I read this in PJ Langhoff's new book, which is excellent by the way. Has anyone ever heard that taking Magnesium will strengthen the biofilm? I know a lot of us supplement with it, do you think it could contribute to our chronic illness?
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Interesting. I haven't heard that. I tried oral magnesium last year for about 6 months, sometimes sporatically, sometimes I did it 5 times week. It made my heart crazy. I do epsom salt baths and eat a lot of greens/sunflower seeds. That doesn't seem to bother my heart.
I hope that the mag doesn't strengthen the biofilms. Is the thinking because the spirochete uses the mg to strengthen them?
Take care, Ocean
Posted by bears1985 (Member # 17271) on :
Magnesium, Iron and Calcium contribute to biofilm formation.
Posted by Lymeorsomething (Member # 16359) on :
Where's the Marnster when you need her? Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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There are MANY other ways to break through the biofilm. Alllicin is one of those. Specifics enzymes are another (Wobenzyme, nanokinaise and lu . . .something . . .)
As I understand it, Marnie posts that we need magnesium for our cells and that there are other ways to combat lyme.
It is a very important consideration that by trying to starve Bb by with-holding magnesium, our bodies can suffer much damage.
Here is a recent post by Marnie on how magnesium is key to treatment:
Nutritional Supplements in Disseminated Lyme Disease
J.J. Burrascano, Jr., MD (2008)
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Posted by kelmo (Member # 8797) on :
<I read this in PJ Langhoff's new book, which is excellent by the way. Has anyone ever heard that taking Magnesium will strengthen the biofilm? I know a lot of us supplement with it, do you think it could contribute to our chronic illness? >
I laugh when I read this. When I first came on Lymenet three years ago, I went against the flow stating this. My daughter's LLMD STRONGLY believes this. He said everyone is mag deficient, but as the biofilm is broken down, it releases magnesium back into the blood stream.
My daughter had to sweat out all the magnesium we pumped into her with epsom salt soaks.
Marnie will be along shortly to post something about this, I'm sure.
But, if all it took was supplementing with magnesium, wouldn't we all be well by now?
Last month, I asked our LLMD if my daughter needed magnesium since we have avoided supplementing for three years, and she has back muscle pain.
He said, "go ahead".
We chose to use an infrared heating pad and bolouke enzymes instead. I think after a month, my daughter's pain went down from a six to a three.
Posted by Bugg (Member # 8095) on :
Hi guys--
Please be careful about withholding magnesium. It is so vitally important to so many functions within our body....especially ATP (energy) mitochondrial function. I was very low in magnesium and my muscles became severely tight and my eyesight even started to become impacted. Through IM magnesium and IVs, I greatly improved my fatigue and stamina. It also helped my heart to beat regularly again. (yes, when I first started it,I felt worse....like with everything with this disease, I think the toxins become mobilized when you start impacting mitochondrial activity)....
As an aside, researchers have found that those who are low in magnesium will also be low in glutathione, an antioxidant which is essential to detoxification and cellular energy....
Finally, just fyi, Kelmo please note that epsom salt is magnesium sulphate...People often soak in this to absorb magnesium through their skin....
Take care and healing wishes to all....
Posted by blaze (Member # 16838) on :
...A few studies that have measured the biological effects of microwave radio emissions from cell phone towers find that they increase free radicals and oxidative stress, lower glutathione (GSH) and lower cortisol levels.
Photographs of red blood cells exposed to cell phone signals show red blood cell aggregation, an abnormal condition. The distorted red blood cells impair oxygen delivery and the removal of CO2 and this alone has vast consequences for cardiovascular health.
Currently, there are no investigations on the effects of cell phone signals on impairing the body's immune response against viral, fungal and bacterial infections while empirical evidence grows that cell phone radiation may be degrading and impairing the immune system of millions of people worldwide.
From the common cold to the flu, infections are lasting much longer than they use to from 10 days to several weeks or even months. Microwave radiation weakens the integrity of cell membranes and accelerates the aging process. Millions of people exposed 24/7 to microwave radiation from cell phone towers are being slowly cooked. The long term damage may be irreversible.
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
scary!
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
squash,
what Gave you the idea Mg might "strengthen" a biofilm aorund a BB 'kete colony? Biofilms are made of proteins which, yes, contain some elemental Mg but I don't see any mechanism to "strengthen" it relying on "available" Mg++ ions.
Did Ms Langhoff mention such a hypothesis in the latest book? (The '...Lunatic Fringe' one, yes?)
What study or studies is it based on...& by Who? [as she's only a researcher]
BTW, Not to knock her, but does she have any Real medical credentials? I've combed through her background via various biographies out there & see No formal medical training, though she has "studied medical terminology, worked in the medical field and in homebound geriatric care", according to`1 bio.
BTW, Dr D (in Mass) believes in NOT using any supplements, either vitamin OR mineral. Just a good, balanced diet apropriate for abx use. He feels supplements help the 'ketes out! WHAT TO DO?
I just wish the new IDSA panel would hurry up & agree the current Lyme guidelines need changing, so that more research is stimulated [into what abx AND supps- and dosages- ARE appropriate]!
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Conventional docs will NEVER EVER recommend supplements.
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
Ahhh... But 'Dr. D' is a famous LLMD near Boston (in UOS: "We never even got to Talk about chronic Lyme..." He was on the old panel.) HE follows many of the ILADS recommends. Just not [most of] the supps, esp the B vitamins. Thinks they support BB growth.
Posted by mandy614 (Member # 16524) on :
Keebler,
Does eating raw garlic suffice in breaking down biofilm or must you have the pill form in allicin?
Thxs mandy
Posted by hoot (Member # 19281) on :
Not Keebler...but... I think raw garlic will work the same as allicin as long as you crush it and eat it right away.
hoot
Posted by squashlyme (Member # 12865) on :
She says that some researchers state that the biofilms seem to grow stronger and more resistant to antibiotics in the presence of increased levels of magnesium. And that it is a concept worth looking into....a delicate balance. But, indeed, something to think about.
Yes, the book is the one with the superlong title, The Baker's Dozen & The Lunatic Fringe...Has Junk Science Shifted the Lyme Disease Paradigm?
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
Thanx. I'll have to check it out. Is it in B & N? Any on-line page previews?
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
"The biochemical changes show the improvement in lecithin/cholesterol ratio,
the decrease-particularly in β-lipoproteins-and in *plasmin inhibition* produced by the magnesium therapy."
Bb binds to our plasminogen which converts to plasmin by an abundant enzyme.
The "biofilm" maybe plasmin used in "quorum sensing" (chemical "communication" between Bb and its offspring).
We have a hard time dealing with Bb's OspB because OUR ANTIBODIES are damaged.
Mg restored them.
Documented - Pubmed.
Posted by springshowers (Member # 19863) on :
Marnie
What do you know about Slime Mold ??
Also. Isn't there a big difference between biofilm around a certain organism as opposed to the film that is in the blood where colonies of organisms make a home for themselves?
I hear people use the word biofilm for many things while describing things and I get confused.
I just know you can help me out.
Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
I've heard rumblings of the claim(s) against Mg, but I have to say that I wouldn't sacrifice it because of this reason. As one poster said, there are other ways of dealing with biofilms.
I can tell you that at the very beginning of my dx and tx with Lyme, the Mg was a BIG help in putting a stop to much of the twitching and myoclonus. Right now, I'm scrubbing with clay and psyllium for biofilms AND using transdermal MgCl + H2O daily, at half the recommended dose, (as I'm not as Mg deficient now).
There's no doubt that anyone and everyone can take too much of anything, supps, abx, whatever, but I'm with Marnie's camp on this one. Keeping a " correct balance " of Mg and others is important. IMHO
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