This was just sent to me. I can't believe what I just read from Willys own mouth. This is definitely some sort of cover up.
LT
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
OMG. Scary. When did this interview actually take place? Was it in 2007 when the film was shot or recently? I wonder if that researcher they talk about saying security clearance is true?
Posted by Vermont_Lymie (Member # 9780) on :
Wow!
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
copying this here & breaking it up for neuros like me who can't read continuous text with no double spacing, etc....
june 9, 2009
On February 28, 2007, the UNDER OUR SKIN film crew interviewed Willy Burgdorfer, Ph.D., M.D., and Scientist Emeritus at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), for three hours at his home in Hamilton, Montana.
Dr. Burgdorfer is the discoverer and namesake of the spirochete (a type of bacterium) that causes Lyme disease, called Borrelia burgdorferi.
He has received numerous awards, including the Robert Koch Gold Medal, the IDSA Bristol Award, the Schaudinn-Hoffman Plaque, and the Walter Reed Medal.
He is a coeditor of the book, ``Aspects of Lyme Borreliosis,'' and has published over 220 research papers.
Just as we began filming, there was a pounding on the door, and we found ourselves facing someone who turned out to be a top researcher at the nearby Rocky Mountain Laboratories, a biolevel-4 NIH research facility.
Standing on the porch, our uninvited guest said, ``I've been told that I need to supervise this interview. This comes from the highest levels. There are things that Willy can't talk about.''
We were stunned. After all, Dr. Burgdorfer had been retired from the lab since 1986.
We were there to talk to a private citizen, about the history of a very public discovery that had put him on the short list for a Nobel Prize.
Earlier that year, the NIH had refused our requests to interview any of their Lyme researchers. What was going on?
Why would the NIH want to censor information about the fastest growing bug-borne disease in the United States?
Fortunately, our iron-willed film director, Andy Abrahams Wilson, turned the NIH handler away, and what followed was an amazingly candid interview about Lyme disease--its dangers and its controversies.
Here are highlights from this three-hour interview:
Andy Wilson: Could you describe the ``Aha!'' moment when you discovered the spirochete that causes Lyme disease?
Dr. Burgdorfer: I remember that time quite well.
Allen Steere called me in the summer of 1977 and said, ``Willy, I would like to discuss with you the methods you are using in dissecting ticks, and [looking] for microbial agents.''
I sat with him about two hours that summer and told him over the phone how to dissect ticks. Then about two months later he called again, and I repeated, again, the same thing.
And he finally said [in 1981], ``Well, I'm willing to send you some serum [samples]. I want you to examine them for me.''
But it was not an ``Aha'' [moment]. It was a ``What in the hell? What's in that smear?''
And then my work [on relapsing fever] as a Swiss student came back. [I said to myself], ``Willy, these are spirochetes!''
The slide showed long slender forms, a little bit curved, and they were only in the mid-part of the tick. Nowhere else. There were so many people who said, ``That is impossible Willie. You can't get spirochetes out of hard-bodied ticks.''
[But from my work on] relapsing fever ticks from Africa, I knew what a spirochete looked like.
The Belgian Congo and Kenya are hotspots for relapsing fever.
Even Livingston [the African explorer and Scottish missionary] was exposed, and he called it ``tick fever.''
Andy Wilson: And what did they call this spirochete?
Dr. Burgdorfer: I discovered the agent producing Lyme disease, so they called it Borrelia burgdorferi, after my name, Willy Burgdorfer.
The initial findings were published right away in Science magazine. And even today, [this discovery] is considered a breakthrough in spirochetal research.
There are many laboratories that are using our techniques, applying them to syphilis, because of similarities.
Andy Wilson: What are the similarities between Borrelia burgdorferi and syphilis?
Dr. Burgdorfer: The similarities that I know of are associated with the infection of the brain, the nervous system.
The syphilis spirochete, Treponema pallidum has an affinity for nerve tissues.
The Borrelia burgdorferi spirochete very likely has that too.
Children are especially sensitive to Borrelia burgdorferi.
The Lyme disease spirochete is far more virulent than syphilis. We don't know the end yet.
And [we] can't even make a [blood] smear with Borrelia burgdorferi and see the organism. It's there. But you don't see it. You cannot find this spirochete. Why not?
After all, I have a sick person here. He is trembling all over. His spinal fluid is full of spirochetes.
But when it comes to blood, it's not there. So there is something associated with this organism that makes it different.
Andy Wilson: Why is Borrelia burgdorferi so hard to find in the body and culture outside the body?
Dr. Burgdorfer: Borrelia burgdorferi in the tissues of a patient is extremely difficult to demonstrate, because, first of all, you don't like somebody to take samples out of your brain [to look] for spirochetes.
The same with other tissues. Every system in your body can be infected with spirochete. But to prove that is extremely difficult. It demands surgical work, which is very expensive
Andy Wilson: Are you a believer in the idea of persistent Lyme infections?
Dr. Burgdorfer: I am a believer in persistent infections because people suffering with Lyme disease, ten or fifteen or twenty years later, get sick [again].
Because it appears that this organism has the ability to be sequestered in tissues and [it] is possible that it could reappear, bringing back the clinical manifestations it caused in the first place.
These are controversial issues for microbiologists, as well as the physicians who are asked to treat patients.
Andy Wilson: How do you feel about the controversy in the Lyme world?
Dr. Burgdorfer: The controversy in Lyme disease research is a shameful affair. And I say that because the whole thing is politically tainted.
Money goes to people who have, for the past 30 years, produced the same thing--nothing.
Serology has to be started from scratch with people who don't know beforehand the results of their research.
There are lots of physicians around who wouldn't touch a Lyme disease patient. They tell the nurse, ``You tell the guy to get out of here. I don't want to see him.'' That is shameful.
So [this] shame includes physicians who don't even have the courage to tell a patient, ``You have Lyme disease and I don't know anything about it.''
Andy Wilson: What about the Lyme vaccine?
Dr. Burgdorfer: The [first generation] vaccine was not specific enough and not strong enough. So what is needed is additional work on a vaccine.
What we have right now is a good example of work that goes to industry [too soon], and industry says, ``Okay fine, get it out. `` And somebody says, well it's too early. And it's already on the market ... and you see that every day ...
You see that this company is falling down, and these guys are realizing that the vaccine work is full of holes and never should have come out.
A lot of people are going to pay for that. They're going to get sick with Lyme as a result of the vaccination. Then you're in trouble.
Andy Wilson: What do you think about the relationship between Lyme and neurodegenerative disease like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease?
Dr. Burgdorfer: Right now they are building a research center at Columbia University, to study this possibility, because many physicians believe that neurologic manifestations, regardless [of] what type, are typical for Lyme disease.
Andy Wilson: What do you most regret about what has happened, in the aftermath of your discovery?
Dr. Burgdorfer: I most regret that the technology used to diagnose and to even treat Lyme disease wasn't worked all the way through.
It [was based on] only a few results, then published. And later on, people [wanted] to take them back. I think Borrelia burgdorferi is too serious an [infectious] agent to play with, and with many laboratories, the severity of the disease is overlooked.
Andy Wilson: What's the next stage of research?
Dr. Burgdorfer: Neurologic manifestations have to be the next stage of research.
Also [Borrelia burgdorferi's] antigenicity. Ecologically, the diversification of Borrelia is tremendous.
Because of the spirochete's ability to change--to change its physiology, to change its ``antigenic'' structure for instance--a spirochete may be capable of producing disease or not.
And one piece of work that needs to be done, that has lately been neglected, is development of the spirochete--whether it transfers [genes via] fission, or whether individual spirochetes have the ability to break into spheres or particles.
We don't know yet how they do it but they do. They go into the lymphocytes, they go into every tissue.
Just because we have not seen [them], does not mean that they are not there. Once the immune response is down, are [they] capable of re-entering the bloodstream and producing disease?
Andy Wilson: Do you have Lyme?
Dr. Burgdorfer: No. I don't. But I say that cautiously. Because I have been working with Lyme disease ever since 1981. _______
Soon after we turned-off the camera and began packing up our gear, Dr. Burgdorfer told us with a sly smile, ``I didn't tell you everything.''
Bookmark and Share 6 Comments so far
1. Luke June 9th, 2009 6:26 pm
Great reporting.
[Soon after we turned-off the camera and began packing up our gear, Dr. Burgdorfer told us with a sly smile, ``I didn't tell you everything.'']
... Oh you can't leave us hanging on that, whats the rest of the story?!? 2. Jerry Leonard June 9th, 2009 6:28 pm
``I didn't tell you everything.'' -Wow. Great interview. Did you happen to ask him if the non-treatment of Lyme (a syphilis-type organism) is the de facto continuation (on a national scale) of the CDC's infamous Tuskegee experiment (with untreated syphilis), which was exposed and discontinued at about the same time the Lyme epidemic took off and has been artificially perpetuated by CDC/EIS ``experts'' (e.g. through fraudulant treatment guidelines) ever since?
Jerry Leonard 3. Kathleen Liporace June 9th, 2009 6:47 pm
Wow, that last statement is haunting. I wonder what he did not tell...Further, would he be willing to tell all? Was his last declarative an invitation for further questions at a future time? 4. Colleen Collins June 9th, 2009 8:38 pm
Why didn't he tell you everything? We have the right to know the whole truth!
Mom of 5 kids who have been very sick from Lyme and other Tick-borne infections! 5. Kathleen M. Dickson June 9th, 2009 9:00 pm
THANK YOU WILLY!! 6. Lynn T. Shepler MD JD June 9th, 2009 9:11 pm
I did have a telephone conversation with Dr. Burgdorferi many years ago when he told me he was recruited from Austria to work in the U.S. biowarfare program.
When I asked him whether the organism in question - Borrelia burgdorferi- was an agent studied with respect to biowarfare, he said, ``No.''
Of course, I did not know if he was telling me the truth. He did talk about the interest of other intracellular agents that have been of interest in biowarfare, such as Q fever, for example -- but all of this has been written about.
Just go to your local public library, or Amazon.com and search ``biological warfare.'' You will be surprised by what you read.
Maybe they did not want Willy to spill the beans about his involvement in biowarfare research, but what is the surprise?
Well, politically, Nixon said he had closed down the U.S. biowarfare program. Maybe the U.S. never really complied with that and took all their stuff and put it under the aegis of the CIA.
Now they call it ``biodefense.''
But, one would suspect there is more - something more they have not told us about this organism and about Dr. Burgdorfer.
Leave a reply ************************************
thanks for posting this; very informative & leaves us all with detective work to do! Posted by Pinelady (Member # 18524) on :
Oh my goodness. Bless you Mr. Burgdorfer.
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
I think we should all go and protest by Marching in front of the White House !!
Oh Yeah, were Homebound !
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
This is amazing. Thank you for sharing it with us!
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
I agree Lymetwister, but they'd shoot us down like rabid dogs.
Posted by Leelee (Member # 19112) on :
OMG! What more could there possibly be and why did he not tell?
I am left with an eerie, chilly feeling. Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Maybe he knows the cure and won't tell us?
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
I hope he has it written somewhere or recorded and in a safe deposit box with instructions to it or a treasure map or something.....he is getting up there in age!!!
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
i hope he doesn't go to the grave with it and NOT to be released upon his death!
someone mentioned a protest in front of the white house; yes, we're bedridden ...
good one, we could plant ourselves in front of our tvs with the white house in the background ... will this do with our signs held up proudly ? Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
Still,it is very important to have this in the public domain: has it been posted to Obama's Health area?
Posted by John S (Member # 19756) on :
Do we live in China or America?
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
I wouldn't be surprised if he'd be imprisoned/physically hurt if divulging the information. I'm sure he's threatened.
Posted by lymielauren28 (Member # 13742) on :
Wow! Twister, let's take a road trip to Montana...
Lauren
Posted by Pinelady (Member # 18524) on :
I wanna go! I think He is a very honorable man and
we all know the questions but he does not have
those answers or I do believe he would tell us. But
I would like to take him to dinner.
Posted by John S (Member # 19756) on :
If he doesn't take you up on going to dinner I'll fill in for him.
Posted by lymemomtooo (Member # 5396) on :
I think it would be unfair for us to individually contact him. IT would be overwhelming and he would shut down.
But I think Andrew should persue this when possible. lmt
Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: I wouldn't be surprised if he'd be imprisoned/physically hurt if divulging the information. I'm sure he's threatened.
He no doubt had to sign a confidentiality agreement to work in the industry that he worked. Violation of this sort of C.A. could very easily mean prison... For starters.
ping "We are more than containers for Lyme"
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
Doesn't the 'Freedom of Information Act' kick in after a certain period of time? Or does that only apply to non-governmental cover-up information?
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
"I think it would be unfair for us to individually contact him. IT would be overwhelming and he would shut down."
100% in agreement. He has done and continues to do SO much for us... and contacting him at home, and even posting his private information here, IMO, is not fair to him or his family.
Andy would NOT have released that information, had he NO intentions of following up on it.
No one has the right to tell another what to do or not do, but please think this over carefully before acting on any impulses to contact him.
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
I called him and he was very very nice on the phone. He answered many questions and he didn't shut down.
In fact, quite the opposite. He was full of information and invited me back to call him anytime with any more questions.
I recorded the conversation and he agreed to allow me to share it with everyone here. I'm converting it to mp3 format now and will upload it shortly as soon as I can find a free hosting site.
He answers the big question in the article presented at the beginning of this thread.
I again asked him towards the end if any more questions arose, could I call him back. He answered absolutely yes, or something to that notion.
LT
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
I'm so pleased that you got the answers you were looking for Lymetwister, and that you are willing to share them with us.
However... PLEASE, let us ALL not bombard him with more calls?
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
I hope these are the answers WE are all looking for.
For the record, I would never suggest multiple people calling this retired man. I agree that this would be an invasion of his privacy and a big intrusion of his life.
LT
Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
GO TWISTER! I can hardly wait to read your transcript!
ping "We are more than containers for Lyme"
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
Then would you mind removing his personal contact information above?
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
twister, i agree with melanie; frankly, i'd like to see you DELETE your link; that's personal just like it would be for YOU/ME ... i'd RESENT the fact someone posted my personal info.
please delete it now before more readers see this...
just click on pencil, on the post where you show the link, and then delete that info.
thank you on behalf of everyone; WE ALL DESERVE OUR PRIVACY.
thanks for telling us what you did and he agreed to let you share your private phone call with us all!!! hugs
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
Deleted :-)
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
Thank you so very much! Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
No need for thanks, it's the right thing to do. In hindsight, I should have never posted it, but I was too chicken to call and just decided to go for it.
My ethics are where yours are.
Still working on the upload, it's an MP3 file and almost a 50 min. Conversation. He is a great guy and had much to say as you will hear.
LT
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
LT...you seriously spoke with him and he talked with you??
OK...I know I am a blonde and can be gullible at times....but I will choose to believe this as no one has laughed yet....
I hope I'm not being the ditzy blonde, but I am very excited to listen to it.
Ocean
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
I seriously spoke with him. I used my windows mic. to record the conversation.
When I played it back I heard alot of my breathing, so I'm using an editor to take out the background noise to make it easier to hear.
Once I'm done, I will uploaded and post the link for everyone to listen to.
Shouldn't be too long. Dr. Burgdorfer has a very heavy accent, so it is essential to make it as clear as possible.
Stay tuned..
LT
Posted by gridmonster (Member # 19280) on :
Fascinating read, thanks for the original thread starter link, lymetwister.
Posted by John S (Member # 19756) on :
I'm amazed it was that easy to get in contact with him.
Posted by John S (Member # 19756) on :
You would think he'd have an unlisted number. Go figure.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Lymetwister,
Did you tell him you were recording the conversation? Does he know it is about to be accessible by others on the web?
I would hope that you have his approval for this before you do an mp3 link. It is very important for many reasons.
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Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
I asked him in the beginning, which got cut off for some reason, but then I asked him again towards the end, just to reiterate that the conversation was a recording. He answered this was fine to share with others as you will hear.
My PC is so slow doing this conversion thing. It's only half way through, then I have to upload it. Hopefully, that part will go faster.
Sorry for the delay, I promise it's coming.
LT
Posted by John S (Member # 19756) on :
Why am I worried that someone is about to bump lymetwister off before we hear this.
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
Why do you say that John ? Have I done something wrong ?
If you guys don't want me to post this, than I won't.
I don't want to break any rules on here. Please tell me now before I do this.
LT
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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lymetwister,
I think we would all love to hear, as long as Dr. B. has agreed. That's the only part that was of concern.
John,
I just wanted to be sure that Dr. B. was aware. Sometimes, in our enthusiasm to share we might forget to get the proper approval. I used to work in journalism and if ever a private conversation was recorded or published without the person's knowledge, there were legal and ethical ramifications.
Not everyone is aware of some of the guidelines for private conversations. It's good to hear that Dr. B has given his approval, so that he knows his private conversation will be shared and how.
-
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
WOW.
Someone who is honest.
That's a nice change.
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
Ok, now you've got me worried.
The last thing I need is to get bumped off of here. I was trying to do something good.
I'm not a lawyer, but from what I know, so long as you tell someone they are being recorded and they say it's ok and you tell them what you are going to do with it and they say it's ok, than there should be no problem.
Maybe I should give an overview in words of what he said.
I'm not looking for any kind of fame here or any spotlight on me.
Please tell me what to do folks. I don't want to lose my best support system.
John, you've got me worried now.
LT
Posted by John S (Member # 19756) on :
I'm just joking Lymetwister.
Posted by John S (Member # 19756) on :
It was in reference to the spooky NIH minder in the article.
If he said it's okay I'd post it. Once it's out you'd have less to worry about anyway if it were some government secret.
Posted by John S (Member # 19756) on :
I doubt he said anything he wasn't supposed too. If he didn't do it in Under Our Skin he wouldn't tell some random caller.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Lymetwister,
I see no problem. You have full consent from Dr. B. Please share. Thank you.
If you have any reservations, you can always send Dr. B a follow-up thank you note (or call) for his generosity and concern. Say that you finished making the MP3 and that you are just checking back with him to be sure that it's still okay to put a link on Lyme Net's bulletin board so that others can benefit from your conversation.
He will be grateful for the courtesy. And he'd probably also really like to have the link himself for his personal file.
-
Posted by John S (Member # 19756) on :
Though if I had the truth, if there is some conspiracy, I wouldn't mind getting bumped off to expose it. I wish I could, it would be worth it.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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John,
I think you would like a new book, (The?) Baker's Dozen. It's by an author who has written other lyme books.
I recall a post the other day where someone said this new book exposes a lot of (I'm at a loss for the right word) . . . stuff.
check it out.
-
Posted by John S (Member # 19756) on :
Opportunities to do something so profoundly noble in life are few and far between.
Posted by John S (Member # 19756) on :
Thanks Keebler.
Posted by AmyPW8 (Member # 11504) on :
Go for it, Lymetwister! If he gave you his permission to do so...do it!
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Lymetwister...I posted a comment on the site...will see if it gets posted or not.
Yea...I'm nervous too!!!...I have figured out a LOT about this pathogen in the last 9 years.
I have a letter (snail mail) from Willy that I received years ago.
He asked me about the "metals".
I indicated which one(s)...
My concern is not how this happened...but how do we CURE it.
And of course, how do we PREVENT it.
Posted by John S (Member # 19756) on :
Oh well I'll have to log on later and see if it's posted.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Something is screwy...last post (comment) says June 10th at 5 something pm.
That is impossible.
I live on the east coast. It is Wed., June 10th and it is only 2:43pm right now.
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
twister, thank you so much for deleting that. i feel so much better about that... giving him the privacy he deserves.
glad keebler spoke to you on a journalist' viewpoint too so everything was correct.
i'm looking forward to hearing this as well. thanks for taking the initiative and trying and your efforts/work on this as well. Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Wow, I can't wait to hear this either. Very gutsy Lymetwister - I'm impressed.
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Uh oh...where did LT go?? Hopefully the government hasn't gone to her (I'm thinking it's a girl, if not, I am sorry!) house and taken her computer!
I wouldn't put it past them!
Oceam
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
I seriously wouldn't either - I'm not kidding one bit.
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
she just is taking time off the board; doesn't live on it like some of us lol kidding
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Lymetwister is a guy.
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Marnie,
about the time of a post, some computer programs are set to record entries on GMT, Greenwich Mean Time (sort of an international measure).
Just as LN shows posts only in ET regardless of the time zone of the poster, that other site may have theirs set in a different time zone.
-
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
Ok, I called him back as Keebler suggested, just to make sure he understands what I'm doing with the audio file.
His wife answered, who speaks clear english, no accent. she also sounded younger, so I told her what I was about to do and asked her if she could make sure he understands. Dr. Burgdorfer is sharp as a wit, but his accent is so strong, so I wanted to make sure he understood everything.
He came on the phone next and I explained exactly what was going to transpire with the file. He has no idea what an MP3 file is, but he knows a little about the web. He again told me that he had no problem with me posting this information, but this time, he asked me if I had a transcript to review.
I explained to him that this was a 50 min. phone call and that I had no transcript, but would create one for him if he so wished for a final approval. I told him, I could also make a copy of the audio on a disc, but he then told me he had no way to play it. So, a transcript it is.
So now, I'm stuck typing a 50 min. conversation, and have to send it to him by mail. I will wait for his approval and then I guess he will give me the ok to upload the audio file. If not, I will have to upload the transcript somewhere, as I'm only going to type it once, and then I will give you guys the link to it.
The bottom line is that there is NO Conspiracy going on that he is aware of. His statement that "He didn't tell them everything" only meant that there was so much more to discuss, but nothing to hide.
The article played with that little line there at the end to make us feel like there was more going on than what we already knew. But there isn't.
Dr. Burgdofer is a great guy, and the reason the conversation was 50 min. was because he was saying alot, some of which was repetative, or I had to ask him to restate many things due to his accent.
He basically told me that the answer is simple re: the Lyme spirochete. And that is: Once science understands the physiology of the organism, then they will understand how to treat it. He says, it's a simple thing, but at the same time, very complex.
He says Serology is the same thing, and it's up in the air.
I asked him if anyone had picked up on his work after he retired and he told me, not directly. Apparently, there are some researchers in other countries that are studying the Lyme bacteria, but he is not aware of their progress.
He had no secrets to offer, nor anything that will get any of us better sooner. He is aware of the big debate and knows about ILADS. He feels bad for all of us who have to suffer and can't get Dr.s to listen to us.
He has never heard of Salt/C or Rife.
He was even so kind to take my personal address and offered to send me the names of some doctors that would. I don't know who these Dr.'s are or where they are.
Regarding antibiotics, Dr. Burgdorfer doesn't know what works best or if any of them even work at all. He states he was not an MD, but a research scientist. He worked with ticks and infected mice, rabbits, etc. to see how the spirochete would change once infected.
Although he is known for identifying the organism, his career did not provide him enough time to study the Spirochete as he had wished.
That was the gist of the conversation. I will have to type it all out and send it to him as I said above.
I'm glad I made that second call, even though he really didn't seem to have any concern about me posting the conversation. I think he was just being professional with the second call asking for a transcript.
It does appear that I made a new friend, as he offered me to call him anytime for anything. His heart goes out to us all.
I am so sorry to everyone. I'm sure everyone would be just be happy to hear his voice. I felt like I was talking to the U.S. president myself.
I promise I will follow up on this. I don't do much during the day, so to take time and type a 50 min transcript shouldn't be so bad.
Please don't kick, scream, and holler at me. My intentions were good. Now, I just created work for myself, but it's good work, so I don't mind.
LT
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
Sorry, this is in response to Keebler's comments above. I'm a tad slow at typing.
When you go to 'your profile' and then to 'edit your profile'... you can change the time zone shown on LN. Mine is set to Pacific. I had to do a +3 hour thingy to get it to work.
Now I am not half as confused as I use to be. Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Melanie,
Oh. Thanks. I thought I tried that but it still shows that I post on ET. I, too, am Pacific time and it is 1:06 here but this will post as being 4:06.
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LT,
Fabulous. You write very well and I really appreciate the extra effort you have taken here. Thanks.
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Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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sorry to take this space for a test but it's the only way to see. I made that adjustment, this should post at 1:09, which is what it is here on the west coast.
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edit - well, now I'm really confused. the time did switch but it switched for everyone, too. I have to go lie down. this is far too complex. LOL.
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Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
Keebler, it will show ALL times posted by everyone from now on in YOUR time zone.
I need a nap too... sweet dreams! Posted by nenet (Member # 13174) on :
Thank you for posting a link to this interview, lymetwister. Very interesting.
Posted by Tiramisu (Member # 15082) on :
Thank you, LT.
Posted by Bugg (Member # 8095) on :
Lymetwister--thanks so much for your efforts...
It's sad that we're not closer to a cure...I'm sure Dr. Burgdofer would be thrilled to witness that during his lifetime...
Is anyone aware of a researcher who is solely focused on a cure for chronic lyme?
(I know Dr. Fallon's team at Columbia is studying the disease but I'm not sure what aspects they are focusing on)...
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
Gary, Thanks for all this. I was going to ask you if there was any way to get a transcript, some of us like me can comprehend the written word much better than the spoken.
I'm relieved you posted that there was "no great conspiracy" etc.....you gave us the bottom line answer that we were looking for, so it puts a lot of anxiety (which I know you are an expert at!) to rest.
Could you drop me an email when you have a minute; I just need to ask you a quick question. I have my pm 's turned off here because I get overwhelmed by having too many places to check for messages.
Thanks.....good work. Hope you are feeling well.
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
gary, thanks for calling willy back & a brief update what your conversation was actually about .... Posted by Pinelady (Member # 18524) on :
Thanks Twister and All.
Sometimes ya just gotta go for it. And everything
worked out great. But it looks like dinners off.
Darn it.
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
It's a noble effort, but IF there is a conspiracy or more to it not to be disclosed to the public, there is no way in #### he'll disclose it to a random caller.
My best friend for 20 years was in the Air Force 10 years ago. He was in Colorado Springs. To this day, he can't tell me what he worked on due to signing a govt' confidentiality agreement. Nothing would make him budge. Obviously, they put your feet to the fire.
I'm sure whatever he worked on was nothing relative to possible bio-warfare organisms so you can imagine how that is protected.
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
Kinda reminds me of the whole Roswell thing....UFO cover up.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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TW,
I'd second that option to have a transcript. Sometimes, when listening to a recording if there is even the slightest click I can be clobbered with a seizure. So a transcript would be safer for me. Although, I'd like to try to listen, so if you notice any beeps or clicks, it'd be nice to know in advance.
Thanks, again.
BTW, I spoke with Dr. B many years ago and we had a wonderful conversation. He is a generous and concerned man.
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Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Why he doesn't mention the fact that he found Adult Filarial Worms in the ticks as well as the spirochetes is beyond me.
I saw the documentation of this a few months ago from 1984 posted on MD Junction. Can't find it now.
The Filarial Worms can be as bad as the spirochetes because they inflitrate the lymph system. Maybe there isn't a Nobel Prize for worms really good effort tho twister, thanks,
Gael
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
this has been a most informative post to read; thanks gary for posting it. Posted by Dekrator48 (Member # 18239) on :
Thanks lymetwister....what an honor it must have been to talk to Mr Burgdorfer!
Posted by John S (Member # 19756) on :
Wow I should have never said anything. I don't think there would have been anything he didn't want said.
Oh well maybe it's the right thing to send him a transcript.
Posted by keltyl (Member # 14050) on :
This is almost unbelievable. Thank you thank you LT.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Why did it take TWO YEARS for this interview to be brought to our attention?
Is this interview legit?
Was it posted to get our names and e-mail addresses? If so, why?
My comment was NOT posted.
But I didn't "subscribe" in the upper right corner...necessary?
Many moons ago, I did very well in microbiology class and loved it. (My regret today is that I didn't go into that field.)
The way to destroy a gram negative pathogen is 2-fold:
1. We must destroy the cell wall or prevent it from forming in the first place.
Our own antibodies or antibiotics do the above.
2. Now, if we are "lucky" and Bb has not rebuilt "his" cell wall, to rid CWD (cell wall deficient) forms other things must then "kick in": osmotic pressure changes OR ultrasound - to "finish the job".
I suspect barometric pressure changes also impact the CWD forms...which maybe why we "ache" before storms approach.
Mother Nature may help us out...albeit to a degree.
So...even if we DO destroy Bb's cell walls...we STILL have to deal with the (now) CWD form BEFORE Bb has a chance to rebuild it.
Keep in mind...Bb has MULTIPLE cell walls which makes it MUCH harder to destroy and in "hostile" conditions, when it goes into cyst forms, it is even harder.
Compared to anthrax which has only ONE cell wall.
Many years ago, I sent (via postal mail) Dr. W.B. the Romanian abstract which indicates Mg levels MUST be restored WHILE giving abx. (Both IV doses over MANY days.)
He responded by "snail mail" and I still have it.
He was interested in my ideas about "metals" and said I would be contacted by the then head of the lab.
I never was.
Metals = minerals.
Which one, which one(s) can be used to fight Bb?
There IS more than one.
One of them inactivates/inhibits PLA2. It is lithium.
Another impacts Fe. It is gallium.
And of course, Mg...which IS needed to make our antibodies (along with Ca), IS an anti-inflammatory and anti-histamine, IS needed to make all of OUR enzymes and IS needed to inactivate HMG CoA reductase and halt the cholesterol pathway which IS one of the many pathways Bb takes.
I believe the cure is 2 (or 3) fold:
1. Get the inflammatory cytokines down...BOTH TNF alpha and (esp.!) IL 1 B
AND at the same time:
2. Hit the pathogen. There are many different ways to do this and one way maybe to simply restore the "missing"/depleted amino acids. Other ways include Rife, far infrared, HBO or IV abx. in conjunction with step #1.
3. Be prepared to deal with the "toxins" which MAYBE the dying immune cells which Bb WAS camped out in. Too many cells dying off too fast = sepsis. Our bodies can only process cellular "debris" just so fast.
Benicar works in an entirely different way, but may work.
In days of old, the "Universal Remedy" was in the Merck manual. It was eliminated because of "lack of space".
It was 3 fold:
Mg oxide, tannic acid, and finally... activated charcoal.
Think very very carefully about HOW the above would/could work.
Look very very closely at the nutrients...vitamin C + green tea extract = reducing inflammation
Alanine, lysine, proline...and HOW they work. What IF these critical amino acids were depleted by Bb?
I believe it IS possible to eliminate this infection, but it likely will take TIME and a "significant level" of treatments.
We must be careful because the body can only handle so much "die off" just so fast.
Go slow. Sepsis is deadly.
Posted by losferwrds (Member # 19741) on :
quote:Originally posted by lymetwister: I called him and he was very very nice on the phone. He answered many questions and he didn't shut down.
In fact, quite the opposite. He was full of information and invited me back to call him anytime with any more questions.
I recorded the conversation and he agreed to allow me to share it with everyone here. I'm converting it to mp3 format now and will upload it shortly as soon as I can find a free hosting site.
He answers the big question in the article presented at the beginning of this thread.
I again asked him towards the end if any more questions arose, could I call him back. He answered absolutely yes, or something to that notion.
LT
Why don't you put the recorded interview you did on youtube, make it the audio portion of one of your videos people do it to post music all the time?
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
los... he is contemplating various things, but his primary concern now is typing up his 50 minute conversation and sending that in paper copy to willy.
from there he will do more....
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Is there a bottom line?
How do we destroy that pathogen?
Does he know?
A medical transcriptionist could type up their conversation really fast (they are used to doing that):
Medical transcriptionists listen to dictated recordings made by physicians and other health care professionals and transcribe them into medical reports.
Posted by steven (Member # 13101) on :
I found this interesting in the link posted above:
"After all, I have a sick person here. He is trembling all over. His synovial fluid is full of spirochetes. But when it comes to blood, it's not there. "
This maybe explains, why most abx doesnt help us. They dont cross the BBB enough.
Posted by sizzled (Member # 1357) on :
Thank-you, Lymetwister.
Nice to hear words from this honest scientist!
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
twister, did you receive a PM from me; i haven't heard back from you. thanks Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
Do we know what happened to the forthcoming transcript?
Posted by gemofnj (Member # 15551) on :
Someone mentioned Plumb Island in this link and I found this when I googled lyme and biochemical war fare.
Very interesting, and very scary. Written by a doctor, but not sure if it is legitimate or propaganda.
Im a little slow and have suffered from lyme but, could this actually be the reason OUR government and doctors dont want to put money into research, and they DISMISS
lyme exists because they will discover that americans brought a soviet over to this country to test out germs on us????
What the #$@!!!
and if that is the case, why dont they just do something like a 'hold harmless' agreement and move forward so that millions of people can get treatment!!
good god what is going on here???
Posted by j_liz (Member # 20496) on :
I've been away for awhile and was wondering if there is a post with the phone interview yet. If so, would you mind giving me the link as I can't find it doing a search.
liz
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
liz, so far nothing; lymetwister has been into treatment and very sick~
Posted by j_liz (Member # 20496) on :
Oh, I am sorry to hear he is so sick.
liz
Posted by j_liz (Member # 20496) on :
I'm back again and was wondering if anything was posted. I hope lymetwister is better. I don't mean to be a pain, I am just very interested.
liz
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
I never read this before and it is very interesting. I live about ten miles from Hamilton MT where Willie lives. I did not realize he is still there, and still alive. He must be pretty old by now.
I would contact him if he had any information about treatment or local doctors that know something about how to treat. Sounds like he doesn't.
I have a friend whose husband works at the lab and I have told her they can talk to me if they are interested in knowing what the local ticks carry as I tested positive for three infections. No one is interrested.
She said when her family moved here people at the lab warned her husband to be very careful of the ticks as they carry some "nasty stuff". Yet no one in the community knows that there is anything to be concerned about and the doctors insist there is not lyme here.
This is all so strange to me.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Update on lymetwister,
He recently went back on the salt/c protocol and Parastroy an antiparasitic herbal. He posted some pictures of worms and parasites that were exiting from him as a result of this.
It was within the last week. Maybe he will come along and give us a further update.
I do believe the lesions many exhibit are a direct relation.
Posted by lou (Member # 81) on :
So, what happened to the transcript? Anything? Does he need help transcribing it?
Posted by Pam08 (Member # 19203) on :
Lymetwister has been very sick which is probably why he wasn't able to get the transcript out.
He did sum up the conversation though on page one of this thread and it doesn't sound like we missed anything life shattering.
Lymetwister basically said that Dr. Burgdofer said there is no conspiracy that he knows of and nothing to hide.
So I don't think we are missing out on any revealing secrets without Lymetwisters transcript.
BUT although that is what Dr. Burgdofer told Lymetwister I am not sure if that is the case.
I am sure that Dr. Burgdofer knows things that he can't tell us. If he knew any classified information he could never tell that without breaking the law.
The reason that I think Dr. Burgdofer knows more than what he is telling everyone is because of what was said in that original article that was posted.
Here is what was said in the article:
quote: Just as we began filming, there was a pounding on the door, and we found ourselves facing someone who turned out to be a top researcher at the nearby Rocky Mountain Laboratories, a biolevel-4 NIH research facility.
Standing on the porch, our uninvited guest said, ``I've been told that I need to supervise this interview. This comes from the highest levels. There are things that Willy can't talk about.
There is no way that people would be sent over to supervise the interview if Dr. Burgdofer didn't know some things. They even stated that there are things he can't talk about.
What those things are? Who knows!
Dr. Burgdofer says he isn't aware of any conspiracies. Maybe that is the case but he certainly knows some things that he isn't allowed to share.
Posted by onbam (Member # 23758) on :
If having an NIH heavy tail him to the interview and coerce him isn't conspiracy, I don't know what is.
Posted by iamgreek (Member # 29517) on :
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really good effort tho twister, thanks,