My daughter's LLMD did ART and has agreed with me that she has parasites. He attended Dr. K's seminar a couple weeks ago and is going to put her on Dr. K's parasite protocol.
If anyone is familiar with this..she hasnt started yet...but am looking for info as far as what to expect. Concerned about how she might feel on this protocol..side effects etc.
Any information would be very helpful
Thank you, Deb G
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
The earlier parasites are treated, the better. The only reaction I had on parasite treatment was that I felt tired. Makes sense, because the body is working hard to dispose of some undesirables. Think positive and expect the best. and don't forget to take binders for the release of neurotoxins. Your practitioner should advise you on what to take. Suggest you read some of the posts on parasites.
Take care.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I didn't do any parasite cleanses as per Dr. K but I have done them. Each person is different. I had a rough time of it, though.
I became quite ill & needed to be near a toilet quite often. It takes time & you have to stick with it. Headaches, nausea, fatigue, increases in pain, diarrhea are all common effects of killing parasites.
It is not fun.
Good luck!
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Also - some people have psyche effects like increased anxiety from killing parasites. It does happen!
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Deb,
Can you give some detail into what Dr K's parasite protocol is?
I've seen some old information - wanna know what the new protocol might entail
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
All Dr.K. protocols are based on the individual and tested. There is no hard and fast rule except that Dr. K. prefers the pharmaceuticals for treatment of parasites because they are more effective and do not take forever. Parasites are involved in the central nervous system, the brain, the whole body, and few antiparasiticals cross the blood brain barrier. It needs to be done in stages, addressing the different sizes of parasites, starting with the small and moving on to meds addressing larger parasites.
We treated the lungworm recently common with Lyme, involving four different medicines. Often, since individual parasite testing is not possible because of the sad lab situation, by testing the different medicines energetically = that determines what and how to use them.
If done right, severe reactions as mentioned by some are often not a problem. However, when killing parasites, environmental toxins, especially toxic metals and chemicals area also released, and the fallout has to be addressed at the same time and prepared for -- to avoid reabsorption and redistribution/resettling of the same old toxins. Finding a doctor to help guide you through it with ART or any other good testing. Emotional releases are often part of any detoxing. If we understand this, we can deal with it. I have filled many a piece of paper with "words" only to be destroyed permanently with the weekly trash. Any way you can do it helps.
Take care.
Dr. K. protocols I have posted several times talk about the meds he uses. There is no new or old Dr. K. protocol. He uses what fits the patient. My own tensor testing tells me exactly what works at a given time. If you can have it confirmed by ART or other testing, that is great.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Gigi- not everyone has the availability of seeing Dr. K, affording various doctors, pharmaceuticals, etc.
Some of us do well on our own with herbal protocols or salt/C. If a person has flukes - the effect of killing them is quite toxic no mater what the approach is.
I can see why people may want to take the anti-parasite drugs but they aren't always effective & they have side effects. A long term herbal approach does actually make sense in some cases.
There are 1000s of different parasites. The tests are poor. It's nice to have a professional to help but sometimes that isn't always the case. Many professionals have very little understanding of how to deal with parasites.
Just my 2 cents...
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
The side effects aren't from the drug - they are from the parasite die-off... I'm not sure if Dr. K recommends this drug. People can become very ill from killing the parasites if it has been a long standing issue.
----
Side effects
The majority of side-effects develop due to the release of the contents of the parasites as they are killed and the consequent host immune reaction.
The heavier the parasite burden, the heavier and more frequent the side effects normally are.
Central nervous system: Frequently occurring side effects are dizziness, headache, and malaise. Drowsiness, somnolence, fatigue, and vertigo have also been seen.
Almost all patients with cerebral cysticercosis experience CNS side effects related to the cell-death of the parasites (headache, worsening of preexisting neurological problems, seizures,arachnoiditis, and meningism).
These side effects may be life-threatening and can be reduced by coadministration of corticosteroids. It is strongly recommended that all patients with cerebral cysticercosis are hospitalized during treatment.
GI Tract: Approximately 90% of all patients have abdominal pain or cramps with or without nausea and vomiting. Diarrhea may develop and may be severe with colic. Sweating, fever, and sometimes bloody stools may occur together with diarrhea. Liver:
Asymptomatic and transient increases of liver enzymes (AST and ALT) are noted frequently (up to 27%). No case of symptomatic liver damage has ever been seen so far.
Sensitivity reactions: Urticaria, rash, pruritus and eosinophilia in White Blood Counts.
Other locations/Body as a whole: Lower back pain, myalgia, arthralgia, fever, sweating, various cardiac arrhythmias, and hypotension.
Posted by Deb133 (Member # 18544) on :
ok thanks for the input. I am quite nervous about starting this protocol anyway and now I am even more nervous.
We got the protocol today and it is something like this:
Biltricide for 2 days Ivermectin and Pyrantel Pamoate for 2 weeks Albendazole for 2 weeks Alinia for 2 weeks
She is feeling pretty good right now and we have been off abx for 3 days to get ready to do this.
I just hope and pray she doesnt get too sick on this.
Thanks for the input
Deb G
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
It's better to go through it and get rid of the parasites than to avoid it. It's probably a good idea to do an herbal follow up just to make sure all of the eggs are killed.
I'm sure your doctor will help but it's a good idea to make sure & continue to follow up so the parasites don't come back. From personal experience - I don't think I did my parasite cleanses long enough. I was using herbs. I have read that the drugs don't always get everything, though.
Doing enemas can help to get the parasites out so you (or your daughter) don't/doesn't reabsorb the toxins. I don't know how old your daughter is - so I don't know if it would be too weird. (I don't have children.)
Dr. Schulze makes a good product (Intestinal Formula #2) that absorbs stuff out of the intestinal tract. It has charcoal so you'd have to ask your doctor if it would interfere with the drugs. It's good to get any dead parasites out ASAP so your body doesn't reabsorb the toxins.
Herbal teas like mint, chamomile, ginger & green tea can be helpful.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
ps - I'm just curious... do you take everything in the protocol concurrently? or is it Biltricide for 2 days then 2 weeks for Ivermectin and Pyrantel Pamoate then the other drugs in the following 2 weeks & on-going?
I wish I did this parasite killing 15 years ago. Be happy you are doing this right off the bat. I think the parasites are a bigger part of all of this than many people realize.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
sparkle,
I may have asked you this before - But Dr schulze's #2 - how do you take it?
Schulzes has a pule method I'm not able to do (5 times a day for 5 days - thats crazy)
I want to use his #2 formula - but right now I have tog et my bowels working before I can even do that (I'm taking his IF#1)
Anyways - cleaning up the parasite die off is a HUGE deal and I made a major mistake in understimating what the die off would be like.
I'm still paying for it right now as I STINK of ammonia (urine and body odor and breath) It's becoming unbearable.
Posted by gwb (Member # 7273) on :
canefan, when I was full of ammonia I used Jernigan Neuro-Antitox II CNS/PNS Formula. It really did get the ammonia out of me. They have three different formulas that focus on different parts of your body.
Check it out and see if this is something you could use to detox. That ammonia MUST come out!
Gary
Posted by chiquita incognita (Member # 30381) on :
REgarding side effects:
Of course the nervous reaction is fully understandable.
Keep in mind, however, that the worst-case scenarios are *probably* rare. (I am not a doctor so am phrasing this carefully).
Remember that those who really get the most acutely ill are the ones with severe conditions to begin with. In a child, this would be extremely rare.
You could ask your doctor about how to go slowly with the treatment so as to get the body gradually settled in. Perhaps there are ways that your doctor can help to take the edge off of things.
FYI I too was treated for parasites while a child and never had any problem at all! No particular symptoms, just worms in the stools, plech.
I think we did homeopathics, come to think of it. Not sure what they were. They were guided by a physician, not over the counter.
Great posts here, love all the knowledge and experience!
Thank you all!
Posted by chiquita incognita (Member # 30381) on :
PS a brilliant immune system healer (med school graduate, nutritionist/herbalist by work), the late John Finnegan, said that the body would not tolerate such infections unless the immune system was run down prior to such infection.
A healthy immune system, he pointed out, will fight off infections and not tolerate any of them *for the long term*.
To balance the immune system may be part of the key in fighting off the invaders.
Posted by Terminator (Member # 27328) on :
GiGi can you please point me toward those threads containing example of what Dr K's protocol might entail?
I understand he does unique protocols for each patient, both i'm looking at what drugs he uses and examples of combinations/orders for those drugs
Posted by Deb133 (Member # 18544) on :
Sparkle7 yes the biltricide is 2 days and then Ivermectin and Pyrantel Pamoate at the same time for 2 weeks
Followed by Albendazole for 2 weeks
Followed by Alinia for 2 weeks.
The whole protocol is 6 weeks and 2 days.
I feel a little better after reading these posts. She is 17 and has actually been in treatment for 2 years.
I think the enemas are way out of the question. There is only so much a teen can tolerate and she has had to tolerate alot
From s someone who has NEVER been able to swallow a pill she has taken more things than as you all can imagine including a PICC line for 4 months with our first LLMD.
I will update as to how this goes....plus she is off all abx while doing this so that also makes me nervous not having any protection but boy does her body need a break!
Thanks for sharing all this good info!
Deb g
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Thanks Deb. I'm also curious, did your daughter get tested for any specific parasites?
I sort of favor herbs but I do sometimes think of doing a drug protocol. My last doctor was not familiar with how to treat parasites.
I may want to see if I can find a doctor who might be better at prescribing a drug protocol at some point in the future. This is why I'm asking about the protocol. Most doctors know very little about these things.
Even talking about parasites gets a look of "you must have a psyche problem" from many practitioners. We all know there's no such thing as parasites in America... (LOL)
Taking a break from abx may not be a bad thing. I wouldn't worry too much about it. She will be taking other drugs that may be a big help.
---
canefan - take the Shulze products as directed. It's good stuff. Just make sure you don't take herbs or meds at the same time. The clay & charcoal may absorb meds or herbs & make them less effective.
If you get drastically worse - discontinue it. Sometimes, the only way out is through.
For my dosing - I use a medical dowsing method to derive my personal dosage. I sent you info about that.
---
chaquita- re: To balance the immune system may be part of the key in fighting off the invaders.
This may be true but sometimes the body can be overloaded with toxins or pathogens. We have to kill them off first so the body can regain balance.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I believe these problems are caused by a high ammonia level in the brain. This belief is based on two observations. Ornithine, an ammonia reducer, induces a wonderful sleep in sleep-deprived persons. It is also observed that after killing parasites, which produce ammonia, sleep is much improved.
Our metabolism does not produce ammonia. We produce urea which is excreted by the kidneys along with water and then called urine. When we are parasitized, our metabolism is burdened with ammonia, though, made by the parasites. We have to turn it into urea in the liver and kidneys so we can excrete for them.
But this can't be done in the brain! The brain lacks an essential enzyme, ornithine curbamyl-transferase, for this bit of biochemistry. The brain was never meant to be parasitized or infected and has no defense.
Most of our parasites come from animals we associate with. We weren't meant to live with horses, cows, sheep, pigs, monkeys, guinea pigs, cats, dogs and chickens nor to come in contact with dozens more at a zoo. We do so at our own peril.
It is known that ammonia is a strong brain irritant. In fact, a person can be awakened from a coma by being made to smell ammonia "smelling salts." Omithine reacts with ammonia, mopping it up like a sponge.
Arginine, another amino acid, also reacts with ammonia, but does not put you to sleep. So there is more to insomnia than mere inability to reduce ammonia levels.
Arginine results in alertness and therefore should be used in the morning, when needed. Ornithine, given at bedtime, may take 1/2 hour to do its magic. Both are perfectly safe, since they are natural to your body, and a food constituent.
Start by taking two ornithine capsules (each 500 mg.) on the first night. Take four the next night. Take six the night after and choose the dose you like best. Sometimes it takes five days to "catch up" on everything that needs to be done for the brain and get you sleeping. Meanwhile, of course, you are planning to kill your parasites and be done with insomnia in the most effective way of all.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
sparkle,
Great info
And wow - so funny you mention the sleep
When I took ornithine for the first time - I went and toook a nap
I SLEPT DEEPER than I ever have before. I woke up after the ornithine nap thinking I completely slept through the night (cuz the sun was down) Well I looked at clock - I had only been asleep for 1 hour.
I had no clue how sleep deprived I was.
Posted by Deb133 (Member # 18544) on :
sparkle - he did no parasite testing whatsoever. It was after he came back from Dr. K's seminar that he thought OH WOW...lets look at parasites.
Honestly, when I mentioned parasites to him at several appts...he gave me "the look" like are you kidding me? Parasites?
But honestly, she did eat something in Mexico at a Mayan village that made her very sick (about 5 year ago) she rode horses up until the time she started getting sick AND we live with 2 dogs and 3 cats...
Im just so glad her LLMD is entertaining the idea of parasites and the fact that when he did ART on her that was a major issue.
Also, he is not that familiar about a parasite protocol either...but he is using Dr. K's guidelines.
We still havent started yet...pharmacy is still getting the meds in...probably start on Friday...
Thanks guys for all the info...
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Thanks again., Deb.. I know it's really difficult to get any cerdability regarding the whole concept of parasites with so many doctors. They think you are psychotic.
I had actual photos & my doctor had no clue what to say. I guess they don't teach them about this stuff in med school. You are lucky you found someone whith an open mind. Too bad it took so many appointments.
Even getting the drugs is not easy. I had a prescription for ivermectin & I couldn't find it around here. My doctor wrote the wrong dose & it was also quite expensive. I actually had to ask him for the prescription - he didn't know about doseage or anything...
I just decided to stick with the herbs after all of that. I'm not sure why parasite infections seem to be worse these days but it is for some reason. Could be due to food & people traveling to & from various countries?
I never would have imagined this would be "my" issue... It's really worth treating in any case.
Posted by abby-do (Member # 25440) on :
Deb, can you give the dosages of the meds your daughter is taking
Biltricide for 2 days Ivermectin and Pyrantel Pamoate for 2 weeks Albendazole for 2 weeks Alinia for 2 weeks
It is something I would like to talk to my Dr about but would like to know the dosages of each.
thanks, A
Posted by Deb133 (Member # 18544) on :
So far so good on gettng all the drugs in without insurance or anyone giving us a hard time.
She is 17 years old and is an adult size and this is the protocol:
** moderator's note - please PM protocols, per Loub's post at the top of medical, full protocols are not to be posted in order to protect our doctors **
This is the protocol he wrote up for my daughter and she is not to be on any antibiotics while doing this.
Deb g
[ 03-03-2011, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]
Posted by Deb133 (Member # 18544) on :
Is there any easy suggestions on how to get rid of these toxins? We start tomorrow. We have chlorella on hand. How far apart should we take it from the medication? Couple hours?
Thanks,
Deb g
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Chlorella should be taken at least 2 hours away from medications.
Hiker53
Posted by Deb133 (Member # 18544) on :
Thanks Hicker...thats kind of what I thought too !
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Deb,
Please go buy Ornithine (500mg caps)
You can take as much as needed (it's safe - it's an amino acid)
Killing parasites will no doubt cause an icnrease in ammonia being released. I overlooked this for 2-3 months.
If your daughter's urine and BO starts to reek - think ornithine
Posted by Deb133 (Member # 18544) on :
Thank you Canefan..will do !!!!!!
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Just a word of caution. Drugs like ivermectin and Pyrantel Pamoate are the same drugs used by veterinarians for pets. It is fine to use them on humans, but the dosage should be done by the weight of the person and one size does not fit all!!!
Usually these drugs are given for one day with one dose and then a follow up may be done later. They are strong drugs.
I am not trying to be controversial as I believe parasites play a big role in Lyme Disease, but I just want people to be careful of what they take and make sure their doctors have a great deal of knowledge about parasites.
Hiker53
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
Deb - I'm curious, is this Dr. M who is recommending the parasite protocol?
Thanks, tickbattler
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
re: hiker's comments...
Yes, this is why I decided to stick with the herbal protocols. I thought about seeking out a doctor who could prescribe the drugs but I did see that the herbs were effective. I guess time will tell.
If the herbs become ineffective - there's always the salt/C protocol. It's not for everyone, though.
Charcoal, clay & psylium are also good binders. I like Dr. Schulze's Intestinal Cleanse #2 for this reason. Ordinary charcoal caps work well, too. Just be sure to take them at least 2 hours away from meds/herbs - before & after...
Your daughter may need to eat lightly during this process. No need to be drastic but it helps to avoid junk foods, greasy stuff, sugar, etc. I noticed more yeast during the process.
I like Yeast Cleanse by Solaray to get rid of yeast. Also, I find Excedrin pretty good for increased pain. I take NAC to help mitigate any negative effects on the liver.
Sometimes, liver support is helpful during all of this. There are many herbal combos for this purpose.
Posted by Deb133 (Member # 18544) on :
Yes tickbattler it is Dr. M prescribing the protocol. We talked at length about it again last night. He made it very clear that he would not put my daughter in danger. He feels this
is an excellent protocol to rid her of these parasites. Dr. K has used it many many times over 2 decades. He feels that she defintely has parasites.
Our pharmacists had questions about the protocol as the dosages are high no doubt about it. They talked for quite a while about the protocol and after their conversation our pharmacist was then ok with dispensing the meds.
Thanks for the ideas for the binders.
Hiker - my inbox shouldnt be full.
Also after I posted her protocol I realized I probably shouldnt have done that so it was edited.
Deb g
Posted by Deb133 (Member # 18544) on :
ok as it turns out...we have to wait 30 days as she was on Rifampin and we have to wait until it clears her system.
So now we are set to start March 26th. I don't know if I'm happy about this or sad..haha..I just want to get it over with.
After talking with her doctor at length Thursday evening on the phone I feel more comfortable with this protocol.
He feels very strongly that when he did ART she was no doubt about it very positive for Parasites.
So on we go...
Deb g
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
Hi Deb, Glad Dr. M is working out for you...it sounds like he is keeping up to date with the cutting edge treatments!
I just had an appt with a Dr. K - trained doc today for 2 of my kids. Sure enough he found parasites in my kids and they are starting on Ivermectin in a few days. We go back in 2 weeks so I'm not sure which drug will be used next. Alinia tested well for them, but I think that is used at the end. The binder they will be using is Pectasol Chelation Complex (I think it's apple pectin?).
tickbattler
Posted by Deb133 (Member # 18544) on :
Yes Alinia is used for 2 weeks at the end..I'll be anxious to see how your kids do on the Ivermectin.
Wondering why their doc is not doing the whole 6 week protocol.
We start a week from tomorrow...yikes...
Deb
Posted by momlyme (Member # 27775) on :
Deb - did you ever take her to the NP for muscle testing?
We test everything we take before he or I start taking it. Some things test very poorly... sometimes I am surprised at what tests poorly. I close my eyes so I cannot influence the results.
I did send you the name of the one we go to, right?
Posted by Deb133 (Member # 18544) on :
I'm not sure if you sent me the name or not but since Dr. M has trained under Dr. K....I feel that I am pretty much getting the best for testing.
I will keep it under consideration though if the opportunity presents itself where I feel I need to do something other than what I'm doing. Right now Dr. M is in Colorado at another seminar. So he is totally staying current with everything and anything out there.
Thanks
Deb
Posted by momlyme (Member # 27775) on :
I didn't realize Dr. M did ART! Could you PM me his name? I think you told me before who your daughter sees but I can't remember.
How does he set up a protocol like this so far ahead of time? Did he test her on the individual drugs?
We test weekly or bi-weekly and adjust according to testing. Will Dr. M be ART testing her to see how she is responding to the protocol?
Posted by Deb133 (Member # 18544) on :
Yes...because I told you he went to Dr. K's conference in NYC in February. Then our appt happened to be a week after he attended the conference so he tested her.
It was really cool.
No he didnt test her on individual drugs as he would not hve the individual drugs as they are prescription.
As far as setting up the protocol Im not sure exactly what you mean. It is a 6 week protocol developed by Dr. K. that is the protocol he wanted us to do.
Deb
Posted by momlyme (Member # 27775) on :
Deb- I am sorry if I was off-base. I was asking out of concern and I saw how your daughter was not starting the protocol for another week she might want to energy test for compatibility.
When we did a parasite cleanse we had to start with small doses or it made us really sick. We did not know that until we did muscle testing. Not every parasite med is compatible with every patient.
I recognized it and when I read GiGi's post on this thread she mentions that Dr. K always ART tests "to make sure the person is in the condition to handle them. Some people are too deficient to be able to handle some of these protocols and have to work on that first."
That was why I mentioned our NP and by testing I meant muscle testing. She tests all our meds and supplements prescription and OTC.
I thought you might want to test her on the meds before she starts taking them. After I found her I started testing everything before either one of us starts something new.
I just wish I could do the muscle testing myself!
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
re - I just wish I could do the muscle testing myself!
Try to learn dowsing. I have been doing that for myself. Some people gravitate to ART others to dowsing. i think they are similar.
There's a bunch of links for it if you google "medical dowsing".
You don't actually have to have the drug or supplement, either. You can ask about it without the actual substance. It saves money. i hate buying a drug & find out that I don't need it & it goes to waste.
Seems like it's accurate IMHO.
Posted by momlyme (Member # 27775) on :
I have thought about using the tensor... you feel like it works for you?
GiGi suggested it too. I know I have been to the site she suggested to order one and I just don't know if I will be able to do it!
Where did you get yours and did you teach yourself?
quote:Originally posted by sparkle7: You don't actually have to have the drug or supplement, either. You can ask about it without the actual substance. It saves money. i hate buying a drug & find out that I don't need it & it goes to waste.
Seems like it's accurate IMHO.
How can this work???
I have only seen muscle testing where the product is there. I just can't imagine asking about a supplement?
Let's say I want to try "phytosterol complex" my body is going to know whether I need this or not by the name of the supplement? That doesn't make sense to me.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
It takes a bit of practice. I started doing it many years ago with a pendulum. I have a bobber now but you could also use a pendulum. I got the bobber from a man who makes them. You can get them on-line, too.
Some people like the tensors but I don't think they are necessary. You can actually make a pendulum out of a paper clip & some string.
I can look at a picture, ask a question in my mind, or write the name of something on a piece of paper. I don't need to have the actual substance in from of me. You have to be able to focus & not be distracted.
It can be easier if you have the actual supplement, drug, food, etc. but I don't think it's absolutely necessary.
Posted by Deb133 (Member # 18544) on :
Oh my gosh Heather you were not off base at all
Ya know..its like texting..sometimes things sound different when you read someones words...I was not upset at all...not at all...sorry about that.
yeah I just dont feel like I have time to bring her up there and get her tested. I mean I guess I could but IDK...I think I will call his office though and ask him about testing the meds and see what he says....maybe he will suggest bringing her up there since we now have all the meds in our possession.
I'm hard pressed to think that every doctor who is using Dr. K's protocol is able to test all the meds....wish all this was simpler thats for sure.
She was on Rifampin and we had to wait 30 days to get it out of her system before starting...
Sorry if you thought u upset me..we r all in this together..all is good
Posted by momlyme (Member # 27775) on :
sparkle - great website! And that saves me from spending money I don't have, I LOVE IT!
I am going to give it a try.
Deb - I am glad I missunderstood the tone. I was a little worried I had over stepped...
I totally understand the worry... maybe the pendulum testing might work at home to put your mind at ease.
The reason we go see the NP every other week is to put my mind at ease. We need that. As moms, we need to know we are doing the right things for our kids.
You are a great Mom!
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I have one from him that I just use for medical questions. Highly recommended!
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Any updates Deb?
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
Deb, also wanted to know if she is doing better? I just read that bactrim and hydroxychlorquine are also anti parasitic.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
gwb,
Neuro Antitox II CNS/PNS
So you used this product with success?
I'm thinking of starting it soon but to be honest I'm afraid of stirring things up in my CNS (causing seizures, encephalitis, etc)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)