All my lyme books that give natural or homeopathic cures for lyme say that RMSF is rare and don't give treatment suggestions. But I have it with Lyme. How can I treat it without antibiotics?
Also, I can't do anything in an alcohol base or cat's claw.
Thanks
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
It's easy to get the alcohol out of tinctures. STephen Buhner (second-hand information) says to simmer the tincture for 5 minutes. My additional thought here is that you should add a little water first so it doesn't all just evaporate and dry up.
What i do is, boil some water as for tea. Pour water into small cup. Add alcoholic tincture drops. Wait. I think wait 12 or 15 minutes, that's what people say, something like that, i don't know for sure how many minutes. Easy. I do that routine 3 times a day for 3 or 4 alcoholic tinctures .
I thought RMSF is an emergency? Someone posted here that a way to get abx if you think you've just been bitten, is go to the ER and say "Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever" that you think you might have it--- then by law they have to give you doxycycline, because RMSF is a life or death emergency and must be treated by law. Do you have it chronic??
By the way, i almost died of RMSF when i was 2 yrs old.
---Polly Polygonum
Posted by linky123 (Member # 19974) on :
Hi Ictheobald,
RMSF can be really serious, even fatal. I would see a doctor soon.
Our PCP tx my husband right away even before the labs came back, just on suspicion of symptoms. He said people die of it every year, and it can kill you fast.
Sure enough, the lab tests were positive, so the doc was right to treat right away.
He tx him with doxycycline. Our llmd also tx my daughter for it. He used minocycline because of the sun-sensitivity to doxy. It was summertime in Arkansas, so he used the mino instead.
Please don't take RMSF lightly.
Linky
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
I thought you were already on antibiotics for Lyme...?
Anyway, you could seek out a homeopath for treatment. There's nothing in homeopathic remedies for your GI tract to react to, chemically speaking, except a trace amount of sucrose. Liquid remedies can be made without alcohol using 'dry' remedy pellets.
If you are already on abx, I'm not sure how well homeopathics would work, however. Anything that substantially affects the immune system can weaken the effects of homeopathic medicines. A homeopath could give you some advice.
[ 09-08-2009, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Truthfinder ]
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
There is a chronic form of RMSF, as with most TBDs.
However, yes... if it is acute, immediate treatment is necessary. Far too many die of this disease by either waiting too long to seek treatment or by the ignorance of treating physicians who do not recognize the symptoms or seriousness of RMSF.
BTW... NEVER touch a tick if you can help it. This disease, like some others, is transmitted transdermally.
Posted by kitty9309 (Member # 19945) on :
Melanie-
Do you have any references for chronic RMSF?
Thanks!
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
Hey Kitty, I should have known as soon as I mentioned this that someone would ask for references. Let me try to dig them up, and I will post a bit later on.
Posted by lctheobald (Member # 18093) on :
putting tinctures in hot water I was told burned the alcholol off but also renders the tincture useless due to the hot temperature.
I was told by tinture place to not put it in hot water above 110 degrees, let sit for 10 mintues. but it still had alchol and burned my bladder.
Posted by lctheobald (Member # 18093) on :
i was on doxycyline but quit after 5 days. I had a raging yeast infection. OTC, diflucan nothing kept it from hapening.
Was on the candida diet and everything. Very strick so antibiotics are out.
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
It depends on what kind of herb is in the tincture! Some substances, like lapachol from Pau d'arco, require both heat and alcohol to be made available, absorbable.
----Polly Polygonum
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Google Herbs + Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever.
If you can't take capsules, open them up and put them into unsweetened applesauce. Looks like they are the same herbs as you would use for Lyme,
Gael
Posted by lctheobald (Member # 18093) on :
I don't have an issue swallowing capsules. The issue is that I have interstitial cystitis, and normal lyme herbs irritate my bladder, cat's claw sent me to the emergency room.
Tinctures in alcohol cause issues as well.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Have you ever considered salt/c?
It saved my life and sea salt is a natural bacteriocide,
Gael
Posted by bejoy (Member # 11129) on :
Deseret Biologicals has a homeopathic series remedy for RMSF. I have found their series remedies to be quite effective.
Posted by laceyj (Member # 13862) on :
let me know if you find something helpful, i have it also.
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
Alright, here are a couple of abstracts that show a chronic or persistent RMSF after initial treatment:
Bergeron JW, Braddom RL, Kaelin DL Persisting impairment following Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever: a case report. [Case Reports, Journal Article] Arch Phys Med Rehabil 1997 Nov; 78(11):1277-80.
A patient initially presented in the emergency room with fever, confusion, and a petechial rash. Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever (RMSF) was diagnosed and appropriate treatment was initiated. He subsequently became obtunded and required mechanical ventilation and temporary cardiac pacing. Four weeks later, he presented to our rehabilitation unit with ataxia, hyperreflexia and upper motor neuron signs, dysesthesias, sensorimotor axonopathy demonstrated by electrodiagnostic studies, and a global decrement in cognitive capability. Although he significantly improved in functional mobility and self-care, he exhibited little improvement in his cognitive impairment at 6-month follow-up. An understanding of the natural history of, and long-term impairments associated with, RMSF will be helpful to physiatrists in developing rehabilitation care plans and in assisting such patients with community re-entry.
..........
Long-Term Sequelae of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever Lennox K. Archibald and Daniel J. Sexton � 1995 The University of Chicago Press.
Abstract Twenty-five patients with definite or probable Rocky Mountain spotted fever (RMSF) who were hospitalized for ≥2 weeks were identified from our database of 105 patients. Follow-up information was collected for 20 patients, per telephone and/or medical records. The remaining five patients were lost to follow-up or died.
Nine patients had long-term sequelae (defined as complications related to an original acute infection with Rickettsia rickettsii that persisted for greater than 1 year following hospital discharge). The ages of patients with sequelae ranged from 2 to 74 years (mean and median, 38 years); duration of follow-up ranged from 1 to 18 years (mean, 11 years). The mean lengths of hospitalization for patients with and without long-term sequelae were 47 days and 20 days, respectively (P less then .05).
Long-term neurological sequelae included paraparesis; hearing loss; peripheral neuropathy; bladder and bowel incontinence; cerebellar, vestibular, and motor dysfunction; and language disorders. Nonneurological sequelae consisted of disability from limb amputation and scrotal pain following cutaneous necrosis. These data suggest that significant long-term morbidity is common in patients with severe illness due to RMSF.
........
If you search 'Persisting RMSF following treatment', you will find more.
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
These quotes do not say the Rocky Mtn Sp.Fever itself persisted, only the effects thereof.
"that persisted for greater than 1 year"--- "that" refers back (probably) to "complications", not to the immediate antecedent "infection", although the writer has not followed the rule for ironclad grammatical clarity.
Write clearly, everyone!
----Polly Polygonum
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
If you search the title to read the article, it is more informative re: persisting symptoms. I am limited in time, or would have searched for more studies.
Please keep in mind, that 'Symptoms of Unknown Origin' have been described in previously treated Bb and other TBD infections as well...
and we know all about that controversy, right?
When interpreting any study... I believe any reader usually derives varying conclusions. Not to mention the authors themselves. We ALL have biases.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Let me try to dig them up, and I will post a bit later on.