher was voicing his personal ideals and opinions about pro war..or in support of Bush..

I would still be appalled that a teacher...a person we entrust our children to, would use his position as a teacher to voice his own personal opinions and ideal.

And my God, if that wasn't enough to upset any human being...the man then sends these letters to a 20 year old kid in Korea...

Where is the outrage???

I am outraged and simply can not fathom that politics aside, every single person is not appalled that this man forwarded letters he knew were inappropriate, to a 20 year old soldier in Korea!

A kid who was expecting Christmas cards, but instead received letters stating that they believed he is killing innocent people..

And you don't find that appalling??? I sure as heck do.

Even if we put the deplorable acts of this teacher aside for the purpose of this discussion...

How can anyone not be saddened and upset that at the very least, this teacher allowed these letters that he knew were not acceptable to be sent to PFC Jacobs?

At the very least I would think everyone could at least agree that this teacher is in the wrong for forwarding letters.

He had to have known it was inappropriate, if he didn't than he has even less morals than I give him credit for..and he is unfit to teach our children.

Mo said:

Mr. Hannity chronically uses every chance he can get to bash any opinion that does not agree with the far Right, always has. He yells over people if they are making points he doesn't agree with.

And Colmes is also known for sticking up for Anti war folks..no matter how in the wrong they may be. That was my point.

Mo said:

"I'm sorry, but NOONE has the right to make the asumption that the remarks the kids made MUST have come from the teacher's forcefeeding of his own opinions.. "

no need to be sorry.. and yes I do have the right to say anything I wish about this man..our forefathers gave me this right..my father fought for this right and I will shout from the roof top that this man is wrong..wrong..wrong..

I don't need a written deposition to slam me in the face to "prove" that this man shared his personal opinions with his students..

The letters these students wrote, speak for themselves..

there is no way any student, especially 9 students in one single class could possibly have the capacity to comprehend, let alone write some of the things these letters contained! ( I don't care where they come from..these kids are 1 years old!)

And many of them use the same exact terminology...at the very least it is suspicious.

And again..putting this aside for the moment, as I don't have the facts some seem to need to "prove my opinion" (I forgot I have to prove my opinion over here )

So lets give him some credit and say his students are the smartest 11 year olds on the planet and can fully understand this war and all it's components... and for the sake of argument they were All able to make an educated decision about this war and whether to support it or not..ON THEIR OWN...

It still doesn't excuse him from allowing these inappropriate letters to be mailed. Obviously the school board and department of education disagree with his decision, as they are issuing an apology.

And this teacher DID read these letters before he sent them..he saw nothing wrong with them..why would he? As it "seems" he shared their statements.

And I hope this teacher will understand the harm he has caused.. PFC Jacobs is a 20 year old soldier..in Korea! Who simply wanted some letters from home to comfort him..

And I am not mad at the children.. if and that's a big if..these opinions are those of these 11 year old children, then they certainly have a right to voice them.. and I would encourage them to do so...

But this teacher should send these letters to the White House or other appropriate officials..

NOT a 20 year old kid ..a soldier far away from home, hoping to read some light hearted Christmas Cards from the kids back home.

And that my friend is why I am personally angry..this teacher knew these letters were inappropriate to be sent to this soldier..yet he sent them anyways!

For that..at the very least, he owes PFC Jacobs and his family and apology.

At the very least....

This is about a teacher forwarding letters he knew were inappropriate, to a 20 year old kid..a soldier in Korea.

This teacher is currently refusing to answer the question of whether he did indeed read these letters before he personally mailed them to PFC Jacobs..

But it is known that the teacher Mr.Alex Kunhardt enclosed his own letter along with the children's letters in question.

And as I stated, we are talking about 6th graders..not Freshmen or Seniors...6th graders.

Very young, impressionable, 11 year old children. I am a teacher and work with children of this age all the time...

And I am not buying that these thoughts are those of an 11 year old..

And even if I give the teacher the complete benefit of the doubt and say he had no impact whatsoever on these children's letters...

It still does Not excuse him for mailing letters of this nature to a soldier..a 20 year old boy.

And as a teacher, let me just say that I have a hard time swallowing the idea that this teacher didn't read these letters before he mailed them....

A teacher always checks his/her students work...always! And even if he somehow managed to not read these 21 letters, he still owes PFC Jacobs an apology.

Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, and I will respect them. As am I entitled to my opinion, I simply ask that others respect mine as well.

Well, I'm off. I have more research to do and another letter to write.. this one to PFC Jacob's family.

And I have to get my medical notes ready as my babies have a follow up apt. with Dr.Jones in CT on Thursday...

So good nite to all and God Bless,

You'd be surprised what 11 year old's know, and form opinions on.
Just because "you don't buy it" LB, does not mean the teacher force fed them thier thoughts, and that they were not their own views. That's a big leap.

We have no idea what, if any..aspects of the War were discussed in this class before the letters were written.

These kids have strong opinions about this War, and by Middle school, they are more intrigued and apt to express their feelings..
either for or against their parents' views on this War.

They have the views, whether or not restricted from class, they still have them.

The kids in our district debate on it, and the good teachers let them debate, without putting restraints on what they can say. Just that they know the limits of debate, in that they don't get personal with individuals.

I witnessed my son's 6th grade class debate the War..they had allot of feelings and views of their own at that age..more than we adults might think.

I agree with everyone here that those letters should not have gone to the soldier. If it was the teacher's job to read them before they were sent, and if he did..he should not have sent them to the soldier.

..he should have graded the papers and not sent the letters..or maybe he made a bad call, but his intent was to share the uncensored views of kids here..
in light of the freedom 3Great mentioned.

Hard to believe he would have it in for this 20 year old kid/soldier..but if he did, that would be wrong.

To impulsively hang the teacher for the student's remarks is very wrong, though..IMO.

Also, I don't understand where the teacher's bias comes into it at all. See this paragraph:

"Most of the 21 letters Jacobs provided to The Post mentioned some support for the armed forces, if not the Iraq war, and thanked him for his service. But nine of the students made clear their distaste for the president or the war."

IMO this was not an act of bias on behalf of the teacher. Now, had the teacher actually dictated which opinions kids were and weren't allowed to express that would be an act of bias.

If he is guilty of "brainwashing" his class and they are so impressionable, why then were the majority of letters from the class without Anti-War statements?

Kids..especially in NY (having axperienced 911) re: this War..but anywhere..form their opinions at that age based on allot of
different things. Friends, music, the News..
in adition to what they hear at home.

So..the attack on the teacher is unfounded unless he crammed these ideas into these kids heads using force. There is nothing to confirm that at all.

I still feel those who are upset about it are upset because the kids wrote Anti-War sentiments..and need someone to blame that on. I still think it is the Anti-War sentiments themselves that are upsetting some who are reacting this way.

Pro-War sentiments would not have gotten this response from select media sources.

The kids are our future..they are forming their own opinions, and whether pro or Anti War, should not be blamed for that..nor should ONE teacher in their lives be blamed for that.

This is just left bashing by some of the media. (if this teacher is even of a "left" mindset..would be intersdting to see his letter)

3Great's other points are important, too IMO.

Mo

maybe,he did not read the letters?"Quote: 3 Great Kids

If he didn't read his students work, then he's not doing the job he's being paid to do. And whether or not he intended to "influence" his students against the war, he took liberties he had no right to impose on impressionable boys and girls.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"So,morally in this country,one is innocent before proven quilty,and I think we should let this teacher tell his story,so we can follow the rights we have established in our country." 3 Great Kids

Looks like the evidence is already in 3 Great, the letters themselves are proof that these demoralizing comments were made by some students. No Jury necessary here. He made a sorry judgement call that IMO borders on abuse of power in his "supposed" role of mentor and teacher. No wonder more & more people of moral conscience are removing children from public schools and home schooling.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And as a teacher, let me just say that I have a hard time swallowing the idea that this teacher didn't read these letters before he mailed them....

A teacher always checks his/her students work...always! And even if he somehow managed to not read these 21 letters, he still owes PFC Jacobs an apology. by Lymebrat

maybe,he did not read the letters?"Quote: 3 Great Kids

If he didn't read his students work, then he's not doing the job he's being paid to do. And whether or not he intended to "influence" his students against the war, he took liberties he had no right to impose on impressionable boys and girls.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"So,morally in this country,one is innocent before proven quilty,and I think we should let this teacher tell his story,so we can follow the rights we have established in our country." 3 Great Kids

Looks like the evidence is already in 3 Great, the letters themselves are proof that these demoralizing comments were made by some students. No Jury necessary here. He made a sorry judgement call that IMO borders on abuse of power in his "supposed" role of mentor and teacher. No wonder more & more people of moral conscience are removing children from public schools and home schooling.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And as a teacher, let me just say that I have a hard time swallowing the idea that this teacher didn't read these letters before he mailed them....

A teacher always checks his/her students work...always! And even if he somehow managed to not read these 21 letters, he still owes PFC Jacobs an apology. by Lymebrat

That still does not excuse the quick to judge episode that surrounded this event.

We only hear the one side and jump on a band wagon,we did not hear any extra added details to really clear this story.We never will,sweep it under the rug.

To dismiss the fact that there are kids out there oppossing the war and yes they are 11 and 12 years olds,facing war,drugs,sex,terroism,school shootings,bullies,gangs,divorces.

To think this teacher was responsible for all that came out on paper is ludicrous.

They cut to the chase and tell it how they see it,w/o the clutter adults add to a problem.

We should all learn from this,the war is having huge effects on everyone,soldiers down to our kids.

I don't think this teacher added any thoughts that where not already cemented in their minds.

We want them to be smart and make the grade,only if they regurgitate it back in the acceptable PC fashion.

Here is the link for the school: http://www.nycenet.edu/OurSchools/Region8/K051/default.htm

Direct e-mail to the Social Studies Department:
Elise Abegg
Director of Social Studies
[email protected]

I am getting so sick and tired of all the whining that is going on by US citizens/people living in the US.

I don't like Bush. I don't like this war. I don't like this government. I don't like the religion this country was founded on. Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine.

You know, if you hate what is going on in the USA, then freakin leave. Pack your crap up and move your freakin family to another freakin country.

I am sick and tired of the strides we make for so many other cultures when we can't even call Christmas break 'Christmas' break.

I think you're right on the money.

I still haven't read what the circumstances of the "sending and reading of the letters" are, though. But, beyond that..

People with differing beliefs than these children cannot accept that the kids would write in protest of the War, that there words cut to the chase..as kids words often do

And it was the rush to judgement that someone else must have fed these thoughts to them that is so wrong.
Such swift judgement with so little information.

This country needs to face some things, and that the kids are seeing what's going on and have valid questions themselves.
They also need to recognizewhat's behind this reaction.
Ironically, this sixth class project undertaken in Brooklyn holds valuable teaching for all of us.

The teacher does not deserve the anger that comes from War supporters who do not want our kids expressing these thoughts.
The censorship of what's OK for them to say, what's not..and that certain Anti-War sentiments must come from a horrible teacher.

These kids face allot of scary things these days. This War doesn't make sence to most of the World and a good deal of adults in our country, Dem and Repub alike.

How can we expect that sixth graders don't see this?

Mo

That's right,I would expected the ole well, pack your bags and get the Hell out of Dodge.

If we all did that,would Nixon had been left in office,we would pay $1000 for toilet seats and so on and so on.Would we throw in the towel on Lyme and let the CDC tell us we are over and done with?

We are trying so hard, to believe, these kids are innocent,living perfect lives and could not grasp the idea of war.

I think the first lady may be on to something with her new agenda,an agenda that will take a closer look and help these middle school kids,especilly the boys.

They are bright,see and hear and comprehend more about the world than we could ever imagine.We have created an ever info savy world for them,so we better wake up and realise what they are really taking in and how they are really processing that data.

Their fears,dreams,realities,problems,and progress are greatly being disrespected.

For those who do not know,just wait,middle school is a monster.

Mo,you are right ,this is a valuable lesson for all of us,right or wrong or in the middle.That is what counts!

and most importantly their thoughts need to be accepted..honored and respected at that age (eventhough they can be hard to swallow at times ) ,
especially when we have these conditions to live under regarding this War, among other things.

Kids in Brooklyn lived in a War Zone. NYC as a whole in general wants Terror addressed, not encouraged. These feelings run very deep.
Kids need a good reason to justify things like death...so it is hard for them to write a soldier, and not express thier confusion over this.

The teacher may deserve reprimand for being insensitive to this soldier, but the rest of it..and his position as teacher, have no right to be questioned. That's displaced anger.

..and, ya..the whole Lyme experience
re: taking the establishment's word as golden, and suffer at the hands of it.. has taught us allot about life.

Mo

Nothing better than writing, to see what is really going on ,in those minds and ours!

But they do know, that he did send these inappropriate letters to Private Jacobs...a kid serving in the US military. Yet they still defend this teacher.. amazing!

Me, I'm not buying into the theory that this teacher is just an innocent bystander, who truly thought he was doing the right thing.

He knew what those kids wrote was inappropriate...and if for some reason beyond all comprehension...this teacher mailed off letters, that students in his care wrote to a 20 year old soldier in Korea without reading them, then that is ground for dismissal as far as I'm concerned.

As I said I AM a teacher..I know what goes on in a classroom..and there isn't a teacher worth his/her teaching degree, that would let 21 letters be mailed to a United States Soldier, without at the very least proof reading them.

So go ahead... sit here and condemn me because I and the majority of the world, believe that this man purposely sent off letters to a 20 year old soldier, that he knew were inappropriate...

And perhaps you would feel a little differently, if it was your 20 year old son who was in Korea, expecting to receive Christmas letters from home, but instead received these inappropriate, outrageous letters

And let us not forget... this soldier and his father, were told by this school, that he would be receiving Christmas Cards...CHRISTMAS CARDS...not politically laced letters.

There is a big difference there my friends and the fact that some continue to pretend that this was not 100% wrong, boggles my mind.

As I said...repeatedly...I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that there is a slim possibility, a very slim possibility, that he didn't share own political views with these children... so let's just put this aside for the time being...as it's truly not that important in the big picture..

The truth of the matter is, the possibility that these letters contained some ideas that this teacher may have given the students... is just one small part of this story..

the true injustice, is that Private Jacobs, a 20 year old soldier serving in Korea, received inappropriate letters that this teacher mailed to him.

And I am "still not buying", ( nor should anyone, IMHO) that this man simply overlooked reading 21 letters that his students wrote, BEFORE he added his OWN letter and PERSONALLY mailed them to Private Jacobs, an American Soldier Overseas...

NO matter how you look at it my friends, for mailing these letters without reading them, this teacher was wrong...wrong wrong!!!!

And okay, I'll even bite on some peoples theory that, oh this poor innocent man probably didn't read the 21 letters before he mailed them... why is everyone trying to hang him at the stake..oh the poor innocent man....

Choke ...choke ...cough....cough....Gulp...that's a hard pill to swallow...

He still needs to be held accountable for neglecting to do his job as a teacher...by not reading these letters his students wrote... before he mailed them to Private Jacobs.

And one other thing.. how many of you who are sticking up for this man, are a teacher?? I ask as I am a teacher.... and I am very aware of how intelligent our children are..sometimes even more so than many adults...

But I am telling you... as will every other teaching professional out there will tell you, that there is no way...no way, that these letters were written without outside influence.

No way...

So I guess this debate has turned into a stale mate as well..to bad as it seems we can't even discuss the fact that a teacher sent inappropriate letters to a 20 year old soldier, without some putting their political views before common sense.

My political views have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the fact that I... as a citizen of the USA, a teacher, an Army Brat and more importantly a parent.. think this teacher failed to do his duty as a teacher, when he sent these inappropriate letters to Private Jacobs!!!!

And as a parent, I would just like to reiterate that we wouldn't even be having this discussion IMHO, if it was our child who received these so called Christmas Cards...

The majority of people are outraged by this..why isn't everyone??

At the very least..the very least, even if one were to think this teacher mailed all 21 of these letters without reading them... we should all be upset that he failed to do his duty as a responsible teacher and read these letters before he mailed them to A 20 YEAR OLD SOLIDER OVERSEAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He owes Private Jacobs an apology.. at the very least.

~LymeBrat

He is the reason I am outraged by this teachers actions...it has nothing to do with a political view..

Look at his face and tell me... this teacher did no wrong, by sending him these inappropriate letters...

I could care less if he read them or not.. the fact is that this teacher was the one who mailed them and he owes this young man an apology.

Nobody is qestioning that the soldier should probably not have been given these letters..

But the rest of your post (against this teacher, and re: the thought process of 11 year olds) it is assumption on your part.

I see you obviously feel very strongly about your beleifs about what these children in Brooklyn think and feel, and your beliefs that this is a bad teacher..
you have every right to form opinions based on assumptions if you feel comfortable doing that, but that's unfair to the teacher when they become accusations. Some other people are making those same leaps to judgement.

I feel I cannot form an opinion either way.. because there isn't enough infomation.
(I don't know if the rest of the country and the rest of the teachers in the World feel this way, as you say..
my husnband is a teacher in Middle School..and does not share your views. His kids have very strong opinions along the lines of these letters as well, and have a hard time understanding why we are at War based on many public questions, and they are at an age where their feelings are expressed more independantly, sometimes without thinking about who their audience is).

We're not so much "defending the teacher"..
as pointing out that there no information to make these accusations stand as anything more than assumptions. *There is allot to consider that bring question to these assumptions. He's getting slammed without any justification, to this point.

The seargent deserves an apology for bad judgement, on whomevers part it was in seeing that these letters got mailed. IMO.

He's just a kid himself. The US government
is doing far more harm to kids like him (especially if he ends up in Iraq) than these letters ever could,though, I'm afraid.
But that's beside the point I guess.

The teacher deserves an apology for being blacklisted without due cause for his teaching. We have no idea what he did or did not teach his class regarding Iraq..or what he did surrounding this one assignment.

The questions raised by these kids are not his fault.

Mo

there is nothing fair and balanced about fox. stuff the whole bunch of them in a burlap sack,and chuck them off the upper black eddy/milford bridge.

how come they never used the word "accurate" ?

i know your out there"lyme veteran"...

you said:
Nobody is qestioning that the soldier should probably not have been given these letters..

Probably??? Proably??!!!..

No, Private Jacobs definitely should NOT have been mailed these letters..no probably about it!

You said:

The teacher deserves an apology for being blacklisted without cause. We have no idea what he did or did not teach his class regarding Iraq.

Oh my God! This teacher deserves an apology??? Now I have heard every thing. He does not deserve an apology.

Without cause???? He failed to use good judgment..he failed to be a good teacher and he failed Private Jacobs when he sent him these letters.

As I have stated many times, I do not know what he taught these kids, nor do you for that matter. You have no idea what he said to these kids..nor do I . So you are making assumptions just as I am.

And at this point, I'm not concerning myself with what this teacher may have said to these children about the war....

As the far greater crime in this story, is that this teacher was the one who sent these letters.. There is no disputing this fact.

fine, some don't think he read these letters before he sent them..he is the innocent one, wrongly accused...

Again..choke, cough ..gulp..

The fact is that this teacher mailed these letters...it doesn't matter if he read them or not.. he should have!!! and he is the one who mailed them.

1. If he didn't read them , he should have! All teachers read their students work...

2. If he did or did not read these letters before he mailed them, he is still the one who enclosed his own letter and mailed them to PFC Jacobs.

And Yes, I am strong in my "beliefs", just as you are strong in your "beliefs"... Neither of us knows what this teacher did or did not say to these students..as he is refusing to tell us..

That is why I have repeatedly said, at this point I am only holding him accountable for the action of mailing inappropriate letters to this soldier...

As far as my opinion about the capacity that an 11 year old has to fully comprehend all aspects of war... your right it is my opinion..

Just as your assumption that they are capable of comprehending all facets of war is your opinion.

I think I am right, you think you are right. Neither of us can say the other is wrong. I am simply saying I think I am right.

I base my opinion on my background as a teacher and working in the teaching field for the past 19 years...

And every single teacher I have spoken to, thinks this was inappropriate. And not just teachers from New Hampshire, who in some peoples opinion, are sheltered from the effects of 9/11...and war.

Trust me, we are not... nor are the students in New Hampshire. 9/11 effected all of us. This war effects us all.

One doesn't have to live in New York to be educated with current affairs or the war.... or feel the devastation of 9/11.

And just because one lives in New York, doesn't mean that an 11 year old is fully able to comprehend all facets of this war...

Nor should they be put into a position to try.

Our students here in the boonies of New Hampshire, have debated this war many times as well..

But that still doesn't mean they are capable of understanding al facets of the war..

And the big difference is ,that the teachers in our district whether they be democratic or republican, would not have mailed of 21 letters to a soldier overseas without reading them~!!!!

If they had, I would accuse them of being an incompetent teacher as well, and would expect an apology from them as well.

It seems you continue to miss my entire point...

I have said REPEATEDLY that yes, I did make some assumptions that these letters were not written solely by the children.. ( just as you are making an assumption that they were)

it seems to me as an educator, that it is very suspicious.. that many of the letters contained the same wording.. and in my opinion as a teacher, these are not the complete thoughts of an 11 year old.

It appears to me as an educator and to many others, that theses letters had outside influence.

Regardless, the point I am making..the only point I care to make... is that this teacher is incompetent and negligent as he is the one who sent these letters to PFC Jacobs.

He sent inappropriate letters to Private Jacobs... and to this date, this teacher still declines to state if he read these letters before he mailed them or not..

IMHO an innocent man, would step up to the plate and declare his innocence.

And the point some seem to constantly deny, is that regardless of whether he read these letters or not..HE SHOULD HAVE!!!!

And if he didn't read these letters than he needs to be held accountable for not doing his job properly.

AND as is the one who sent these letters to this soldier.

He owes PFC Jacobs an apology in my opinion.

Why anyone would try to debate my opinion, is beyond me, ..they are my opinions. I own them and I stand by them.

At this point I am ONLY accusing him of mailing these inappropriate letters to PFC Jacobs... and it is a fact that he mailed these letters to PFC Jacobs..and for that he owes this young man an apology.

I wasn't quoting Fox..I was quoting Hannity and Colmes who happen to be on Fox..

The difference is that Hannity and Colmes offers both views..not one sided and that was the only point I was trying to make.

Plus the interview with PFC Jacobs father was very interesting. He is very upset that these so called Christmas cards, ended up being letters laced with political rhetoric.

He and his family are very upset, and I don't blame them. I would be to if it was my son who received them.

Hope your puppies are doing well. I have to take my babies to CT tomorrow to see their LLMD.. I hope it doesn't snow as it's a 4 1/2 hour trip on an good day..
Wish us luck.

snow coming here in the morning.(bucks county) between 5 and 10 inche's..

pup's are doing good.right now they are all over me,telling me it is time for bed.smart little thing's.gonna try to get some pix of them in the snow tomorrow.

at least when i fall,the snow will be soft.lol..

behave yourselve's..lol....gary

You said:

I agree 100% with you Lymebrat.......

Phew..I'm glad someone here understands what I am saying

I gets so frustrating when people read what they want into your opinions.. i always find it funny when someone tries to debate my opinion...

Anyways as I said this has nothing to with politics..it has to do with right and wrong.

It has to do with common decency..common sense... somethign this teacher is clearly lacking... in my opinion.

And no matter how you slice it..whether he read those letters before he mailed them or not..he should have!

This teacher sent these letters to PFC Jacobs..a 20 year old soldier..and it was inappropriate. And I hope he is man enough to apologize to him and his family.

Thanks again for the address, I mailed my letter out yesterday.

I won't be around for a couple of days as I have to take my kids to see their LLMD in CT tomorrow and the trip always wipes me out..

But I think I have made my opinions and point pretty clear, if not then it'll have to wait a day or too..lol!

thanks for the well wishes!

My 8 year old son has been on meds for over 2 years, and while he is doing better, he is still having bad joint pain and some other symptoms that just seem to linger.

I am hoping his LLMD will switch his antibiotics tomorrow.

My 6 year old daughter has been on meds for over a year and is doing remarkable well. She is down to one zithromax a day.

It's been a long road ..but they are improving and I am grateful for that. Plus we are blessed to Have Dr.Jones as their LLMD is a wonderful man.

I'm hoping we don't run into any snow..I am so ready for spring!

Have fun with your pups tomorrow. If you can post their photo on here, I'd love to see them in the snow.. I bet they are adorable.

Lymebrat, you base a whole lot of your argument on the following:
"An 11 year old is not capable of understand this issue...and they were only presented with their teachers opinion."

yet your son is how old?
"My son has been writing letters to soldiers for the past year. He is only 8 years old."
and whose opinion is he representing? Or is this 8 year old boy more capable of independent thought than a class of 11 year olds?

now don't go thinking this is a personal attack - note that (in my next post, below) I agree with part of what you (and Mo) are saying.
Here I'm merely pointing out that you are living in a glass house - and it's transparent that how you feel about the issue does depend on the political side taken. That doesn't mean you're shallow - it just means you're doing that.

Dan

But that said, I also think it's critical that kids be given different viewpoints to think about.

Doesn't sound like youre such a big fan of differing opinions

(Appahrently, neither are allot of people.)

Another article on the teacher here, shows that big leaps are being made by some that the kids must have been coached, it seems this "accusation" is due solely to differing opinions on the War.
Aside from the upset that a soldier would recieve these letters..
beyond that, rather than face the kids' opinions, blame an "evil" teacher.

Hannity and others of his ilk have gone nuts with unfair, accusatory, "fire the teacher" campaigns. Yikes.
Pretty sure he wouldn't be doing that if all the letters agreed with his point of view.

IMO, above all..children shouldn't be asked to actually write to soldiers at all under any guise (maybe should rethink the schools across the nation having them do this) becuase the subject is too huge to fully comprehend, but agree with Dan that they should be exposed to differing points of view...

while children of course cannot fully comprehend it, they do certainly have viewpoints and feelings regarding the subject of the Iraq War.

But it seems this project started out as an excercise in free thought, and then the teacher asked the kids if they would mind if the letters were mailed..and this article states half of them agreed to having their's sent.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

TEACHER'S MAIL-CALL SURPRISE

By DAVID ANDREATTA Education Reporter

Brooklyn sixth-graders who enraged a GI with insulting letters they wrote for a social-studies class had no idea when they got the assignment that their missives would be mailed, parents said yesterday.

Two parents of students at JHS 51 in Park Slope said their kids were told to write to a "fictitious soldier or veteran," but the teacher -- who officials now say will be reprimanded -- never indicated the letters would be sent.

Only after the students handed in the assignment, the parents said, did teacher Alex Kunhardt ask them if they objected to their letters being mailed to a soldier.

According to one of the parents, both of whom requested anonymity, about half the students agreed to have their letters sent.

While most of the 21 letters Kunhardt sent to Pfc. Rob Jacobs, stationed near the North Korea border, commended his bravery and touched on serious issues surrounding the Iraq war, about half derided the war or President Bush.

A girl wrote that soldiers "are being forced to kill innocent people," while a boy accused soldiers of "destroying holy places like mosques."

The letters, written shortly after the presidential election, stemmed from a weeks-long exercise in which students discussed current events, including the war, parents said.

"If you could say anything you wanted to a soldier, what would you say?" is how one parent described the assignment. "It was an exercise in having the children think for themselves."

Robert Jacobs Sr., the private's father, said the new information about the assignment suggested the students were "manipulated." He called for Kunhardt's firing.

A city Department of Education spokeswoman said principal Xavier Costello will place a letter of reprimand in Kunhardt's file. The parents insisted that there was nothing underhanded about the assignment, and defended the 32-year-old teacher as a brilliant educator.

"They say that you're lucky if you get one or two great teachers in your lifetime. He's one of them," said one parent, who added that any attempt to fire Kunhardt would be met with fierce resistance.

Both parents objected to suggestions that Kunhardt coached the children in their letters, noting that the kids were allowed to work on the assignment over a weekend.

Kunhardt, who has apologized for the letters, could not be reached yesterday.

I hope you are continuing to feel well. :-)

Dan said:

Lymebrat, you base a whole lot of your argument on the following:
"An 11 year old is not capable of understand this issue...and they were only presented with their teachers opinion."

yet your son is how old?
"My son has been writing letters to soldiers for the past year. He is only 8 years old."
and whose opinion is he representing? Or is this 8 year old boy more capable of independent thought than a class of 11 year olds?

now don't go thinking this is a personal attack - note that (in my next post, below) I agree with part of what you (and Mo) are saying.
Here I'm merely pointing out that you are living in a glass house - and it's transparent that how you feel about the issue does depend on the political side taken. That doesn't mean you're shallow - it just means you're doing that.

Dearest Dan,

How could I ever think you are making a personal attack against me? lol :-)

Now getting to your point, I did state in many posts that I jumped the gun in my initial posts, as I was assuming that this teacher may have shared his political views with the children..and I realize that was wrong.

As was it wrong for others to make assumptions that these are the complete views of these children... without any outside influence.

So as this teacher has still not told us his side of the story, I will not jump to conclusions based on this one point. And I hope others will not as well.

I do however continue to believe that 11 year olds are not capable of forming any type of educated, competent view on a war..one way or the other.

I am a teacher. I have taught 5 - 12 year olds. And from my teaching experience, I stand by my opinion, that an 11 year old is simply incapable of understanding all facets of war. Whether they are from New York or the boonies of New Hampshire.. they are 11 years old..not adults.

I brought up this point,as others here seemed to think that 11 year old children, are able to comprehend this war and are able to make a logical decision about this war...

And I am simply stating that in my experience, an 11 year old is not capable of understanding this or any war.

So I will reiterate, I believe 11 year olds are simply not able to comprehend all facets of war and therefore are unable to make a decision one way or the other...

And my main point was that an 11 year old child shouldn't be asked to even try to comprehend the war!!!!..they are 11!

----------------------

And just incase you missed me stating this repeatedly throughout this thread...my political view truly has nothing to do with why I personally, am upset with this teacher.

I am upset with him as he is the one who sent these letters to PFC Jacobs...Letters that are in my opinion, inappropriate to mail to a 20 year old soldier serving in Korea...

I could care less if he read these letters or not before he mailed them, the point is that any good, competent teacher would have and should have!

So it is on this point alone.... that I am judging him. I don't care if these letters were pro-war, I would still find it wrong.

Pro soldier yes...pro war no. There is a big difference between supporting the individual soldier..a fellow American, overseas doing his or her job..than supporting or not supporting the war.

So I do not agree with you that my political views are transparent on this issue. As I clearly sated I would be just as upset if the children sent inappropriate letters laced with pro war issues.

I am not the one letting their personal political views cloud their judgment about whether this teacher is guilty of sending inappropriate letters to PFC Jacobs... ( I could care less if he read them or not before he mailed them..he should have and should therefore be held accountable)

****----***

As for my son, yes he is 8 years old. And he is a very intelligent little guy..... if I might say so myself. :-)

Now, please don't take this as a personal attack, as I am just pointing out.... that I do take offence to your implying that my son writing to soldiers, has anything to do with my political view or that I live in a glass house.

My son writes letters to his uncles who are serving in Iraq.. uncles he loves dearly and who greatly appreciate letters from their nephew....he writes to them about family issues.. and other 8 year old things....nothing about politics!..

As for the other soldiers he writes to, he has never brought up politics or the war, in those letters either.. not once

How do I known this? As I help him correct his spelling before he sends them out, and as a responsible parent and teacher, I read what he writes to these soldiers.. before I mail them out.

Also, as for your implying that I think my son is somehow more capable of making more independent thoughts, than a class of 11 year olds, I never said nor even implied this..

You are making gross assumptions and unfair comparisons. But this doesn't mean you are shallow, it just means your doing it ;-)

lol! :-D

But seriously it is an unfair comparisons...

The difference between the letters the 11 year olds mailed to PFC Jacobs and the letters my son writes to the soldiers, is that my son has never said one word about the war..not one word.

Why would he??? He is 8 years old!!! and is not capable of making a competent decision or an educated opinion about the war... one way or the other.

So you see, my son is simply writing to soldiers overseas. He is talking to them about how excited he is that The Boston Red Sox won the world series..

how excited he is that he is going to see the Red Sox play for the first time this July...

He also talks about the New England Patriots winning the Super Bowl, his having Lyme Disease, his pets and any other thoughts a little 8 year old boy might have.

And he does want to be a Green Beret like his Uncle Barry. So he does tell some of the soldiers that he wants to be a Green Beret when he grows up....but this is not political...

nor does a little boy wanting to be a Green Beret like his uncle, make a political statement about the War... it just means he loves his Uncle Barry and wants to be like him. I see nothing wrong or political about that...

And to be fair, I guess I may influence him a little too, but only about the Red Sox!!
;-) as I am definitely biased about how much I love this team..

.but as far as politics?...sorry, I don't get into deep discussions about my political views with an 8 year old boy...

I have more important things to do with my 8 year old son, like play baseball, go snowmobiling, have a good old fashioned snowball fight and drink some nice hot cocoa.

That's what 8 and 11 year old children should be doing..having fun!!!... ( in my opinion)

And that's my story and I'm sticking to it...:-)

~LymeBrat

*editing here... I have tried to post this for 3 days and for some reason I have been unable to post anything on lymenet. I can read the posts, but not reply.

So I just disabled the smilies to see if it would help and tadda...here I am. So for some reason I can't post with smiles?

Talk about incompetence.

I would be appalled and extremely upset if my son had such a teacher.

At 11 years old, the children are most probably swayed by their parents, their teacher and/or their peers. It's a fact of life. Anyone who says different must not remember what it is like to be in highschool.

If, by chance, these children did know that these letters were going to be mailed, they need to be taught the correct way and time to make their views known.

Soldier shocked by pupils' letters


24 February 2005

A teacher has apologised for letters sent by his sixth-grade students to an American soldier, accusing the United States military of killing civilians and destroying Iraqi mosques in a futile war on terror.

Alex Kunhardt sent the letters to Private Rob Jacobs for a social studies assignment. Private Jacobs, who is serving 16km from the North Korean border, said his excitement at getting the letters from the Brooklyn schoolchildren turned to shock as he read them.

One of the letters from the 11- to 12-year-old pupils, stamped with a smiley face, said the soldier might have been risking his life for his country, but then asked: "Have you seen how many civilians you or some other soldier killed?"

Another read: "I feel that you are being forced to kill innocent people. Iraq never attacked us, if Bush cared so much about this country then we would be out there trying to find Osama bin Laden. Bush calls this war the war on terrorism. What terrorism? Name one terrorist from Iraq ... I know I can't."

Most letters did include support for the troops, but few were completely uncritical. A Muslim boy wrote: "I know your [sic] trying to save our country and kill the terrorists but you are also destroying holy places like mosques."

Another stated: "Bush thinks he's brave ... in his safe little white house with as many guards as he thinks he needs." He concluded with: "By the way, when you shoot someone, is it great or horrible?"

Private Jacobs (20) told The New York Post: "It's hard enough for soldiers to deal with being away from their families, they don't need to be getting letters like this. If they don't have anything nice to say, they might as well not say anything at all." Private Jacobs added that the letters were demoralising.

Kunhardt apologised this week. "It was never my intention to demean or insult anyone. I never meant for the words of my students to hurt any of our troops," he said.

Private Jacobs's father accepted the apology on his son's behalf.

Guardian Newspapers Limited 2005

I'm glad that Mr.Kunhardt offered an apology to Private Jacobs.... and that he will be reprehended by the school. It's the very least Private Jacobs deserves...

in the article Mo posted, it states:

Two parents of students at JHS 51 in Park Slope said their kids were told to write to a "fictitious soldier or veteran," but the teacher -- who officials now say will be reprimanded -- never indicated the letters would be sent.

Only after the students handed in the assignment, the parents said, did teacher Alex Kunhardt ask them if they objected to their letters being mailed to a soldier.

The letters, written shortly after the presidential election, stemmed from a weeks-long exercise in which students discussed current events, including the war, parents said.

mmmm...this teacher discussed current events including the war, for a week ( five days) and then assigned these 11 year old children, to write a letter to a "fictitious Soldier or Veteran"........

And then once he received these politically anti Bush..anti War charged letters, he then asks these 11 year old children if he can mail them to PFC Jacobs.... a real soldier?????

How odd....Why would he do that?

Why would this teacher ask these 11 year old children to write a letter to a "fictitious soldier or veteran" and then only after receiving these letters, he then asks them if he can mail them to a real soldier????

I wonder what his motives were for sending these "fictitious" letters to a real soldier... a 20 year old kid in Korea??

One has to ask.... what were this teacher's intentions???

Although Mr. Kunhardt has apologized, he has yet to reveal if he did or did not, read the letters in question , before he mailed them to this real life soldier, Private Jacobs.

And now one must ask... did he read these letters Before.. he asked these children, if he could mail their "fictitious letters to a "Soldier or Veteran"" to a real live soldier?

This latest news only adds to my opinion that this teacher was fully aware, that the letters he mailed to Private Jacobs were inappropriate.

The article also stated:

"Robert Jacobs Sr., the private's father, said the new information about the assignment suggested the students were "manipulated." He called for Kunhardt's firing. "

I too agree that IMHO, these kids were manipulated..

the assignment was to write a letter to a "fictitious Soldier or Veteran"...and once the assignment was turned in, this teacher then turns the assignment around, and asks these 11 year old children, if he can mail these "fictitious letters" to a real soldier...

A real soldier... a 20 year old kid in Korea..who didn't deserve to receive such inappropriate letters...IN MY OPINION....

~LymeBrat

.

Bring me my pipe.

You've convinced us, LB.

Alex K is a horrible man who is not the teacher those who know him personally say he is..
even though the parents say that he didn't coach the children in class or in their assignment that they did at home, and feel he is a brilliant teacher..
we all should know better.
Children couln't posibly have any form of Anti-War sentiments of their own unless brainwashed by a dirty Liberal.
The 9 out of the 21 letters that were proposing questions on this War must have come from his direct influence and intentional manipulation.

He is an evil-doer, and efforts should be made to protect our society from such people..maybe he should be fired from his job, as some af the Right are saying.

(At the same time we should continue to support a War in which these very soldiers..thousands of 20 year olds.. are abused beyond comprehension, both in combat and after by the hands of our government..
..a War which is responsible for the deaths of over 100,000 innocents, and terrible increased suffering of the children there as a direct result of the occupation..and what it is doing to children here)..but that's beside the real issue here!

We should be sure to raise our voices against any teacher who would do the unthinkable and allow children to voice views on War.
Will they ever recover such awful abusive instruction? My goodness..to think for themselves regarding a War our country is involved in at present, how shocking and terrible!
(noone here ever said they understood all facets of War at age 11, LB)

And then he was so terribly haneous as to send these views to a soldier. He must have had motives behind the entire assignment.. obviously had a personal vendetta against Jacobs.

Yes..he's a big threat to children and soldiers alike!..so let's get him!!

(LB..just trying to propose a little different perspective )

Mo

OK..

You've convinced us, LB.

Alex K is a horrible man who is not the teacher those who know him personally say he is...

Sorry you feel that my entire posting on this thread was to try to convince you or anyone else for that matter, that this teacher was a horrible man. I never said nor implied that. I do not know what type of man he is..(nor do you for that matter. )

I am only basing my opinion on his teaching skills.... And as a teacher, I stand by my opinion that he used poor judgment (as a teacher), when he mailed these inappropriate letters to Private Jacobs. And as I and others have stated previously, any good teacher would have and should have read those letters before he forwarded them to Private Jacobs.

Nor should he have asked these students to write letters to a "fictitious soldier" and then once they were turned in, ask these students if he could mail them to a "real soldier".

And as I'm sure we can all agree, 11 year old children are very aware of the difference between a "fucticious" and "real".

Mo said:

Children couldn't possibly have any form of Anti-War sentiments of their own unless brainwashed by a dirty Liberal.
The 9 out of the 21 letters that were proposing questions on this War must have come from his direct influence and intentional manipulation.

He is an evil-doer, and efforts should be made to protect our society from such people..maybe he should be fired from his job.

I am not saying that children can not or do not have anti war sentiments, as I am well aware they do.

I am simply stating that it was wrong for these "fictitious" and inappropriate letters be mailed to a "real" soldier..a 20 year old kid in Korea!

Nor have I called anyone a dirty liberal..have I? Pretty sure I didn't here we go jumping to conclusions and making speculations about what others are thinking again..lol!

I also never said he was an evil-doer...but I do stand by my opinion as a teacher, that these letters contained outside influence.

And actually though I do believe this teacher did act negligently when he mailed these letters to Private Jacob, I do not feel he should lose his job over it. In my opinion, a formal apology to Private Jacobs from this teacher and the school is adequate..

Mo said:

(At the same time we should continue to support a War in which these very soldiers..thousands of 20 year olds.. are abused beyond comprehension, both in combat and after by the hands of our government..

No one is asking anyone, especially children!!!!! to support or not support the war. And that is the main point of my argument. This was intended to be a letter to a soldier..not a political statement about the war one way or the other. That was my entire point.

Mo said:

And then he was so terribly haneous as to send these views to a soldier.

Yes Mo, in my opinion, it was "terribly heinous" for this teacher to send these inappropriate letters to Private Jacobs...

It was wrong... IMHO

It saddens and sickens me that this soldier received such inappropriate letters...I can't help but thinking of my loved ones overseas fighting this war, and how they or I would feel, if it was them who received these letters..

I am well aware of freedom of speech, and the bloodshed lost to give us this right. But I think our forefathers would roll over in their graves, if they thought this freedom was being used, to allow a teacher to mail politically laced, inappropriate letters, from 11 year old children, to a 20 year old soldier overseas.

Mo said:

He must have had motives behind the entire assignment.. obviously had a personal vendetta against Jacobs.Yes..he's a big threat to children and soldiers alike!..so let's get him!!

I never said he had a personal vendetta against Private Jacobs...but I do think it is unforgivable for this teacher to mail 21 letters to Private Jacobs..(or ANY SOLDIER) that were as inappropriate, as these letters were. This young man is a soldier, he is someone's son, he is far away from home and was expecting simple letters from home... from 11 year old children..letters to give boost his moral and add a little gleam of hope...not politically laced letters!!!

And I never said he was a threat to children, just that he used poor judgment as a teacher...

as far as a threat to our soldiers, I didn't say that either. But I am willing to bet that there isn't a soldier in the US Military, that would welcome a letter from this teacher's school..

---------

Now, I know it's hard to try and read between the lines and get a true feel for how the poster is stating his or her comments, in a forum like this... but I have to say, I see alot of sarcasm directed toward me and my opinions, in this post....Why? because I don't agree with you???

I am not jumping all over you for your opinions.. that this man did nothing wrong. True, I am bewildered how you can continue to stick up for him, despite the fact that he was the one who mailed these inappropriate letters to Private Jacobs...but I am not making snide sarcastic remarks, or debating your opinion.

Your opinion is your own, and while I disagree with it, I do respect it. My opinion is my own and all I ask is that it is respected as well.

Best Wishes,

~LymeBrat

****editing here:

Mo mentioned in her post below..that she didn't understand what I meant by debating my opinion..

So let me clarify what I mean...I am saying that it's fine to debate the issue..I have no problem with that, I love debating..

but I think it's funny how others want to try to debate mine or anyone else's opinions.

An opinion is just that..my opinion. It is my view, my take , my perspective, my feelings.... my opinions about any given topic.

So as it is my opinion and only mine, it really isn't debatable..lol!

It is what it is, my opinion. As I said, I don't expect anyone to agree with my opinions, just respect them. As I do theirs.

"noone here ever said they understood all facets of War at age 11, LB "

On the first page of this thread I stated that:

" I am all for free speech, but this crossed the line. I don't feel a 6th grader is able to make an educated opinion about the war one way or the other..."

And throughout this thread you and I have debated on an 11 year olds ability to form an educated opinion on the war...

You made several comments on how 11 year olds "were able"... to form an opinion against this war.

And I was simply stating that in my opinion, 11 year olds "are not able" to make decisions of this magnitude.... either anti war or pro war..as in my opinion, they simply can not and do not understand all that is involved in a war..

and that is what I was referring to....

I think anything posted here in OT, especially a strong assertion of opinion.. is up for debate.

..so far as I can figure..I'm debating a topic as I usually do ..and expressing some of my own opinions, info, ect.

I used sarcasm in my last post to further express my opinion and some frustration over the Klundhart bashing that IMO is unfair in it's extent of accusations.
and yes, I do think children are capable of forming theor own opinions, even though they may not understand all facets of a situation like their country being at War. (Many adults do that too, actually)

This is really toward the whole conservative Right outcry we have seen against this teacher. (certainly not just from you alone, LB, nothing personal, OK?)
You did point to the excerpts from NYP, which only included parts of the Anti-War sentiments of the children..and none of the Pro-War.

No War protestors have spoken up about the children's opinions that supported the War.
(An observation.)

The whole "movement" seems unfair and ironic/hypocritical to me.

(As always, IMO..)

Mo