I do feel better! Why is that??

I have a friend who has two vials of B-12 he will give me. I want to know if there's any problem with taking B-12 when my results don't show a deficiency...?

Also, how often should I take the shots? And can I give them subcutaneously? I'm used to doing subQ shots, but not IM shots.

Anybody here taking B-12 without a deficiency?

quote:

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Originally posted by deb obrien:
i've taken 1cc of hydroxycobalamin (10,000mcg/ml compounded at mcguff's) subq for years....

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thanks ali too!

So can I use an insulin syringe [that's what I have] and put that in the fat on my tummy?
or do I have to put it into my arm or thigh???

I just wanted to say howdy and see how you are feeling.I hope you are better?

Now you are going to be stickin yourself,wow.When I was little,they would have to chase me down,over,under around the room, before I could let that ole needle go in me.

Boy have times changed!Good luck,hope it helps you,give us the low down,OK?

When I first started using it a couple of years ago, it had a very positive effect. I used it for several months, during which time I stopped noticing a difference so I stopped.

After being off it for about a year, I've restarted. It is hard to tell what it might be doing because my new meds seem to be helping, too.

Keep in mind that Dr. D (Cape Cod) says that the B's (among others) feed the Bb, so you have to decide if you are willing to risk feeding the ketes to get some B12 to your neuro and immune systems. (This would be an easier decision to make if we could know what percent of any nutrient went to the immune system vs. the ketes, and what effect it had on each, to determine if feeding the ketes was more than offset by the boost to the immune system.)

I use 27 gauge needles, 1 1/4" long. I found that the shorter needles left my skin stained (the stuff is red) because the B-12 was too close to the surface.

I don't know if you need B12 or not, but my mom got her shots in the arm. Will your husband be willing to take a stab at it?

quote:

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Originally posted by Pocono Lyme:
It is to be administered IM, but the needle is pretty equivalent to an insulin syringe/needle. The tummy wouldn't be the ideal place to administer.

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Well, bummer! That's makes things a bit tougher. Not sure I can give it in my arm....and I know hubby wouldn't do it. The shot I rec'd in the dr's office was in my arm.

I would need different needles too. [I have 31 gauge for growth hormone]

3 great kids....here's my update from a week ago. http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum3/HTML/013358.html

For the question about which abx I was given in the hospital, it was a form of IV penicillin. I wrote it down and now I can't find it.

I'm doing better, just very short on energy and my threshold for pain is way down. The B-12 helped my energy and my poor little brain!

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Do not take anything I say as medical advice. I am not a doctor, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express!
oops!
Lymetutu

I took B-12 every other day for a long time, I used insulin syringes and just stabbed

myself in the thigh. Just pull back on it to make sure you have no blood return. Never had a problem and

they made me feel better. I wasn't tested either. Went to a homeopathic doc and he

said do it so I did. They don't hurt. Am going to ask Daughter's LLMD if she needs them when we see him next week.

I find B-12 really helps with my stamina and energy level. You should also take other B vitamins with it. There is probably enough of them in your everyday all-purpose vitamin pill.

Here is a good article on the subject.
[quote]
Vitamin B12 by mouth as good as injection
By Pippa Wysong
Tuesday August 29[2000] 10:21 AM ET

TORONTO (Reuters Health) - People who need vitamin B12 replacement may not need to get a shot in the arm after all. Instead, they can use a form of the vitamin that dissolves under the tongue.

In a study presented at the 28th World Congress of the International Society of Hematology, researchers revealed that a sub-lingual form of the vitamin is just as effective as an intramuscular shot.

The vitamin is available in the form of small nuggets, which need to be placed under the tongue to dissolve.

Dr. Pinhas Stark, from the Institute of Hematology and the Department of Gastroenterology at the Rabin Medical Center in Petah Tiqva, Israel, reported that blood levels of 18 patients deficient in vitamin B12 increased to normal levels after only a few days of treatment.

Of the patients, five had pernicious anemia, two had Crohn's disease, and seven were vegetarian. All started off with blood levels of vitamin B12 (also called cobalamin) close to half of what it should have been. Four of the patients had been long-term blood donors, but were not anemic.

The study was done because B12 injections are a problem with some patients, leading them to stop treatment. ``Injections can be painful, problematic in patients with bleeding tendency, or in patients who are extremely thin. It can be difficult to provide for patients who are elderly or disabled, and costly when given by health professionals,'' Stark said.

The patients were asked to take two of the sub-lingual nuggets daily for 7 to 10 days, half an hour before breakfast, but after drinking a glass of water.

Each nugget contains 1,000 micrograms of vitamin B12, and are available over-the-counter.

All the patients eventually attained normal blood levels of the vitamin. Most either doubled or quadrupled their initial deficient levels, and no side effects were reported. [end quote]

Thanks all.....for all of the good information.

Somewhere in my reading, i read that some conventional docs with a lot of experience using B12 view the B12 test at the least unreliable, and at the worst worthless. no reason was given.

On blood levels achieved by different routes:

the late carlton fredricks, radio nutritionist on WOR once quoted a study which compared two methods for giving B12, the sublingual form and the injectible.
the results were that desired blood levels were achieved by either route. i don't recall what sublingual form he stated, nor what form of the injectible B12 was used, in the study;i.e., the cyano- , methyl, hydroxyl, or some toher form.

the main result was that desired levels of B12 were achieved.

taken together:
as most of us know, both B12 and folate(folic acid) should be taken together, unless one doctors states otherwise.

3 reasons i recall:

1. having to do with pernicious anemia

2. masking pernicious anemia by giving the one or the other vitamin only.

3. giving an excess of one of these two, promotes, and/or causes deficit of the other.

On overdosage:
One radio doc(alternative), c. 1999 to 2001, once quoted rheumatology study from a rheumatological journal about B12 promoting tumour growth.
I inferred from the quote that excess of B12 promoted tumour formation.

From personal experience back in 1999, when i was really "neuro'd out" and fully expecting the end any minute,24/7 for 18 months,to drop dead, i had developed a mass on the left side of my back, specifically behind, in or on the muscle. I never had it examined, and couldn't see a doc period due to no money. I had been taking some form of B12 at the time in larger than recommended doses, but not extremely large doses. I had this 'mass' for about 3 weeks, after which it disappeared.

In retrospect, i attributed the 'mass' to the B12, as it was about the only thing i was taking at the time.

I had either quit it, or exhausted the B12 supply, and had instituted some herbal-supplement product that had astragulus in it( Thymulus by Enzym. Ther.), then did pancreatin after finishing this or vice versa. i forget the ORDER in which i did these, but separately.

anyway, i attribute the disappearance of the mass either to the quitting of the B12, because i was taking too much, the starting of the astragulus product above, and/or the pancreatin.

a year after this, i heard the radio-doc's quote of the rheumtology journal's study.

Several years prior to Lyme diagnosis hubby had problem with dizziness -- neuro exam ok --B12 level was around 220 I think -- primary care provider ordered weekly B12 shots for 3 months (said her patients felt better with levels around 600 or higher)-- immediate improvement in balance and energy levels with shots -- leveled off after 1st month or 2 -- retested and B12 was off the chart.

B12 is stored in the liver -- your body is supposed to be able to store a 5 year supply -- so I don't think you have to worry about overdoing it.

A friendly warning regarding B12 for Lyme patients -- Dr B on Long Island warned hubby that Lyme patients needed to start at low doses and those with overly sensitive nervous systems could experience adverse reactions.

Also per Dr B, if doing shots and the dose is high enough to saturate the tissues your urine should be slightly pink.

Bea Seibert

ali....what gauge did you use??