canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
I know I'm beating a deadhorse here... but supplementing your adrenal glands, especially during treatment, is a MUST!!! (Most of you know this)
You will not recover without your adrenals on your side.
Here are some GREAT clips of Dr. Michael Borkin, NMD. He is a pioneer in hormone and electrolyte research. He specializes in hormone and electrolyte testing and balancing.
I can't help but notice that the symptoms that we associate with Borellia, or Babs, or Bart MIRROR those of fatigued adrenal glands.
When you get some free time listen to what this man says about your adrenals. He spends hours and hours teaching students/doctors... because that's how important he knows the adrenals are.
Adrenal Support!!!
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Agreed.
Adrenal Support is vital. That's clearly pointed out in just about every lyme protocol - and for good reason. But many just zoom past it. Backing up and really being sure adrenal support is in place can make a world of difference.
Pushing too hard or taking things that offer a big "boost" of energy - rather than "support" - can be detrimental, too.
Adrenal exhaustion can also be at the root of depression. Supporting the adrenals can be a wonderful help to mood dysfunctions of all kinds.
For those new to lyme, the basics start with reading Burrascano's self-care suggestions in his guidelines and then the nutritional supplement suggestions
Also a good start is reading Singleton's book. He has a lot there to help us understand the hit the adrenals and the HPA has taken - and what can help:
This is included in Burrascano's Guidelines, but you may want to be able to refer to it separately, too:
posted
Very interesting! I'm certainly going to work on my adrenals.
Thanks, Cane!
Posts: 490 | From TX- Go Cowboys! | Registered: Aug 2009
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Cane, I'm thinking about buying those two creams you posted about yesterday. (if I can find someplace that sells them!)
Did you get any bloodwork or saliva testing before using those? What were the results?
I'm hoping it would be okay for me to add them without getting any tests for DHEA, etc.
I did the saliva cortisol testing, but it wasn't that messed up. It was a little low first thing in the morning, but it went high at noon, then dropped some the rest of the day.
However, I still think I should work on it, because I have a very messed up sleep schedule, and bad fatigue.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
I got a cortisol saliva test.
My adrenals were shot.
Low cortisol levels (like most of you)
- When we first got hit with Lyme and felt sick there's a good chance we had high levels of cortisol (fight or flight mode)... but eventually as the disease takes a toll the adrenals get too fatigued and cortisol is very low.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- This is an excellent book:
Many libraries carry this book and you can read 95 customer reviews here (average 4.5 star out of 5) AND see inside the book:
posted
Cane, wow, meaty work, thanks. I'll review this link more carefully tomorrow.
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Keebler -- I do have the Lyme Disease Solution book and I've been re-reading about the importance of adrenals!
i wish i would have started supporting my adrenals earlier...
Posts: 490 | From TX- Go Cowboys! | Registered: Aug 2009
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nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157
posted
I was given ashwaganda for adrenal support. I'll have to get some more as I ran out and as you said, went on the supplement everything else.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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massman
Unregistered
posted
johnnywv - anything as long as adrenal is in the name. And of course here, the cheaper the better.
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Yes Massman and only at Wal-Mart in the clearance cart too,
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
neff,
ashwaganda is good... but even better in conjunction with other minerals/herbs/vitamins
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
IsoCort is a dessicated adrenal glandular made in New Zealand (very good quality control standards there - the cows are fed only organic food and never receive hormones, etc).
Apparently each pellet naturally contains at least 2.5mgs of actual cortisol...
The only thing is that it contains lactose and echinacea...careful if you're sensitive to either of these!
I take Nutricology adrenal glandulars in addition to Hydrocortisone. Also lots of B vits (esp. B5, B6, B12) and Vit C - the adrenals need these.
In fact, there have been documented cases of adrenal insufficiency actually caused by severe B vitamin deficiency. For those people, the problem was reversible with replacement therapy!!
Posts: 95 | From Maryland | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
Wow, great information! I am definitely going to try some of this stuff. Thanks.
Posts: 84 | From Seattle, WA | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
You know i've been on and off heavy amounts of supplements over the past 4 years i've been sick. I have never really built up hope for any of them, or never really noticed any "significant" improvement from a supplement.
So recently, i've only been taking fish oil, D and b12. But after reading this thread I went over Burrascano's guidelines for supplements and i've taken almost everyone on there.
I am considering starting more back up, but the cost to benefit ratio has yet to seem worth it.
Has anyone seen actual success with the Researched Nutrionials products? and are they pretty pricey?
thanks,
Posts: 59 | From Arizona | Registered: May 2008
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posted
up
Posts: 59 | From Arizona | Registered: May 2008
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
I know some people do well on the NT Factor Energy or their D-Ribose. I personally know people that say these helped at least some.
Neither of those helped me, though. But, it's possible I didn't give the NT Factor Energy long enough.
I usually just stick to whatever supplements actually seem to help something, whether they are pricey or cheap. I do try a lot, but luckily some things do end up helping. I would say 90% of them don't, however.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
This is a bit more informative as to what we can do to actually address the issue.
I don't personally care for that guy in all those vids cane, no offense, he's a bit arrogant for me and doesn't really go into what practically can be done (at least not that I saw)
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Ya, he's not really talking to much about what can be done (although he references supplements/vitamins vs synthetics)
He's just teaching med students what to look for as far as blood work goes. And how the body truly works.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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massman
Unregistered
posted
LOL as one of the docs at the youtube reference is a bud. Talked to him about 4 weeks ago. He is about 2000 miles away from MA.
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posted
Has anybody read Dr. Brownstein's book, "Salt Your Way to Health"? In it he says you need unrefined salt for adrenal fatigue. He lists other sups, too, but says how important unrefined salt is to reverse the situation.
canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
j_liz
Ya I've read that a lot. I put sea salt on everything.
I get my iodine from the kelp that is in my supplements.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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massman
Unregistered
posted
So will any of these supps rebuild the adrenals so you wont have to take supps for them forever
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
mass,
The idea behind supporting them is that they will rebuild on there own.
Obviously this is going to take some time.
I'm retesting my adrenals/thyroid in about 3 months.
She told me that we'll be able to gauge how far along I'm moving.
But it can take awhile to rebuild something that has been DESTROYED for so long.
The benefits though are that you can avoid the complications that come with taking synthetics (and there are quite a bit)
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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massman
Unregistered
posted
"they will rebuild on there own." If supported correctly.
Products from glandulars (esp. if whole gland) will not rebuild. They need a blueprint plus the right parts available to rebuild.
How + why is this doc a pioneer ? Others, to my knowledge, have been working in this area for over 80 years.
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
She's not a pioneer.
She simply does the OBVIOUS things. (something this country's medical community has lost complete sight of)
Hmmmm... I could
A) use supplements, diet, exercise, sleep to support my adrenal glands in an effort to have them rebuild (get back to functioning properly)
B) use man-made cortisone and DO IT for my adrenal glands (rendering them useless)
C) use porcine glandulars not knowing anything about the authenticity of the product or the negative effects that may come up (example: armour OUT OF PRODUCTS)
I think you see the obvious answer.
And how do I know choice A works... because I'm walking proof.
In just 1 months time I've done a complete 180 in terms of sleep patterns, energy levels, mood, etc.
I was an insomniac for 8+ years (I've tried every remedy in the book. Everyone)
Nothing worked. Why? You can't fight your adrenals. Take all the sleep meds you want for as long as you want... if your adrenals are shot.. it's irrelevant.
I have a long ways to go.... but I'm on the right path. The natural way.
-To each his own though-
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
So if sups represent the right parts, where does the blueprint come from or vice versa? I am waiting on some books and trying to get a good grasp on this because apparently my adrenals have been failing for up to a few years maybe longer. I ignored most of the physical stuff and the mental stuff hit me like a ton of bricks followed by being put in the hospital for a week with salt levels that won't stay put and severe vomiting and mini seizures while sleeping. I am on hyrdocortisone right now because I need to be, not willing to die until i fully understand someway that I can really rebuild these.
It'll be nice to see my new LLMD, but there is no sure bet that he will have a lot of knowledge on this so I am trying to research on my own. I am looking into sups that others have recommended and am on the typical vitains and fish oil yadda yadda.
I am very depressed and have transient anxiety mostly at night which is apparently common to my adrenal condition. I know both of these are not me and are caused by the illness...I guess I'm just trying to figue it out haha.
Posts: 594 | From NJ/NY | Registered: Jun 2006
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
elley,
First thing you can do is a saliva cortisol test.
It will give you a good indication of your adrenal work in a normal day.
But I recommend finding a naturalist who knows what they are doing.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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massman
Unregistered
posted
elley - most supps cannot provide correct parts as most supps are chemical fractions of vitamins.
Fraction = not all the parts are there. Building parts come from.....(drum rolll please)actual FOOD.
Good blueprints are essentially RNA / DNA factors, not the whole glandulars. "New Dimensions in Herbal Healing" is a book you may want to check out. Author is Jack Tips PhD, ND.
I am realizing here that many do not read actual books and get somewhat annoyed when I suggest taking the time to invest in one's health that way.
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Yes, adjusting diet is very important to adrenal support.
Learn about real salt too.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
I will add it to my list. I'd spend all my time reading books if I were allowed.
Also-food is my number one medicine and has been for a while. I am always trying to tweak it as best I can.
I read Cures They Don't Want You to Know About book about 4 years ago-and while the Kevin guy who wrote it sits wrong with me in a preachy sort of way, I agreed with a lot of it and have been practicing those diet suggestions in increasing numbers.
I have alot of things on my list of food changes to make and have no doubt they will help. They tend to go against some commonly thought of "good food practices" but from what books I have read and also Mercola I feel a good amount is common sense.
In the meantime I take tons of green superfoods and my b vitamins and mutlivitamins are all food based. I have noticed improvement since taking them.
Thanks for the recommendation.
Posts: 594 | From NJ/NY | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
I will. This is full fledged Addison's according to my docs.
Posts: 594 | From NJ/NY | Registered: Jun 2006
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Nancy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 95
posted
Which is better.........saliva test or blood test for cortisol levels?
Posts: 1487 | From New England | Registered: Oct 2000
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
saliva for sure
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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Lymeorsomething
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16359
posted
The 24-hr urine test is a lot easier for collection purposes, but some swear by the saliva. I've had docs tell me different things.
Blood serum test will only give you a narrow view of the larger picture (but is a cheap test if you have to run yourself).
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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Nancy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 95
posted
How about the best lab and are there some that do testing without doctors lab slip?
Posts: 1487 | From New England | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
There is also www.MyMedLab.com - I haven't used it personally but know others that have. From what I understand, once you sign up you can order your own tests through LabCorp.
Saliva is good b/c it measures the "free" instead of "total" cortisol. But there is also the option of having "free" cortisol measured in blood, which is equally accurate. This can be done through any major lab.
Total cortisol is dependent on lots of other things, including binding globulins and other hormones - this is why "free" is better.
If you really suspect a major problem with pituitary/adrenals, the only gold standard is the ACTH stimulation test.
This is not usually performed at a lab, though, and most docs won't order it unless there is hard evidence of low cortisol to begin with.
Always measure cortisol in the morning (or multiple times/day if possible).
Posts: 95 | From Maryland | Registered: Sep 2009
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Nancy2
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Member # 95
posted
Thank you again! Lot of helpful information! It is appreciated!
Nancy
Posts: 1487 | From New England | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Yes, the ACTH stim test is the second one I got done and my cortisol failed to raise even slightly.
I will be getting another cortisol test meauring throughout the day, but my test that was done fasting and in the AM was also way too low and my ACTH was through the roof.
Posts: 594 | From NJ/NY | Registered: Jun 2006
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Who here has gotten their DHEA tested?
I would like to know if mine is low or not, because I would like to try supplementing with it.
Wondering what lab I should get tested through, etc.
I've done the cortisol testing, but didn't do any testing of DHEA.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077
posted
I just finished reading THE POTBELLY SYNDROME, and the authors blame too much cortisol from infections as causing weight gain around the middle and lowered immunity. It gives an alternate viewpoint.
From personal experience on Isocort, I've gained weight, but it did give me extra energy. I've had to wean from it, however, because it makes me too nervous, jittery, etc.
I started Isocort when I had a bad cold. My cold lasted 3 long weeks. I ased my LLMD about it, and she said is should have helped it. I think the Isocort prolonged it, but I did have energy to go to work.
I think there is a fine line we are walking here. Maybe, our adrenals need a little help, but too much cortisol can be very counterproductive.
I would hope your MD would not follow a pat formula, but gauge your dosage to your body, maybe starting slow and seeing how much your body really needs.
IMO, CherylSue
P.S. Isocort is from New Zealand sheep glands, not cows.
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Hoosier, I had my DHEA checked and it was low, so LLMD has me on sups. It was done with a simple blood test for hormones. I will be getting it again soon.
I've had my DHEA-S checked a couple of times through normal labs (LabCorp, Quest) and it was undetectable. This is to be expected with Addison's. (also testosterone and progesterone are low, since those are made in the adrenals too).
Make sure to test your DHEA-S level prior to supplementing, so that you have a baseline and don't over-replace (which can be dangerous).
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Thanks! I'll ask my doctor to test me.
If I don't have full-on Addison's, would the Labcorp or Quest tests show abnormal?
Or should I go with an alternative lab?
Though I will probably take the Labcorp test first, but wondering if it comes back normal, if anything else is more sensitive.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
A regular lab should show it regardless of whether you have Addison's, and your doc can help interpret whether it's optimal for you. Just make sure it's DHEA-S and not just DHEA.
Posts: 95 | From Maryland | Registered: Sep 2009
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Okay, thanks. Will do.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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