stymielymie
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posted
DO A SEARCH ON MY POSTS ON TEETH STYMIELYMIE AND DOCDAVE130
i'll spell it out here but hold on. 1)lyme and co cause dry mouth, xerostomia, which reduces the saliva in the mouth, also get dry eyes and dry skin. without saliva, there is nothing to wash away the bacteria from the teeth. the saliva actually protects the teeth. with no protection the teeth get decay from the bacteria that are normal to the mouth. rampant cavities occur also in radiation treatment in the area of head and neck. the bacteria dissolve the enamel of the teeth and fillings fall out, enamel gets thin, and teeth break. also age is a factor also. Abx CAN ALSO CAUSE DARK STAIN ON TEETH DEPENDING ON THE ABX
2)antibiotics kill normal flora in the mouth causing teeth to decay more rapidly, and increases the speed of gum disease. with normal flora dead, the initial act of digestion of food is stopped due to lack of enzymes. initial digestion starts in mouth not stomach. dead normal flora causes yeast and fungal infections of the mouth. this normal flora is also killed in the intestines, cause lack of digestion and systemic yeast and fungal infections. these yeast and fungal infections are many times the underlying cause people do not get better on abx alone, and one of the reasons the IDSA does not approve of long term abx. 3) with the loss of normal flora from abx, herpes infections also kick in. this can be prevented by long term antiviral meds. 4)in conjunction with lack of good digestion the stomach gets too much acid, GERD. this acid regurgitates back to the throat and mouth and can cause a high acid content in the mouth, hence dissolving the enamel. 5) MULTIPLE ABX CAUSE INCREASE PROBLEMS IN ALL AREAS. 6) old filling, crowns fall off from decay. 7) pain in mouth ,teeth ears, head and neck: Tmj is an inflammation of the joint of the jaw. It is a bilateral joint consisting of 2 joints joined together, it is the only joint in the body With 2 joints. When you have 2 joints locked together and one side is out of alignment, loss of teeth, Poor dental work, bruxism,heavy chewing, ie gum, then also the other side is out of alignment. It is like your car, both sides need to be aligned in the correct position before you can drive straight. Squeezing of the jaw on one side puts pressure on the muscles ,nerves, blood vessels of the Head, neck, face, upper back, causing pain and muscle spasms. Stress is a major factor contributing to TMJ. This is either physical, mental or illness 8) trigeminal nerve and facial nerve involvement in facial pain. The 5th facial nerve and 7th trigeminal nerve are both cranial nerve leading from the spine. The 5th goes to the face and can cause bell's palsy. This is sometimes associated with Infection of the parotid glands, and most certainly found in neuralgias caused by lyme disease. The 7th nerve goes through the ear canal along with the 5th and goes down the length of the Lower jaw to bring nerve supply to the bottom teeth, muscles of the jaw and branches to the Inside and gets the tongue. LYME CAUSES NEURALGIA!!!!! Any neuralgia along the 7th and sometimes 5th Cranial nerves cause, phantom pain, sensitivity to cold first, then hot then infection and Abscess. Pain in the gums and muscles can also be caused by neuralgias and infections. IN CONCLUSION PART 1 LYME,MEDS,YEAST,FUNGI, VIRUSES ARE ALL CONTRIBUTING FACTORS FOR DENTAL, HEAD AND NECK AND BACK PROBLEMS.
PART 2 WILL COME NEXT. will also edit this with more info,tired now DOCDAVE
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Thanks, Dave. You're just full of good news today!!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
STymie YOU ROCK*)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had terrible TMJ from Lyme & Babs but it's all gone*!)*)!*)!!!)
Thank you for that explanation*)!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
My 11 year old son just went to the Dentist and he has 8 cavities and the beginning of gum disease. I wanted to check to see if there are any vitamins or specific medications that could help with this. He was diagnosed with Lyme in August 2005. The dentist has given him a special mouthwash to use daily.
posted
Thanks DocDave, good info to know. I've had problems in this area as well.
SonWithLyme- I've tried PerioWash by Nature's Answer- about $11.00. I find it really helps with keeping my mouth moist. The guy marketing it did a demo at WholeFoods one day. He took a swab from a woman's mouth and put it on a slide under a microscope. To my surprise, you could see spirocheets- so I asked him to confirm it and he did. (however, not sure what KIND they were)
He did a swab on me and found large white cells and asked if I was on antibiotics, which of couse I was. He's lyme friendly. I have his number somewhere, he is in NJ and seems to know about lyme. Hope this helps.
Posts: 11 | From NYC | Registered: Aug 2007
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Aniek
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posted
Doc,
Does Lyme itself cause dry mouth, or is it a side effect from meds?
As far as staining from abx, I've always found it comes right off at the dentist. I was a bad girl and had over 2 years between my last dental cleanings (hard to fit in when you have 2-4 doctor visits a month). The cleaning took a while, but no stains left.
The dental assistant nodded when I said the stains were from abx. The assistant at my last dentist's office had never heard of that before. I've definitely noticed amoxycillin is a stain culprit.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
How many lyme literate dentists do we get to talk to on an everyday basis?
When I was on Tetra the back of my lower incisors seemed to have some type of heavy scaly build up on them...it was stained also. The only place in my mouth that this occured.
Could vitamin C have stopped that? It was scaly enough to require a couple cleanings to get off and wouldn't budge with my efforts.
stymielymie
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posted
first guys, i've been here 5 years. second the spiroctes seen on microscope are PROBABLY FUSIFORM BACTERIA, NORMAL FLORA. LYME IS RARELY SEEN IN SALIVA. LYME BACTERIA ARE FEW IN NUMBER AND EVEN HARD TO FIND IN BLOOD, HENCE NEGATIVE PCR'S.
http://www.textbookofbacteriology.net/normalflora.html LYME CAN CAUSE DRY MOUTH,ALL AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAN CAUSE A SECONDARY SJORGREN'S. SOME MEDS CAN CAUSE DRY MOUTH. CARDIAC MEDS,SINUS MEDS, BETA BLOCKERS, HBP MEDS, DIURETICS,AND 100 OTHER.
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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TerryK
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Thanks for the useful info stymie.
I'm wondering if powdered acidophilus in the mouth would help those of us on abx or other anti-microbial therapy? It would at least help replenish some of the beneficial bacteria in the mouth I would think.
Do you have any ideas of ways to deal with dry mouth for people with dentures. My mother has dentures and untreated lyme disease. The dry mouth makes wearing the dentures very difficult since it causes mouth tenderness and sores. I tried to tell her assisted living facility that her mouth is dry and that's why she can't wear her dentures but they state that the problem is that she doesn't wear her dentures enough so that's why her mouth is tender. I looked into meds but they have side effects that make her orthostatic hypotension worse. I recently saw some denture liners for dry mouth and wonder if those might help? Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks again for the useful info.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Itsy_bitsyone
Unregistered
posted
Dave,
My teeth got rather bad over the last 6 years or so. (I've had Lyme 30+ years). Anyway, soon after the problem started I was misdiagnosed Sjogren's, because of the dry mouth, parotid and submandibular gland swellings, and I failed my schrimer's eye tests. With the Lyme neuro stuff and the arthritic and lymph nodes and on and on, well, while I didn't test positive for Sjo, I was given the dx and for years thats what I thought I had.
NOTHING I have done has stopped the spread...super toothbrushes, different washes and tooth pastes...didn't matter...no matter how I tried, my teeth just get worse.
After 3 1/2 mo of abx, I finally do not have saliva gland swelling for the first time in YEARS...unfortunately, the teeth are already far gone...
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stymielymie
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terry: try the denture liners, they should help. no saliva makes it impossible to wear dentures. saliva causes suction. there is no cure for dentures and no saliva but implants and clips
itsy: you can have sjorgren's, which from your symptoms i would say the doc correctly dx. sjorgren's along with all autoimmune diseases can have mulitple negative tests and still have the disease. my motherin law tested negative 20 times for all autoimmune diseases. when i was in dental school she developed a malar rash and parotid swelling. i dx her with lupus. Hopkin's then said after i saw her she had lupus. after 4 years of testing,dumb docs, and i was in 2 year dental school and dx her.
ana and other tests really mean nothing as in lyme. dx must be made on symptoms, not tests.
the abx cleared the sjorgren's because that is the treatment of choice now. believe it or not,even now they treat many autoimmune diseases still with heavy ,heavy doses of cortisone to control inflamation, while the steroids destroy the immune system even more.
go to the sjorgren's site and look at the new treatment, it will look very familiar.
i had no tears when tested, no saliva, and very little sweat, with very difficult trouble overheating, because i could not sweat. we tested everything, adrenals,thyroid, and then i realized i had no sweat when i exercised. my temp would go from 97 to 102 in 2-3 minutes passed out 4-5 times.
so maybe your doc was not so stupid as you thought, he dx you by symptoms. it is not uncommon to get secondary sjorgren's from lyme, it is on the site
docdave
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hiker53
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I use a toothpsate called Biotene which helps with dry mouth. I also carry a small spray bottle called Oasis made by Sensodyne that really helps teh dry mouth.
I do break open acidophilus capsules and swish them in my mouth, too. Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8890 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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oxygenbabe
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posted
Lyme suppresses your immunity and renders you vulnerable to other infections. I believe now I had a chronic lyme that wasn't so bad since age 21, when I spent a summer in Connecticut, had a weird rash, joint pains etc. But anyway, I already had a ton of mercury amalgam fillings from the time they'd taken my braces off. They had already affected my health somewhat (after getting those fillings I got mono, strep throat, and food allergies). They may have rendered me more vulnerable to lyme. If you don't have good strong detox genetics you may not be able to detox a boatload of mercury esp. if they remove braces, you have a bunch of cavities, and your whole mouth is filled with mercury all at once.
But after that tickbite things got much worse. I replaced, over about two years, all the fillings with resins. However, that meant all the fillings had to be bigger (drill out the old one, the next one you put it in is bigger). This in the end creates more problems, as all fillings leak eventually.
As long as I took high potency Vitamin C/vitamin/mineral drips (about 15 grams of C a week) my teeth seemed basically okay. But when I stopped getting those high doses, in retrospect, that's when my teeth went kaflooey, and lots of stuff went to the roots, I ended up needing root canals that I couldn't tolerate (chemical sensitivity) and over the next 10 years had four different teeth pulled. And two others are in bad shape.
Some of it is the history of bad medicine--sorry, but you simply DON'T PUT A TOXIC METAL in people's mouths, no matter what.
But some of it is the lyme lowering immunity.
Same reason lymies have other chronic infections like sinus, bladder, etc.
BTW, my first lyme was really not that bad compared to my second tickbite. That second tickbite tried to kill me! Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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AliG
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posted
I need to read this but I can't stay awake anymore. I'm posting this to bump up from the bottom so I can hopefully see it tomorrow & remember to read it.
Thanks Doc!
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Itsy_bitsyone
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posted
Dave,
I went looking for this thread cause I finally remembered it today and it got down on the list. I HAD WANTED to read what you posted back...
So, you think that having a clinical dx of Sjo is actually correct...but secondary to bacterial infection rather then an independant autoimmune process like Lupus.
That's interesting, because I am convinced Sjo does exist on its own...however, I thought with me that it was the Lyme presenting as Sjo...not Sjo caused by Lyme. Interesting...
A rhumey dx'ed me several years ago as I mentioned. He was convinced it was Sjogren's...heck I was too, as I have every last symptom...though I do have more than that...but I gave up looking. Getting the "real" answer about Lyme makes more sense to me...and came by accident. I was no longer looking for answers after the Sjogren's dx. He does prescibe steriods to some of his patients...lucky for me, I never took any. I did take the hydroxychloroquin for a few months...it didn't help me so I stopped.
Anyway...how far decayed can your teeth be and still get caps as opposed to getting the yanked and get dentures? As someone with Sjo...or sjo symptomology (no saliva when you swab, no tear production in my right eye, < 2mm in left, etc etc etc)...I am thinking that with the lack of saliva the dentures would be a difficult thing because of the rubbing and irritation due to dry mouth. In addition, does getting lots of caps mean lots of root canals? Do Sjoies do better with caps than dentures?
Obviously you have battled this as well...are you better? Maybe we need a Lyme caused my Sjogren's thread??
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CaliforniaLyme
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Dave, would you ever write this kind of stuff out in a downloadable pamphlet form? I pamphlet locally and do all the docs with our local pamphlet but I palways pass the dentists by because I feel like i don't have the right literature for them- i f there was a simple 1 page (both sides) pamphlet written by a dentist I could drop it at dental offices all over SC county- in FACT- I am positive if you made upa good downloadable pamphlet addressed to dentists it would be downloaded across the USA and given to dentists of lYmies everywhere- you would be the Superhero Lymie Dentist*)! We need one- at least we need a pamphlet anyway!! DOn't say no, just think about it- a fun project!!! Our local group just redid our local pamphlet and it came out looking great and makes a real difference.
Think about it if you need a project*)!*)!! Sincerely,
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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tailz
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"rampant cavities occur also in radiation treatment in the area of head and neck."
treepatrol
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posted
Hey Doc I had a right rear molar break while chewing a apple not exactly the hardest thing in the world.Question what what lyme thing would caues that or is it a deletion of some mineral I need?
Oh while Iam at it the silver fillings what is the very best and second best replacement Material?
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
stymielymie
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posted
from calilyme: i would be happy to make up a pamphlet and email it to you. i have most of the info posted or saved. its just a matter of putting it together. i'll pm you when i have it ready.
the broken molar and bicupid is very common and occurs not from lyme. large fillings undercut the enamel amking them prone to fracture.] usually is upper inside. lower outside or inside, many times its just a corner of the molar called the cusp. bicuspids almost only fracture thru the middle front to back. \ this cracked tooth syndrome is the downfall of many dentists ,\ you can have a cracked tooth ,with pain and the dentist can find nothing. sometimes without fillings.
simple test for cracked tooth. bite on a cutip or icecream stick squeeze firmly. if it hurts when you let up on the biting it is a cracked tooth if it hurts when you bite down, you have an abscess. not 100% reliable but pretty close in 23 years practice
vfend or diflucan withg abx pribiotics will not stop ssytemic yeast or fungi
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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hshbmom
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posted
RE dark stains on teeth
Are there any preventative measures or remedies we should take while on antibiotics?
Should we have more frequent cleanings?
Would insurance cover more frequent cleanings if they were a medical necessity?
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treepatrol
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quote:Originally posted by stymielymie: from calilyme: i would be happy to make up a pamphlet and email it to you. i have most of the info posted or saved. its just a matter of putting it together. i'll pm you when i have it ready.
the broken molar and bicupid is very common and occurs not from lyme. large fillings undercut the enamel amking them prone to fracture.] usually is upper inside. lower outside or inside, many times its just a corner of the molar called the cusp. bicuspids almost only fracture thru the middle front to back. \ this cracked tooth syndrome is the downfall of many dentists ,\ you can have a cracked tooth ,with pain and the dentist can find nothing. sometimes without fillings.
simple test for cracked tooth. bite on a cutip or icecream stick squeeze firmly. if it hurts when you let up on the biting it is a cracked tooth if it hurts when you bite down, you have an abscess. not 100% reliable but pretty close in 23 years practice
vfend or diflucan withg abx pribiotics will not stop ssytemic yeast or fungi
docdave
the broken molar and bicupid is very common and occurs not from lyme. large fillings undercut the enamel amking them prone to fracture.] usually is upper inside.
I guess I should have mentioned that the tooth did not have a filling but its going to now.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
You answered everyone's question but mine.
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stymielymie
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nancy m,ake up a list i will answer it tommorow. i have to go to synagogue for Yom Kippur tonight. save my soul and all.
love dave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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stymielymie
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Nancy: the issue of no saliva, lots of decay and broken teeth are a major problem in the treatment of Sjorgrens or lyme induced sjorgren's either way it is the same symptoms.
i would suggest an evaluation from a prosthodontist. i would remove the bad teeth and save several teeth to anchor a partial denture. and good teeth will help hold the partial in the mouth.
next option if no teeth salvagable , is to place stategic implants to hold a denture with clips. these work real well but take time. cobweb had this done, you may talk with her.
this would be the best of your options. i would not spend big money to crown all the teeth, as they will still decay at the edges without saliva to protect them.
partial woud be the best choice is you have enough good teeth to anchor on. fluoride rinses are a must.
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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stymielymie
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up for nancy
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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Itsy_bitsyone
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posted
Dave...
Thanks. Not quite sure where to find a prostodontist...at least not out here...but I am sure if I travel!
I'm sure some are salvagable...with work. My bottoms ones, at least in front...are decaying inside...so no one can see it but I know it. I have some in the front on top, but not awful...yet it is embarrassing to smile.
Thanks for bumping it up for me...I'm not on over the weekend and I had my LLMD appt today.
stymielymie
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posted
a good gp will work if you can get a copy of a full mouth xrays email or send to me i will send you a second oppinion. [email protected]Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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lpkayak
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i'm ready for part two when you are!
this is all happening to me for the first time...gees will it ever quit????
thanks for info
(i'll have to deal with this soon...too much pain spreading too fast...i wonder if i'll lose weight finally!)
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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CaliforniaLyme
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YAY!*))!* GREAT!!!! Will look forward to it- I've been wanting to do the Dentists (pamphlet them!) for a long time!!! Just doesn't feel right not having anything dental specific to give them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!)*)*!! It will help people!! We have Lyme friendly dentists around ehre- they just don't KNOW anything re Lyme!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are open to it- more than MDs!!!
Sincerely,
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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trueblue
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posted
I have a question if you wouldn't mind DocDave.
Looks like I'll be needing some evaluation and possible recontructive dentistry for TMJ caused by childhood braces and the removeal of too many teeth to accomodate them. Grrr... I am in the age group that they pulled permanent teeth to make room.
absolutley no regard to bite and the result was TMJ in my early teens. I've got a referral to someone for a consult but have never heard of him. Perhaps you have. Mind if I PM you with his name? (It is not that hack Dr Fatah, money grubbing hack, grrr...)
I can't believe in all these years it looks like I'm going to have to fix this to go on and halt the process of deterioration. Pffft...
Sorry, I'm not even sure this is a question. Thanks for the good advice and the willingness to share what you know.
true
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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kam
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posted
Doc Dave,
Would you mind spacing your first post a little bit more.
It seems many were able to read it as it is, but this one.
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johnnyb
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posted
This is good stuff to know.
But for those of us on ABX, how to lessen the risk to teeth? Lots of vitamin C, as O-Babe suggests?
Probiotics? Anything else?
[ 20. June 2008, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: johnnyb ]
Posts: 1197 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
HELP HELP HELP............. I'l try to put this in the Readers' Digest condensed version.
I started in Feb after tons of ABX's for 1 year with blisters under my palate. I also had a excess of saliva. In June I had 4 old silver's removed and a biopsy of a bump on the gum which they said was a fatty tissue.
My gums are so sore and now all my teeth seem to sensitive. And turning dark.
Here's the kicker, I have a MOLD in my sputum called Cladosporuim, and was told to stay off all antibiotics.
Help doc dave......had a CAT scan for sinus and they are doing a saliography (sp) to check my parotids.
What the h____ Lyme fungus.....I am so afraid they are going to diagnos with me Sjoren's......
Here I thought I did the right thing by having the silvers removed......I wish I would have left them in.
Any ideas??????????????????????? I am in pain and not one doc wants to address this issue.....Fungus, Mold, Lyme HELP......
Thanx.....................
Posts: 116 | From state of lyme | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
bumping up again..........
Posts: 116 | From state of lyme | Registered: Oct 2006
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luvs2ride
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posted
TS
Please don't be afraid if they diagnose you with Sjorgens. It is just a title. It is microbe driven and can be fixed. Just gotta find the right doctor.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
hmm... now i know why the dentist was so dumbfounded at my dry mouth and thinning enamel.
and why the doctor noticed swollen salivary glands.
it's so strange the way all the pieces fit together after the diagnosis.
of course none of my friends or family believe me when i now tell them this is all because of lyme.
Posts: 35 | From Washington, dc | Registered: Jul 2007
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stymielymie
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posted
FUNGI AND MOLD these can be treated both topically and systemicly and both should be done.
vfend is the stongest antiyeast, and also antifungal on the market today.
metronizole lozenges should be used for oral. nasal not sure may need to see ent.
i would use afrin(it is addictive) but will clear any fluid in the sinuses.
if vaginal also, then nystatin suppositories in the vagina. NO SUGAR,YEAST, OR MOLD PRODUCTS not a real expert on fungi and yeast but this is what i use when i get into trouble.
double dose of probiotics. POINT OF INTEREST: PROBIOTICS ONLY HELP RESTORE SOME OF THE NORMAL FLORA. HEAVY LONG TERM DOSES OF ABX WILL KILL NORMAL FLORA AND SUPERINFECTION OCCURS.
THAT IS WHEN YEAST,FUNGI, VIRUSES, STAPH , STREP AND OTHERS TAKE OVER.
PROBIOTICS IS MANY TO RESTORE GI BACTERIA, BUT CAN NOT WORK ONCE THE BODY IS OVERWHELMED WITH SUPERINFECTION.
DOCDAVE
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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tailz
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posted
It ruined my teeth - I'll never smile again.
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Please don't be afraid if they diagnose you with Sjorgens. It is just a title. It is microbe driven and can be fixed. Just gotta find the right doctor.
luvs2ride, Do you mind explaining "microbe driven and can be fixed". I thought Sjogrens was an autoimmune disease and has no cure. Just has to be managed.
Sure would like to know if it can be cured. My eyes as so dry (and tear ducts are plugged) and miserable and my mouth is always swollen. Is it Lyme .... Sjogrens or both ... who knows...
Posts: 58 | From SC | Registered: May 2004
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stymielymie
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posted
lyme and sjorgren 's are basically treated with the same protocol, as is lupus. days of steroid treatment are basically gone.
many here as lymies can get or do have secondary sjorgren's. i as a man have it, due to my lyme, and it is very rare in men.
or course some here will say that i act like a woman.lol
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by stymielymie: lyme and sjorgren 's are basically treated with the same protocol, as is lupus. days of steroid treatment are basically gone.
You are so funny ...... act like a woman
So are you saying antibiotics can improve Sjogrens symptoms as well as Lupus? Given one also follows other treatment plans including diet, exercise, supplements, etc...
The one thing I used for a few months for my eyes and decided to stop was Restasis. It continued to burn my eyes after two months of treatment and I was worried about the steriods even if the eye Doc says it's not a significant amount.
Posts: 58 | From SC | Registered: May 2004
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daise
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posted
I just saw this thread.
DocDave: YES--it makes sense! Thank you for this post.
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Good topic, Doc Dave.
I've recently started using xylitol mints and nasal wash. I also got some xylitol `sugar', but have not used it much yet. But it tastes (and even looks) almost exactly like sugar.
Xylitol is actually endorsed by the following Dental Associations: Finnish, Swedish, Norwegian, British, Irish, and Estonian.
Xylitol helps prevent plaque and inhibits the growth of the bacteria that cause tooth decay. I believe it can also help with dry mouth issues, but I have not been paying attention that part.
I've heard that it actually kills or inhibits a number of other micro-organisms, with other health benefits, as well.
I do know that since I've been using the nasal wash just once before bedtime, I've cut down on my `mucus attacks' by about 40%, which is a lot for me. I still have periods where I start coughing and have lots of mucus that collects in my throat and nose, it is far less than it was 2 weeks ago.
I keep forgetting to use the mints! I'm trying to remember to suck on a couple of the lemon mints after I eat anything.
Here are a couple of links for more info on xylitol:
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Thank you SO MUCH for all this great, solid information!!
I too, regret having all my molars redrilled to remove mercury (all of them big and deep), and filled with resin. I think the trauma of it killed several of my molars. I probably had a lousy dentist on top of it all.
Thanks for the pointer on determining a cracked tooth vs. an abcess. very helpful.
Take care,
Anneke
Posts: 364 | From California | Registered: Sep 2005
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
I'm seeing my LLMD on Mon.....will ask about Vfend.
What would be the correct dosage in case he is not familiar with it ? I never heard of it myself till I read the posts.
Just a side note, went to the Cleveland Clinic last week for the blisters in my mouth, and the Dr. there said they have NO Lyme disease in Ohio. What an a--!!!!!!!!!! Every question I asked him about abnormal labs his answer was "I don't know!" My husband and I were floored to say the least. A waste of time, 3 1/2 hours one way for a 45 minute no answer visit......
You guys and gals are tooooooo much....... Thanx
Posts: 116 | From state of lyme | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Hey Doc, Great topic! What do you know about tmj? How bad can it get?
I was dx with it in 1994. It's so bad I can't wear glasses, towel on my head after shower, or have shower with the water spraying on my head.
I can't eat an apple, not even a sliced one. I frequently get muscle spasms on my face and jaws of course with aching jaw line.
However, I really shouldn't complain because this is significant improvement. Maybe this is babs or bart or something that I've never been tested for or treated for.
Or maybe it's a deep dental infection from when I was a kid. I do have 2 or 3 silver fillings left.
I just want to know. Well, I guess I already know that it can get worse. I should be thankful that I don't still have that horrible constant burning ache in my head daily for 11 and half years.
I have to always remind myself to be thankful for that. I feel too selfish to ask god for better because I asked to take that burning away and he did. So now I won't ask for more cause there is lots of people worse off.
If you have any thoughts I'd appreciate them.
Posts: 290 | From ohio | Registered: Dec 2005
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Sheri, yes, xylitol is available at most larger health food stores. I ordered all my xylitol products from Vitacost. The primary brand out there is Xlear, but more companies are starting to come out with products, too.
I think there are a couple of regular brands of chewing gum that are made with xylitol - I think Eclipse gum may be one of them. Not sure, I don't chew gum.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
This is falls into the same area, but how do you treat lyme if yeast and fungi are present?
The only example I can think of is a bathroom shower....if you don't get rid of the mold bu scrubbing or bleach it doesn't go away.
I believe the yeast in the mouth was made worse with silver removal, but the antibiotics make the thrush so bad it's unbearable.
Yikes..................
Thanks for the info on Xylitol.
Posts: 116 | From state of lyme | Registered: Oct 2006
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
sheri: the fungi i am talking about are mold spores in the body. eating a mushroom is a fungi and can possible cause fungi in the body. this topic has been discussed before. your never get better from lyme without getting out the systemic yeast and molds.
you need to be on long doses of diflucan or vfend http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/vfend.htm there is point in long term abx treatment that probitics don't really help. the body gets overwhelmed with systemic yeast and must be killed.
that is why pulse abx of short term abx is actually better than continuous abx. IDSA is correct about the use of long term abx, sometimes the risk outway the benifits. also risk becoming abx resistant.
to knock out my lyme and babs into remission , 4 months now. i used zithro bid, doxy bid, vfend qd, acyclovir bid (antiviral),mepron tid, motrin,probiotics and trileptal for neuralgia.
4 weeks abx and others then stopped abx and 5 weeks of vfend,acylovir,trileptal.
this was my formula ,not the docs formula. i decide what goes in my body and he writes the rx. 90% of symptoms gone. neurolyme still present. BUT IN CAN FUNCTION ALMOST NORMALLY EXCEPT NAP IN AFTERNOON.
SO EVERYBODY HAS A DIFFERENT APPROACH AND THIS WORKED FOR ME.
I HAD ONE RELAPSE AND I WENT ON ABX FOR WEEK AND VFEND THEN STOPPED.
I NOWE TREAT IS AS IF IT WERE A COLD.
DOCDAVE
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Hi docdave, Your approach makes total sense to me. I was overloaded with abx's my first 6 month of treatment, and had the candida to begin with.
I believe the yeast is what needs to be addressed.
Thank you for all the info, enjoy and take your comments and suggestions to heart.
I wish I could go with your approach, but 1 Doxy turns my mouth and tongue whitewash white. Maybe my doc will agree to start with the yeast issues first.
I did have a cladosporium species cultured from my sputum. Hope the Vfend will attack that.
I wrote on another post an Inf Disease duck at the Cleveland Clinic told me he doesn't know what to make of the Cladosporium!!!! Go figure ??
I am taking Difulcan on my own 100mgs a day that I had left over, till I see the doc on Monday.
How much Vfend were you on ? I see they are 50mg and 200mg tablets .
Thankxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Sherri
Posts: 116 | From state of lyme | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Do you know whether Lyme is in saliva? Has it been seen there through darkfield microscopy? Could Lyme be passed to others through saliva on dishes?
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
i would say no, not impossible but no. first there are too little bacteria in the whole body, that why many pcrs are negative. second you would need an open sore in your mouth to get it from saliva.
they claim you can't get AIDS from saliva which is a much more potent virus.
the only case of a dentist giving AIDS to a patient ,the one that changed everything, was given to the patient on purpose. the dentist was crazy and for some reason, i don't know he gave it to a girl.he actually dropped blood in her mouth after creating a cut.
dishwashers should kill bb, it kills aids, so just wash your dishes, if you are worried.
kissing may be a little more probable, and sex may be even more probable. but the risk is still probably very very low.
docdave.
ps: tmj may be caused by lyme ,but there are so many other causes that lyme is low on the list might want to try a niteguard. the niteguard need to be made so that the lower front teeth come foward and release pressure. the lower teeth should come to the upper front teeth and 3-5 mm space opening. this releases stress on all the muscles of mastication. stress or trauma are the main causes of tmj. teeth out of alignment or braces where they took out 4 bicuspids is also a reason.
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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trueblue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7348
posted
quote:Originally posted by stymielymie: ps: tmj may be caused by lyme ,but there are so many other causes that lyme is low on the list might want to try a niteguard. the niteguard need to be made so that the lower front teeth come foward and release pressure. the lower teeth should come to the upper front teeth and 3-5 mm space opening. this releases stress on all the muscles of mastication. stress or trauma are the main causes of tmj. teeth out of alignment or braces where they took out 4 bicuspids is also a reason.
docdave
Teeth out of alignment because of bicuspid removal and braces done without regard to the bite was the cause. This pre-exists Lyme for me.
I have had 2 lower apppliances (I think the last a gelb) over the past 30+ years. I did go to the new DMD for evaluation and had a new splint made.
I think it's terribly wrong. They made an upper which doesn't support my lower jaw or relax any of the muscles. I'm 10 times worse. I am completely miserable with vicious headaches. (ear ringing, blurred vision, massive pressure, nausea...)
I'll call them on Monday and see what can be done. This is way past a level of pain I can deal with.
The bones in my face feel like they're going to blow off and all the muscles in my head, neck and shoulders are in complete spasm (and on fire).
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