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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Dr. Marshall's argument that we should not be supplementing our diet with Vitamin D

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Author Topic: Dr. Marshall's argument that we should not be supplementing our diet with Vitamin D
free2reckon
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edited...

[This message has been edited by free2reckon (edited 13 May 2004).]


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Scrambled_brain
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Wouldn't this suggest we should also stay indoors with our shades closed to prevent sunlight?

I would be interested to know how may people feel worse in the sun or taking vit. D?

One other thing in the article. It says that those with viral infections (HHV6, EBv etc) have LOW 1,25-D. My conclusion is that inhibiting it with Benicar may make you worse. I know people with lyme that have + PCR for HHV6.

I think this stresses again that one should get that parameter measured before assuming the Marshall protocol will work for you. Some of us have very complicated illnesses, and I don't think it is just 'lyme' for everyone, IMO.


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jen13
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Exactly. And for all you know you might have a mix of active viral and bacterial and fungal pathogens, for which benicar might be useful in some and detrimental in others. This is a complex "illness" and everybody is individual.
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Marnie
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The ROOT of the problem is the fact that Bb seriously depletes magnesium and this spirals out of control.

This metalloprotease (Bb) uses Mg in its enzyme reactions as stated by microbiologist, Dr. Gary Kaiser.

Furthermore, according to the recent research out of Romania, it appears to SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the avail. amt. of Mg very fast. The % decrease is astounding.

Restoring the normal level of Mg while giving abx. did cure the 2 Romanian patients (see abstract under "If this doesn't convince you". Why? Lots of reasons, but here is a "technical" explanation:

"To justify this prediction you have to scan back to the factors which effect the rate of the reaction, there it says at a higher concentration of an Acid there is more Hydrogen ions amiable to react with the Magnesium atoms than at a lower concentration.

This can be summed up simply in that at a higher concentration there is more Hydrogen ions present so more collisions occur therefore reaction takes less time."
http://www.coursework.info/i/67.html

By giving (acidic) abx. ALONG with a significant amt. of Mg. -> hydrogen.


"Magnesium helps the body convert vitamin D--which the body needs to take advantage of bone-strengthening calcium--into a form that it can use efficiently. By contributing to increased bone density, the mineral may help stall the onset of the debilitating, bone-thinning disease known as osteoporosis."
http://www.wholehealthmd.
com/refshelf/substances_
view/1,1525,890,00.html

Not enough Mg to convert vit D perhaps.

Scott, you did not respond to this abstract, why?

: J Hypertens. 1993 May;11(5):551-8. Related Articles, Links

The effect of angiotensin II on platelet intracellular free magnesium and calcium ionic concentrations in essential hypertension.

Touyz RM, Schiffrin EL.

Clinical Research Institute of Montreal, University of Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

OBJECTIVE: To assess the effects of angiotensin II on intracellular free Mg2+ and Ca2+ concentrations in platelets from normotensive and hypertensive subjects.

DESIGN AND METHODS: Seventeen normotensive, 25 untreated hypertensive and 18 treated hypertensive patients were studied. Intracellular Mg2+ concentrations were measured with the fluorescent dye mag-fura-2-acetyoxymethylester (AM) and intracellular Ca2+ concentrations with the fluorescent dye fura-2AM under basal conditions and after stimulation by angiotensin II, saralasin (angiotensin II antagonist), arginine vasopressin and endothelin-1.

The effects of increased extracellular Mg2+ concentrations on intracellular Mg2+ and Ca2+ concentrations were also determined.

RESULTS: The intracellular basal Ca2+ concentration was significantly higher in the untreated hypertensives compared with the normotensives and treated hypertensive subjects (150 +/- 14 nmol/l versus 120 +/- 17 nmol/l for normotensives and 124 +/- 8 nmol/l for treated hypertensives).

The basal intracellular Mg2+ concentration was significantly lower in the untreated hypertensive compared to the normotensive and treated hypertensive groups (0.37 +/- 0.08 mumol/l versus 0.58 +/- 0.09 mumol/l for normotensives and 0.52 +/- 0.11 mumol/l for treated hypertensives). In the hypertensive groups, inverse correlations were found between intracellular Ca2+ and intracellular Mg2+ concentrations (r = -0.44, P < 0.05) and between intracellular Mg2+ and diastolic blood pressure (r = -0.35, P < 0.05), while a positive correlation was found between intracellular Ca2+ and systolic blood pressure (r = 0.41, P < 0.05).

Exposure of the platelets to 1 nmol/l angiotensin II significantly increased intracellular Ca2+ and significantly decreased intracellular Mg2+ concentrations in all three groups. The angiotensin II-evoked effect on intracellular Ca2+ was exaggerated in the untreated hypertensives and blunted in the treated patients (basal versus stimulated: 150 +/- 14 versus 217 +/- 20 nmol/l in untreated hypertensives; 124 +/- 8 versus 140 +/- 10 nmol/l in treated hypertensives).

Saralasin (0.1 mumol/l) abolished the effects of angiotensin. Arginine vasopressin (1 mumol/l) increased the intracellular Ca2+ concentration, whereas endothelin-1 (1 nmol/l) had no significant effect on either intracellular Ca2+ or intracellular Mg2+.

Increasing extracellular Mg2+ concentrations led to significant reductions in intracellular Ca2+ concentrations in all groups and a significant elevation of the intracellular Mg2+ concentration in the untreated hypertensive patients only.

CONCLUSIONS: These data demonstrate a relationship between angiotensin II and intracellular magnesium and calcium. In hypertension, angiotensin II-stimulated calcium responses may be related to simultaneously decreased intracellular magnesium concentrations.

PMID: 8390527


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dmcbrayer
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I feel a lot better when I am able to get out in the sunshine and fresh air while going for a walk.

Very relaxing to me.

DMC


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lla2
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I always feel the best when I'm off for the summer and at the beach in the sun everyday....usually have little or no lyme symptoms during this time...have all mine in the winter with no sun.

Lisa


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pennyhoule
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My oldest daughter has photosensitivity, which sucks because we live in San Diego where the sun perpetually shines. She gets bad headaches in the sun, prefers the dark. Her opthamologist told her she should really move to London or Oregon where it rains a lot. My daughter actually feels energized in the rain. Now my youngest is claiming the same thing, although it could just be big sister influence, and the novelty of it, since we get so little.

I'm just the opposite, love the sun, need sun or I get depressed, but I have become more sensitive to bright sunlight than I ever used to be.

penny


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phage
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Penny said:

>I'm just the opposite, love the sun, need sun or I get depressed, but I have become more sensitive to bright sunlight than I ever used to be.

Lisa said:

>I always feel the best when I'm off for the summer and at the beach in the sun everyday....usually have little or no lyme symptoms during this time...have all mine in the winter with no sun.


I'm both thrilled and annoyed to hear this. Finally I've found people who have this pattern of symptoms. But I'm feeling a bit ignored also. I had a lot to say about this in the "cure--ACE inhibitors" thread.

If you believe (as I once believed) that sunny weather makes you feel better because of the light, then you should use (as I once used) the bright light "therapy" during winter months and cloudy days. Have you tried this, and was it successful? It just about killed me.

Are you sure it's the light, and not the temperature/barometric pressure?


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riversinger
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I agree that before restricting vitamin D or sunlight, that Marshall's testing should be done first to make sure this is an issue.

Some people DO have vitamin D defienciencies, and you wouldn't want to exacerbate that.


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Scrambled_brain
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Will Vit D intake or sunlight prior to D1,25 testing affect the results? This would seem important.
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pennyhoule
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I am certain that I've always needed light. I grew up in cloudy, rainy, Oregon, and it was extremely difficult. I love the constant sun shine of Southern Cal, but I really can't say whether this has anything to do with my illness or not.

My daughter's just the opposite. She's also displaying same symptoms I started with. Mainly fatigue and migraines. She can NOT handle sunlight. It causes instant migraines.

penny


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phage
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Penny

I lived about 30 years in Oregon's Willamette valley. It's a cloudy, rainy, sloppy mess. A few years ago I moved to the Deep South. I hated to do it--the pacific NW is my home. But like you, the sunny weather has done me a world of good.

How do you explain the putative influence of light on your depression?

You say that you are becoming sensitive to sunlight. You mean in a negative way? How do you explain this? If you link to the hypervitaminosis D symptoms thread at:
www.sarcinfo.com

you will see photosensitivity listed as a symptom.

Did you at least read my post about SAD?

Penny, I feel that the last 17 years or so of my life have come down to this moment.

Maybe I'm wrong about sunshine. If you show me some indication that you took 5 minutes to read my posts in "cure-ACE inhibitor" and read the symptoms of hypervitaminosis D, then I will leave you alone. It's not fair to blow me off on this one.


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