Seems that the any increase in dose is killing more of the bugs every time.
How high have you ever gone with Amoxicillin dose?
I seem to tolerate this antibiotic rather well.
Have you been experimenting with doses of other antibiotics in similar way?
Wow, 6Gs a day! The highest dose of Amoxy that I could get to was 16mg per day (800 BID).
You are a real trooper if you can handle 6 grams a day. No wonder you have toxic symptoms. It must be killing an awful lot of bugs and flora.
Am curious to see what others have to say.
Bc
Never bothered me, I wasnt sick all the time. Had my 28 day herx, got over it and felt a smidget better. Wass a life saver.
I have used probiotics and antifungal diet.
Next Tue I might go even higher although I feel I am close to plateau.
Here is what I found from Dr B's list.
"*Amoxicillin- Adults: 1g q8h plus probenecid 500mg q8h; doses up to 6 grams
daily are often needed"
Maybe try the probenecid, this way you wont have to go as high, or maybe.
I dont know much about this, but others may.
Maybe you have to be monitored with high dosage, the liver/kidneys.
You dont want to do damage to these organs and then have to STOP antibiotics for while or good.
I bet there is a special way possibly to high dose this antibiotic, like off and on or for a short period of time.
Again, I dont know much about this, others may come along and know.
Trish
A pharmacologist once told me that your body simply won't absorb enough oral amox to hurt you. I guess this is why it's the abx of choice for kids.
I think to get higher concentrations you have to go to bicillin shots.
And Areneli...diarrhoea???.... what's next? haemorrhoids? You must be anal about spelling.
Like me 
Charlie
[This message has been edited by charlie (edited 22 January 2005).]
unfortunately amoxy has a very short half-life, like 2 hrs. this is why high, multiple doses are needed throughout the day.
ramping up is a good plan. the batericidal (killing) effect of amoxy is very good.
amoxy (which is a penicillin derivative) is a beta-lactam antibiotic, and borrelia contains beta-lactam enzymes, thus the high dose is needed to cross the cellular threshold as well as the BBB and entrance to the CNS.
as far as testing just have a monthly CBC done by your dr to check liver levels, neutrophils, etc.
best of luck...
[This message has been edited by zipzip (edited 22 January 2005).]
It is true that toxicity of Amoxicillin is not high. Most of the time tolerability of digestive tract is the problem and that is why probenecid comes to use. It is also true that probenecid makes levels of Amoxicillin in the blood more equal over time.
At this time I have decided not to exercise this option.
quote:
Originally posted by Areneli:
Maybe I should correct you guys that Amoxicillin under normal circumstances doesn't cross BBB....... Therefore increasing its dose is most likely not going to help for neuroinfection.
this is only true for standard dosing of amoxy, higher levels have been shown to be effective for CNS penetration of spirochete illnesses (syphillis and borrelia).
rocephin, for example, is known for its good CNS & BBB penetration at 2-4gm per day infusion.
rocephin is a 3rd generation cephalasporin antibiotic, which is penicillin derived (10% penicillin).
[This message has been edited by zipzip (edited 22 January 2005).]
Bicillin, contrary to what it would seem, is a very low dose (serum level) penicillin, yet it seems to work very well for some. Common sense would say that the level is too low to do anything.
Maybe a compromised BBB works to our advantage in this instance?
(Just my musings, don't take them as a medical fact.)
Today I have been on Amoxicillin for almost 3 weeks and this hypersensitive symptom is noticeable better first time since September 2004.
This would suggest that some penetration of Amoxicillin through BBB indeed happened in my case. In spite of not having any signs of inflammation in my blood work during my sickness the brain barrier is somehow penetrable for this particular antibiotics.
Question: What antibiotics I should take after I am done with Amoxicillin that will be in 2-3 weeks?
Did you have any signs of inflammation in your blood work?
Appreciate your help
Sin I have been on oral antibiotics.
Now ramped up to current routine of --
5 days Ketek followed by ampicillin (amoxicillin?) 6 grams/day with claforan for 20 days. Then 5 days tinidazole.
Then off antibiotics for 10 days.
All the while on intraconazole 2x/week.
Hits inner and outer the B burgdorferi and varient forms. And my fungi.
It seems more helpful than any other oral antibiotic combinations I've tried.
Neil
quote:
Originally posted by Neil M Martin:
I was on IV Zithromax & Flagyl 2001-2003.Sin I have been on oral antibiotics.
Now ramped up to current routine of --
5 days Ketek followed by ampicillin (amoxicillin?) 6 grams/day with claforan for 20 days. Then 5 days tinidazole.Then off antibiotics for 10 days.
All the while on intraconazole 2x/week.
Hits inner and outer the B burgdorferi and varient forms. And my fungi.
It seems more helpful than any other oral antibiotic combinations I've tried.
Neil
Very interesting combination.
Thanks for sharing
Amoxicillin has definitely penetrated BBB.
I'm also on Amox. Taking 17.5g/day in combination with 200mg/day Minocycline and Plaquenil.
The particular Amox I'm taking is Amoxicillin from Ranbaxy. It's generic for Amoxil which my LLMD says is formulated to create a longer half-life time in the blood so you don't need to take it with Probenecid.
I've been on Amox for 3 weeks now and have seen only minor side effects of it.
One side effect is that I smell of Amox.
No diarheea or yeast problems, yet. I'm taking Acidopholus (8 tablets/day).
In terms of herxing like reactions I have not seen any yet.
Though, generally I feel better. But that could be the Mino too.
Michael
Glad to hear it is working for you.
quote:
One side effect is that I smell of Amox.
....Since amox is one of the penicillins you probably smell of mildew....but it just may get you well.
There's MOLD in them thar pills.....
Just wanted to let you know that I started taking Probenecid in order to increase the amount of time the bicillin stays in my system..I get weekly injections..I just wanted to let you know that I haven't had the slightest problem tolerating the medication..you may want to give it a shot...
peace cathy
quote:
Originally posted by charlie:
....Since amox is one of the penicillins you probably smell of mildew....but it just may get you well.There's MOLD in them thar pills.....
To be specific about it, the smell is identical to the smell in the urine...you know, when you go to the bathroom hours after popping Amox and pee most of it out.
I thought it was Amox. Not sure how Amox smells though...
But I know this. It sure smells of something 
Michael
Augmentin = Amoxicillin + Clavulanic acid.
Clavulanic acid is, I think, a beta-lactamase inhibitor,the latter being an enzyme used by bacteria to destroy penicillins. Part of its molecular structure mimics/is the same as that part of the structure of penicillins, and, perhaps the cephalasporins(pen. derivs.), to which
the bacterial beta-lactamase binds.
So, the idea is that the clavulanic acid serves to tie up the supply of this enzyme, thereby leaving the amoxicillin intact, and thusly functionally available to kill the bacteria
It would seem to me that, by the clavulanic acid tying-up the enzyme that would render the amoxicillin ineffectual, one could thereby increase the levels of amoxicillin.
Doing so, would mean a lower dose of straight amoxicillin to achieve the desired result.
Since lyme affects the kidney, and probencid is bad for the kidney, then augmentin would be the most efficiously way to go,gifen renal involvement.
Then again there is a limit to the amount of clavulanic acid that can be taken, and so provenicid is used to get and maintain high levels.
Augmentin can be a tough ABX to stay on--can really irritate the bowel tract( sorry, not so subtle)to the point that you will be setting up lite housekeeping in the bathroom.
Cef-sporins and penicillin are Beta-lactam class ABX.
Augmentin would indeed help with Beta Lactamase activity--if you could handle the ABX load
Link explains all:
www.ratsteachmicro.com/Antibiotics/HCOE_CAI_Review_Notes_Antibiotics.htm
Take it from someone who has been on cef-sporin and augmentin at the same time---nothing is worse than toughing it out--seeing improvement---and then having to stop the treatment due to protocal difficulties---and then losing all the ground that you gained once off the ABX
It was one of my lowest periods(mentally) with lyme
For the rest of you:
So far I have thought that it is either high dose of Amoxicillin or lower dose of Amoxicillin (like 3 g/day) plus probenecid. Perhaps I have been wrong.
Also, has anybody combined probenecid with clavulanate? For me it is also a 'no, no' because of risk of toxicity.
I have gone for 8 g/day of Amoxicillin and again observe a flare up 3 days later.
It seems that there is a lot of logic in going really high with Amoxicillin. Each time I ramp up the antibiotic (so far) I have at least a small surge of toxin release in my body 70-80 hours later.
Questran is very helpful as its usage really well resets my symptoms shortly after any flare up.
No, I have not used probenecid with amoxy..just with the bicillin injections..but I really think the probenecid is giving the injections an "extra" boost..I have made some incredible progress with this combination...I am looking at the printout my pharmacist gave me about probenecid..
here is some of the info:
Uses: is used to prevent gout and gouty arthritis.
how to use: this is best taken with food or milk to prevent an upset stomach..it is advisable to drink a full glass of water with each dose ...to prevent the formation of kidney stones..
side effects: nausea, loss of appetitie, drowsiness, vomiting..
I take 500 mg 2x a day.. The only side effect that I had was the drowsiness, but that only lasted the first 2 days...other than that I have found it very easy to tolerate!!
I hope this helps...
something to consider if it can make the abx work "harder."
Cathy
You guys on very high doses of Amoxicillin are very correct.
Have to go to see my doc to get more prescription on Amo since my supply is almost consumed.
[This message has been edited by Areneli (edited 27 January 2005).]
His concern is purely financial. With diagnosis of Lyme I may draw the Canadian system too much and he may get burnt. If treatment of Lyme would be cheap he wouldn't mind treating me.
Seems that no i.v. treatment for me in this province.
I guess he was very frank in his statement. I think he has already been burnt in the meantime (perhaps he inquired with the health board about me) because during previous meeting he was quite willing to help.
Anyway, I am doing extremely well on Amoxicillin - I am 50% better regarding my skin hypersensitivity after 4 weeks of treatment. Today I have increased the dose to 12 g/day and see if more herxing going to happened.
Guys, has anybody combined Tinidazol with Amoxicillin or remember somebody from this forum doing it with good results?
Today I feel very well: strong and in a good mood. If not for some problems with hipersenstive skin I would say I had fully recovered. I feel well intelectually.
Today I have returned to my routine exercises and weight lifting. I have to say that I did unexpectedly well while doing it.
I think I should report a success story on this forum.
How long have you had lyme?
15 years? just treating?
Or just a few years?
thanks,
Trish
I had symptoms for the last 3-4 years and made clinical diagnosis ~2 months ago.