People often say that artistic talent runs through your blood and runs through your veins.
I am an artist and a designer, and I found the above statement to be *literally* true today.
I had my second LLMD appointment today with doctor R. and to make a long story short I will talk about the most interesting part of the appointment -- My Fry Labs Smear.
The Smear looks like modern art. The red cell infiltration is off the wall. He seemed *very* confident that this was bartonella but said it could possibly be Mycoplasma. I have heard that the "dots" on the slide are often outside the cell -- but in my case they have infiltrated INTO most of my cells and create a full circle. (40-50% of the cells)
I looked at the photos of Babesia and it definitely doesn't look like my slide. However, the bart and myco photos definitely match. However, Doctor R. said that he rarely sees what my slide shows. Perhaps I have had Bart for so long (15-16 years) that they have just infiltrated like crazy.
I have also heard that there is controversy between BLO and Bartonella. I have even been given the hypothesis that when the dots are outside the cell they might be BLO, and when they are inside (like the rarity of formation of mine) they might actually be true Bartonella. However, this is just one persons theory. It might make sense though because it has been said that more people might have BLO than Bart. So maybe full fledged bart is rarer, therefore explaining the rarity of my slide.
I do know that the Fry Smear is by no means 100% -- but it definitely gives me an outlook on this co-infection like I never had before.
I have also been ill for 15 years come this summer. Started after an untreated bulls eye rash.
Mine also says "hypolastic erythrocytes observed"
Would you mind sharing when this specimen was tested?
Posted by kitty9309 (Member # 19945) on :
Just wanted to add:
The life cycle of Bartonella is about every 5 days.
Once the bacteria infiltrate the cell, they remain there for the life of the RBC. That is 120 days or shorter. This allows the bacteria to just sit and wait for vector (flea, tick, etc) to come along and suck it up!
Every 5 days, give or take, a new wave of bacteria leave the protective primary niche (tissues, etc) and enter the blood stream. They then enter the red blood cells.
Posted by AmandaM (Member # 17466) on :
quote:Originally posted by kitty9309: Interesting. My pic is nearly identical to yours.
I have also been ill for 15 years come this summer. Started after an untreated bulls eye rash.
Mine also says "hypolastic erythrocytes observed"
Would you mind sharing when this specimen was tested?
Blood was taken at my first appointment and the specimen was tested on 3/27/09
Posted by kitty9309 (Member # 19945) on :
Thanks, Amanda.
Call me paranoid, but I was just making sure we didn't have our smears made the same day! lol
Mine was run on 4/20/09
Did your doctor say what the treatment would be?
I am to start Rifampin in addition to my Biaxin/Plaquenil this weekend.
They are so similar. I'll try to get mine on here tonight.
Posted by AmandaM (Member # 17466) on :
quote:Originally posted by kitty9309: Thanks, Amanda.
Call me paranoid, but I was just making sure we didn't have our smears made the same day! lol
Mine was run on 4/20/09
Did your doctor say what the treatment would be?
I am to start Rifampin in addition to my Biaxin/Plaquenil this weekend.
They are so similar. I'll try to get mine on here tonight.
Well -- I have major Gut issues so my doctor is very weary of orals. I am currently on IV rocephin for my Lyme -- but we are adding oral zith for 8 weeks until my next followup.
He eventually wants me on Rifampin. Posted by disturbedme (Member # 12346) on :
That's really weird... I didn't think Bart looked that way... it looks like Babs to me but you said you didn't think it did. My Bart Fry smear is little dots sitting on the outside of the cells.
Amanda, What does it say in comments on your slide -- couldn't read it in the picture.
Comparing your slide to hubby's first Fry smear in March, 2007 I am rather confused. Hubby had about half as many of the rings as you -- but the rings inside his cells are only about half as large as the rings on your slide. He also had the dots on the outside of the cells.
Hubby's rings were all in the center of the cells and look very similar in size to the one in the center of the link posted by Amanda except that that ring is off center.
His slide said -- moderate coccobacilli adherent to erythrocytes indicated by yellow arrows. Moderate protozoal forms seen indicated with red arrows. Differential: Coccobacilli -- Bartonella spp. Protozoans -- Babesia spp.
The rings but not the dots went away before the 2nd slide in August, 2007. He treated with low dose quinine/clindamycin for 4 months and then did 2 rounds of primaquine/chloroquine in between the 2 slides. Also 6 weeks of IV Primaxin.
I am really curious as to what your primary symptoms are and what if any treatment you have had for Bart or Babs prior to the slide.
Do you have any other test results -- antibody or PCR which indicate either babesia or bartonella?
While the whole Fry thing is somewhat confusing I thought everyone who had the rings (many do not have this finding) had been labeled as having babesia or a protozoa -- at least until very very recently.
Bea Seibert
Posted by kitty9309 (Member # 19945) on :
I would love to know if the rings are Babesia rather than clumps of coccobacilli.
My Babesia FISH was negative.
I am waiting for Bartonella PCR from NC State. Will hopefully have results in 2 weeks.
Posted by Leelee (Member # 19112) on :
kitty,
Please let us know the results of your Bartonella PCR.
I have been so sure of my diagnosis all along, but having read so much lately I wonder if I should be skeptical too.
Posted by kitty9309 (Member # 19945) on :
You bet I will post when I have me results. I am chomping at the bit!
My symptoms do point to Bartonella, but boy do i want an accurate test to prove it.
I think it is good to question this when there are no solid answers.
Posted by AmandaM (Member # 17466) on :
quote:Originally posted by seibertneurolyme: Amanda, What does it say in comments on your slide -- couldn't read it in the picture.
Comparing your slide to hubby's first Fry smear in March, 2007 I am rather confused. Hubby had about half as many of the rings as you -- but the rings inside his cells are only about half as large as the rings on your slide. He also had the dots on the outside of the cells.
Hubby's rings were all in the center of the cells and look very similar in size to the one in the center of the link posted by Amanda except that that ring is off center.
His slide said -- moderate coccobacilli adherent to erythrocytes indicated by yellow arrows. Moderate protozoal forms seen indicated with red arrows. Differential: Coccobacilli -- Bartonella spp. Protozoans -- Babesia spp.
The rings but not the dots went away before the 2nd slide in August, 2007. He treated with low dose quinine/clindamycin for 4 months and then did 2 rounds of primaquine/chloroquine in between the 2 slides. Also 6 weeks of IV Primaxin.
I am really curious as to what your primary symptoms are and what if any treatment you have had for Bart or Babs prior to the slide.
Do you have any other test results -- antibody or PCR which indicate either babesia or bartonella?
While the whole Fry thing is somewhat confusing I thought everyone who had the rings (many do not have this finding) had been labeled as having babesia or a protozoa -- at least until very very recently.
Bea Seibert
I have a positive antibody test for Bartonella that says I have been exposed. I believe it was through IgeneX.
At the bottom of my sheet it says that the slide is distinctive of either Hemobartonella or Mycoplasma.
I have had no treatment for bartonella prior to the slide test. The test was taken at my first appointment. In the past I had only taken oral doxycycline.
Posted by Wonko (Member # 18318) on :
quote: I think it is good to question this when there are no solid answers. [/QB]
Doesn't that also make it maddening?
Mine looks most like the one posted by disurbedme, with similar comments on the slide.
Posted by kitty9309 (Member # 19945) on :
It IS maddening!
Funny how the bacteria on the outside of the cell and the intracellular bacteria are both being called the same thing.
Bart's life cycle does include a brief stay attached to the red cell, though.
Posted by radfaraf (Member # 11909) on :
Anyone got articles explaning the life cycle of bart? I keep looking on google, but I can find 0 information except with kitty mentioned here.
Posted by kitty9309 (Member # 19945) on :
See Figure 1 on the right.
Posted by Wonko (Member # 18318) on :
some of mine are in, others on the outside, but all are the small dots like in the pic posted by disturbedme.
I had so many symptoms and herxes consistent with what others atrribute to Bart, I do think it's a big part of my problem.
Posted by kitty9309 (Member # 19945) on :
![[Smile]](smile.gif)