My Neuro today precribed me Detrol. I am constantly waking at night to go to the bathroom. He said it was a hypthalmus/sodium issue due to the Lyme. I have been voiding from about 20-32 oz. every night.
Never really thought of the connection. Guess it is another sx that crept up on me.

Anyone else have this issue? Does it resolve with treatment?

Thanks and Peace

 

Now I'm down to 1 time and hubby to 5 times. For this problem we found that Zithromax helped the best, but we didn't stay on it long enough to get completely rid of it.

Gabrielle
 

If it's okay, then bladder spasms are caused by a calcium influx into the cells (calcium causes muscle contractions, magnesium relaxes) = urgency.

The ususal treatment is pyridium which works, but IMO, doesn't address the underlying CAUSE.

They use one mineral to sub for another.

Re: pyridium, here's how it works:

Mechanism of action/Effect:

Exerts a ***topical analgesic or local anesthetic action on the urinary tract mucosa. The exact mechanism of action is unknown. {01}

Biotransformation:

Probably hepatic; also in other tissues. {04} One of the metabolites is ***acetaminophen. {05}
http://www.drugs.com/MMX/Phenazopyridine_Hydrochloride.html

1. Bilirubin. This test is based on the coupling of bilirubin with diazotized dichloroaniline in a strongly acid medium. After 30 seconds, the color ranges through various shades of tan. Only conjugated bilirubin enters the urine in significant amounts. Fresh urine should be used because hydrolysis converts conjugated bilirubin to the unconjugated form upon standing. The unconjugated bilirubin reacts poorly with the test reagents.

The test is somewhat less sensitive than the Ictotest but this causes few false-negatives. A positive result indicates elevated direct-acting serum bilirubin, seen in liver disease. Large doses of chlorpromazine may cause false-positive results, as with many drug metabolites which have a ***red color at low pHs (Pyridium and Serenium).
http://www.dcss.cs.amedd.army.mil/field/DepmedsLabSOP/URINALSI/urinalys_toc.htm

So your urine takes on a different color and this breaks down to acetaminophen.

Anti-inflammatory, but so is Mg.

 

Lyme disease is inflammatory and inflammatory cytokines can cause obstructive sleep apnea. For example, in this study, patients were administered a drug that interdicts TNF-alpha:
http://tinyurl.com/ctn93

They found that "the number of apneas/hypopneas per hour was reduced significantly by the drug compared with placebo"

That is, inflammatory cytokines can cause apnea.

And apnea can cause nocturia:
http://tinyurl.com/6zcwl

The nocturia tends to resolve with successful CPAP therapy (thereby demonstrating the causal relationship between apnea and nocturia).

Apnea does not cause bladder problems. It causes the kidneys to dump a lot of urine into the bladder. You indicate urinating large volumes, which is consistent with that. You also imply that this happens at night, not during the day. Again, this would be consistent with apnea.

The relationship between apnea and inflammation can be more complex than this (apnea can be caused by inflammation, but is also pro-inflammatory; plus, the metabolic syndrome can be wrapped up in the mix).

If you don't snore you can probably rule out obstructive sleep apnea. Otherwise you might want to look into it.

Other clues that might indicate apnea are night sweats:

http://tinyurl.com/6sp8m

and night-time reflux:

http://tinyurl.com/4pfdw

Although GERD may aggravate apnea, the ability of CPAP to relieve GERD in these patients demonstrates that apnea can aggravate GERD.

If Lyme-mediated inflammation is causing the apnea, then presumably one option is simply to treat the Lyme and resolve the apnea that way.

I don't have a diagnosis of Lyme. I can't say for sure what my problem is. I do know that CPAP resolved my night-time reflux, night sweats and nocturia. Unfortunately, it didn't resolve the symptoms I hoped it would (fatigue/brainfog/etc.).

Matt
 

Now, soon after starting Babesia treatment, he stopped snoring, can breath easily and his sleep apnoe is gone. His high blood pressure came back to nearly normal.

His nocturia, unfortunately, is still there. But maybe this will also still resolve. He's only in his 3rd week of Babesia treatment.

Gabrielle
 

The brain puts out extra amts. of ADH (also called vasopressin) at night. This causes the kidneys to reabsorb water, so they produce small volumes of concentrated urine.

As we age, the circadian rhythms that control *SALT and water excretion (among other things) begin to change. Many older people revert to the juvenile pattern of steady urine production around the clock.

Children on Ritalin for ADHD also have improvement in bed wetting problems.

Do you see the connections between the minerals...Ca, Mg, Na?

Mg is needed to make all proteins...and hormones are proteins. It is a muscle relaxant. Mg prevents calcium influx. Looks like if Mg is low, sodium channels open up too (hence Na channel blockers to stop seizures).

Re: babesia and sodium...look closely at what vets gave dogs suffering from neuro babesia in trh 1970s:

J S Afr Vet Assoc. 1976 Mar: 47 (1): 29-33
The diagnosis and treatment of acid-base deranged dogs infected with Babesia canis.
Malherbe WD, Immelman A, Haupt WH, Walzl HJ.

A study was made of the acid-base status of Babesia canis infected dogs judged unlikely to recover after specific babesicidal drug therapy despite the use of blood transfusion and other conventional supportive measures.

Such cases were invariabley acidotic and responded well and often dramatically to supportive intravenous sodium bicarbonate administration.

Elevated blood urea nitrogen, also responded gratifyingly to this procedure. The rationale is discussed in some detail.
http://www.sodbrennen-welt.de/science/1976/1976_4617.htm

Yep...this disease causes an electrolyte imbalance for sure.

P.S. Blocking TNF alpha is a very, very bad idea! Look at the BENEFITS of this pro-inflammatory cytokine in my Updated Nutshell post...they are listed, they are many.

Additional info. on Detrol

Effects on sleep of anticholinergics used for overactive bladder treatment in healthy volunteers aged > or = 50 years.

Diefenbach K, Arold G, Wollny A, Schwantes U, Haselmann J, Roots I.Institut fur Klinische Pharmakologie, Charite- Universitatsmedizin Berlin, Campus Charite Mitte, Schumannstr. 20/21, D-10098 Berlin, Germany. ivar.roots charite.de

CONCLUSION: Individuals aged > or = 50 years had a more distinct impairment of REM sleep after oxybutynin and tolterodine than had young people, but the reduction in REM sleep did not reach a pathological degree in this single-dose study.

There was no apparent impairment of concentration or cognitive function, but impairment of cognitive function and neuropsychological side-effects cannot be excluded, especially when elderly patients with impaired REM sleep from various psychiatric diseases (e.g. depression) and/or sleep disturbances are given oxybutynin or tolterodine in long-term treatment.

Online source: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15679791&dopt=Abstract tolterodine Detrol
http://dreampharm.com/drugs-online/detrol/detrol.10.html

We make proteins during REM sleep.

It is also used as an anti- narcolepsy Rx.

[This message has been edited by Marnie (edited 02 July 2005).]
 

However I am now more confused than ever. Should I try the Detrol or not?

I do have Brain inflamtion. My protiens are at 87 should be 15-40.

I have brain lesions consistant with Lyme.

Would it make more sense to try mg first? I have been voiding like this for a long time (decades) I am 40. It does happen during the day, but he Neuro felt lets deal with it disturbing my sleep.

Maybe I will e-mail my Lyme doc for his input.

Is this common with chronic Lyme. Or is nothing common with chronic Lyme?

Thanks again.

Peace
 

Do you have any pain? I was dxd with Interstitial Cystitis....twas caused by Lyme. I'm MUCH better in that regard thanks to Lyme treatment.

you might check into IC symptoms too
www.ichelp.org

------------------
Do not take anything I say as medical advice. I am not a doctor, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express!
oops!
Lymetutu
 

These nights I'm up every 2 hours to urinate. If I go 3 or 3 1/2 hours that's a lot. Has no relation on how much I drink.

I've told my doctor, but he didn't go into any details on why he thought it was happening.

Just my story.
 

ICEY

 

Peace

He had to use pyridium until his 2nd dose of IV Mg a few weeks later. (1st dose given for tachycardia...rate over 120. ER visit #2)

No more urinary problems.

He is currently supp. with a lot of things to bring his minerals slowly back up.

In case you're wondering 2 grams of Mg each time, with B vits (similar to Meyer's cocktail). No diarrhea!
 

Detrol has made an amazing difference. Less urgency and better sleep. Also has helped lower over anxiety.

I also at one point did the Meyer's cocktail IV. I did terrible. Actually made my symptoms and anxiety triple. It was the Meyer's that got me Dx'd.

will stay away from those forever. Thank you!!!

Peace