the Andrographitis is working..I can feel it hitting ares never touched by other meds...
I am definately herxing now from it!
Anyone else using Andrographitis at the moment? Any input?
daniella Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Okay...I just spent an hour researching it...interesting.
Do you have access to anyone who would know the chemical formula for this herb? I would REALLY like to know.
Is anything else in the pill you are taking?
Bio Essence brand or other?
When someone reports here that something helps, I am interested to try to figure out WHY or HOW it is possible. Just curious!
Posted by cbb (Member # 788) on :
Daniella, Glad to hear it's working.
What are you targeting? Lyme disease, co-infections, or both?
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Stephen Buhner recommends it for lyme (Healing Lyme book) and Seven Forests Herbs has it in their formula as well.
Posted by lymeloco (Member # 7192) on :
I just order some cheaper than samento ,,,, I will post update later
Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
MArnie..it's bio Essence..yes cheap too..
cbb I am tageting lyme, babs,
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
Thanks so much for posting this herb>Glad to hear it is working .Will try sometime in the near future. Thanks for sharing bset wishes dana
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
From the link provided...a quick look (later will study more):
"Antipyretic and Antiinflammatory Effects Andrographolide, neoandrographolide, deoxyandrographolide and 1 4-deoxy- 11,12-didehydroandrographolide
***reduced the fever in rabbits caused by typhoid and paratyphoid vaccine, and in rats
***caused by 2,4-dinitrophenol"
That's where I stopped dead in my tracks.
Reduced fever caused by 2,4-dinitrophenol...an extremely stong acid...in a class with cyanide...this is DNP kids. Ya know...ICHT...they GAVE that powerful acid.
This herb looks to work the OPPOSITE...reducing acids, toxins, neg. charges.
So far...looking good.
Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
Marnie ...lol can you please translate any or all of that into simple talk for me...lol
I have become medically educated having lyme but you are way over my head..
thanks daniella Posted by livinlyme (Member # 3773) on :
okay which did you get the pills or tablets?
Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
livinlyme..I got the pills the one that was $6.12..that was the one the dr. said to try.
I am herxing big time today...it is definately working..
daniella Posted by Bill ATL (Member # 7817) on :
All... How often and for how long do you take these? Did the doctor say they interacted negatively with other ABX ??
I'm interested in trying, but am a little hesitant about mixing it in with my current abx
Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marnie: From the link provided...a quick look (later will study more):
"Antipyretic and Antiinflammatory Effects Andrographolide, neoandrographolide, deoxyandrographolide and 1 4-deoxy- 11,12-didehydroandrographolide
***reduced the fever in rabbits caused by typhoid and paratyphoid vaccine, and in rats
***caused by 2,4-dinitrophenol"
That's where I stopped dead in my tracks.
Reduced fever caused by 2,4-dinitrophenol...an extremely stong acid...in a class with cyanide...this is DNP kids. Ya know...ICHT...they GAVE that powerful acid.
This herb looks to work the OPPOSITE...reducing acids, toxins, neg. charges.
So far...looking good.
Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :
Andrographis is the herb of Andrographis paniculata, a flowering plant in the Acanthaceae family. The perennial grows wild in thickets throughout south Asia, although it also may be cultivated. In summer and autumn, clusters of small white flowers appear; it is harvested when the flowers begin to bloom. It is traditionally valued as an herbal remedy in China, where it grows in the Guangdong, Guangxi, Fujian, Yunnan, Sichuan, Jiangsu, and Jianxi provinces.
In Mandarin, andrographis is called chuan xin lian, Yi jian xi and Lan he lian, which translate directly as "thread-the-heart lotus." The Cantonese term is chyun sam ling, and the Japanese call it senshinren. English common names include green chiretta, heart-thread lotus leaf, and kariyat. Its pharmaceutical names, used to distinguish it as a medicine, are Herba Andrographitis Paniculatae or alternately Folium Andrographis.
General use
Practitioners of Chinese medicine believe that andrographis affects the large intestine, lung, stomach, bladder, and liver meridians, or energy pathways in the body. It is thought to dispel heat (such as that associated with fever or infection) and is used primarily as a broad-spectrum antibiotic and immunostimulant for a variety of bacterial, viral, and parasitic conditions, including influenza, intestinal infections, hepatitis, pneumonia, and infected wounds. Andrographis's medicinal properties are considered very bitter, astringent, cold, dry, and stimulating.
Andrographis is considered most effective for conditions associated with fever, inflammation, and the formation of pus. It clears heat and relieves "fire toxicity" manifest as sores and carbuncles on the skin. It is also applied topically for snakebite and eczema. Under the supervision of a qualified practitioner, it is used as a uterine stimulant and abortive, to bring on miscarriage or treat prolonged pregnancy or retained placenta.
Andrographis can also be used as an inexpensive substitute for another Chinese herb, coptis (huang lian).
Research on andrographis has generally been conducted in China and has focused on pharmacological investigation. Studies indicate that andrographis cultivated in the plains of Shanghai has significant immune stimulating and anti-infective qualities. In vitro, it inhibits the growth of Diplococcus pneumoniae and other bacteria and delays the deterioration of embryonic renal cells caused by a virus.
Major chemical ingredients include andrographan, andrographolide, neoandrographolide, paniculide A, 14-deoxy-11-oxyandrographolide, and beta-sitosterol.
Preparations
Andrographis is not generally available in American health food stores, but it can be found at most Chinese pharmacies and Asian groceries.
The standard dose ranges from 10-15 grams as a decoction (strong tea) or 2-5 milliliters as a tincture. Powder doses range from 0.6 to 1.2 grams. Because the herb is extremely bitter, it's recommended that powder be taken in capsule form.
Practitioners of Chinese medicine commonly combine andrographis in patent formulas along with other Chinese herbs. The following are the major herbs with which it is combined and the symptoms for which the combinations are prescribed.
Pericarpium Citri Reticulatae (Citrus reticulata, Chen pi) for cough associated with Lung heat.
Herba et Radix Houttuyniae Cordatae ( Houttuynia cordata, yu xing cao) and Semen Benincasae Hispidae (Benincasa hispida, dong gua ren cao) for Lung abcess.
Flos Lonicerae Japonicae (Lonicera japonica, jin yin hua) and Radix Platycodonis Grandiflori (Platycodon grandiflorum, jie geng) for early stages of a disease with fever and sore throat.
Herba Portulacae Oleraceae (Portulacca oleracea, ma chi xian ) for dysentery.
Radix et folium Polygoni Cuspidati (Polygonum cuspidatum, hu zhang) and Rhizoma Imperatae
Cylindricae(Imperata cylindrical var. major, bai mao gen) for hot, painful urinary disfunction.
Precautions
According to tradition, andrographis is never used in cases of deficient, cold intestinal conditions. When used long-term or in large doses, this bitter and cold herb may damage stomach qi, causing gastric distress and loss of appetite.
Andrographis is also capable of producing a miscarriage, and thus should be avoided by pregnant women unless otherwise directed by a knowledgeable practitioner.
Side effects
Gastric distress and loss of appetite have been noted when the herb is taken in large doses.
Interactions
No interactions with pharmaceutical drugs have been noted.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
The bottles clearly say...not for longterm use!!!
And yes...definitely can cause miscarriage.
The "unfamiliar" herbs concern/worry me...many of them. Much more potent than we realize...and this one looks to be very potent if it can counteract DNP.
I was hoping (when enlarging the diagram) to find 16 hydrogens, not 17. The eyesight is going...
Tree...what's with the "do unto others"? Are you pro or con this herb? Why? I value your judgement.
Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
Marnie..I think that ia his signature.. what does it mean in laymans terma Marnie? ANd yes herbs are powerful and I am by no means telling anyone to try this yet.
I was just excited that something was working!
daniella
Posted by chroniccosmic (Member # 7789) on :
Daniella, Glad you are getting relief! Are you able to take this herb with antibiotics? Are you currently on antibiotics?
I have taken Chinese herbs many times with success and am very interested in your progress.
Posted by quic (Member # 5262) on :
daniella, Also, which dr. suggested you take it? - Mike
Posted by livinlyme (Member # 3773) on :
WARNING**** Also, because andrographis may stimulate gallbladder contraction, it should not be used by individuals with gallbladder disease except under physician supervision.
http://www.ahealthyadvantage.com/topic/topic100587730 my concern here is not that this herb may cause the distress but rather that the distress may already be present and when taking this herb exacerbates the end result which maybe failure of the GB..
Posted by livinlyme (Member # 3773) on :
quic...it was recomended by the PA at Dr. H's office. She knows someone with Lyme that had great results after 1 month on...
chronic cosmic....yes, I am also on Abx., going on 5 years(much!(edited, sorry for the mistake!) improvement off and on)..
andrographitis is having no interactions.with my abx...I am on rocephin, zithromax, tinidazole
still working..kicking those keet buts! daniella
[ 28. October 2005, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: daniella ]
Posted by livinlyme (Member # 3773) on :
Daniella, I really think you have stumbled onto something here...
I am going to cycle it like 2 weeks on then 4 weeks off then 2 weeks on then 4 weeks off.. and see what happens since it is suggested not to stay on it long term..
this way it will give them keets a kick in the teeth and then allow them to come back out and play (if they hide from it) and then kick them some more! and then some more, and then some more.. I think it makes more sense than to hammer them all at once cause if they hide.... I dont want them to hide the whole while I'm on it and then they all come back out to play when i stop takeing it... I want to keep surprising them until there are none to surprise anymore!!
Some LLMD's use this in treatment too... there is a professional term for it..
cant think.. but anyway since it can cause adverse affects on the body from long term use i think to cycle it may be moer effective
Posted by chroniccosmic (Member # 7789) on :
Just ordered it. I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks soooo much for the tip. I learn so much here everyday! Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
I had to lighten up on my dose. Herxing really hard now!...yeah
take care, daniella Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
for you Marnie..this might help.. it's pretty informative
tata, daniella Posted by JRWagner (Member # 3229) on :
Daniella,
No offense, but I see you are taking three ABX, including IV Rocephin. There is absolutely no way for you to say with any scientific certainty that it is not the ABX kicking in, rather than this new herb. You have nothing to compare with...ie.,too many variables. It may just be coincidental that you feel something is happening when you started taking the herb. In reality the ABX could be the reason for your "Herx" reaction.
I would tread lightly with untested, upproven herbs. I too saw Dr. H when he was prescribing, and profiting from Zhang's Herbs and they did absolutely nothing.
The problem here is that these herbs are not tested under double blind conditions, nor have they been reviewed by any credible scientific body in the US. I know of absolutely no one who has been helped (other than by placebo effect) by Chinese Herbs.
People on ABX often need to be on them for considerable time before they feel any improvement. Stay on them as long as you can!
Marnie...please email me...watch out for WILMA!!!!!
Treepatrol...man, you rock bro'!
How are YOU feeling?
Peace, love and wellness, JRW
Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
JR, Thanks for your 2 cents...but...I do know it is the herb that is causing the herx..
..Also, others who are experiencing the same have private messaged me..
It is working whether you want to believe it is or not..and it is not Dr. Zhangs herbs and Dr. H is not pushing this...Please don't rain on my parade and make this a negative thing...
thanks..
I hope you get well also..
daniella Posted by livinlyme (Member # 3773) on :
OKay got mine today one dose and WHOP! my back is burning like it is on fire.. I can hardly type right now it has become so tense.. so I guess the playground is my back. which explains my back pain lately.. WELL looks like they are meeting with their match now!
so far stomach is okay thought that would be acting up.. my lungs were clearer like the first 2 hours after taking it,, but now they are filling again.... I willpsot every other day or so to keep a journal and let people know if it is worth the attempt... Posted by welcome (Member # 7953) on :
quote:Originally posted by livinlyme: OKay got mine today one dose and WHOP! my back is burning like it is on fire.. I can hardly type right now it has become so tense.. so I guess the playground is my back. which explains my back pain lately.. WELL looks like they are meeting with their match now!
so far stomach is okay thought that would be acting up.. my lungs were clearer like the first 2 hours after taking it,, but now they are filling again.... I willpsot every other day or so to keep a journal and let people know if it is worth the attempt...
"Many compounds do not penetrate the blood-brain barrier. However, andrographolide does so and concentrates in the brain and particularly in the spinal cord. (7). Several studies have shown that AP products have a sedative effect. In mice given barbital as anesthesia, the animals became sedated more quickly and the anesthesia lasted longer. Also, it was possible to give less of the anesthesia if it was given along with AP. (19). The studies indicate that AP products may act at the barbital receptors in the brain."
I'd recommend serious uptake of fluids and some detox protocols. If this stuff is hitting reservoirs of BB along the spine etc., you're in for some serious nuerotoxin inflammation and pain.
[ 21. October 2005, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: welcome ]
Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
I've had to back WAY off on this herb..Herxing is quite severe. I have company coming Sunday so I need to be upright until and for that day.
I will continue sunday night with a lower dose, it really is hitting TONS of stuff..but yes detox all you can if you are trying this.
It seems to be hitting everything viruses, babesia, lyme ugh. Be careful everyone..
take care of your selves, daniella Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Folks, for those taking it, read Buhner's book that recommends it. I heard a Connecticut naturopath was going to try his recommendations, maybe I'll try to find out if she has started.
JR--I hope you're doing okay----??? I have a friend in the southwest, an acupuncturist who had the big 3 (bb, babs, erlichia) for about 8 years. COnsidering all that she's done pretty well, but in any case, a Vermont friend and husband had lyme. Probably JUST lyme, but the Vermont friend had such bad arthritis from it she couldn't hold a cup etc. My friend prescribed her Zhang's herbs and she took them high dose, and so did hubby, and after 2 years is completely symptom free. I'm not enthralled with Zhang's herbs, but some DO well on herbs. And Stephen Buhner is a far cry from Zhang. Zhang overcharged obscenely for his stuff. Buhner is not packaging these herbs--he's just recommending a protocol, and he's a highly respected herbalist who "cured" (ie remission) of hep C with herbs.
Posted by Bill ATL (Member # 7817) on :
OK I just ordered mine...and what finally caused me to was the post that "welcome" entered.
I have been on several combos, and some have been more effective than others. I feel, however, that I've sort of reached a plateau with the improvement of the symptoms.
Most of my symptoms are Neuro, centered in the back-right quadrant of the brain, in my neck, and down to the Thoracic region of my spine. I have occasional muscular/tendon pain, but the spine/brain has most of the issues.
I'll be crossing my fingers that this stuff works as this Topic trail indicates. I will let you know
B
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Hummm...causes gallbladder contraction. The gall bladder stores bile and dumps it when we eat fats to aid in breaking them down. It also chelates heavy metals...to prevent them from being recirculated. Bile ACIDS....
The gall bladder should dump...to avoid building up "sludge".
JR...
Wilma...am watching...and preparing, but we do live inland in a non-evacuation zone. Our house was built to hurricane standards 5 years ago and we have hurricane film on our windows. And now...another depression forming...will be "Alpha". IMO...should skip Alpha and call it Beta...negative, not positive!
Posted by livinlyme (Member # 3773) on :
I believe I am safe in using this since my GB was removed 5 years ago... I would suggest other who still have their GB get a through check first..
Now I'm starting to focus on this Pineal gland cysts most people have them and they are most often benign.. I have suffered seizures from age 13-21 and they have questioned nocturnal seizures more recently about 3 years ago.. I have also had headaches chronic never ending for most all of my life since I was a teen I am now 44...
but what concerns me is that my father had a "FATTY WHEN" on his back and the doctors told him nothing would come of it,, it would just remain there and do nothing.. after being treated for Lyme for 3 months the thing POPPED! it discharged about a 1/2 cup of puss like substance in the form of spaghetti out of this what seemed to be a lump in his back the size of a golf ball...
I know this was graphic but what happened to him after that is even worse and I will not go into that part unless I feel there is some form of relevance.. I am just finding that so many people have so many similar complaints and if there is a strong connection why do they say that the symptoms arent related to the issue in question.. and they have no known cause known.. I hate that phrase the most "Cause Unknown" or "unknown origin"! Do more research on what people tell you then .. DUH!~
Posted by livinlyme (Member # 3773) on :
OKay on the third day I have noticed my lungs clear up for a couple hours after taking it ... then they fill again .. but nice to know it does help my breathing for a short while and hopefully it will improve with time..
I am getting those old "growing pains" I used to get when I was a kid ( when i think my body still tried to fight) I think this is herxing effects.. my back is not hurting as much only in the area where I had my surgery... and the burning is most intense after taking the tablets.. but I find I get a pulling feeling in the back around the surgery area and pressue which feels like the titanium cage is pushing out my skin not sure if I haven't dislodged it but I wont worry unless I get more severe symptoms.. so far I can't complain
Posted by welcome (Member # 7953) on :
What is the Mg dosage per capsule for the Bio-Essence brand? Can't seem to find it.
Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
my pa gave me a sheet from the patient who was trying it and it was 6-7 tablets 5-6 times aday.
I was doing that but Whoah! mega herx..so I am down to 3-4 a day 3x a day until I can slowly work my way up..
I don't see a dose on the bottle either, maybe if you called them they could tell you..
daniella Posted by chroniccosmic (Member # 7789) on :
I got the herbs in the mail but haven't received Kushner's book yet? How much are you all taking. I wont start until I get a more definite answer from you or the book. I'm excited! Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
When you get the book can you print the info on here for dosing chronic?,,,,,thanks.....
daniella Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marnie: The bottles clearly say...not for longterm use!!!
And yes...definitely can cause miscarriage.
The "unfamiliar" herbs concern/worry me...many of them. Much more potent than we realize...and this one looks to be very potent if it can counteract DNP.
I was hoping (when enlarging the diagram) to find 16 hydrogens, not 17. The eyesight is going...
Tree...what's with the "do unto others"? Are you pro or con this herb? Why? I value your judgement.
Not pro or con the do unto others is just my signature you know in your profile.
Signature: Signatures can appear at the bottom of your posts. This option may be disabled by the message board administrators at any time, however. You may use UBB Code� in your signature, but not HTML. UBB Code� Images are permitted.
Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :
quote:Originally posted by JRWagner: Treepatrol...man, you rock bro'!
How are YOU feeling?
Peace, love and wellness, JRW
Feeling better now I had to start abx's again after 11 months off I think either I caught it back from wife or didnt fully get it the last time. Now that I started taking ibuprophen again aches gone away.Really getting fed up with trips to llmd sick of the driving and the wallet drain from abx's suppliments.
Other than that Iam here How you doing JR
Posted by chroniccosmic (Member # 7789) on :
Yes, I will post the dosage according to the book. My Bio Essence bottle says 6-8 pills, 2-3 times daily. I'm gonna start way under that though. Thanks! Posted by livinlyme (Member # 3773) on :
Update: I have the 120 tabs..(36gm)says to taek 3-5 tabs 2 or 3 times a day i started at 3 tabs once a day.. to be safe on herx... and stomach upset...trust me it is upset enough... I was taking everyday and missed one day then I missed the other day also I was on the road all day on a mission to help a friend in south Florida.. I missed taking them and wish I had thought enough to take them when i got home. they arent a miracle cure but they seem to be helping.. it does help the breathing I can attest to that much.. and I get those "growing pains" like I used to when i was a kid.. I really think it does boost the immmune response so I am going to keep taking for another week and then stopp for 4 weeks and kick back in on them for 2 weeks..no major side effects so far.. Linda
Posted by chroniccosmic (Member # 7789) on :
Daniella,
I haven't forgotten to post the dosage according to Kushner. His book is great and very clear about dosages but I have to try to get clear on what dosage this Bio-Essence product is. I'm trying to contact them through their website. For now, I just take a couple a day and don't want to steer anyone wrong.
Welcome--I saw you had the same issue. Did you figure anything out? Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
no chronic...I was told you could take up to7-8 5-6 times a day. You have to take enough so it will go into thte brain..
but I only had this written as a note on a piece of paper nener actually saw the dose from the book, keep us informed..
Posted by chroniccosmic (Member # 7789) on :
Okay, I got the book and have read this several times and I'm typing it straight from the book. This author is very thorough and there seem to be quite a few variables.
Dosage is Lyme Disease: 1-4, 400mg capsules 3-4 times daily of a preparation standardized to 10% andragrapholides. I suggest you begin with the lower dose for one week (1, 400mg capsule 3-4 times daily)to allow your GI tract to get used to the herb. Gradually increase dosage to maximum, (4, 400mg capsules 3-4 times daily) every seven days, i.e. after seven days take two capsules 3 times daily, then three, then four, then four capsules 4 times daily. Maintain this dosage for at least 60 days. If GI tract symptoms occur (nausea and so on) reduce the dose and allow your body more time to adjust. The amount of herb being taken can be reduced once Lyme symptoms decrease in severity, to three 400 mg capsules 4 times daily and then to two 400mg capsules 4 times daily and so on. The herb should be taken for 8-12 months in the treatment of Lyme or until the disease is either under control or eradicated.
The author suggests a standardized version of 10% but says some older preparations have 4-6% andrographolides. I'm still trying to find out from BioEssence what there product has.
This book is very informative and I hope this helps. Posted by kaos (Member # 4144) on :
Daniella,
How can you possibly say "it is working"? You can't distinguish between a herx or an interaction that may have nothing to do with Lyme. The point you should say it's working is when you are feeling better. All of us feel like crap when we take certain things and it's not always a herx. Still, I look forward to seeing you post about the positive outcomes if they happen.
Posted by welcome (Member # 7953) on :
Welcome, Thanks for the post, I was just starting to research other brands! I appreciate the short cut.
Posted by Bill ATL (Member # 7817) on :
Ok...I am on my 4th day of taking the Bio-Essence brand. Keep in mind I am Neuro-lyme with most issues in the form or headaches and Thoracic back (spinal)pain. Some vision issues, but minor.
1st two days I did 4 pills (more like pellets than pills) 2 x day. Last 2 days I did 7 pellets 2 x day.
Yesterday I felt my seemingly ever-present headache diminish and I seemed to have more energy than normal at the end of the day. Today I am feeling my original level of pain in my Thoracic spine area that I had last year when this all started.
Feels like a 8 inch knife is lodged in my spine. I am HOPING this is a herx reaction and not a return, or increase, of regular symptoms.
Also...regarding my present situation...I happened to be at a point where my regular pulse regimin (3wks of abx and 1 week off) came to an end. I was a whole week off before starting these and am doing them alone w/o other abx.
I am hopeful, yet restrained, that this might be having an affect.
Will update this post one way or the other.
B
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
I think you can't just take it alone. He recommends it with other herbs, and in the Isatis6 formula there are other herbs too.
It is not like an antibiotic where you just take a single drug.
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
Daniella:
Glad to hear the Andrographitis is working for you.
Can I ask at what dosage you are taking and how many a day?
Take Care dana
"I will not go quietly into the night"
Posted by Bill ATL (Member # 7817) on :
Ok...what are these other herbs and their dosage? I haven't seen anything within this post noting other herbs. Did I miss something?
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Seven Forests makes formulas for lyme, one isatis 6 includes andropgraphis.
I contacted just now a connecticut naturopath who contacted stephen buhner when his book came out. She does not know chinese medicine tho so wouldn't know about the above formulas. Her office manager says she started using the buhner herbs on some patients this fall. The office manager will get back to me next week on her confidence level in the herbs but I'd suspect its too soon to tell.
My concern is if you don't know herbs (as my acupuncturist friend knows chinese herbs and is taking the seven forests formula and its helping) how would you know how to apply them specifically to your own case? It would be like purchasing a bunch of abx at the store and self-dosing randomly. A skilled herbalist will know how to balance them. Thats one reason zhang's formulas really didn't help that many in the end. We all hvae different inflammatory levels, metabolism, different hormone levels etc. Different herbs will affect each of us differently. We need a skilled herbalist and I think this approach might work, if someone knew how to balance anti spirochetal/anti malarial herbs with anti inflammatory and immune boosting. Buhner made the clear point that modulating inflammation and boosting immunity is just as important. He understood that the microbes adapt to the environment they're in and the symptoms are based in part on host immunity.
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
Danilla Glad to hear the andrographitis is working.
Just wanted to know what doses you are taking and how many a day.
Take care dana :hi
"I will not go quietly into the night"
Posted by chroniccosmic (Member # 7789) on :
Okay, does this answer seem weird to anyone else? This is what I sent to Bio-Essence trying to match it to the info in Buhner's book.
"Dear Bioessence,
I have received my order of andrographis and I thank you. The instructions regarding dosages by my herbalist tell me to take a certain milligram dose of this standardized herb. The bottle doesn't list a milligram equivalent, is there any way you can get me this information? There are several others in my Lyme group who order from you and have the same question. I couldn't find it on your website.
Thank you,"
AND this is Bio-Essence's reply back to me.
"Sorry we do not use the standardized extract for the item either by granules or tablet or pills. users or practitioners may have to try themselves to find the effective dosage. Kris"
This doesn't make me want to give up on the andrographis because I too feel that is working although I'm starting very slowly according to how I muscle test the product. I don't think I will, however, re-order from BioEssence. Their answer is vague and they haven't returned my replies back to this e-mail. Hmmm. I will see if Buhner recommends any particular products or does anyone else know?
Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
I still feel it working....am very excited!...each time I take it the herx is lessening. I think I've(hopefully) gotten through the worst of it...
chronic...it is odd..
but real chinease medicine is measured differently isn't it? do you have them from bio essence? they use all chinease guidelines...
BillATL ...had a good system he was starting slowly...maybe ease into it?..I donno... Only if your comfortable..
what about the book? does it mention that brand specifically?
dana...I private messaged you!...
daniella Posted by hardynaka (Member # 8099) on :
to oxigenbabe,
I totally agree with you.
I went down to the 'Chinese' pharmacy to ask about this andrographis, the main guy was not there though, he'll be back next week.
I just would like to say I'm taking a Chinese 'tea' to help me increase body temperature (yang tea), the effect was amazing. It was very fast. But it is to warm 'meridians', which in my case, helps a lot because acc. to the guy, I have too much yin, not yang. He saw it through my pulse + symptoms.
You can believe it or not (I really don't believe it much, but I'm very pragmatic, and if it works it's fine for me).
But I am afraid of trying androphagis because that's a cold herb and may affect the stomach, my weakest organ! So I'm waiting for the guy to come back to ask him about that.
And if it's going to cool my body, I would be very afraid, because cold feeling can prevent me from sleeping, causes terrible night sweats, and even 'caused' my hipertension (because I'm constantly chilling and tense).
So I do think it's better to find a guy who knows about herbs at least to have a follow up.
just my 2 cents selma
Posted by quic (Member # 5262) on :
For the record,
Thanks to daniella and this thread, I've tried a course of andrographitis. I used the BioEssence product.
I took the 200 pills over an eight day period. There is no mistake about it. This herb will cause you to herx and this herx is significant. Mine was like no other that I had. The worst part about it was severe cramping in the foot and calves. Insomnia was bad for me too. Everyone knows though, that its gonna be different for each person.
Definitely have a detox plan if you use this.
Now that I've completed this course, I am in a much better place symptom-wise. I'm going to wait a week or two and hit it again.
Thanks so much again, Daniella. This has really helped me.
- Mike
Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
Thanks Mike! Great to hear that you are getting results...don't forget to keep up with all the other things you are taking too. I think it needs the combo,.. ya know..
just my thoughts..
I too have herxed again very hard, to the point I have been in bed for 2 days.
So I am starting my week off this week. Even though on this week off, I still take 5-10 pills everyday because it keeps away my acne!...
but I will ramp up the dose again next week...
I'm so excited that I could share this...
good luck guys daniella Posted by chroniccosmic (Member # 7789) on :
Daniella, Yes, I am also glad you started this discussion. I have now been on andrographis and cats claw. Buhner suggests 3 herbs as part of his protocol with the third one being Japanese knotwood. Haven't gotten that one yet but will soon add it to the mix. I'm starting real slow because I don't like harsh herxs because of past heart issues. So far its just made me real tired and need to rest a lot. But I'm hopeful and thank you. Posted by hardynaka (Member # 8099) on :
Has anyone got tummy pain taking Andrographis?
The guy from the Chinese pharmacy suggested me something else ( a warm herb) due to my tender tummy but I really don't feel much herxing... So I wonder if it works.
I'd like to try Andrographis too, but I'm SO AFRAID of getting problems with cold and tummy ache (I had gastritis for many years...).
I'll be glad to hear any opinion of those who tried Andrographis.
thanks Selma
Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
Just wondering how everyone is doing?...
I am still herxing pretty har again....I am hopeful. I woke the other morning and wasn't so exhausted and actually WANTED to get up...
for me that is substantial...
all of you pioneers check in.....
daniella Posted by chroniccosmic (Member # 7789) on :
Hello all, Still taking the andrographis and cats claw and haven't added the 3rd herb yet according to Buhner's protocol. I have to say that the more I read his book, the more impressed I am. He is very knowledgeable and I have a good feeling about what he recommends. I am taking the book to my cardiologist on Friday and ask him his opinion on something, so we'll see if he passes the MD test.
Anyway, the combo doesn't bother my stomach and yes, it does make me feel a little chilly. It is starting to get cooler here but it isn't anything that an extra sweatshirt or hot tea doesn't remedy. Before I take any herbal combo though, I have my acupuncturist muscle test me. I've always tested very positive for andrograhis and I think its helping.
I'm taking a very low dose compared to what some of you are taking and I just started the detox foot pads. That may explain why I'm not getting the herx. I'm glad I read about this herb and definitely will continue it. Thanks Daniella! Posted by Tj33 (Member # 7214) on :
WOW!!! What a great discussion! Learning a lot...
Thanks to all
Tj
Posted by quic (Member # 5262) on :
I took a week off (I needed it) and I started my second course yesterday morning. Herxed a little last night and today. So far, it isn't hitting as hard as the first time, but its still early. I'll be checking in again.
- Mike
Posted by Jim Bayliss (Member # 8247) on :
I just got my Andrographis today, and will be taking my first one in a few minutes, as I am just having my lunch right now. I am NOT taking any antibiotics YET. And I have been taking some of the herbs both together and by themselves to see WHAT reactions I am having with them. JR WAGNER, have YOU read Buhner's NEW book on Healing Lyme? IF not, I strongly suggest that you do. MAN, wished I had found Devil's Claw several years ago. I just might be in better shape today. I have NEVER taken herbs before, but definitely am becoming a believer in them with what has been happening to me in the past week with taking them for this horrendous affliction that I have been trying to live with. IF we haven't TRIED something, we shouldn't really knock it. WHY? MY doctor won't give me any antibiotics, I am gathering, as he did 6 years ago for 24 days, and claims I "HAD" to be cured from Lyme with THAT regimen. I cannot afford testing, IF I did, I couldn't come up with any of the money for the herbs. I can't afford the herbs, even; but can't afford not to take them either. I was age 63 LAST year, and became 94 THIS year. MOst people in my family don't live THAT long, so you know where I was headed, without doing something about this Lyme thing. Remember, you are only as old as you FEEL! Jim. ###
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
Still working?
Posted by docjen (Member # 7510) on :
Thanks for bumping this thread. Can't wait to hear how everyone is doing!
Posted by Cass A (Member # 11134) on :
I had high hopes for the Buhner herbs, but after passing out for an extended period for a second time, I had to end off on them.
At the time, I was taking Andrographis, Japanese Knotweed, Simlax, Vincamine, Huperzine A, etc., 3X a day at a fairly low dose.
I believe it was the Andrographis, as that was the most recent one I'd added.
Best,
Cass A
Posted by jwf (Member # 6292) on :
Andrographis worked for us, but with a whole lot of help-- 2 Seven Forest formulas. Very seldom do you find that one or two herbs will help you turn the corner with a disease, so we found the Seven Forest formulas to be helpful.
Cat's Claw, in our opinion, is still No. 1 in the fight against Lyme diseae. Sarsaparilla is in the top 5, along with the Kyolic 103 formula, and Olive Leaf Extract.
Notice that Artemesia attacks Bb as well as Babesia.
posted 20 March, 2007 07:12 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The two Seven Forest formulas that I took were Forsythia 18 and Isatis 6 .
If you take the two Seven Forest formulas then you get *8 known anti-spirochete herbs . In addition, Smilax or Sarsaparilla has been discussed quite a bit, and Chinng-hao you may recognize as Artemisia.
As a rule of thumb, we never took Artemesia or Artemisinin at the same time as the Seven Forest Formulas.
The Artemesia seemed to combat Lyme better than the Artemisinin, but that is a subjective conclusion.
There are several online sources for the Seven Forest Herbal Formulas. It is recommended that you buy them from an ND, acupuncturist, or knowledgeable practitioner.
Blue Skies..........John
Posted by july (Member # 10469) on :
I took this a while back. It was the first herb I started. One pill and the glands in my neck swelled up. I couldn't even touch them they hurt so bad. It lasted about 5 days and I only took the 1 pill.
What do you think? Herx? or bad reaction?
Scared the crap out of me, I've been too scared to try it again.
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
Wow- Thanks for the info!
I'm glad to know beforehand that I need to be cautious starting these herbs.
I also find the info on the formulas interesting.
I think the gland thing would have freaked me out too. I'm not sure what to make of that, maybe someone else might know. My glands are usually a bit swollen & tender to begin with. I think they help filter toxins, so maybe too much, too fast?
Was it a 400 mg pill you took? Are you very petite perhaps? I think I read that the protocol is based on about 150 lb. body weight.
Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :
quote:Originally posted by JRWagner:
Marnie...please email me...watch out for WILMA!!!!!
Treepatrol...man, you rock bro'!
How are YOU feeling?
Peace, love and wellness, JRW
I feeling tired JR. Marnie that tag has been on my Display from the begining of all my posting.
Posted by quic (Member # 5262) on :
This was over two years ago. I now consider myself 98% free of lyme. The andrographitis worked the best for me the first time and less on the subsequent times I used it. But that was a pattern for me for just about anything I tried. For me, cat's claw did just about nothing. Everyone is so different. The Andro. helped me get well to a certain degree. Anybody with specific questions can PM me.
- Mike
Posted by adamm (Member # 11910) on :
quic-how long did you have it before it was caught?
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