posted
noticed in a post on the MP that vitamin D levels is an issue. Is Vitamin D levels an issue period, especially with Lyme? What is the signifigance?
My levels are low and supplementing with Nasal spray.
-------------------- Seeking renewed health & vitality. --------------------------------- Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr! Posts: 830 | From TN | Registered: Aug 2007
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Hi cj,
Your question about Vit D is a good one with proponents on each side of the issue.
Recently Canadian researchers determined Vit D can cut your chance of certain cancers by 60-70%. That is very significant. American research evidently agrees as I have read America is about to up its daily recommended amount of Vit D.
Here is an article I kept. I'm not sure it is the best one, but a quick google of Vit D and cancer will bring up the current research.
Source: USA Today 5/21/05
Vitamin D reserach may have doctors prescribing sunshine The Associated Press Scientists are excited about a vitamin again. But unlike fads that sizzled and fizzled, the evidence this time is strong and keeps growing.
The sun is a good thing. Dr. Michael Holick, posing in a tanning bed, says that ultraviolet radiation helps the body produce Vitamin D.
By Steven Senne, AP If it bears out, it will challenge one of medicine's most fundamental beliefs: that people need to coat themselves with sunscreen whenever they're in the sun. Doing that may actually contribute to far more cancer deaths than it prevents, some researchers think.
The vitamin is D, nicknamed the "sunshine vitamin" because the skin makes it from ultraviolet rays. Sunscreen blocks its production, but dermatologists and health agencies have long preached that such lotions are needed to prevent skin cancer.
Now some scientists are questioning that advice. The reason is that vitamin D increasingly seems important for preventing and even treating many types of cancer. In the last three months alone, four separate studies found it helped protect against lymphoma and cancers of the prostate, lung and, ironically, the skin. The strongest evidence is for colon cancer.
Many people aren't getting enough vitamin D. It's hard to do from food and fortified milk alone, and supplements are problematic.
So the thinking is this: Even if too much sun leads to skin cancer, which is rarely deadly, too little sun may be worse.
No one is suggesting that people fry on a beach. But many scientists believe that "safe sun" -- 15 minutes or so a few times a week without sunscreen -- is not only possible but helpful to health.
One is Dr. Edward Giovannucci, a Harvard University professor of medicine and nutrition who laid out his case in a keynote lecture at a recent American Association for Cancer Research meeting in Anaheim, Calif.
His research suggests that vitamin D might help prevent 30 deaths for each one caused by skin cancer.
"I would challenge anyone to find an area or nutrient or any factor that has such consistent anti-cancer benefits as vitamin D," Giovannucci told the cancer scientists. "The data are really quite remarkable."
The talk so impressed the American Cancer Society's chief epidemiologist, Dr. Michael Thun, that the society is reviewing its sun protection guidelines. "There is now intriguing evidence that vitamin D may have a role in the prevention as well as treatment of certain cancers," Thun said.
Even some dermatologists may be coming around. "I find the evidence to be mounting and increasingly compelling," said Dr. Allan Halpern, dermatology chief at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York, who advises several cancer groups.
The dilemma, he said, is a lack of consensus on how much vitamin D is needed or the best way to get it.
No source is ideal. Even if sunshine were to be recommended, the amount needed would depend on the season, time of day, where a person lives, skin color and other factors. Thun and others worry that folks might overdo it.
"People tend to go overboard with even a hint of encouragement to get more sun exposure," Thun said, adding that he'd prefer people get more of the nutrient from food or pills.
But this is difficult. Vitamin D occurs naturally in salmon, tuna and other oily fish, and is routinely added to milk. However, diet accounts for very little of the vitamin D circulating in blood, Giovannucci said.
Supplements contain the nutrient, but most use an old form -- D-2 -- that is far less potent than the more desirable D-3. Multivitamins typically contain only small amounts of D-2 and include vitamin A, which offsets many of D's benefits. As a result, pills might not raise vitamin D levels much at all.
Government advisers can't even agree on an RDA, or recommended daily allowance for vitamin D. Instead, they say "adequate intake" is 200 international units a day up to age 50, 400 IUs for ages 50 to 70, and 600 IUs for people over 70.
Many scientists think adults need 1,000 IUs a day. Giovannucci's research suggests 1,500 IUs might be needed to significantly curb cancer. How vitamin D may do this is still under study, but there are lots of reasons to think it can:
_Several studies observing large groups of people found that those with higher vitamin D levels also had lower rates of cancer. For some of these studies, doctors had blood samples to measure vitamin D, making the findings particularly strong.
Even so, these studies aren't the gold standard of medical research -- a comparison over many years of a large group of people who were given the vitamin with a large group who didn't take it. In the past, the best research has deflated health claims involving other nutrients, including vitamin E and beta carotene.
_Lab and animal studies show that vitamin D stifles abnormal cell growth, helps cells die when they are supposed to, and curbs formation of blood vessels that feed tumors.
_Cancer is more common in the elderly, and the skin makes less vitamin D as people age.
_Blacks have higher rates of cancer than whites and more pigment in their skin, which prevents them from making much vitamin D.
_Vitamin D gets trapped in fat, so obese people have lower blood levels of D. They also have higher rates of cancer.
_Diabetics, too, are prone to cancer, and their damaged kidneys have trouble converting vitamin D into a form the body can use.
_People in the northeastern United States and northerly regions of the globe like Scandinavia have higher cancer rates than those who get more sunshine year-round.
During short winter days, the sun's rays come in at too oblique an angle to spur the skin to make vitamin D. That is why nutrition experts think vitamin D-3 supplements may be especially helpful during winter, and for dark-skinned people all the time.
But too much of the pill variety can cause a dangerous buildup of calcium in the body. The government says 2,000 IUs is the upper daily limit for anyone over a year old.
On the other hand, D from sunshine has no such limit. It's almost impossible to overdose when getting it this way. However, it is possible to get skin cancer. And this is where the dermatology establishment and Dr. Michael Holick part company.
Thirty years ago, Holick helped make the landmark discovery of how vitamin D works. Until last year, he was chief of endocrinology, nutrition and diabetes and a professor of dermatology at Boston University. Then he published a book, "The UV Advantage," urging people to get enough sunlight to make vitamin D.
"I am advocating common sense," not prolonged sunbathing or tanning salons, Holick said.
Skin cancer is rarely fatal, he notes. The most deadly form, melanoma, accounts for only 7,770 of the 570,280 cancer deaths expected to occur in the United States this year.
More than 1 million milder forms of skin cancer will occur, and these are the ones tied to chronic or prolonged suntanning.
Repeated sunburns -- especially in childhood and among redheads and very fair-skinned people -- have been linked to melanoma, but there is no credible scientific evidence that moderate sun exposure causes it, Holick contends.
"The problem has been that the American Academy of Dermatology has been unchallenged for 20 years," he says. "They have brainwashed the public at every level."
The head of Holick's department, Dr. Barbara Gilchrest, called his book an embarrassment and stripped him of his dermatology professorship, although he kept his other posts.
She also faulted his industry ties. Holick said the school has received $150,000 in grants from the Indoor Tanning Association for his research, far less than the consulting deals and grants that other scientists routinely take from drug companies.
In fact, industry has spent money attacking him. One such statement from the Sun Safety Alliance, funded in part by Coppertone and drug store chains, declared that "sunning to prevent vitamin D deficiency is like smoking to combat anxiety."
Earlier this month, the dermatology academy launched a "Don't Seek the Sun" campaign calling any advice to get sun "irresponsible." It quoted Dr. Vincent DeLeo, a Columbia University dermatologist, as saying: "Under no circumstances should anyone be misled into thinking that natural sunlight or tanning beds are better sources of vitamin D than foods or nutritional supplements."
That opinion is hardly unanimous, though, even among dermatologists.
"The statement that 'no sun exposure is good' I don't think is correct anymore," said Dr. Henry Lim, chairman of dermatology at Henry Ford Health System in Detroit and an academy vice president.
Some wonder if vitamin D may turn out to be like another vitamin, folate. High intake of it was once thought to be important mostly for pregnant women, to prevent birth defects. However, since food makers began adding extra folate to flour in 1998, heart disease, stroke, blood pressure, colon cancer and osteoporosis have all fallen, suggesting the general public may have been folate-deficient after all.
With vitamin D, "some people believe that it is a partial deficiency that increases the cancer risk," said Hector DeLuca, a University of Wisconsin-Madison biochemist who did landmark studies on the nutrient.
About a dozen major studies are under way to test vitamin D's ability to ward off cancer, said Dr. Peter Greenwald, chief of cancer prevention for the National Cancer Institute. Several others are testing its potential to treat the disease. Two recent studies reported encouraging signs in prostate and lung cancer.
As for sunshine, experts recommend moderation until more evidence is in hand.
"The skin can handle it, just like the liver can handle alcohol," said Dr. James Leyden, professor emeritus of dermatology at the University of Pennsylvania, who has consulted for sunscreen makers.
"I like to have wine with dinner, but I don't think I should drink four bottles a day."
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
cj, I'm confused about this, too.
It appears that MAYBE Vitamin D can be bad if you ALREADY have a chronic illness (or perhaps certain ones); but if you don't and are reasonably `normal', then Vitamin D can be very helpful as a preventative against a lot of serious illnesses.
I've read this somewhat recently, and it was a study that had nothing to do with the MP. I wish I had saved the link.
At this moment, I am 100% confused.
Uh, Luvs - that article is going to be nearly impossible for some of us to read. Not your fault, I know, but thought I'd mention it.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I agree. I tried to read it and my brain went limp!
-------------------- Seeking renewed health & vitality. --------------------------------- Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr! Posts: 830 | From TN | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
There are many short and succinct summaries about the multiple benefits of Vitamin D for: cancer, immune function, fighting infections, MS, kidney function etc.
I started supplementing with Vit D3 8 months ago and the result was a DRAMATIC improvement in my symptoms. Do a search here for Vitamin D and you will see that lots of compelling evidence has been posted about the tremendous benefits of Vitamin D.
I am extremely glad that I researched Vit D and then decided to supplement with it. The quality of life I currently enjoy (I had already radically modified my diet and take numerous other supplements - but when I started taking Vit D the improvement in my symptoms was quite astounding) I can in large part attribute to Vit D supplementation.
posted
Well, its done it again! Lyme Brain is currently taking over!!!
I do NOT have deficiency in Vit D, that I am aware of - mine is in Vit B12 and that is what I am taking supplemental nasal spray for.
so my initial questions goes to Vit B12 - NOT Vit D!
At least they rhyme! That is MY reasoning and I am sticking to it!!!!
-------------------- Seeking renewed health & vitality. --------------------------------- Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr! Posts: 830 | From TN | Registered: Aug 2007
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Ok. I added spaces to that article. I hope it helps.
I was avoiding D partly due to MP information I had read early on and partly due to minocycline which advises stay out of the sun. Still, I did notice that I felt way better in the summer than in the winter (I ride horses, so I am in the sun some)
Just recently Canada research found 60-70% reduction in risks of certain cancers if you get an adequate amount of Vit D. American researchers determined the same and both countries are upping their required daily recommendations as a result of this research.
Around the same time, I happened to be reviewing my bloodtests and found one that showed me low in Vit D. It did not stipulate the D1,25 that Marshall talks about. I just saw low D, having just read the research, I bought and began supplementing D3.
Instantly felt a jump in my well-being. Since then, I try to get sun 15 mins at least daily. On the days I work and can't get sun, I supplement. With winter coming, I will supplement daily even when outside because they say the winter sun isn't strong enough if you live north of MS or LA. Wherever the line was drawn, I remember I was north of it.
I'm a believer.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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TerryK
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Member # 8552
posted
cj - you might be better off to start another thread on B12. I take both D and B12. My D tests show very low levels, B12 tests normal. I feel better with supplementation of both.
The D issue is confusing. It's interesting to note that vitamin D is a hormone, not a vitamin.
The Marshall protocol was initially developed for sarcoidosis patients. Vit D is not to be taken in those with sarcoidosis but I don't know all the details about why. According to the theory, reducing 1,25-D makes it harder for bacteria to slip in and out of the cells they have infected. For further reading see http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum2/13.html
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Vitamin D supplementation makes you FEEL better because it is a steroid & is immunosuppressive. You feel better when you supplement with vitamin D because your immune system stops killing the bacteria. You feel worse when bacteria are being killed due to cytokine storms. You cannot be cured of a SERIOUS infection like chronic Lyme without SERIOUS herx!
It is important to distinguish between 1,25-D and 25-D because your body only uses the 1,25-D form. Dietary vitamin D is the 25-D form. The kidneys tightly regulate the conversion of 25-D to 1,25-D to keep 1,25-D in a fairly narrow range. Therefore, if the ratio of your 1,25-D to 25-D is unusually high, something is seriously wrong!
Focus on the root cause of any deficiencies before supplementing. Most supplements do not stand the test of time & it is clear to me that vitamin D is just another one of them.
Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007
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CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077
posted
So, vit. D is bad? Good?
My LLMD Dr. C of MO suggested I take 5000 units of D3.
I am confused at this point.
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Is either of these Vit D-3?? ["It is important to distinguish between 1,25-D and 25-D because your body only uses the 1,25-D form."]
I'm confused too. I haven't had time to research this one!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
Three-four years ago when I was in lyme hell, a physical therapist that didn't know what to type of treatments to try on me, (forgot her and never went back) asked if I had tried the tanning beds for relief?
She told me about a study that found arthritis patients had improvement when they visited tanning beds. She explained that you don't want to abuse the beds, but the heat and benefit might help. Use the bed to just get yourself to that pinkish color of skin. Not red or burnt.
When the skin get pinkish, the body releases endorphins which are the bodies way of fighting pain.
When I went into the tanning bed place and talked to the manager about treatment benefits to beds, she showed me a album that had many cut outs from magazines and info on using beds as therapy. There was even articles on fibro and chronic fatigue patients.
I know there are many warnings about tanning beds and getting in the sun causes cancer, yada, yada. But these visits got me through a very dark, painful winter. I would only go once every 7-10 days for 12 minutes. I have a dark completion.
It would feel like I was laying in the sun in Florida. Well, with my eyes closed and the radio blaring and a lot of imagination I could image Florida vacation.
You just have to be smart about any treatment. Overuse of anything can be toxic to your health.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I'm very interested in this vitamin D subject as well; my daughter (who just recently got labs back) was told that she is " critically low " in vit D even though her calcium level is fine. She also takes a potent multi vitamin every day.
Melynda
Posts: 3 | From New York | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
When I had my Vit D levels tested a year ago (before my Lyme diagnosis by the way), the results showed that I was in extreme vitamin D deficiency. My level was only 7 ng/mL. That's far below the recommended range for healthy individuals. I've been supplementing with D3 in liquid form for a year. My last test showed my levels had climbed to 56 ng/mL.
The doc who discovered my D deficiency (not my Lyme doc) tends to be conservative and he placed me on D3 supplementation of 1600 i.u. per day.
Vitamin D is not a steroid hormone per se. It's actually a steroid hormone precursor. It's the building block to the steroid hormone in our bodies called calcitriol. That's what I've read anyway. And God only knows whether that distinction is significant or not. lol
A good site and source on Vitamin D testing and supplementation is The Vitamin D Council.
posted
Keep in mind that just because it's a steroid doesn't necessarily mean it's going to prevent treatment of Lyme from working. It probably depends on the level of steroid when trying to determine if the immune system is going to be majorly suppressed by it.
Pregnenolone, Progesterone, Aldosterone, Testosterone, Estradiol, and Cortisol are examples of hormones that are steroids. These hormones are natural to our body and unless there's some kind of defect, these hormones do not suppress our immune system or at least not to dangerous levels.
If that were the case, then the entire world would be ill. It is more than likely because of the level of steroid that is produced.
The same thing may be said about vitamin D. At what point is it more unhealthy to be vitamin D deficient versus immunosuppressed? I have no clue.
-------------------- The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back. -Abigail van Buren (Pauline Esther Friedman) (1918-2002) Posts: 409 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
That Vitamin D is produced by exposure to the sun means that it and its hormone form have been with mankind since our ascent. That it is part of a complicated and powerful hormone cycle that regulates many functions of the body, including the immune system means that lyme sufferers, who have many symptoms of metabolic dysregulation, should pursue study of their vitamin D levels, both the hormone and its precursor.
Those who feel that it causes problems when they take it need to evaluate that reaction, it means something. It would be worthwhile to test getting ten minutes of unblocked sunshine on the face and arms and see if the same reaction occurs, if so, liver and kidney function need to be evaluated, if not, the type and quality of the supplement is suspect.
It belongs in our system, infinitely more so than antibiotics (it helps your immune system make it's own antibiotic, cathelicidin) pain meds, (it enables cells to make endorphins), or antidepressants (ditto for neurotransmitters), and any metabolic response to stress depends on it being present in proper balance with no hindrance to its circulation.
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