LymeNet Flash: Does sun kill Lyme or make it worse ??

This is topic Does sun kill Lyme or make it worse ?? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by tom63376 (Member # 7220) on :

I've read some conflicting ideas..

Many agree that Sun makes their symptoms
worse. Please no Marshal Protocol
suggestions. I've read enough about it
to not agree with it.

My sole objective of this post is to raise
the question:

Does sun actually kill off Lyme and
Co-infections and this is why symptoms
appear to be made worse by the Sun.

This is an important statement since it
states that either the Sun helps in the
healing process OR it makes things worse.

If the sun causes mini-herx's then we
would all benefit from suffering through
some sun exposure.. Else we should avoid
the sun all together until we get better.

This is what I wish to discuss... Any
medical experts here who can comment??

Thanks!

Posted by frenchbraid (Member # 4225) on :

Usually, if being in the sun causes "symptoms", it is because of vitamin D overdose. People need to be aware of consuming foods with vitamin D during the "sunny" months when they will be out in the sunny weather.

The sun provides Vitamin D naturally. So, by consuming foods that contain Vitamin D, you would be overdosing. The symptoms would be fatique, aches, etc.

frenchbraid

------------------
Stay positive. Smile. People care.

[This message has been edited by frenchbraid (edited 12 May 2005).]

Posted by sapphire (Member # 4599) on :

Ive noticed odd sensations on my skin from the sun, but at the time was also on doxycycline and when off the doxy the symptoms went away
although ive heard that heat kills lyme so hot baths and saunas are in for me even if it flares me up

Posted by Lyddie on :

The skin causes odd sensations and sickness for me, and at first I thought it was doxy or tetracycline. But it also happened on amoxicillin, then Ceftin. I had a skin biopsy which showed autoiimmune activity (similar to lupus or dermatomyositis, both of which involve similar reactions to the sun).

My antinuclear antibodies (ANA) are also positive and fairly elevated.

So, the sun reactions from me come from autoimune illness.

I also test very positive for Lyme, so I am still going on the assumption that this autoimmune stuff, with sun and otherwise, is part of my Lyme.

I am posting this just in case anyone else who is suffering with sun problems might want to get their ANA tested or get a biopsy (esp. if there is also a sun rash).

Posted by TheCrimeOfLyme (Member # 4019) on :

Lyme dies under heat.

The sun is heat.

The sun raises internal body heat.

So yes, it can cause one to herx.

I dont think it has anything to do with Vitamin D for *everyone*. I had my vitamin D tested- normal, and I STILL react to the sun ( most days) Other days, not really.

Posted by Lyddie on :

Crime, what exactly happens to you w/sun?

Posted by tom63376 (Member # 7220) on :

Does anyone go out and get regular sun
exposure along with thier abx in their
treatment for Lyme/Co-infections?

Posted by TheCrimeOfLyme (Member # 4019) on :

Lyddie:

I get dizzy, bad migraines, sweaty, can't think straight, feel drunk inside my head, and very very tired. Feesl like a huge relapse hits all at once.

I also have orthostatic hypotension ( as I suspect some others here do) and that obviously is a no no with the heat.

Tom:yes. The first summer I did abx, I would take them and go lay out. no lie. I did really well that summer.

Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :

Many natueopathic sorts --
old school Docs (the ones practicing aims toward total health, the old medocal Docs pre-antibiotics, anything before 1950, when medicine became mainly drug oriented/symptom treatment)..
wrote of and practiced healing with nature.

Or..using nature's powers in healing.

Many of them treated serious conditions with bowel cleansing anf fasting (I'm not saying that's all you'd have to do to get rid of TBD's )

But this old school of thought sometimes included sun exposure (not peak hour, and not over exposure)..
but 'bathing' in it everyday in the morning.
(Some said in the nude ..so it is absorbed through the largest organ (the skin)
completley. This was considered very healing.

There are many benefits to the body from the sun.
(now we have the ozone layer to worry about, but maybe then very early morning and not too long would still be of benefit)

I wonder if it can make you Herx, probably..
like many feel Herxy after those long hot Epsom baths?

[This message has been edited by Mo (edited 13 May 2005).]

Posted by Lyddie on :

Crime, I'm confused. You said that first summer "sunbathing" made you better, but you also said the sun makes you sick. Did something change? Or are both true? Do you feel sick from the sun but then experience an improvement overall in your health?

Sorry for all the questions! I feel like a vampire and would love to sit in the sun...

Posted by DeniseS (Member # 7276) on :

I recently read an abstract that suggests that heat can make BB go into cyst form.

Induction of cystic forms by different stress conditions in Borrelia burgdorferi.
Murgia R, Cinco M.
Spirochete Laboratory, Dipartimento di Scienze Biomediche, Universita' degli Studi di Trieste, Via Fleming 22, 34127 Trieste ,Italy .
Cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi might represent a low metabolic activity state or phase of B. burgdorferi cells that allows the spirochete to survive in a hostile environment until conditions are favourable to multiply again. In this study we evaluated the rate of cyst formation induced by oxidative stress, pH variations, and heating, reconversion of cysts to vegetative forms, and some aspects of their metabolic activity. We observed cyst formation in the presence of extreme pH values, and at high temperature, but the best production of cystic forms was observed in the presence of H2O2 .When transferred to BSK II medium, the cystic forms reconverted to spirochetes in relation to their age and type of induction treatment. Furthermore, we demonstrated a low metabolic activity of cystic forms by measuring amino acid incorporation. Overall, these data suggest that the phenomenon of conversion to cysts by B. burgdorferi provides a limited survival potential. This short-term survival, however, gives borreliae an additional chance to overcome unfavourable environmental conditions.
PMID : 14961976 [PubMed - in process]

Does anyone have easy access to the article? I'm curious what temperatures they used in the study as I'm considering purchasing an IR sauna.

Posted by tom63376 (Member # 7220) on :

OH NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am reading this right?????

From above:
--------------------------------------------
"heat can make BB go into cyst form" ....

"Cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi might represent a low metabolic activity state or phase of B. burgdorferi cells that allows the spirochete to survive in a hostile environment until conditions are favourable to multiply again"
--------------------------------------------

Does this mean that using the Sauna is
delaying my recovery since the
lyme would be going into a cyst and thus
not be killed off by the ABX during
the normal multiply cycle.. ???

I am now concerned my sanua use for
detox is doing more harm than good..

Posted by bg2711 (Member # 1865) on :

I have been wondering the same thing about the sun for years. I am so much worse in the sun then the winter months. The sun makes me feel like death. I too feel like a vampire. Barb

Posted by mycoplasma1 (Member # 6377) on :

I'm sorry, I hate to say this but In I think most of us have hypervitaminosis D because of our bacterial load and the sun makes us worse as it makes all people with auto-immune illnesses.

I don't want to do the Marshall Protocol, but I have to admit he may be right.

Chris

Posted by HEATHERKISS (Member # 6789) on :

I used to have bad reactions in the sun. This year is ok I've only been on antibiotics for 4 months.

I used to get like a heat stroke and my face would stay red for over an hour after I got out of the sun. It didn't matter how much water I drank proir to sun exposure either.

Very wierd. Also I don't enjoy hot showers. I like warm. I can't even get into a hot tub. I feel like my skin is burning.

I don't even like hot beverages. I eat soup ony warm.

Getting wierder?

Heather

Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :

I am no doctor, but it seems like avoiding the sun is not a natural thing. I do not advocate tanning or staying out too long, but I believe in the idea of "all things in moderation.".

I know personally that I cannot work in a building without windows or I would get extremely depressed. Working outside for short periods of time in the garden or to mow the lawn elevates my mood, and I think that is part of the battle against lyme.

Because we are all desperate to get better, we overanalyze everything to see if it helps or hurts and there is no one single solution for our problem.

If you feel good in the sun, great. If not, then stay out of it. For me, staying out of the sun would be giving up one more thing for this disease and I am not willing to do that.

Just my opinion and not scientifically based.

Cheers. Hiker.

[This message has been edited by hiker53 (edited 15 May 2005).]