My husband's best friend (age 41) just went to the ER. Looks like he had a heart attack. We are so upset. Does anyone know much about this in relation to Atrial Fibrillation and Lyme? The reason I ask is because this group knows so much more than the docs out there. Any insight would be very much appreciated.
Refresher on his situation: He has been having terrible symptoms with Atrial Fibrillation. He is on Coumadin (blood thinner) and Flecanide (anti arrhythmia).
Upon our urging, he finally went to a LLMD about 2 1/2 months ago and was diagnosed with Lyme, Babs and Bart. He is on Mepron, Zith, Bactrim, and Nystatin.
Some Lymenet friends suggested certain meds can trigger more Afib symptoms.
Can meds trigger enough symptoms to provoke a heart attach?
Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions you can share.
Thanks so much for your time, Tammy
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
Zithromax can defintiely trigger PVC's and PAC's. Hubby has had these show on some EKG's and then they go away and his EKG may be perfectly normal. His heart palpitations started with the first dose of zith.
Lyme especially is known to cause heart block. Bartonella is more likely to cause endocarditis.
I do know that some lyme patients do require pacemakers -- think this is usually due to heart block.
Bea Seibert
Posted by momlyme (Member # 27775) on :
Tammy, I have no idea... but I am praying for your friend.
Posted by 17hens (Member # 23747) on :
Tammy, try PMing Triathletelymie. She's had experience w/ major heart stuff before diagnosis. Maybe she has something helpful to share.
I'll be praying for your friend.
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
Here is one journal article.
Schweiz Med Wochenschr. 1988 Mar 12;118(10):358-62.
[Lyme carditis]. [Article in German]
Ballmer PE, Hany A.
Medizinische Klinik, Kantonsspital Winterthur.
Abstract
In 1980 a large series of patients with Lyme carditis was first described. The most frequent symptom was atrioventricular block, more unusual were other arrhythmias, nonspecific ECG alterations, cardiomegaly and pericarditis.
We report the case of a 51-year-old man with Lyme carditis which presented as atrial fibrillation and atrioventricular block 2 degrees. Gallium-67 scan was negative. The arrhythmias ceased during therapy with doxycycline. The clinical findings, diagnosis and therapy of Lyme carditis are discussed.
PMID: 2966436 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by BoxerMom (Member # 25251) on :
Your friend is in my thoughts.
Many, many patients have herxes or med reactions in early treatment that send them to the hospital.
These episodes diminish with treatment. And we learn what meds we can tolerate.
He should contact his LLMD.
Keep us posted.
With love, BoxerMom
Posted by Tammy N. (Member # 26835) on :
Thanks, friends. Hens - Thanks, I will PM triath.
Does anyone know if reactions to meds or herxes can actually cause a heart attack?
Posted by lululymemom (Member # 26405) on :
We found that Zith would worsen heart symptoms. Biaxin worked much better but everyone is different. It is listed as a side effect of the medication.
Posted by elizzza811 (Member # 24713) on :
Global Television video shows how microwave radiation from Wi Fi router causes significant changes to heart function: http://www.youtube.com/safeschool#p/u/3/KN7VetsCR2I Posted by psr1 (Member # 22957) on :
He needs to see a top electrophysiologist. Afib in and of itself is potentially catastrophic for hearts over long periods of time (causes enlargement, and heart failure) and only doctors who specialize in this (and only an expert subset of these) are equipped to address it. All the cardiologists/electrophysiologists I have seen for my afib say it is not related to Lyme, but I don't believe it. PM me if you want more info.
Posted by psr1 (Member # 22957) on :
Tammy your mailbox is full - couldn't send that way: Hi Tammy: My doctor is in Philly - he's part of one of the
best practices in the world (at UPenn). I
finally had an ablation for my afib, though I
think if I had known I had Lyme I could probably
have controlled it and not gotten to the point of
needing the ablation. Although most mainstream
ducks will tell you that afib is benign, the
truth is that over time it causes heart failure
(the atria enlarge). So check out afibbers.net
and a-fib.com. Both are extremely reputable and
run by patients who had to get smart about their
conditions cause the doctors were not helping
(sound familiar??) On afibbers.net there is a
woman named Jackie who is just terrific: you wll
find her easily on the board.
Let me know how it goes- Pam
Posted by lou (Member # 81) on :
When newly diagnosed patients start treatment for lyme, the herx makes all the symptoms worse. In people long undiagnosed with a high germ load, a herx can kill. It doesn't happen to everyone, obviously, but this is something to take seriously. It might require starting out at lower doses to reduce the germ load and prevent a major herx in people who might be in danger from this.
Not everyone is, obviously, and herxes are really frightening to newbies even when they are not dangerous.
Tickborne diseases do affect the heart. Lots of articles on this. Sometimes people have a pacemaker installed and then find out they had lyme and needed treatment for it, not the pacemaker.
If he has lyme, etc, that is probably the cause and most of the time patients like this do not need to be seen by cardiologists who are clueless about lyme and the heart. I went to one of these for testing, and although the test results were useful, his opinions were not. I also ended up in the ER at 4 am after more than 30 minutes of scarey heart rhythms. These cleared up when I got to the ER, so naturally the doc concluded it was a panic attack, and had never heard of a herx.
This experience and others brought me to the conclusion that most specialists are only good for testing, to document the symptoms, but useless for treatment and diagnosis.
Posted by lululymemom (Member # 26405) on :
I agree with Lou.. Lyme can cause some major heart symptoms. I ended up 6 hours in the ER with a heart rate that was too fast to register on their monitor.. I was told to see an electrophysiology cardiologist..
Well my doctor sent me to a regular cardiologist who told me these were isolated incidents, didn't do anything for me and just told me to watch and see how it goes.
This was before I knew I had lyme. Luckily for me these episodes became fewer and fewer. Now I take magnesium and enzymes and my heart feels normal.
Posted by lou (Member # 81) on :
Here is the first page of two pages of journal articles listed on pubmed: 1. Lyme carditis: a reversible cause of complete atrioventricular block.
Bhattacharya IS, Dweck M, Francis M.
J R Coll Physicians Edinb. 2010 Jun;40(2):121-2.PMID: 21125053 [PubMed - in process]Related citations
2.
[Acute atrioventricular block in chronic Lyme disease].
Am Heart J. 1991 Nov;122(5):1449-55. Review.PMID: 1951010 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Related citations
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Hawthorn & Cayenne can REALLY help his condition.
Marc @ Lymestrategies credits it to his heart health (he had similar issues before being diagnosed with Lyme)
Posted by BoxerMom (Member # 25251) on :
Canefan is right. Hawthorn and Cayenne are excellent herbs for the heart.
Some with Lyme become allergic to the nightshades, so be careful with the Cayenne.
The heart needs Magnesium to function. We are ALL deficient in Magnesium.
Posted by psr1 (Member # 22957) on :
One thing to remember with afib is that whatever its cause, the longer it goes on the more damage it does. It is not a relatively benign arrythmia like pvcs and pacs, or sinus tachycardia. The afib needs to be controlled and addressed independent of its relationship to Lyme,
Posted by Tammy N. (Member # 26835) on :
Thank you so much for all of your input. Sometimes I really don't know what I would do without my Lymenet friends.
Now for the good news -- Our friend just found out it was not a heart attack after all!!! Last night and all day long they had our friend believing it was. My husband was visiting with him when the doctor came in just a short while ago with the good news. Answered prayers!
Thanks so much, Tammy
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by psr1: [QB] One thing to remember with afib is that whatever its cause, the longer it goes on the more damage it does. It is not a relatively benign arrythmia like pvcs and pacs, or sinus tachycardia. The afib needs to be controlled and addressed independent of its relationship to Lyme,
Amen.
Tammy.. so glad for the answered prayers! They don't know if it's a heart attack until the bloodwork comes back and that can take more than an hour.
Posted by Tammy N. (Member # 26835) on :
Lymetoo -- It should only take about an hour for the bloodwork to confirm heart attack or not?? Then what a crying shame it was that the hospital last night told him it looked like a heart attack, and it wasn't until this afternoon today they said it was not. What a long night and day of worry....
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I know when they have checked me I have found out within an hour or so. It does take awhile .. Now.. Seems like I remember that they run an initial test first, then more comprehensive ones that may take longer. (MAYBE the next day... but I've never had that happen to me.)
Tell him to ask why it took them so long to tell him!!
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Before diagnosed with Lyme I was rushed to hospital twice for what I thought was heart attack (but I was 25 at time)
Heart checked out fine both times.
I asked if it was reaction to the meds I was on for H Pylori. They laughed at me and said these abx's aren't causing your heart symptoms and hallucinations.
They recommended a psychiatrist to me. lol
I searched for answers and eventually forced a Doc to test me for Lyme (I just knew - after reading about it)
tested positive and now know that that reaction with the heart symptoms was a herx from 2000mg of abx's.
No WONDER I was rushed to hospital. My FIRST accidental treatment of Lyme was 2000mg of potent abx's.
So when people say a herx can send you to the hospital - it's no lie.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Re Lyme/heart Dr. K.'s comments five years ago. I posted the research/abstract here years ago. I tried to post it here now, but not permitted.
Take care.
Posted by triathletelymie (Member # 26456) on :
Tammy...I just sent you a PM...
~tri
Posted by momlyme (Member # 27775) on :
Just got to the part in the link GiGi posted of Dr. K's seminar that mentions cardio:
quote:Lyme Carditis is a very, very serious condition. In fact, a few months ago we lost one of our patients. I had seen her only once. A young woman, late twenties, who already had the diagnosis of Lyme Carditis. Cardiac arrest. End. Do not take Lyme Carditis lightly. I was not aware of ���.. she was clinically presenting a mild case, but with some cardiac symptoms, and I certainly took that too lightly. We recommend --- So if you have a patient with cardiac symptoms, first of all, no matter what age group they are in, always suspect Lyme Disease as a part of the picture. It can cause anything � it starts with the rhythm, problems with the heart, the different episodes of arrhythmia, irregular heartbeat, all the way to angina, or true involvement of the heart cardiac muscle. We know there is a tremendous synergistic effect with heavy metal toxicity. We know people with cardiopmyopathy that had an elevation of mercury in the heart muscle of 22,000 times higher than normal. These are young people, athletes, that have developed cardiac arrhythmias and were diagnosed with cardiac myopathy, their heart is dilated; Italian researchers did biopsies on the heart (mentions name) � she found an average of 22,000 times mercury in the heart muscles. Average. If these people get Lyme Disease, they get dramatically symptomatic and have need to be treated radically and quickly with everything that we know in order to get them through.
Great transcript (Thank you GiGi!!)... going back to read the rest!
Posted by drew (Member # 25220) on :
How is Lyme Carditis diagnosed? I have had afib a 3 times in the past 5 years (bit by a tick about 6 years ago, wasn't diagnosed with Lyme until April 2010) and get pacs/pvc's somewhat frequently. I've had peaks and valley's during my lyme treatment where I thought I was getting somewhere with them, but all in all, I still get the palpitations with some degree of regularity.
I see a Cardiologist who just says I have Lone AF and doesn't really think the Lyme is connected.
I've had Echocardiograms, ekg's, etc, but no carditis has ever been diagnosed.
I believe an ekg can show that right? Just curious how you definitively find this out.
I also echo the sentiment to check out afibbers.net, great website with tons of information on PACS/PVCS and afib.
Lastly, haven't had an episode of afib in the past 13 months, so that is great. Hopefully that streak just keeps going...
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by momlyme: Just got to the part in the link GiGi posted of Dr. K's seminar that mentions cardio:
quote:Lyme Carditis is a very, very serious condition. In fact, a few months ago we lost one of our patients. I had seen her only once. A young woman, late twenties, who already had the diagnosis of Lyme Carditis. Cardiac arrest. End. Do not take Lyme Carditis lightly. I was not aware of ���.. she was clinically presenting a mild case, but with some cardiac symptoms, and I certainly took that too lightly. We recommend --- So if you have a patient with cardiac symptoms, first of all, no matter what age group they are in, always suspect Lyme Disease as a part of the picture. It can cause anything � it starts with the rhythm, problems with the heart, the different episodes of arrhythmia, irregular heartbeat, all the way to angina, or true involvement of the heart cardiac muscle. We know there is a tremendous synergistic effect with heavy metal toxicity. We know people with cardiopmyopathy that had an elevation of mercury in the heart muscle of 22,000 times higher than normal. These are young people, athletes, that have developed cardiac arrhythmias and were diagnosed with cardiac myopathy, their heart is dilated; Italian researchers did biopsies on the heart (mentions name) � she found an average of 22,000 times mercury in the heart muscles. Average. If these people get Lyme Disease, they get dramatically symptomatic and have need to be treated radically and quickly with everything that we know in order to get them through.
Great transcript (Thank you GiGi!!)... going back to read the rest!
I think it's important for people to know, that the majority of people with Lyme Carditis do not die! Yes, it can be serious, but it can also resolve on it's own. Some do require a temporary pacemaker. Many with early infection, can develop L. Carditis as it becomes disseminated. It is usually treated with IV Abx..
Heart block is usually indicated when heartrate is lower than normal.
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