My doctor told me about Lymenet, I am new here. I was diagnosed with lyme in 2004 after battling a strange mystery ailment for a year. So far I am getting better on antibiotics looking into other options.
I am reading a book by Brian Rosner called "Top ten Lyme treatments"
So far I am a bit confused. He mentions not to use IV antibiotics but my doctor says that is totally wrong. Also he mentions using the Marshall protocl which I believe makes you take less vitamin D and even restrict vitamin D. How can that be healthy especially in light of recent research that shows vitamin D helps the immune system?
For now I will stick with antibiotics but I wanted to get anyone's opinion on this book or other non conventional treatments that have helped. I've already looked at the lymenet newbie links.
My best,
Mike gleeson, portland
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
I think for some IV ABX are required. I think the point was that it may be pushing the infection deeper and creating cystic forms of the infection which sets us up for later relapse.
As for the MP, this is a controversial area even outside of the book. I hve not personally been convinced that it is a good approach, but some people including Bryan have felt it provided good results.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Hi Mike,
You will find there are a lot of different opinions out there on treatment. Brian's is one of them ... your doctor's is another.
I truly believe you have to find a doctor whose philosophy of treatment is most like yours then go 100% with his program.
My LLMD is basically a holistic doctor, but believes that you have to start out with antibiotics. He works with orals. He treats coinfections first or simultaneously. He supports the antibiotic therapy with supplements. He has an herbal protocol, but lowers the bacterial load with abx first.
I have had this for 35 years and only identified it recently. The past four years I've been pretty ill. Prior to that I had three other times where I was so ill I could not work, but it only lasted a few months.
The first two times I got mostly better with diet, exercise (rigorous), sunshine, and rest.
The third time, I also had my amalgams removed and went on an anti-candida diet. This remission lasted over 10 years!
This time I'm much sicker ... I got sick after another infection required a 21 day round of doxy. Seems that the doxy stirred things up.
In my "healthy" years, I had some symptoms, but nothing major. I had lots of energy.
So, I'd say that for me, good diet, exercise, and sunshine have been a HUGE help in living normally with the Lyme. I still do all that in conjunction with my treatment.
The antibiotics can't work alone ... you have to rebuild health.
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
If you have not read it yet, a slightly less controversial Lyme book is "Healing Lyme ..." by Stephen Buhner.
This book deals with an herbal approach and has very good summaries of the medical literature on Lyme and other tickborne infections.
Search under Buhner or Healing Lyme or any of the specific herbs (andrographis, resveratrol, cat's claw etc) to find lots of discussions on this website.
Many find the herbs help and take both the herbs and antibiotics.
Glad your doc pointed you to this website. Many helpful peolpe here.
Bea Seibert
Posted by mojo (Member # 9309) on :
I certainly don't agree with everything in this book but overall it's OK.
The Marshall Protocol is way out there, I think, but many people swear by it.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
You might want to read his first book as well. Some treatments work for some people...some do not...just like everything else for lyme!!
Go with what your dr says. If none of that works, then look elsewhere. Bryan explains in his book that if the first line of defense were working there would be no need for the things he describes in his second book.
Posted by Kthompson (Member # 11931) on :
Hey sixgoofykids, I am so glad that I read your post here because I was starting to feel like I was losing my mind but your story is alot like mine.
I have been dealing with lyme for a very long time, how long I don't know but at least 20 years that I can trace back to, maybe more.
I was diagnosed about 7 years ago and took about 4 years to really get me to a point where I felt good.
Started having symptoms again in Dec of last year and after being treated with doxy in Jan. and again in Apr. I am sooooo much worse now than I was. Does anyone know why that is? I am still back in search of a good LLMD to get me back on track.
I am so glad that I found this site so that I know that I am not alone in my frustration. Thanks
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
One month of doxy just isn't enough ... it's only enough to stir things up. I REALLY think that's what happened to me ... but at the same time I was under significant stress, not just normal stress.
My other three times I became symptomatic were all periods of unusual stress.
Posted by Greatcod (Member # 7002) on :
Amazing isn't it, how many newbies have Brian's new book? He must have quite the following.
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
quote:Originally posted by seibertneurolyme: If you have not read it yet, a slightly less controversial Lyme book is "Healing Lyme ..." by Stephen Buhner.
This book deals with an herbal approach and has very good summaries of the medical literature on Lyme and other tickborne infections.
Search under Buhner or Healing Lyme or any of the specific herbs (andrographis, resveratrol, cat's claw etc) to find lots of discussions on this website.
Many find the herbs help and take both the herbs and antibiotics.
Glad your doc pointed you to this website. Many helpful peolpe here.
Bea Seibert
I agree, Stephen's book and treatment work quite well. Some can take with abx, some can only do the herbs alone. Both ways CAN work for you, depending on your system.
The big thing is when you are on herbs, you will mostl likely "feel" better while you are treating.
Jim Posted by Greatcod (Member # 7002) on :
"The big thing is when you are on herbs, you will mostl likely "feel" better while you are treating."
That's how the traditional medicines worked. They had no knowledge of germs, of the immune system, of genetics or of many conditions and diseases that we know now. Instead, they tried to make the patient feel healthier. They understood the outer symptoms of course, chills and fever, can't poop and diaheria, and so forth. They didn't understand the biochemistry of illness or treatments, but they did understand what combinations of herbs and plants made people be healthy and feel better. Greatcod, Minor Herbalist-- No charge for your first consulation
Posted by chroniccosmic (Member # 7789) on :
I got Bryan's first book for sale if anyone is interested.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Greatcod: "The big thing is when you are on herbs, you will mostl likely "feel" better while you are treating."
But what if you only FEEL better?
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by chroniccosmic: I got Bryan's first book for sale if anyone is interested.
Good book! But I already have it.
If you don't sell it, I have a friend who may want it.
Posted by Michelle M (Member # 7200) on :
I'm still waiting for him to change the Burrascano Guidelines to the current ones.
Last I heard, he said he would.
Michelle
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo:
quote:Originally posted by Greatcod: "The big thing is when you are on herbs, you will mostl likely "feel" better while you are treating."
But what if you only FEEL better?
##
WHAT more do you WANT? Hey, IF I can feel BETTER for the rest of MY life, that is good enough for me. After all we live in a feel good society.
As long as my mind is clear, I can still see decent, NOT have headaches and pain, and be productive, what more can I ask for?
Jim Posted by Greatcod (Member # 7002) on :
You are missing the point, which is that the goal of traditional medcines is to make the person feel healther. And over the centuries, they figured out which plants and herbs help people do that. A very good and vital goal. Medical science approachs the problem differently, trying to restore health by understanding the pathogens and what kills them, and how its medicines work to do that, in the case of infectious diseases. And that too is vital. My problem is with anyone who claims, for whatever reason, to have found a cure-all. That's just BS, and is designed to take advantage of desperate people in many cases. Where there's suffering, there's a buck.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by JimBoB: WHAT more do you WANT? Hey, IF I can feel BETTER for the rest of MY life, that is good enough for me. After all we live in a feel good society.
Well, I don't really disagree with that....just throwing it out there. I worry about newbies not getting the treatment they need in order to KILL the keets.
I'm where you are now....I feel the Lyme has been "arrested" and I now FEEL GREAT due to a great natural product.
So, I hear ya!! Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
TuTu:
THAT is hopefully where Fallon's study or studies will be beneficial to ALL of us.
HOPEFULLY, HE WILL do more than JUST abx in the studies.
MANY do not respond to abx, and/or relapse if they do. So there NEEDS to be other regimens subjected to "formal" testing, so the many that cling to THIS system of western medicine can see what really works and what doesn't.
Most of them do not listen to us who have had good results with herbs, or other forms of helpful protocols.
True, NOTHING is "perfect" for ALL of us at this point in time, and maybe there never will be in this imperfect system we live in. We have gone so far astray of where the creator designed us to be, that there really isn't any hope to ever get it back the way it is going.
We can only HOPE that we can find something that keeps us reasonably in decent health, especially for those that are getting on in age.
In all that I have read and seen the past couple of years, I personally don't believe that any abx can "kill" ALL the Chetes. IF they can hide so well, as has been reported, there is always going to be some surviving.
THAT is where it is important to get "healthy". That can't be done with abx. It takes our natural immune systems to do that. BUT, yes, it does need help occasionally.
It stands to reason, though, that we can't kill all the good with the bad.
We can't get away from "bugs". We need to get our bodies in tune to live harmoniously WITH them. At least as long as we can.
Jim Posted by PortlandLymie (Member # 11976) on :
Thanks for all the answers, you guys are great.
What does "doxy" mean?
Thanks.
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
quote:Originally posted by PortlandLymie: Thanks for all the answers, you guys are great.
What does "doxy" mean?
Thanks.
Doxycyline. An abx.
Jim Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo:
quote:Originally posted by JimBoB: WHAT more do you WANT? Hey, IF I can feel BETTER for the rest of MY life, that is good enough for me. After all we live in a feel good society.
Well, I don't really disagree with that....just throwing it out there. I worry about newbies not getting the treatment they need in order to KILL the keets.
I'm where you are now....I feel the Lyme has been "arrested" and I now FEEL GREAT due to a great natural product.
So, I hear ya!!
TuTu: WHAT is the "great natural product"?
Jim Posted by PortlandLymie (Member # 11976) on :
Thanks everyone. I think I will continue on antibiotics and get ready to use Buhner's protocol if I still have symptoms after my antibiotics.
Mike
Posted by jasonsmith (Member # 10914) on :
What milligram a day for the Ceftin?
Does it work better than Doxy? I had to stop the Doxy because it gave me too much diarrhea. I already have that anyways, IBS.
So, I'd like to replace that drug. Right now I'm taking:
Diflucan Biaxin Tindimax Bactrim DS Mepron Artemesia (Zhang's) Theralac (A couple a week)
I was taking Zythromax, but I think that was giving me diarrhea, so I switched over to the Biaxin.
I also have some Flagyl.
Flagyl vs. Tindimax?
Zythromax vs. Biaxin?
Posted by GenaD (Member # 11988) on :
Going back to the stuff on here about Bryan's book...
I asked my LLMD (who I feel is very educated on tick illness) about the Marshall Protocol and the IV debate...(Basically I was praying he wouldn't want me to do the Marshall Protocol ).
He said the IV antibiotics are only in certain cases...Same thing with the Marshall Protocol. He said it's just one tool.
Sounded to me like it depends on the situation, but he would prefer to be as conservative as possible when treating.
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
quote:Originally posted by jasonsmith: What milligram a day for the Ceftin?
Does it work better than Doxy? I had to stop the Doxy because it gave me too much diarrhea. I already have that anyways, IBS.
So, I'd like to replace that drug. Right now I'm taking:
Diflucan Biaxin Tindimax Bactrim DS Mepron Artemesia (Zhang's) Theralac (A couple a week)
I was taking Zythromax, but I think that was giving me diarrhea, so I switched over to the Biaxin.
I also have some Flagyl.
Flagyl vs. Tindimax?
Zythromax vs. Biaxin?
WOW, no wonder you have diarrhea.
I didn't know ANYONE took THAT many abx at a time.
I couldn't even take ONE at a time for the most part.
THAT is where the herbs come in. THEY will build your system UP.
HOPE you have a system left when you are done. Are you taking a LOT of probiotics and liver cleansers, such as Red Root tincture, and Milk Thistle?
I find they are more important than the killers for your well being.
Jim Posted by PortlandLymie (Member # 11976) on :
Has anyone used deseret biological homeopathic remedies?
Posted by AndrewInCA (Member # 2010) on :
I met a woman here in my city who said the Deseret Lyme homeopathic "series" did the the most to get rid of her Lyme (or cured her).
I don't know anyone else who has used them.
Posted by wanaqueling (Member # 12092) on :
Jimbob, you could kill yourself with liver damage taking all those at once. There is no evidence to suggest any benefit from taking so many different types of antibiotics at once!
Many LLMD's now suggest Biaxin/Plaquenil as the best way to get the Lyme out of your cells.
Jonathan
Posted by PortlandLymie (Member # 11976) on :
I'm still curious to hear more stories about the deseret remedies. Anyone else?
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
Hi Portland,
I was first bit in 1995 and 6 mths abx got me back on track.
10 yrs later in 8/05, I came down with migratory joint pain. I had already been suffering migraines, stiff neck, hearing loss, short term memory problems, and most recently mental confusion ever since the first bite.
This go round chronic (longterm) lyme was diagnosed. This particular MD was also a board certified homeopath. He did not feel abx were the answer.
Deseret Biologicals were some of the remedies he prescribed. They are FDA approved. The remedies completely cured my migraines, short term memory problems and mental confusion. I had great energy while on them as he also gave me homeopathic vitamins.
Unfortunately it did not get rid of my joint pain so I am still working on that. But doing very well by cleaning up metals, yeast, parasites.
I highly recommend the remedies under the guidance of a certified homeopath.
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