I know I'm beating a deadhorse here... but supplementing your adrenal glands, especially during treatment, is a MUST!!! (Most of you know this)
You will not recover without your adrenals on your side.
Here are some GREAT clips of Dr. Michael Borkin, NMD. He is a pioneer in hormone and electrolyte research. He specializes in hormone and electrolyte testing and balancing.
I can't help but notice that the symptoms that we associate with Borellia, or Babs, or Bart MIRROR those of fatigued adrenal glands.
When you get some free time listen to what this man says about your adrenals. He spends hours and hours teaching students/doctors... because that's how important he knows the adrenals are.
Adrenal Support!!!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Agreed.
Adrenal Support is vital. That's clearly pointed out in just about every lyme protocol - and for good reason. But many just zoom past it. Backing up and really being sure adrenal support is in place can make a world of difference.
Pushing too hard or taking things that offer a big "boost" of energy - rather than "support" - can be detrimental, too.
Adrenal exhaustion can also be at the root of depression. Supporting the adrenals can be a wonderful help to mood dysfunctions of all kinds.
For those new to lyme, the basics start with reading Burrascano's self-care suggestions in his guidelines and then the nutritional supplement suggestions
Also a good start is reading Singleton's book. He has a lot there to help us understand the hit the adrenals and the HPA has taken - and what can help:
This is included in Burrascano's Guidelines, but you may want to be able to refer to it separately, too:
"Pushing too hard or taking things that offer a big "boost" of energy - rather than "support" - can be detrimental, too."
AMEN
What were the differences between those supplements ? Posted by txgirl09 (Member # 21612) on :
Very interesting! I'm certainly going to work on my adrenals.
Thanks, Cane!
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
Cane, I'm thinking about buying those two creams you posted about yesterday. (if I can find someplace that sells them!)
Did you get any bloodwork or saliva testing before using those? What were the results?
I'm hoping it would be okay for me to add them without getting any tests for DHEA, etc.
I did the saliva cortisol testing, but it wasn't that messed up. It was a little low first thing in the morning, but it went high at noon, then dropped some the rest of the day.
However, I still think I should work on it, because I have a very messed up sleep schedule, and bad fatigue.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
I got a cortisol saliva test.
My adrenals were shot.
Low cortisol levels (like most of you)
- When we first got hit with Lyme and felt sick there's a good chance we had high levels of cortisol (fight or flight mode)... but eventually as the disease takes a toll the adrenals get too fatigued and cortisol is very low.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- This is an excellent book:
Many libraries carry this book and you can read 95 customer reviews here (average 4.5 star out of 5) AND see inside the book:
~ James L. Wilson, ND, DC, PhD, Johnathan V. Wright, MD
Only $10.17 -- And qualifies for free shipping with a total $25. Purchase at Amazon
-
Posted by Cold Feet (Member # 9882) on :
Cane, wow, meaty work, thanks. I'll review this link more carefully tomorrow.
Posted by johnnywv (Member # 23012) on :
ok, I'm lazy tonight. what kind of supplement do we take for the adrenals?
Posted by txgirl09 (Member # 21612) on :
Keebler -- I do have the Lyme Disease Solution book and I've been re-reading about the importance of adrenals!
i wish i would have started supporting my adrenals earlier...
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
I was given ashwaganda for adrenal support. I'll have to get some more as I ran out and as you said, went on the supplement everything else.
Posted by massman (Member # 18116) on :
johnnywv - anything as long as adrenal is in the name. And of course here, the cheaper the better. Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Yes Massman and only at Wal-Mart in the clearance cart too,
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
neff,
ashwaganda is good... but even better in conjunction with other minerals/herbs/vitamins
Posted by pas (Member # 22416) on :
IsoCort is a dessicated adrenal glandular made in New Zealand (very good quality control standards there - the cows are fed only organic food and never receive hormones, etc).
Apparently each pellet naturally contains at least 2.5mgs of actual cortisol...
The only thing is that it contains lactose and echinacea...careful if you're sensitive to either of these!
I take Nutricology adrenal glandulars in addition to Hydrocortisone. Also lots of B vits (esp. B5, B6, B12) and Vit C - the adrenals need these.
In fact, there have been documented cases of adrenal insufficiency actually caused by severe B vitamin deficiency. For those people, the problem was reversible with replacement therapy!!
Posted by Limeaid (Member # 22357) on :
Wow, great information! I am definitely going to try some of this stuff. Thanks.
Posted by Trevor1 (Member # 15489) on :
You know i've been on and off heavy amounts of supplements over the past 4 years i've been sick. I have never really built up hope for any of them, or never really noticed any "significant" improvement from a supplement.
So recently, i've only been taking fish oil, D and b12. But after reading this thread I went over Burrascano's guidelines for supplements and i've taken almost everyone on there.
I am considering starting more back up, but the cost to benefit ratio has yet to seem worth it.
Has anyone seen actual success with the Researched Nutrionials products? and are they pretty pricey?
thanks,
Posted by Trevor1 (Member # 15489) on :
up
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
I know some people do well on the NT Factor Energy or their D-Ribose. I personally know people that say these helped at least some.
Neither of those helped me, though. But, it's possible I didn't give the NT Factor Energy long enough.
I usually just stick to whatever supplements actually seem to help something, whether they are pricey or cheap. I do try a lot, but luckily some things do end up helping. I would say 90% of them don't, however.
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
This is a bit more informative as to what we can do to actually address the issue.
I don't personally care for that guy in all those vids cane, no offense, he's a bit arrogant for me and doesn't really go into what practically can be done (at least not that I saw)
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Ya, he's not really talking to much about what can be done (although he references supplements/vitamins vs synthetics)
He's just teaching med students what to look for as far as blood work goes. And how the body truly works.
Posted by massman (Member # 18116) on :
LOL as one of the docs at the youtube reference is a bud. Talked to him about 4 weeks ago. He is about 2000 miles away from MA.
Posted by j_liz (Member # 20496) on :
Has anybody read Dr. Brownstein's book, "Salt Your Way to Health"? In it he says you need unrefined salt for adrenal fatigue. He lists other sups, too, but says how important unrefined salt is to reverse the situation.
liz
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
j_liz
Ya I've read that a lot. I put sea salt on everything.
I get my iodine from the kelp that is in my supplements.
Posted by massman (Member # 18116) on :
So will any of these supps rebuild the adrenals so you wont have to take supps for them forever Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
mass,
The idea behind supporting them is that they will rebuild on there own.
Obviously this is going to take some time.
I'm retesting my adrenals/thyroid in about 3 months.
She told me that we'll be able to gauge how far along I'm moving.
But it can take awhile to rebuild something that has been DESTROYED for so long.
The benefits though are that you can avoid the complications that come with taking synthetics (and there are quite a bit)
Posted by massman (Member # 18116) on :
"they will rebuild on there own." If supported correctly.
Products from glandulars (esp. if whole gland) will not rebuild. They need a blueprint plus the right parts available to rebuild.
How + why is this doc a pioneer ? Others, to my knowledge, have been working in this area for over 80 years.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
She's not a pioneer.
She simply does the OBVIOUS things. (something this country's medical community has lost complete sight of)
Hmmmm... I could
A) use supplements, diet, exercise, sleep to support my adrenal glands in an effort to have them rebuild (get back to functioning properly)
B) use man-made cortisone and DO IT for my adrenal glands (rendering them useless)
C) use porcine glandulars not knowing anything about the authenticity of the product or the negative effects that may come up (example: armour OUT OF PRODUCTS)
I think you see the obvious answer.
And how do I know choice A works... because I'm walking proof.
In just 1 months time I've done a complete 180 in terms of sleep patterns, energy levels, mood, etc.
I was an insomniac for 8+ years (I've tried every remedy in the book. Everyone)
Nothing worked. Why? You can't fight your adrenals. Take all the sleep meds you want for as long as you want... if your adrenals are shot.. it's irrelevant.
I have a long ways to go.... but I'm on the right path. The natural way.
-To each his own though-
Posted by elley0531 (Member # 9434) on :
So if sups represent the right parts, where does the blueprint come from or vice versa? I am waiting on some books and trying to get a good grasp on this because apparently my adrenals have been failing for up to a few years maybe longer. I ignored most of the physical stuff and the mental stuff hit me like a ton of bricks followed by being put in the hospital for a week with salt levels that won't stay put and severe vomiting and mini seizures while sleeping. I am on hyrdocortisone right now because I need to be, not willing to die until i fully understand someway that I can really rebuild these.
It'll be nice to see my new LLMD, but there is no sure bet that he will have a lot of knowledge on this so I am trying to research on my own. I am looking into sups that others have recommended and am on the typical vitains and fish oil yadda yadda.
I am very depressed and have transient anxiety mostly at night which is apparently common to my adrenal condition. I know both of these are not me and are caused by the illness...I guess I'm just trying to figue it out haha.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
elley,
First thing you can do is a saliva cortisol test.
It will give you a good indication of your adrenal work in a normal day.
But I recommend finding a naturalist who knows what they are doing.
Posted by massman (Member # 18116) on :
elley - most supps cannot provide correct parts as most supps are chemical fractions of vitamins.
Fraction = not all the parts are there. Building parts come from.....(drum rolll please)actual FOOD.
Good blueprints are essentially RNA / DNA factors, not the whole glandulars. "New Dimensions in Herbal Healing" is a book you may want to check out. Author is Jack Tips PhD, ND.
I am realizing here that many do not read actual books and get somewhat annoyed when I suggest taking the time to invest in one's health that way.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Yes, adjusting diet is very important to adrenal support.
Learn about real salt too.
Posted by elley0531 (Member # 9434) on :
I will add it to my list. I'd spend all my time reading books if I were allowed.
Also-food is my number one medicine and has been for a while. I am always trying to tweak it as best I can.
I read Cures They Don't Want You to Know About book about 4 years ago-and while the Kevin guy who wrote it sits wrong with me in a preachy sort of way, I agreed with a lot of it and have been practicing those diet suggestions in increasing numbers.
I have alot of things on my list of food changes to make and have no doubt they will help. They tend to go against some commonly thought of "good food practices" but from what books I have read and also Mercola I feel a good amount is common sense.
In the meantime I take tons of green superfoods and my b vitamins and mutlivitamins are all food based. I have noticed improvement since taking them.
Thanks for the recommendation.
Posted by elley0531 (Member # 9434) on :
on salt-I have used nothing but celtic unrefined sea salt for about 3 years.
Posted by pas (Member # 22416) on :
I'd like to reiterate the fact that there is a difference between adrenal fatigue and frank Addison's disease.
Elley, you may have done this already, but I would strongly suggest joining an Addison's support group. Please feel free to PM me if you'd like...
Leigh
Posted by elley0531 (Member # 9434) on :
I will. This is full fledged Addison's according to my docs.
Posted by Nancy2 (Member # 95) on :
Which is better.........saliva test or blood test for cortisol levels?
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
saliva for sure
Posted by Lymeorsomething (Member # 16359) on :
The 24-hr urine test is a lot easier for collection purposes, but some swear by the saliva. I've had docs tell me different things.
Blood serum test will only give you a narrow view of the larger picture (but is a cheap test if you have to run yourself).
Posted by Nancy2 (Member # 95) on :
How about the best lab and are there some that do testing without doctors lab slip?
Posted by nspiker (Member # 22824) on :
They use LapCorp for general tests and specialty labs for more complex testing...
Directlabs offers adrenal saliva tests through NeuroScience, Metametrix, and Sabre Science (possibly others)...
One of the best labs for adrenal saliva is Genova.
Posted by Nancy2 (Member # 95) on :
Great........thanks so much for the information. I have a friend that also has Lyme, and this might be just "what the doctor ordered"!
Nancy
Posted by pas (Member # 22416) on :
There is also www.MyMedLab.com - I haven't used it personally but know others that have. From what I understand, once you sign up you can order your own tests through LabCorp.
Saliva is good b/c it measures the "free" instead of "total" cortisol. But there is also the option of having "free" cortisol measured in blood, which is equally accurate. This can be done through any major lab.
Total cortisol is dependent on lots of other things, including binding globulins and other hormones - this is why "free" is better.
If you really suspect a major problem with pituitary/adrenals, the only gold standard is the ACTH stimulation test.
This is not usually performed at a lab, though, and most docs won't order it unless there is hard evidence of low cortisol to begin with.
Always measure cortisol in the morning (or multiple times/day if possible).
Posted by Nancy2 (Member # 95) on :
Thank you again! Lot of helpful information! It is appreciated!
Nancy
Posted by elley0531 (Member # 9434) on :
Yes, the ACTH stim test is the second one I got done and my cortisol failed to raise even slightly.
I will be getting another cortisol test meauring throughout the day, but my test that was done fasting and in the AM was also way too low and my ACTH was through the roof.
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
Who here has gotten their DHEA tested?
I would like to know if mine is low or not, because I would like to try supplementing with it.
Wondering what lab I should get tested through, etc.
I've done the cortisol testing, but didn't do any testing of DHEA.
Posted by CherylSue (Member # 13077) on :
I just finished reading THE POTBELLY SYNDROME, and the authors blame too much cortisol from infections as causing weight gain around the middle and lowered immunity. It gives an alternate viewpoint.
From personal experience on Isocort, I've gained weight, but it did give me extra energy. I've had to wean from it, however, because it makes me too nervous, jittery, etc.
I started Isocort when I had a bad cold. My cold lasted 3 long weeks. I ased my LLMD about it, and she said is should have helped it. I think the Isocort prolonged it, but I did have energy to go to work.
I think there is a fine line we are walking here. Maybe, our adrenals need a little help, but too much cortisol can be very counterproductive.
I would hope your MD would not follow a pat formula, but gauge your dosage to your body, maybe starting slow and seeing how much your body really needs.
IMO, CherylSue
P.S. Isocort is from New Zealand sheep glands, not cows.
Posted by j_liz (Member # 20496) on :
Hoosier, I had my DHEA checked and it was low, so LLMD has me on sups. It was done with a simple blood test for hormones. I will be getting it again soon.
liz
Posted by pas (Member # 22416) on :
Hoosier,
I've had my DHEA-S checked a couple of times through normal labs (LabCorp, Quest) and it was undetectable. This is to be expected with Addison's. (also testosterone and progesterone are low, since those are made in the adrenals too).
Make sure to test your DHEA-S level prior to supplementing, so that you have a baseline and don't over-replace (which can be dangerous).
Leigh
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
Thanks! I'll ask my doctor to test me.
If I don't have full-on Addison's, would the Labcorp or Quest tests show abnormal?
Or should I go with an alternative lab?
Though I will probably take the Labcorp test first, but wondering if it comes back normal, if anything else is more sensitive.
Posted by j_liz (Member # 20496) on :
We used Labcorp and my test showed it was just low. I don't have Addison's, so I would say, yes, if it is just low it will still show it.
I imagine Quest would, too.
liz
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
By low, do you mean out of range?
Thank you!
Posted by j_liz (Member # 20496) on :
Yes.
Posted by pas (Member # 22416) on :
A regular lab should show it regardless of whether you have Addison's, and your doc can help interpret whether it's optimal for you. Just make sure it's DHEA-S and not just DHEA.
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
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