posted
I have been trying to contact Dr.W. I got his phone number and address from the list (Biophoton?) provided on this website.
Can anyone tell me what is going on? Please help - I need this information a.s.a.p.!! Thanks.
[ 04. June 2008, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: hopingandpraying ]
Posts: 9020 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
I'm sorry I can't help you with the phone number, but when he does have the appt. will you please keep us posted? I am thinking of buying one and would love to hear first hand experiences.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
You are all wunderbar - danke sehr! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!
Yes, I will keep all of you updated. I MUST try this to help my son!!
Posts: 9020 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
I just heard that he shut down the phones for the day because they were ringing off the hook ---- he sees patients all day and has to devote his time to that. He so far was remarkable at answering calls and e-mails, but I think he has his limitations.
Keep trying and pray/PRAY/PRAY to the highest potency that doctors and practitioners and people who know what they are doing are forcing this along to where it is available in this country.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Okay, you asked for it! I had checked already for opinions, of course. I found 4 reports only.
One is from 2005: a woman appearing in an alternative forum, saying W. cured her and then disappearing, again, never to be heard of again.
Because of this report, some people said that they would try it. We only heard back from one of them. This woman went to another practitioner (not W.) and had no success. So she went to another one (again not W.). No success. Last thing I read from her was in 2007: she was about to apply for disability.
Another girl I know from the phone and from two forums made the following comment in a rife-forum: "Dr. W. helped me a S..t!" She is still ill, of course.
One woman went to W. to treat her myoma. He promised they would disappear with his biophoton treatment. The myoma kept growing happily and she had to have surgery.
Some time ago someone asked about this treatment in a German Lyme forum. There was no answer.
If more than 1.000 patients have been cured then the cure must have made them very selfish and they don't report about it.
In other words: I don't know any credible first hand report about a cure with this treatment.
Maybe there are cures but then they are flying under my radar.
As to the photon colour therapy: hubby and me tried it. The therapist said that she had huge success with it and that (unfortunately for her) the patients are getting well so fast that they stop seeing her.
We had two treatments each and paid a total of 320 Euros. We noticed ZERO! NIENTE! NADA! NICHTS! Therefore, we didn't go there anymore. I bet the therapist now counts both of us to her "cured" list.
This is all that I found about first hand experience. There are positive reports but they are all from practitioners.
Sorry that I have no better news.
Gabrielle
[ 04. June 2008, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: Gabrielle ]
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
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Vermont_Lymie
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posted
Gabrielle, thanks for researching. It is really useful to hear what others experience has been with the biophoton 880.
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Thanks Gabrielle it sounds like we need to do some more flushing out on this. Its curious now that it is reported to be 2000 cured by Dr. W. Where are they and how do we get testimonials from people we can actually talk to, without harrassing anyone?
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Gabrielle and Tosho - would you please edit out Dr. W's full name and phone number in all of your posts on this thread as I have done so he won't be harassed anymore. Thank you.
Tosho - just to answer your question - I don't know if you have children, but anyone who is a parent will go to the ends of the Earth to help their child!!
My son has been ill for eight years (only diagnosed with Lyme, Babesiosis and Bartinellosis two years ago) and continues to have chronic pain in his chest, sides, back and arms for the past two years.
He cannot be touched as it hurts him. Can you imagine not being hugged for that long of a period of time?
Not to mention what it has done to his life in general! We can't even go to church as a family!!
Yes, we have tried many, many treatments which have not helped, but I cannot live my life thinking "would've, should've, could've!" We all know what works for one person does not necessarily work for another!
There is no-one waiting to tell any of us dealing with this terrible, terrible illness what to do! We must search and find out for ourselves!
I love my son and would have gladly taken his illness and pain from him a long time ago if I could.
Thank God for the Lymenet website - it has been such a blessing and a rich source of information.
I am so very grateful also to those who have gotten better or even well, yet continue to help others with their knowledge. God bless all of them!
Posts: 9020 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
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I understand you completely. If I had a kid I would do exactly the same.
And I'm also not against any therapy that works. But I've also seen quite a few people who spent their last money on things that didn't work and now they don't have any options anymore.
I'm on the side of truth and will post here whatever I'll find out - good or bad.
All the best,
Gabrielle
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Gabrielle, it would be nice if we got some news from you on your direct/local research. Have you seen the list of 200some therapists on the Therapeutenliste of www.biophoton.de ? I could call many of them if I wanted to stay up all night. I have done just that. I am in bed when they are working (9 hours difference).
Maybe you could give us some serious input about results and possibly patients on this treatment that gives people something to hang their hat on. There are some very active people in that group who also have websites, i.e. Kunold/writes and lectures. Tischberger is with ZAEN and lectures. Homeopathy is forced to shrink. Many nosodes are no longer available.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I want to have first hand reports from the patients themselves - as I found out over the years: the reports of doctors, naturopaths, etc. are not reliable.
It started with my first normal doctor who told me that she cures every Lyme case - late or not - with 10 days of Rocephin. She swore she never had a failure I really should have tried it - I would be well since years
Then there was this naturopath who assured me that his cure rate is practically 100% - he only sees his patients twice - then they are cured. Well, he saw me and 3 other Lymies that I know indeed only twice. Because by then we had found out that his treatment did nothing!
And then there is this naturopath that I mentioned in my earlier post. I bet she is convinced she cured my husband and myself.
And then there are all these many doctors who tell us Lymies that they have cured us with their short course of abx. They are really convinced! They need it for their ego.
Therefore, I want to talk to patients. I'm curious what the woman will tell me tomorrow.
Gabrielle
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Gabrielle another method would be to go onto one of the large German sites and ask the question about folks experience with the bionic 880 and who was the practioner.
I'm hoping you would know how to put it in German. That might be a way to get a responce. People who don't get well and spent time and money usually respond. If the responce is low or not existent that can tell a lot to.
I'm guessing most folks who get well go on with their lives.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I phoned the woman today who had treatment by Dr. W. I must say it was a very unpleasant experience. Trying to catch an eel with bare hands must be comparably easy.
She was listed as the head of a Lyme support group in the surroundings of Dr. W. so I thought she might know something. When I called the number yesterday, I had her husband on the phone who was very friendly and told me that she herself had been treated by W.
I asked him how the treatment worked out and he told me that his wife was ``partially content'' with it. But it would be better to ask her directly. If I had known how difficult she is I'd have tried to get more info out of him.
I explained her why I was calling, mentioned Dr. W. and all the shutters went down. She was not willing to give me any information and referred me to his website. I told her I knew all that but that I wanted to have firsthand patient's experiences. I asked her if she knew people who got well with his treatment.
``Well? What is well? How do you define that?'' was her stereotype answer. I asked her if SHE is well. Same stereotype sentence. What I finally could squeeze out of her was that she decided not to think about Lyme anymore, that she recently gave up with the support group and that she is happy if she can do her daily things (don't know if she is working - at least she is at home in the afternoons). She said that many of her problems can also be old age (50) - that's what the doctors tell her.
After all, I think I can say that she is not what MYSELF would call ``cured''. I had been hoping that I could get more contacts of other patients via her but nope. I had been talking to a closed oyster.
Should I hear anything else, I'll report.
Gabrielle
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
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There is the one official Lyme forum in Germany and that's where someone had asked the question before - No answer. This forum is strictly abx and alternative things are not well received. I would ruin my reputation there if I'd ask such a question.
Then, there is an open minded forum. I can post a question there.
Then there is a rife and salt and C�Vit C, etc. forum - I can ask there, too.
Then, there is the Beck forum but there is practically no activity, anymore. Maybe I will ask there, too.
Gabrielle
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
thanks Gabrielle that sounds like the way to go!
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Several years ago, I used to post on some of these boards Gabrielle mentions. I got poopooed. Similar reaction I used to get here. There are always, always certain people that manage to kill the messenger. I have not been back to any of the boards since then.
Just finished conversation with a real life Woitzel patient. See other thread.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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lymie_in_md
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Member # 14197
posted
I find the more I'm on this site the better and more respectful people are for new ideas and concepts. I believe the mission is to find treatments that work, no matter where their hiding and to have meaningful discussions about them.
We should be especially respectful & thankful to those who go the extra mile. And there are soooo many of them here, even beyond this discussion.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I promised to report if I'd hear more. Well, here it is:
One Lymie reported in a forum:
A Lyme treatment center in south Germany (where they usually do heavy duty abx) did a study with the Bicom 800(I don't have any details about how this study was designed).
According to one of the doctors there they found that only 2 people (of how many I don't know) reported some improvement. It didn't help the others.
This doctor said that what worked best in terms of machines is the Rife machine but only in combination with abx. Brian Rosner says the opposite.
Then another Lymie spoke up and said that he was in treatment with Dr. W for 2 years. During this time he had to go on disability. He doesn't say that the treatment made him worse but just didn't help.
What he finds strange is that it's only Dr. W. himself who claims that his success rate is 90% and he fails to present only ONE volunteer patient to confirm his success.
He also finds it strange that only 500 meters away there is the office of one of the best LLMD's in Germany. This LLMD is very open and would certainly agree to do trials with a control group. There is no cooperation until now.
Myself, I know this LLMD and I also had wondered why these two docs don't cooperate. The only explanation I have is that the LLMD knows that the machine doesn't work.
The ex-patient also says that once you are in Dr. W. office he is recommending far more than the 5-7 sessions.
Then, another ex-patient showed up and said that it also didn't help for her. She confirmed that you get far more than 5-7 sessions.
She heard of patients feeling some improvement - however, it was not lasting.
And last, but not least a naturopath answered: He said that he is working as a naturopath since 15 years. Two years ago he heard about the Bicom machine and bought one.
Although he was using the machine strictly according to the instructions he couldn't see ANY results with his Lyme patients.
He found, however, that is has a positive effect in reducing stress and lowering fear levels. So it might be beneficiary in the psychosomatic area.
Sorry that this is no better news.
Gabrielle
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
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Tracy9
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Member # 7521
posted
Well, it certainly makes sense; sounds like another incidence of "too good to be true."
The secondhand reports regarding GiGi's husband did not sound all that great, either....I believe it was said they were experiencing "some" improvement. Sure didn't sound like the dramatic cure that was being touted.
Damn, if this guy is a fraud, I feel really bad for all the money people are spending.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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lymie_in_md
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posted
I asked some question about the LEDs used in the device and haven't yet gotten a reply.
We are all still waiting to find out more from those who went. We she should hold our judgement and decisions until they can respond.
We have to thank Gabrielle for her investigative report on the bionic 880. It's difficult to get a good information when the information is in another country.
I believe I've had positive results with the lightworks. A lot less inflamation and pain from using the device. I'll continue to report my progress using it. It just maybe a good adjuctive treatment option. I've had mine for about a 1.5 weeks.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Gabrielle,
How far are you from Pforzheim? Instead of getting third and fourth hand info and spreading it around the world, why do you as a serious Lyme sufferer not pick up the phone and call Dr. Ingo Woitzel personally. Or maybe just hop on the train and take a trip there. You may be very surprised at what you will find. He is very generous with his help, most outgoing, and a heart in the right place. Then you will make an honest contribution to the Lyme community. Feel free to tell him I suggested you do that for all of us.
I recommended to a friend of mine (with serious Lyme) who is in treatment in Germany with an alternative doctor to give the photon therapy some thought. I will report when I hear more.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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sparkle7
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posted
I have been using my LightWorks & I have been having relief from pain. It helps quite a bit. I don't know if it's a cure but it sure does help. It's alot easier than going to Europe...
Dr W seems like his heart may be in the right place but it's hard to say if it's really worth spending thousands to go & see him.
Dr Cowden also used LED therapy in his treatment of Lyme. May be easier to see him if you live near by.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by GiGi: Instead of getting third and fourth hand info and spreading it around the world, why do you as a serious Lyme sufferer not pick up the phone and call Dr. Ingo Woitzel personally. Or maybe just hop on the train and take a trip there. Then you will make an honest contribution to the Lyme community.
there are 3 first-hand experiences. But you can go ahead and post your positive ones - the forum is very open-minded.
BTW, the stories of cured people that you are spreading around the world in some other Bicom-threads are also 3rd and 4th hand experiences.
I've tried too many alternative things in the last years that failed and I have learned the hard way that I don't need to make all the mistakes myself - I can also learn from the experiences of others.
I see absolutely no use in calling Dr. W. For sure he will tell me that his treatment works. What else would he say?
I will still follow the discussions about this machine and if more people should report positively, I might change my mind.
Time will tell who made an "honest contribution" to the Lyme community.
Gabrielle
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Gabrielle- Thank so much for the alternative view of the Bionic 880 therapy in Germany.
I don't think Dr. W is a bad person - it seems that he's trying the best he can with what he knows.
I think that infra red light therapy is very helpful. I bought a device for $295 (LightWorks by SOTA) that is similar to the Bionic 880 in many ways. It's not exactly the same thing but the difference in price is significant.
It has been very useful as part of my Lyme protocol & I can use it here in my own home. It's really helped alot with my pain issues in regards to Lyme. My boyfriend also uses it & has great relief from pain he has.
I've only been using it a couple of weeks but it has helped immensely. I think using infrared light for healing is very beneficial.
Whether spending thousands of dollars to go to Germany or buy the Bionic 880 is worth it - I don't think so.
We can buy similar devices here for less money. There are also other doctors who treat with LEDs, lasers, & light therapy in the US.
Healing with light is a very fascinating area to study. I think it can be of great benefit. I definitely think it's worth pursuing but it may not be necessary to go to 1 doctor in Germany or use only this 1 device - the Bionic 880.
There are devices that are available in the US that are less expensive & don't have any import regulations. It may not be a total cure for Lyme or other health issues but using the LightWorks has been of great benefit to me. (BTW - I do not sell this device or make any money from recommending it.)
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