posted
Last night I visited a friend and we sat in a dry sauna that wasn't too hot. It took an hour to build up a sweat and it was a very relaxing experience.
So then today I checked out a gym with a dry sauna and it was much hotter, such that I'd probably only last around ten minutes before I'd have to pop out.
My question regards detoxing: can we detox adequately in a hotter sauna which we can't stay in very long, vs one that we can stay in longer?
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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clairenotes
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I really don't have any official guidelines, but I like to stay in the sauna for 30 minutes at a fairly high temperature (135-140 in far infrared). I don't always sweat a lot, but that is what I like to see happen because it makes me feel as though some type of detox is occurring. But even if I don't sweat a lot, I still feel that the heat alone provides some benefit.
I would like to think that your hour sauna experience is helping, especially if you did work up a sweat. I don't know enough about a shortened dry sauna session, but perhaps if it is hot enough there could still be some benefit to that as well.
Hopefully someone will have some better answers for you.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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I have an infrared sauna and my docter says you do not have to sweat to make it beneficial. He started me at 15 mins. Make sure and drink lots of water. I believe with the regular saunas that are not infrared you want to sweat to get optimum results. This an hot epsom salt baths have greatly helped me detox.
Good luck Posts: 30 | From northern california | Registered: May 2007
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GiGi
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Clairnotes, I also thought for the longest time that I am not really sweatting all that much in the FIR Sauna. I then started to use my little towel from the first few minutes on after being in the sauna, repeatedly wiping ; and found that my towel is wet, quite wet, after 15-20 minutes at 130F. I think unless you start wiping early, the perspiration dries up. I got alert to this when Dr. K. said "mop all the time, all body front and back, while sitting, otherwise you reabsorb.
I was also told to not share a sauna with others - because of the mercury vapor, etc. that is then on the walls, etc. No sauna in early metal detox phase. Mercury vapor can easily be tested and measured/instrument -- dentist's offices, walls and carpeting are loaded.
I do think the benefit of FIR is the light and depth of penetration. There is great info on Sauna Infrared vs. Steam. Anyoone interested google it. Also lots of talk here if you do a search on Sauna.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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clairenotes
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Gigi -- before I purchased a sauna, I saw some of your notes from a previous topic about using a towel to wipe the sweat frequently throughout the sauna session. It made sense. Your experience is interesting. I guess I didn't realize it is still important to do even if it appears you are not sweating.
I agree that it is better to take a sauna alone. But I wonder if the sauna is extremely large, and you could sit farther away, if that might make it safe for more then one individual to be in it? Seems like it could be a nice social activity to do with a friend.
Carpeting? Yuck!! I had no idea. But I am glad to know -- better to be informed.
Your thoughts are always appreciated.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
The lower-heat sauna and the hotter sauna I was in are not far infrared saunas, so my questions are these:
1st, can we still detox ok in these regular saunas?
2nd, does it matter if we're in longer in a lower heat sauna than less time in a hotter one? Seems to me we might not sweat/detox as much in a hotter one that we have to leave earlier.
3rd, does just being heated environments help, since ketes don't like the heat?
If anyone knows...
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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sixgoofykids
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I have read that the perspiration from a regular sauna is 97% water, but from a FIR sauna is 80-85% water.
That means more toxins are expelled in a FIR sauna. That is important as far as detox.
I would think, but this is pure conjecture on my part, that the raise in body temperature would also be an aide. Obviously, it's better if you can detox AND raise your body temp.
There are some pretty inexpensive FIR saunas. I have a friend who bought a portable one for about $300.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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GiGi
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To get a clearer understanding of the difference of IR, FIR, and steam sauna, it really is best to google.
I suspect that the heat needed to kill spirochetes might kill us before it gets at them.
The penetration in the IR Sauna are much deeper than the steam sauna and therefore I am sure more effective and you need less time to be in there. Sitting in an heated sauna of any kind, once it gets too hot for the individual, it starts to do more damage by stressing the body. That is not a good way to heal.
I have days where I can tolerate the temperature longer than on other days. I strictly go by that. If it stresses me - I leave. Same for my husband.
The problem with overuse is not recognizing that you are mobilizing toxins, not all of them exit with sweat. If you are still heavy metal toxic, as many people are without knowing it, sauna may not be the right thing for you until the body burden is lowered. Never go into a sauna without following it afterwards with chlorella, etc. to catch all the neurotoxins.
I think the IR Sauna is definitely more beneficial, but if you only have access to a steam, do it to tolerance and then get out and clean yourself so as not to reabsorb. The real life steam sauna is followed by a roll in the snow - and that is really an experience. I did it many years ago in the midst of winter .....
We invested in a good sauna a number of years ago. We are always using it and we consider it a lifetime investment. We do without a few other things to have it and to be able to grow even older more gracefully! It has paid for itself in many, many ways. I definitely think the head should be inside the sauna. Interestingly, my major problems were always in my face and head and I always found this area to be the first to sweat. The rest of the body followed later during the stay in the box. (3.5x3.5x7.5' approx.)
Please google and learn about the different systems. There is a lot of info.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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GiGi
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Thx Gigi and all. Is there any way to find a cheap used far infrared sauna? I can't afford the price of new ones.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Dave6002
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I ditto GiGi: the heat needed to kill spirochetes might kill us before it gets at them.
Using heat to kill Lyme pathogens is unrealistic.
However, like you said, Lyme pathogens don't like high temperature.
So lower temperature but longer timer would be more beneficial.
I am envisioning that living in an environment that can raise the body temperature 1 to 3 degrees for less than one year would cure Lyme completely.
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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Keebler
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just some considerations:
1. I THINK I read a few months ago 109 degrees F. is needed to kill spirochetes at a certain length of time. The researcher determined that it would be impossible for a human to do that.
(edit to add: It would not be safe to even attempt. "Don't do this at home, etc. sort of warning, of course.)
(if I find the citation, I'll come back and post it).
2. be VERY careful with heat from regular dry or steam saunas as it can put serious stress on the HEART. FAR Infrared saunas are not as stressful. But I think the temp was to be around 95-105 or at least much lower than even a hot bath (which also can stress the heart).
Lower heat in a regular sauna may be helpful, I'd think. (but I'm not an expert. I just pass out if I get too hot.)
You can search "Far Infrared Sauna, congestive heart failure" on PubMed. Impressive research on the difference between types of heat. (But they did not test regular saunas at lower heat.)
3. Get expert advice on time and fluids and Electrolytes replacement. Be gentle and patient.
4. While a sauna at a low or moderate temp. that won't push the heart may not kill the 'ketes, it can help us sweat out toxins from the the 'ketes . . . or reduce viruses (?), heavy metals and generally get the lymph moving out debris. It may offer some of the benefits of exercise without stress on the heart IF not too hot or too long.
5. Be VERY careful if you buy a sauna. One of the companies that say there's no plywood or particle board (hence, glues, FORMALDEHYDE, other chemicals in the wood) has been known to lie.
I have a friend with MCS bought a FAR sauna from a company recommended in Sherry Rogers detox book, and some of their units have been found to contain plywood. She found it in hers after years of telling the company that everytime she used it it made her sicker. Although she found the bad material, they will not take it back.
6. Many people with MCS cannot "do" cedar. There is a good company making glass ones and some with other good woods.
7. just from the requirement of using solid wood - the high cost & space - personal saunas for everyone might be hard - it's nice if you can (and then plant lots of trees) but it would be nice to have much more affordable and space saving options. I also wonder about the mark up on sauna rooms. Do the materials and workmanship really cost that much?
There is a guy in Ariz, I think, who has a canvas tent and lights. I believe he thought the LIGHT was important, and the canvas-like tent is so much more environmentally friendly and affordable. His point about the LIGHT is very good.
Has anyone gotten that set?
I'd like to find infrared panels for a closet but can't seem to locate them. There are some nice mats and half domes, but I agree with GiGi in thinking the whole body should be in there.. Also the cost for the abbreviated versions is also off the charts.
For any other devices, you might ask if it is shielded (to lower EMF) . . . about just plugging it into your wall safetly for the circuit breaker or fuse box and if an extention cord would be safe.
7. a if you do order one, usually it is CURB dropoff. YOU have to get it into your house and that's a mighty task. These units are VERY heavy, no matter how easy the video looks at putting it together. Get strong buddies to help.
[ 15. October 2007, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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here is the canvas Far Infrared light sauna that I came across years ago that looks interesting. Site looks current. Articles there, too.
ELECTRIC SPACE HEATER INFRARED I-SOLAR BIO-CERAMIC SPACE HEATER HALOGEN BIO-ENERGY - about $200.00
* The Halogen Tubes use heat resistant Stainless steel with Electromagnetic Wave - Blocking Coating Material inside of the tubes. --------- Sounds like the EMF issue is addressed . . . but when I hear ``Halogen'' I think of a HUMMMM. I've used cheaper models similar to this for overnights and the humm fried me.
However, this unit looks far more advanced, so it may not hum.
GREAT PHOTOS at link. and a link to other heaters they have, but this seems to be the only far infrared.
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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GiGi
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A high enough internal body temperature would kill us before it kills any spirochete. We are already out of action at a 103F temp and getting delirious at most any temp above that, with possible longterm damage.
Saunas helps us detox, if, if, if we are doing it right and start to help clean up some of the body terrain. If we manage to do that, we have gotten rid of toxic metals and chemicals, at least some of them, which then makes life for the spirochete much less attractive inside us.
A well oxygenated and fairly clean body it not where spirochetes are very happy for very long.
Cleaning up the body by addressing all "Five Levels of Healing" which I posted several times is what it took for me, and then Lyme Disease and other microbial infections slowly became a thing of the past. I am afraid --- that is the only way. I would love to hear of another way of doing it - but so far - in over ten years, I have not heard of it.
Take care.
P.S. If you do sauna, go into it with a small towels sprayed with olive oil or other good oil. As soon as you have been in there for a bit, keep wiping yourself and put the towel in a plastic bag and set it outside. The toxins we are releasing as well as heavy metals have an affinity for lipids and will hang themselves on the skin and reabsorbed. That's why you never want to share a public sauna or even a sauna that goes beyond your family. The stuff hangs on the wall and seats unless you dispose of it while you are in there. I used to wipe myself with one towel only and it became quite wet over the 15 or so minutes. I recently learned about the oil coated towel from my doctor. And that is what we do now - tossing them in a bag until done in the shower and then into the washing machine.
Vapors! and then solid again. I have posted about that in length until I got tired of being shot at -- I think it was a thread "Understanding Mercury".
And be sure to take a cold shower, as cold as you can stand after the sauna to close the pores.
This is what I learned and it worked.
[ 14. October 2007, 02:37 AM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Keebler
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for creating a sauna environment without the sauna room itself:
Amazon has a several infrared heaters, but not sure of quality.
There is a Clairion FAR INFRARED for $48. Be sure you look for FAR infrared (or FIR) - not just infrared as there are other types.
Some heaters at Amazon have reviews from customers. I'd also look for a unit with a replaceable bulb and a warranty. You can often link directly to the company selling it.
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