Topic: Any scientists or really smart people hanging around? p450 gene?
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
I know we are are all smart.
I reposted this question from another post moved it here.
Any scientists hanging around?
Question the cytochrome p450 gene could it be ingulfed incorperated {{Mutations}} into another ?
Like this you have a tick that feeds on mice deer etc they have p450 genes. Now this tick carries lyme spirochete it gets injected into mouse or deer. Now we know spirochetes attack phagocytes in humans. Could they or are they picking up in each cycle spirochete to mouse to deer or human the original p450 in each host??
Then there by combining mouse ,deer human p450 genes?
Could this be the reason for there ability too withstand antibiotics??
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
up for comments?
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
bpeck
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3235
posted
Hi Guys:
Substance metabolism: The P450 system is the name for a group of enzymes in the liver which breaks down substances that pass thru the liver. Most living organisms have this system. In humans- about 50% of the drugs we take are metabolixed thru this system. (There are other drug metabolic pathyways- but we'll stick to this one for this discussion).
In some people, there are variations of how these enzymes work- that's why some people can take some drugs without a reaction and others can't - it's just they way certain individuals systems work.
Then there's drug interactions at either inhibit for excellerate the metabolism of drugs - and even this can be affected by a persons genetic variation of the P450 system.
This is true in other organisms too.
Bacterial Variants: A variant is a form that the bacteria can change itself into to avoid being affected by a drug - and it can change it'self back to it's original form when the threat is removed.
Bacterial mutation: Some organisms mutate when threatened continually by a substance. A mutation stays this way, it's forever resistant to a previous drug that could kill it.
I think you may be confusing drug resistance (of bacteria) to certain medications. This is when under the pressure of antibiotics, the (bacteria) organism mutates, so that it's no longer susceptible to the antibiotic it was before the mutation.
An organism is only called pathogenic if it can infect and make someone sick.
A carrier is a person who can carry a pathogen but it does not make them sick- but if that pathogen is passed to another susceptible person it can make them sick. This is a complicate mechanism involving genetics and the immune system.
But the important thing to remember is that the P450 system is not part of our immune system- it's part of the metabolic system that breaks down and removes substances from the body. It doesn't attack per se bacteria (although some of the enzymes may be responsible for breaking down their by-products).
Hope this isn't too confusing.. and that it helps your understanding.
Barb
-------------------- Barb Peck (Elder LymeNet user). Lyme since 1975 Transfusion Posts: 1882 | From VT | Registered: Oct 2002
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
quote:Originally posted by bpeck: Hi Guys:
Substance metabolism: The P450 system is the name for a group of enzymes in the liver which breaks down substances that pass thru the liver. Most living organisms have this system. In humans- about 50% of the drugs we take are metabolixed thru this system. (There are other drug metabolic pathyways- but we'll stick to this one for this discussion).
In some people, there are variations of how these enzymes work- that's why some people can take some drugs without a reaction and others can't - it's just they way certain individuals systems work.
Then there's drug interactions at either inhibit for excellerate the metabolism of drugs - and even this can be affected by a persons genetic variation of the P450 system.
This is true in other organisms too.
Bacterial Variants: A variant is a form that the bacteria can change itself into to avoid being affected by a drug - and it can change it'self back to it's original form when the threat is removed.
Bacterial mutation: Some organisms mutate when threatened continually by a substance. A mutation stays this way, it's forever resistant to a previous drug that could kill it.
I think you may be confusing drug resistance (of bacteria) to certain medications. This is when under the pressure of antibiotics, the (bacteria) organism mutates, so that it's no longer susceptible to the antibiotic it was before the mutation.
An organism is only called pathogenic if it can infect and make someone sick.
A carrier is a person who can carry a pathogen but it does not make them sick- but if that pathogen is passed to another susceptible person it can make them sick. This is a complicate mechanism involving genetics and the immune system.
But the important thing to remember is that the P450 system is not part of our immune system- it's part of the metabolic system that breaks down and removes substances from the body. It doesn't attack per se bacteria (although some of the enzymes may be responsible for breaking down their by-products).
Hope this isn't too confusing.. and that it helps your understanding.
Barb
I understand that what Iam saying if {Homo sapiens =57 or Mus musculus mouse = 102} {cytochrome p450 is a gene} Then if through {spirochete has these too CYP's} They absorb mutate this in the ability to process Like you said part of the metabolic system that breaks down and removes substances from the body.it thus has a way to deal with problem of why the Bb spirochete has so much more dna than other bacteria.
Also if it can process abx chemicals so that it can metabolise them well there you go.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
borrelia actually have small genomes for a bacteria. they have a small amount of total DNA. the problem is that it is distributed on a record number of plasmids.{~20,+ the chromosome}
Posts: 523 | From Stillwater,OK,USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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Marnie
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posted
They have more than the syphilis spirochete as I understand...
So they are even MORE complex...
Mg is capable of "stimulating DNA REPAIR"...mdschoice website which I have linked numerous times.
DNA repair?! WOW!!!
P.S. Enzymes are proteins and Mg (and other nutrients are needed to MAKE all proteins). Mg also controls many, many enzymes. The liver stores a lot of Mg...
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
So is the P450 pathway a collection of enzymes in the liver that process stuff? OR is it an entire metabolic system?
I find Tree's hypothesis here quite interesting...could the P450 enzymes from other mammals be collected in the tick and thus produce a spirochete with a varied DNA? OR is the DNA already established and unchanging in the spirochete.
I have done a little research with the P450 pathway because I had a Stevens-Johnson Syndrome type reaction to Sulpha drugs. It is a hereditary condition and I found out after having it that it is what my half brother had ten years ago.
So I find all of this interesting while I still have such a minimal understanding of it.
I have been mulling over it in my head after my sulfa reaction - wondering if this could be part of the piece that contributes to why some people's bodies can handle lyme and fight it and others can't...
Just fun to question and think about for me...
-------------------- �Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right.� - Ezre Taft Benson Posts: 655 | From NC, Exit 88 on the Deer SuperHighway | Registered: Dec 2004
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bpeck
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3235
posted
Lymied: The P450 enzyme system is PART of the entire metabolic system. It's not the entire system-
Yes- there are genetic differences in some people's p450 enzymes pathways, thats why is so dangerous to call all adverse reactions when taking an abx a herx. It could well be your bodies in ability to metabolize the drug the way other people do.
Barb
-------------------- Barb Peck (Elder LymeNet user). Lyme since 1975 Transfusion Posts: 1882 | From VT | Registered: Oct 2002
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mlkeen
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Member # 1260
posted
Mg= DNA repair. Yet another reason I love Mg! Thanks Marnie.
Posts: 1572 | From Pa | Registered: Jun 2001
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
"Cytochrome P450 is a family of the body's more powerful detox ENZYMES . Over 60 key forms are known, with hundreds of genetic variations possible,
producing a wide variety of susceptibility to specific toxins.
As the saying goes, "One man's meat is another man's poison".
Keep in mind...enzymes are PROTEINS.
P450 enzymes are not ONLY in the liver.
"Long term inhibition of heme synthesis due to P450 insufficiency may cause anemia. "
These enzymes can be damaged by ...ethanol...thanks to nasty Bb.
"Mechanisms by which: 1) consumption of alcoholic beverages increases liver damage from acetaminophen and 2) arsenic decreases cytochromes P450 in the liver and the relation of such decreases to development of cancer and liver damage."
What ELSE does ethanol do...
Acute and chronic ethanol administration results in a decrease in cellular Mg2+ content and an alteration of Mg2+ TRANSPORT in liver cells.
PMID: 16257349
This activity is also associated with the generation of free radicals with resulting lipid peroxidation and membrane damage as well as depletion of mitochondrial reduced glutathione (GSH) and its ultimate precursor, namely methionine activated to S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe).
Its repletion restores liver functions.
Administration of polyenylphosphatidylcholine (PPC), a mixture of unsaturated phosphatidylcholines (PC) extracted from soybeans,
*restores the structure of the membranes and the function of the corresponding enzymes.
Ethanol impairs the conversion of beta-carotene to vitamin A and depletes hepatic vitamin A and, when it is given together with vitamin A or beta-carotene, hepatotoxicity is potentiated. Our present therapeutic approach is to reduce excess alcohol consumption by the Brief Intervention technique found to be very successful.
We correct hepatic SAMe depletion and supplementation with PPC has some favorable effects on parameters of liver damage which continue to be evaluated.
PMID: 16363067
The mechanism by which ethanol induces beta-endorphin (beta-EP) NEURONS DEATH during the developmental period was determined using fetal rat hypothalamic neurons in primary cultures. The addition of ethanol to hypothalamic cell cultures stimulated apoptotic cell death of primarily beta-EP neurons by increasing caspase-3 activity. PMID: 16326933
Black Tea Extract (BTE), a phytocompound has been attributed with a plethora of health-promoting actions. We have previously demonstrated that BTE inhibits chronic hepatitis in a rat model induced with high-fat and ethanol (EtOH). This study reports that BTE prevents altered pancreatic acinar cell functions, oxidative stress, inflammatory changes and DNA damage in the EtOH+cholecystokinin (CCK)-induced model of pancreatitis.
These findings suggest that BTE prevents pancreatitis caused by chronic EtOH+CCK toxicity presumably by enhancing *antioxidant*, anti-inflammatory and antiapoptotic activity in rats.
PMID: 16289561
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
My brain hurts:)
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
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