posted
I feel my old fillings are causing lots of illness. I'd like to know if anyones healed without taking there fillings out?
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SForsgren
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I think it definitely lowers your chances of getting well. That said, things can be made MUCH worse if the person removing them does not know what they are doing. A good sign is when the dentist themself is wearing a gas mask. If they are protecting themselves, they are likely protecting you.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Mercury biases your immune system's Th cell polarization in the opposite direction that Lyme does. Consequently, for people infected with B.Burgdorferi and similar bacteria, mercury actually pushes the immune system back toward a more normal balance.
This may explain why some Lyme patients feel worse after they remove the mercury from their bodies. That was the case for me.
Long ago mercury was actually prescribed by doctors to reduce the symptoms of syphilis, which like Lyme, is also caused by cell-wall deficient bacteria.
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SForsgren
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dguy - potentially true, but I don't think that is a justification for not removing a deadly poison from our bodies. Without doing so, our chances of getting well are minimized.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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GiGi
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I heard this lecture (by my doctor) years ago, and it is still true today -
"In the late phase of the Roman Empire it was considered a privilege of the reigning aristocracy to drink out of lead cups and many of the water lines in the city of Rome were made out of lead pipes.
It took several hundred years before the physicians of their time established the link between mental illness - affecting mostly the aristocracy - and the contamination of the drinking water with lead.
In the 1700s, the use of mercury for the treatment of both acute and chronic infections gained favor and again, it took decades before the neurotoxic and immunosuppressive effects of mercury were well documented within the medical community.
In the time of Mozart, who himself died of mercury toxicity during a course of treatment for syphilis, any pathologist in Vienna was familiar with the severe grayish discoloration of organs in those who died from mercury toxicity and other organ related destructive changes caused by mercury.
In the case of mercury, the therapeutic dilemma is most clear: mercury can be used to treat infections but - not unlike chemotherapy - also causes a different type of illness itself and may kill the patient.
The same is true for most metals: small doses may have a therapeutic effect in a short term, life saving direction, but may also cause their own illness. Most metals have a very narrow therapeutic margin before their neurotoxic, in some cases carcinogenic effect, outweighs the benefits.
Toxic metals may be fungicidal and bactericidal, maybe even virucidal, but many foreign invaders have the ability to adapt over time to a toxic metal environment in a way, that stuns scientists and certainly outpaces the ability of the cells of a higher organism, like ours, to adapt in a similar way.
So in the long run, the situation looks different:
Research by Ludwig, Voll and others in Germany, by Omura and myself here in the US, showed that the cells of the body are harmed by toxic metals whereas the invading microorganisms can often thrive in a heavy metal environment.
The body's own immune cells are incapacitated in those areas whereas the microorganisms multiply and thrive in an undisturbed way.
The teeth, jawbone, Peyers patches in the gutwall, the groundsystem (connective tissue) and the autonomic ganglia are common sites of metal storage - where microorganisms thrive.
Furthermore, those body areas also are vasoconstricted and hypoperfused (by blood, nutrients and oxygen), which fosters the growth of anaerobic germs, fungi and viruses."
In my own words, yes, people may feel worse temporarily sometimes right after removal (especially if the dentist does not know better); that is why preparation before and right after is so important, and a longterm (several years) unless you do LED that will help push it along)
In other words, by removing the amalgam fillings we basically just eliminate the source, the spigot; we turned the fauced off. But, the mercury which had been escaping from the tooth/teeth (as vapor, turning into a different solid form of mercury in the new place, starting within the first few hours of amalgam installation) has entered the brain "disabling" the bridge by which it made it into the brain. That's where it is now, as well as some other body compartments, and that's where we have remove it. Only then do we have a chance at full health.
I have been there, I have removed as much as possible, and that is what cured me and the Lyme Disease I once had. Yes, I mean cured from Lyme Disease, not maintenance referring to Lyme.
However, we are living in a world today where lifelong heavy metal and toxin elimination is necessary. But that has nothing to do with Lyme - only in the context that we can protect outselves by keeping a clean body - the invading microbes or a possible reinfection do not find refuge in a clean body as they do in a metal toxic body.
Only a dirty house attracts vermins. Sorry
Take care.
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SForsgren
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Agree 100% that lifelong heavy metal detox is a must. You can do IVs and that is like detailing your car or you can run it through the gas station car wash more regularly. If you only detail it once a year, it is still going to overall remain dirtier than if you do the regular washing more often. In other words, oral chelation for life is important! I am not a big fan of IV chelation though at times, it may also be necessary.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Health
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I have done both the oral chelation, and the DMPS IV for Mercury. I did oral DMSA too.
What the DMPS did with 1 shot done every month, for 5 months, it would have taken a lifetime of oral chelation and possibly it would have not gotten the mercury.
When I did the oral chelation for mercury, I was in SUCH pain, severe pain, but I kept at it,
When I finally did the DMPS for 5 months, 1 shot a month and went back to the oral chelation, I had no pain from the oral chelation,
that is because teh DMPS got it out, the mercury.
My ND at that time, said, that what the DMPS could do for me in a little time, oral chelation woudl take a lifetime, if it got it at all, or very little. That ND was right.
This is my personal experience I felt it, so I know what works for me. I had all supps including the DMPS vega tested at the ND's and had them check through the vega testing if my body was strong enough for the DMPS.
I dont think oral chelation is that effective at all, I had the experience that it was not, and I did do the oral DMSA.
NOTHING got at the mercury like the DMPS. I had to though build my body up with Ultra Clear and the other oral things, my ND gave me, then used DMPS.
I had NO pain from the DMPS, I had severe heart stopping pain from oral chelators and I felt it did not help me that well, not like the DMPS,
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I am still deciding to IV chelaton for the severe skin burning.
The HMD just about killed me. My skin turned to FIRE.
My body talk tells me NOT to have teeth work done.
Very confusing.
thanks all,
BJG
[ 15. October 2007, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: Jenifer ]
Posts: 468 | From IL | Registered: Oct 2003
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GiGi
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DMSA should not be used in the early detox phase of heavy metals. It is a late agent. If used early while heavy metals are still all over the matrix, extracellular spaces, it may pick up some metals and, since it can cross the blood brain barrier, carry it INTO the brain. That is not what you want. Similar problem with NAC.
Chlorella, DMPS for many months, and then at the late stage DMSA (taken with phospholipids helps). Of course there are other combination agents available.
Heavy metal detoxing usually takes from 2 to 3 years. Longer for many. Do not believe you are in the clear in a few months.
There is no test that will give you a clear picture, except possibly a hair analysis repeated every couple of months to give an indication whether the minerals are coming into balance.
If the mineral balance in the hair is poor, and no heavy metals are showing up, you can assume for certain that you are still heavy metal toxic and the body is not releasing it.
If your Doctor's Data or other good lab shows less output after a challenge than you did in a previous challenge test, that does not mean that you are in the clear. It does not mean that you have no more heavy metals sitting somewhere in the brain stem or elsewhere. There is no way to tell by a lab test how much heavy metals remain in the body. Energetic testing (ART, not sure about others) reveals if metals are still present; also where they are in the body and to help with choice of mobilizing agents.
When all symptoms are gone, whether you call them Lyme symptoms or heavy metal symptoms, as long as you have symptoms remaining, you can assume that heavy metals are still left somewhere.
And as long as heavy metals are there, microbes/ fungi and mold and viral problems are there also - because they all live in the same eco-system together.
It gets much easier once the major load is reduced and the wise thing is to continue to do the various forms of chelating with whatever works best for you. Matrix Metals, NDF, Algas, etc., and my favorite Cilantro tincture (applied to skin and lasered in, dermal melatonin, cilantro tea before bedtime (a few drops of tincture, counting starting with 2-3 before bedtime), - all these should work - as long as you use them.
Never forgetting the binding agents or mop-up agents necessary to avoid any redistribution of any die-off - microbes, fungi, mold, or metals. Chlorella, Destroxin, other zeolites, pectin, Betasitosterol, fiber, fiber, fiber, etc.
Take care.
P.S. Sharing my experiences.
[ 15. October 2007, 04:00 AM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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If I have two fillings that are silver colored do they definitely have mercury?
Posts: 526 | From NJ | Registered: May 2007
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Greatcod
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posted
If the mercury fillings are so toxic, how can people become world class atheletes if they have mercury fillings? Or have all world class athletes had their fillings replaced? My point being that there seem to be lots of very healthy people in this world who have mercury fillings.
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luvs2ride
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Not healthy Greatcod. Just not sick enough yet to know they are sick.
Remember, most of us here at lymenet were atheletes just prior to our illness.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Greatcod: If the mercury fillings are so toxic, how can people become world class atheletes if they have mercury fillings? Or have all world class athletes had their fillings replaced? My point being that there seem to be lots of very healthy people in this world who have mercury fillings.
I was close to being a world class athlete. I was find until being hit by a car. Then through the psyical therapy process and trigger points all the metals stored in my conective tissue started to drain out. Prior the PT my metals were very low. After my metals became very high. I have been addressing metals for about 10 months. The body does wonderious things with trying to protect itself in storing toxins in places. Have a big accident or surgery and these protective places get disrupted and metals can be released.
Posts: 582 | From milwaukee wi | Registered: May 2005
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Can anyone tell me what kind of doctor should I see for heavy metal/neurotoxin testing and possible chelation therapy? I don't think my LLMD knows too much about it. Any recommendations in the Bay Area?
-------------------- Why me? Well, why not me??? Posts: 411 | From San Francisco, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Greatcod
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johnlyme1 wrote "Have a big accident or surgery and these protective places get disrupted and metals can be released."
That's very interesting...that trauma releases toxins which were previously stored and controled, and had little or no impact on health. So your tests for heavy metals were negative until you started PT, and then they became seriously elevated. Did you then have your fillings removed??
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quote:Originally posted by Greatcod: johnlyme1 wrote "Have a big accident or surgery and these protective places get disrupted and metals can be released."
That's very interesting...that trauma releases toxins which were previously stored and controled, and had little or no impact on health. So your tests for heavy metals were negative until you started PT, and then they became seriously elevated. Did you then have your fillings removed??
My tests for metals were within normal low exposure, should not have been any issue. My LLMD checks all his patients for metal loads as part of his treament. Once I had a 3 sessions of nuero trigger point therapy and osetopath crainal therapy the metals started to flow out. Tests became elevated way beyond normal. I am working on my fillings soon. They have to come out.
Gigi is very correct that having nuero trigger point therapy will release many toxins. Take a look at Dr.Ks outline for heavy metal detox.
Posts: 582 | From milwaukee wi | Registered: May 2005
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map1131
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John, I remember the great LLMD Dr C in Missouri telling me to have some trigger point therapy prior to testing heavy metal. He said it could help bring the toxin out of hiding for the test.
Dr C believed that abx alone wouldn't bring you back to life. He believed you must do a combination of therapies up to and including some alternative therapies.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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Greatcod
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Very interesting explanations--thanks.
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I wonder if having amalgams removed incorrectly is worse than leaving them alone...
Had my amalgams removed a few years ago when I had 'MS & Fibro', before Lyme dx. I thought it would help my MS and I went to my appointment with a copy of the current (at the time) protocol for safe removal. (covered by insurance)
Dr. W disregarded the information, the dam was unnecessary. He would get all of the pieces so I needn't worry about swallowing them. He was my dentist, he knew what he was doing, I was just an MS patient grasping for something that would help. I trusted him.
The removal was scheduled for 2 appointments. I became very sick after the first appointment and thought it was due to the stress on my body and the Novocain. I was down for over a week, and postponed the 2nd appointment. Same thing happened after the final removal.
Yes, I have mercury toxicity and I probably had it before I had the removal. Was I sick because of the removal? Who knows - but why not do it `correctly'?
This is a tough subject in my family as my brother owns a well respected dental lab and says Amalgams are 100% safe, etc. (He also holds strong to IDSA and CDC for all of his Lyme information. I pray for my young nieces and their active outdoor lifestyle in NH.)
I didn't find a removal protocol on ADA but became confused looking for one, apologies. Maybe someone can find one.
Robin
Posts: 47 | From morgantown, wv | Registered: Feb 2007
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Greatcod
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I find it interesting that there are adverse reactions to filling replacements...I wonder how common that is? Anyone know?
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mojo
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Mustbeapony: Sounds like your dentist botched the job. I called my regular dentist and he said he'd do it but was very upset about it.and ended up scaring the life out of me.
I will never go back to him and he is a friend of the family.
In my opinion the only dentist you should go to is a "bioligcal dentist" or a "mercury free" dentist. My guy was recommended by my Lyme Dr. He made sure I was working with my Dr to get an IV (vit c and other vitamins and minerals) on the day of my removal to "build me up"
I had no issues at all. I did the IV chelation for quite a while and I've been taking chlorella for a year and a half with no plans to stop.
My twin, who also has Lyme and yeast, is having a tougher time and 'herxes' after some IV's. She has a heavier mercury load and it's tougher to get rid of because yeast and mercury bind together. Once her mercury is under control we are hoping her yeast can be controlled.
Molly
[ 15. October 2007, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: Jenifer ]
Posts: 1761 | From USA | Registered: May 2006
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I was hoping to get some info from scott or gigi on this partiicular subject.
Im in the process of getting my fillings replaces and hav 2 quadrants left. Right now i am taking 30 chlorealla tablets daily and once a week i get Iv c and glutatione pushes.
My question is at what point do i need to start chelation? Is it absolutely neccesary? Im also wondering if i should start taking cilantro tincture and when?
So far i have no scheduled chelation treatment and i dont think my dr has anything planned. Ive heard that you can only do it once all the fillings are removed. Is this true?
I never had the metals test done becuase i was told its pretty useless and made the decision that i wanted to get my fillings removed regardless.
Health
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posted
Here's one for you all.
I have lyme, like you all here, coinfections too.
I NEVER had MCS until I had ONE mercury filling removed. Yes, 1 mercury filling removed, without protection. I did not know that you needed protection back then, it was an old mercury
filling that needed to be replaced, so my VERY good Dentist removed it, drilled the ONE mercury filling out and put in the white kind.
3 days later I go for my run around the ocean lane, I lived by the beach in a great apartment, and ran 4-5 times a week back then, then went to work.
Well, back then, I had that filling removed and 3 days later my life changed, I started to get MCS.
here I am, at that time, because of only 1 mercury filling removed, without protection, I lost my job, my apartment, and left the city to live with family 3 months later because I could not
breath the air there,
Here I am 10 years later, and I still have MCS. at that time, I was not well, I was starting to get sick, for the past 4-5 years before the 1 mercury filling, so it may have eventually happend, who knows?
I have no more mercury left, had it all removed by a Biological Dentist, and root canal removed.
I did get better somewhat to work again, but I then started to get sick again.
I also had a sister have 5 mercury fillings removed in ONE day with no protection, and she was fine, never got sick,
Here I am.
I have done about 3 years of chelation.
Maybe I would be dead had I not removed them? I dont know.
I have had some very very drastic happenings, like I became EMF sensitive overnight, same with light senstive over night.
All these things happen, BANG.
What a way to shake a person up.
I have done homemade cilantro, the past year off and on, and it has NO effect on me, I use to get very spacey from it and sick several years ago, now I dont get like that,
So, I know that is a good thing.
It is tough, to know.
I would think it is good to get the mercury out if you dont have it out and are not well, ONE out every so often, that is what I heard.
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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GiGi
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posted
Jocus,
I have posted whole booklets on this subject. Please do a search.
The dentist who is doing the work should be able to connect you with a physician/naturopath, etc. who can guide you through detox of metals. This is absolutely not something you can do on your own, unless you want to chance not getting it out or moving it elsewhere and ending up with more problems by doing it wrong.
Cilantro is probably the only substance crossing the blood brain barrier - so you do not want to be doing it until someone helps you. If you find someone that can do energetic testing (muscle testing, EAV, ART) it helps a lot -- it takes the guessing out of what you should and should not take at a certain time.
Health has always drawn a very dark picture of her experiences. Do not let that scare you. This is not what happens when you do detox under the guidance of someone knowledgable. It doesn't cost a fortune either. It helps avoid being sick for longer than necessary. Please search for someone in your area. Call around clinics who practice alternative or integrative med.
An experienced practitioner can help you and tell you how and when.
Chelation/mobilization can take 2-3 years depending on your body and how easily it lets go of the toxins. People with a lot of unresolved emotional issues usually have a much harder time letting go of toxins than when one is at peace with oneself and family. It is more important than trying to find the best supplement!
If you don't work on chelation, you will not have the longterm benefits that come with doing it right. Once it is out of your system, you will appreciate what I am saying.
Search for my posts and all the other material that is available, educate yourself on the subject. I learned it all and so can you if you put your mind to it.
Take care and good luck. Feel free to address me privately -- you will find my e-mail if you read some of my posts.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Health
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posted
Gigi,
and everyone else reading this thread.
I got VERY ill from mercury removal, and it was not because I was with a BAD Dentist, I was with a very good Dentist. I was very sick, and they had never had anyone react like me.
My very first removal of the one mercury filling was with a Regular Dentist, and I had no protection used, and this started the MCS,
HOWEVER when I had the rest of the mercury removed, I found a very good Dentist and worked with him to have it removed. A well researched one, and he worked with ND's to remove mercury, Protection used and so on, I became VERY VERY VERY sick, it was a horrid nightmare, I am not talking a little sickness, I am talking, not wanting to live, I became sick about 2-3 weeks later, not immediately, it started with severe shotting pains,
to the point of almost passing out, then MCS severe, then NO memory, could not drive, I looked 15 years older, I became so skinny, My skin went from beautiful to acned and dry, I could tolerate barely anything, as in detox,
it was a living nightmare, and so I share with others.
I was under the guidance of very good Dentists and Dr's that knew what they were doing, NOT one patient of theirs, and they had many, ever reacted like myself.
I am tired of you Gigi, I dont need to listen to you put me down because I am sharing an experience of mine that was HORRID,
I am TIRED of you putting down every thing that someone does if they get worse, it is unbelievable, I HAVE read Dr K's work, many of it, he does not speak like you,
SO, go back to Dr K and get him to heal the part of you that is SO insistent that you are the way to heal, he has not healed you,
address this part of you, if you want to stand by Dr K, because you are a shame, to be speaking like this to others that have failed,
You have done this to me before when I bring up my mercury removal, you treat me like I am some idiot, and that the Dr's are idiots.
I am here to warn people to be careful about mercury. I will not anymore, because you take the life out of me, and I cannot afford that.
You are not healed Gigi, and for anyone to support you with your attitude, these people are not healed either. It is the ones that are speaking up about you, and upset with you that are the ones that are healed from within, . I am not healed, but I am healed at the level
you are not.
Trish
[ 17. October 2007, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Health ]
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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SForsgren
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posted
Certainly there are people that have had bad experiences with removal of mercury. It may not be a bad dentist, but may be a dentist that does not understand the impact of mercury removal on someone who is already ill. It may be that the person was not working with a doctor that was also supporting the removal process via other means to help support a positive end result.
A volume of data supports removal of mercury fillings and chelation when done right. It is unfortunate that some have had bad experiences with doing so, but leaving them in the body deters our path to wellness.
As for why some are not effected, a part of that answer is likely genetics and the body's ability to remove toxins. Most of us that are ill are pretty impaired in that area.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Health
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I am here to share my experience, and to help someone avoid what happened to myself.
I have been around healing a long time, 15 years or so. I have seen numerous Dr's and ND's and many kinds of herbalists and have
done many kinds of healing, many. I have spent everything I have, I now have left my car, that is all. I have lost great jobs because of this illness and my brain, I have been dragged to the bottom like so many on here and fight to get to the top of wellness. I cannot access what I want to really say sometimes, and am left with humiliation sometimes, but I will get there, I hope, to the top of wellness.
I have slept in shelters for the homeless because of my MCS and loosing apartments, I went from the top of life to the bottom, I slept in shelters hugging my belongings to my chest to keep them safe,
and 3 years before this I was working living in an apartment on the beach, running each AM, sitting with friends laughing, working my way up in businees, and then I come ill...
I will not tolerate anyone speaking to me like Gigi does. A fellow lymie that is well speaks to me and others like this? THAT IS unacceptable to me.
I have enough of that from the MD's that dont believe in lyme and from family, I dont need to come on here to share something and have this happen.
I have had family laugh at me because I could not work, call me a baby because I had to leave jobs because so ill, I am here to get well,
and to share experiences.
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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Health
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posted
I went back to College to upgrade, several years ago, and ran into a young man that had some kind of illness, he was put in Hospital every 6 months to have his blood redone, blood transfusion?
I think this is it, I am brain fogged, anyways, he told me that he had had his merury fillings out, because his MD told him to try it,
and this young man said he could not believe how much better he felt,
he said his health improved so much. He had a smile that was huge when he spoke how much better he felt and got.
So, their is truth to mercury causing problems, I got sick from them, when they were removed, wether or not it is because I have an actual allergy to it? I dont know.
I did have some ND tell me that I had allergy to mercury. so maybe I do.
I also had my Regular Dentist who is the family Dentist, that has been my Dentist since a child, tell me to get the mercury out because for some, they can be affected, and he told me to get my root canal out too,
because he said that SOME will be made worse by mercury and root canals but the majority are fine.
This Dentist is not Mercury free either, he says it like it is, and he was actually quite mean to me considering he has been my Dentist since a young girl, he was kind when I was his patient, but he changed when I told him I was ill.
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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GiGi
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Yes, there are billions of people who live happily with mercury in their body. However, over the last ten years I have not met one single person who is chronically ill, any illness, who did not have to detox heavy metals and chemicals before they could get better and well.
By far the most destructive, once the limit of the total body burden (all neurotoxins) is reached is mercury, followed by lead and aluminum. And the root canals --- for these chronically ill --- is an added major problem. They are still arguing in the inner circles which ones should be eliminated first, the fillings or the root canals. The emphasis is amalgams first, then root canals. I have the technical explanation for it, as told by a group of dentists, medical doctors and scientists, but I won't post it here.
I do hope with so much attention on this subject, maybe better ways to mend our teeth can soon be found.
Dr. K. has not only seen this same problem over the last ten years, but has dealt with it and treated chronically ill since the 1980's. It was during his years in his Pain Clinic when he started to realize the destructiveness of heavy metal toxicity. Most could not be permanently pain-free without addressing the neurotoxin problems.
And it is most rewarding to hear that many other doctors are recognizing the problem. Read the ILADS Guidelines - 2004 - developed by a group of some 25 doctors - even they talk Heavy Metals. I posted the text on the infamous LED thread.
I will be so happy when I hear that anyone of you here or elsewhere, who is unable to do a metal detox for one reason or another, can report "I am totally well".
Best of luck to all of you.
Take care.
Just Sharing My Experiences.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
There is also a big risk when you have big fillings removed of killing your tooth! The drilling and depth of the filling can kill the tooth with the trauma. I do NOT recommend this!
Posts: 364 | From California | Registered: Sep 2005
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This is all so confusing... for many months I have been thinking if I should take the fillings out or not and still cant decide. There are all kinds of stories on the mercury forums: some have gotten they life back after removal and some have ruined their life by doing it (though done correctly). Who can know what to do?
Trish, I'm so sorry what happened so you. :'( I too have lost nearly everything because of the illness though my experience isnt quite as extreme as yours.
-------------------- Please dont suggest "ask your LLMD" because we dont have them here in this country... I just have to count on you fellow patients. Posts: 246 | From Finland | Registered: Dec 2006
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Years ago when I was not feeling well and noone could tell me what was wrong I read an article about removing amalgam fillings.
So desperate to feel better I started having them replaced one by one. Little did I know then about safe removal techniques.
Anyway it was the last day and the last filling was being replaced and I was trying to save some $, so I told the dentist to fill that last tooth with amalgam.
Half an hour later back at my office I felt the world start to spin, my head was ready to explode and I was sweating like a pig, I called my dentist, rushed back, and he took out the new amalgam and replaced with gold or composite I can't remember.
Within a half hour I was back to normal.
What does this all mean?
Beats me.
That was over 15 years ago. And my worst Lyme episode was 3 years ago. New infection?
Maybe you should just start having the oldest worst condition fillings replaced first one by one.
posted
God forbid anyone report a failed experience with anything some folks declare to be the absolute "positve" truth. Nice little black and white world they live in. I think its very important that we accumalte knowledge of adverse consequences of alternative treatments. Just makes sense, and its in no way being negative.
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valymemom
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posted
The llmd I saw for treatment (now 8 months symptom-free after 14 months of abx treatment) had amalgams removed and claims the brain fog suffered for so long is gone.......this llmd can focus/think better.
All the work was done by a biological dentist known for amalgam removal. I do not know the pace of removal and what kinds of other therapies came before or after removal.
Posts: 1240 | From Centreville,VA | Registered: Mar 2005
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GiGi
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posted
"have ruined their life by doing it (though done correctly)."
Barton Fink, from my experience - doing it correctly (detoxing heavy metals) is the most difficult part. Many people think they have taken the fillings out and do a few months of detoxing the metals and think they must be done with it. It can take 2-3 years. It can take five years. Some people have trouble releasing it for a number of reasons. "Five Levels of Healing" - You find it posted here or you can google it.
There is no laboratory test available anywhere in the world today that can tell how much toxic metal is stored in the body. The closest indication with current testing is that the mineral balance (in hair analysis and other lab tests/Doctor's Data, etc) shows up as totally out of balance. That is the only indication that metal toxicity is present.
There is no doubt that heavy metal detox has to be done alongside the antimicrobial treatments. One eco-system. Microbes live with heavy metals -metals are where the microbes live.
A little mercury treats syphilis -- a lot of mercury killed Mozart and killed Beethoven. They both were treated for syphilis with mercury. They both died of mercury poisoning. (this is kept very quiet.)
People can survive a microbial infection because of the mercury. Excessive mercury and other environmental toxicities = the microbes flourish. More toxic accumulations = more microbes.
More people are getting ill because we live in a very toxic world. Now it's a superbug, tomorrow it will be a super-super-bug.
Take care.
Just sharing my experiences. It is not easy - it was not for me.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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stymielymie
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posted
DON'T EAT FISH,DON'T GET VACCINES, DON'T USE LEAD BATTERIES,
HEAVY METALS FOR THOSE INTERESTED Chemistry International Vol. 23, No. 6 November 2001
Definitions in terms of density (specific gravity)
metals fall naturally into two groups-the light metals with densities below 4, and the heavy metals with densities above 7 [3] metal having a specific gravity greater than 4 [5] metal of high specific gravity, especially a metal having a specific gravity of 5.0 or greater [22] metal with a density greater than 5 [23] metal with a density greater than 6 g/cm3 [24] metal of specific gravity greater than 4 [6] metal with a density of 5.0 or greater [25] metal whose specific gravity is approximately 5.0 or higher [7] metal with a density greater than 5 [8] (in metallurgy) any metal or alloy of high specific gravity, especially one that has a density greater than 5 g/cm3 [9] metal with a density higher than 4.5 g/cm3 [10] metal with a density above 3.5-5 g/cm3 [12] element with a density exceeding 6 g/cm3 [11] Definitions in terms of atomic weight (mass)
metal with a high atomic weight [26] metal of atomic weight greater than sodium [13] metal of atomic weight greater than sodium (23) that forms soaps on reaction with fatty acids [14] metallic element with high atomic weight (e.g., mercury, chromium, cadmium, arsenic, and lead); can damage living things at low concentrations and tend to accumulate in the food chain [27] metallic element with an atomic weight greater than 40 (starting with scandium; atomic number 21); excluded are alkaline earth metals, alkali metals, lanthanides, and actinides [15] metal with a high atomic mass [28] heavy metals is a collective term for metals of high atomic mass, particularly those transition metals that are toxic and cannot be processed by living organisms, such as lead, mercury, and cadmium [29] metal such as mercury, lead, tin, and cadmium that has a relatively high atomic weight [30] rather vague term for any metal (in whatever chemical form) with a fairly high relative atomic mass, especially those that are significantly toxic (e.g., lead, cadmium, and mercury). They persist in the environment and can accumulate in plant and animal tissues. Mining and industrial wastes and sewage sludge are potential sources of heavy metal pollution [31]. a metal such as cadmium, mercury, and lead that has a relatively high relative atomic mass. The term does not have a precise chemical meaning [32]. metal with a high relative atomic mass. The term is usually applied to common transition metals such as copper, lead, or zinc [33]. Definitions in terms of atomic number
In biology:
in electron microscopy, metal of high atomic number used to introduce electron density into a biological specimen by staining, negative staining, or shadowing [34] in plant nutrition, a metal of moderate to high atomic number, e.g., Cu, Zn, Ni, or Pb, present in soils owing to an outcrop or mine spoil, preventing growth except for a few tolerant species and ecotypes [34] In chemistry:
the rectangular block of elements in the Periodic Table flanked by titanium, hafnium, arsenic, and bismuth at its corners but including also selenium and tellurium. The specific gravities range from 4.5 to 22.5 [17]. any metal with with an atomic number beyond that of calcium [35] any element with an atomic number greater than 20 [36] metal with an atomic number between 21 (scandium) and 92 (uranium) [16] term now often used to mean any metal with atomic number >20, but there is no general concurrence [20] Definitions based on other chemical properties
heavy metals is the name of a range of very dense alloys used for radiation screening or balancing purposes. Densities range from 14.5 for 76% W, 20% Cu, 4% Ni to 16.6 for 90% W, 7% Ni, 3% Cu [37]. intermetallic compound of iron and tin (FeSn2) formed in tinning pots that have become badly contaminated with iron. The compound tends to settle to the bottom of the pot as solid crystals and can be removed with a perforated ladle [38]. lead, zinc, and alkaline earth metals that react with fatty acids to form soaps. "Heavy metal soaps" are used in lubricating greases, paint dryers, and fungicides [39]. any of the metals that react readily with dithizone (C6 H5 N), e.g., zinc, copper, lead, etc. [40]. metallic elements of relatively high molecular weight [41]. Definitions without a clear basis other than toxicity
element commonly used in industry and generically toxic to animals and to aerobic and anaerobic processes, but not every one is dense or entirely metallic; includes As, Cd, Cr, Cu, Pb, Hg, Ni, Se, and Zn [42] outdated generic term referring to lead, cadmium, mercury, and some other elements that generally are relatively toxic in nature; recently, the term "toxic elements" has been used. The term also sometimes refers to compounds containing these elements [18]. Definitions preceding 1936
News and Notices - Organizations and People - Standing Committees Divisions - Projects - Reports - Publications - Symposia - AMP - Links Page last modified 25 October 2001. Copyright � 1997-2001 International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry.
Questions or comments about IUPAC, please contact the Secretariat. Questions regarding the website, please contact [email protected]
DOCDAVE
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
i agree 100% a one oppinion answer is not relevent to this lymenet.
people log on to get information,good ,bad, wrong, right.
the person with the disease must make a decision with their doctor as to what is best for them.
there is no one treatment fits all in lyme disease and coinfections.
people should not be abused for giving a different point of view. they must also not hide evidence of problems with a specific treatment for lyme.
this happened with vioxx. they reported all the good results and nobody except the drug company knew the side effects.
my position is very clear on this suject matter, and i have deleted my posts on this subject here. my position can be searched if you would like a professional oppinion. search, docdave or stymielymie.
i will not sit and fight with someone to have my point of view ignored and berated.
yes every treatment is good ,for the right person. yes heavy metals is bad. yes the post below, the man is having palpatations from chorella.
so, what is the answer. if you are that concerned with spending thousands of dollars on a procedure, i would get all the information i could get from the internet,doctors,dental material doctors. Yes Dr.v.Thompson is the formost authority in dental materials in the country. he was also in my class and teaching at university of maryland i would study articles by him and trust him he is a brillant man.
enough i'm leaving with my pride intact will return when someone wants to hear the truth in dentistry.
dr. david klein
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Funny I came across this post regarding mercury. I just had my family doc do a blood test for mercury and it came back high.
I believe it was 8 micrograms or something to that and the highest level considered "safe" was 3. I asked my daughter's lyme doc about this and he said it should be zero.
So, I'm totally confused about all of this. First, does anyone have any idea where this may have come from? I do have silver fillings, but all the docs I've asked say that four small fillings wouldn't cause such a high level.
I've been told to have my water tested. We have well water, but I've also heard that mercury would sink to the bottom and there's no way my well water could have poisoned me with mercury. I had my daughter tested for mercury, but haven't gotten results yet.
I was told to have chelation done, but I have no idea where to go for that. Anyone know of a website where you can find a doc that does this?
Also, major question...I'd love to know what kinds of symptoms those with high mercury levels were experiencing as well as what your levels were.
I've also been told and read opposite opinions on hair anaylsis versus blood for mercury. I've been told hair analysis isn't useful. I'm so confused.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Posts: 56 | From Downingtown, PA | Registered: Jun 2007
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
I will try to explain why the hairtest is also a good tool. I am expecting company and have to get some beds made for them to sleep in!!!!!!!!
So look here sometime tomorrow or thereabouts.
Take care.
Just sharing my experiences.
Symptoms of Chronic Mercury Toxicity CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM
Irritability Anxiety/nervousness, often with difficulty breathing Restlessness Exaggerated response to stimulation Fearfulness Emotional instability Lack of self control Fits of anger, with violet irrational behaviour Loss of self confidentce Indecision Shyness or timidity, being easily embarrassed Loss of memory Inability to concentrate Lethargy/drowsiness Insomnia Mental depression, despondency Withdrawal Suicidal tendencies Manic depression Numbness and tingling of hands, feet, fingers, toes or lips Muscle weakness progressing to paralysis Ataxia Tremors/trembling of hands, feet lips, eyelids or tongue Incoordination Myoneural transmission failure resembling Myasthenia Gravis Motor neuron disease (ALS) Multiple sclerosis
HEAD, NECK, ORAL CAVITY DISORDERS
Bleeding gums Alveolar bone loss Loosening of teeth Excessive salivation Foul breath Metallic taste Burning sensation with tingling of lips, face Tissue pigmentation (amalgam tattoo of gums) Leukoplakia Stomatitis Ulceration of Gingiva, palate, tongue, Dizziness/acute, chronic vertigo Ringing in the ears Hearing difficulties Speech and visual impairment Glaucoma Restricted, dim vision
GASTROINTESTINAL EFFECTS
Food sensitivities, especially to milk and eggs Abdominal cramps, colitis, diverticulitis or other GI complaints Chronic diarrhea/constipation
CARDIOVASCULAR EFFECTS
Abnormal heart rhythm Characteristic findings on EKG Abnormal changes in the S-T segment and/or lower Broadened P wave Unexplained elevated cholesterol Abnormal blood pressure, either high or low
IMMUNOLOGIC
Repeated infections Viral and fungal Mycobacterial Candida and other yeast infections Cancer Autoimmune disorders Arthritis Lupus eryth Multiple sclerosis Scleroderma Amyolateral sclerosis (ALS) Hypothyroidism
SYSTEMIC EFFECTS
Chronic headaches Allergies Severe dermatitis Unexplained reacxtivity Thyroid disturbance Subnormal body temperature Cold, clammy skin, especiall hands and feet Excessive perspiration w/frequent night sweats Unexplained sensory symptoms, including pain Unexplained numbness or burning sensations Unexplained anemia G-6-PD deficiency Chronic kidney disease Nephrotic syndrome Receiving renal dialysis Kidney infection Adrenal disease General fatigue Loss of appetite with or without weight loss Loss of weight hypoglycemia
(Amalgam Detox/1999 DK)
[ 20. October 2007, 03:12 AM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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This study has been posted here before but I think it is worth posting in this thread. It is pretty clear as far as lyme and sub toxic levels of mercury.
1: Clin Exp Immunol. 2007 Oct;150(1):189-97. Epub 2007 Aug 2. Links Mercury exposure as a model for deviation of cytokine responses in experimental Lyme arthritis: HgCl2 treatment decreases T helper cell type 1-like responses and arthritis severity but delays eradication of Borrelia burgdorferi in C3H/HeN mice.Ekerfelt C, Andersson M, Olausson A, Bergstr�m S, Hultman P. Division of Clinical Immunology, and Unit of Autoimmunity and Immune Regulation, Department of Molecular and Clinical Medicine, Faculty of Health Sciences, University Hospital, Link�ping, Sweden. [email protected]
Lyme borreliosis is a complex infection, where some individuals develop so-called 'chronic borreliosis'. The pathogenetic mechanisms are unknown, but the type of immune response is probably important for healing. A strong T helper cell type 1 (Th1)-like response has been suggested as crucial for eradication of Borrelia and for avoiding development of chronic disease. Many studies aimed at altering the Th1/Th2 balance in Lyme arthritis employed mice deficient in cytokine genes, but the outcome has not been clear-cut, due possibly to the high redundancy of cytokines. This study aimed at studying the importance of the Th1/Th2 balance in murine Borrelia arthritis by using the Th2-deviating effect of subtoxic doses of inorganic mercury. Ninety-eight C3H/HeN mice were divided into four groups: Borrelia-infected (Bb), Borrelia-infected exposed to HgCl(2) (BbHg), controls exposed to HgCl(2) alone and normal controls. Mice were killed on days 3, 16, 44 and 65 post-Borrelia inoculation. Arthritis severity was evaluated by histology, spirochaetal load determined by Borrelia culture, IgG2a- and IgE-levels analysed by enzyme-linked immunosorbemt assay (ELISA) and cytokine-secreting cells detected by enzyme-linked immunospot (ELISPOT). BbHg mice showed less severe histological arthritis, but delayed eradication of spirochaetes compared to Bb mice, associated with increased levels of IgE (Th2-induced) and decreased levels of IgG2a (Th1-induced), consistent with a Th2-deviation. Both the numbers of Th1 and Th2 cytokine-secreting cells were reduced in BbHg mice, possibly explained by the fact that numbers of cytokine-secreting cells do not correlate with cytokine concentration. In conclusion, this study supports the hypothesis that a Th1-like response is required for optimal eradication of Borrelia.
PMID: 17672870 [PubMed - in process]
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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GiGi
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posted
Terry, thank you for posting the link to the ILADS Guidelines. Here it is again for easier reading:
posted 10 October, 2007 07:07 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is an excerpt from the ILADS Guidelines 2004 published by the ILADS Working Group (written by some 25 or more professionals -- too many listed to count):
Quote:
Continued Importance of Differential Diagnosis.
The differential diagnosis of Lyme disease requires consideration of both infectious and noninfectious etiologies. Among noninfectious causes are thyroid disease, degenerative arthritis, metabolic disorders (Vitamin B12 deficiency, diabetes), HEAVY METAL TOXICITY, vasculitis, and primary psychiatric disorders. Unquote.
I had added to this on the LED thread:
After extended and repeated sessions of IV antibiotics, orals, repetitions of same, I was still ``sick as a dog''.
Antibiotics have no effect on VIRAL syndromes, West Nile virus or others mentioned in the same section/Guidelines. ANTIBIOTICS HAVE NO EFFECT ON ELIMINATION OF HEAVY METAL TOXICITY
Take care.
Just sharing my experiences.
[ 21. October 2007, 03:11 AM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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GiGi
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By the way, Heavy Metals are called heavy metals because most of them are several times (5) heavier than water. Mercury is 15 times heavier than water.
Wonder why mercury is often found in the lower body compartments: lower jaw, reproductive organs, feet.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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GiGi
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Maybe this explains why so many people also have toenail fungus, and not only in New England. I doubt that all toenail mercury comes from eating fish - At least fish supplies selenium, a protective.
In our house, we eat our fish no matter what - but always started with a dose of binding agents, chlorella, etc.
No amalgam in mouth = less environmental mercury pollution = less mercury toxic fish = less human mercury toxicity = less disease = a better life
Take care.
Sharing my experience.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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stymielymie
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posted
selenium is a very toxic heavy metal. people using head and shoulders shampoo can get selenium toxicity.
there are 50 or so heavy metals, they even put them in vitamins, that at some levels can cause toxicity.
even simple vitamins can cause toxicity, especially oil based vitamins that don't disolve in blood and stay in system, ie vit e.
everything that goes in the body,on the body on hair, fingernails, is toxic at certain levels.
mercury is but one of many metals that the body can't absorb and cause problems. the number one toxic metal is arsenic. the is found in high concentration in many water systems and wells, the old type pressure treated woods, and ant, roach and mouse pesticides.
my father died from cancer of the esophagus due to pesticides. he was an avid golfer and all four of the players he played with have cancer.
docdave.
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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GiGi
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posted
Most people have selenium deficiency and need selenium. Too much selenium binds mercury in the brain. Doing it right is the key.
Take care.
Sharing my experiences. I have heard the above at literlly every Dr. K. conference dealing with the microbial infections and metals = Chronic Disease.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Trish: You say you now have left your car. Where have you left it? I don't really understand that. And WHY have you left it. Did you mean you were sleeping in it?
How do you write on the internet? Are you doing this at some friends house, or what?
Thanks for clarifying this for me.
Jim
PS: I STILL have 3 Amalgams to get rid of, but am trying to decide WHAT to do. SHould I remove the whole tooth, or just have them refilled. I can't afford crowns, so just have them filled and then the teeth are falling apart. And we have no holistic dentists close by. Even the more expensive dentists are not mercury free around here.
My jaws have been hurting ever since my last removals. Nothing is covered with my medicare or medicaid, and going through divorce and may lose my house too, so can't really get enough money to do it right. Just taking it one day at a time. ###
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GiGi
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