Yesterday my doctor referred to cats as "nasty creatures" and implied that they carry a lot of bugs. He even went so far as to say that we will probably want to get rid of them when we decide to have our first baby!
Our cats are both rescues and as I don't have children yet, they ARE our kids!!
Has anyone thought about having your cats "cleaned up" -- i.e., treated for bart, etc, as a precautionary measure?
Ours are obviously up to date on shots and all the regular stuff, but we haven't really done much beyond routine maintenance.
Both are quite healthy, but as I said they are both rescues -- one we found on the street as a kitten, one we adopted from a filthy and overcrowded shelter. So it does make sense that they could be carrying some stuff.
Any thoughts?
TIA! Posted by sbh93 (Member # 30429) on :
My doc hasn't commented on my pets though I've mentioned we have them.
We have seriously considered getting rid of them, too. All of them are rescues and are family, but we also have children.
One of the kids and I are sensitive to cat dander, though it's manageable as long as we keep a distance. We don't have the heart to get rid of them.
I do suspect at least one of my children also has TBI. Ticks are all over our neighborhood and we use more stuff on the animals than is probably good for their health.
We keep the house as clean as possible and have agreed on taking on no more pets. Everytime we talk about finding the animals new homes, I end up crying. Right now the emotional pain of the idea weighs heavier than the risks.
I do know it's very important to keep your distance from cats when pregnant, especially away from the litter box because of the risk of toxoplasmosis. That was before I knew about TBI, when I was living life as a presumed-healthy-but-crazy person.
Posted by Lauralyme (Member # 15021) on :
Definitely don't allow them to sleep in your bed
Posted by lajamur (Member # 24593) on :
Hmm, but is there a way to "clean them up" so they don't pose as much of a threat? Ours are indoor cats so they are effectively quarantined with us. I'm not worried about them picking things up, and they don't have fleas or ticks.. am more concerned about what they contracted before they were with us.
sbh -- I totally empathize. We are animal lovers and can't imagine life without them.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I don't think you can "clean them up" .. they all CAN carry certain diseases. And of course they can all carry TICKS.
All pets are a risk...sad to say.
Posted by sammy (Member # 13952) on :
You do not need to get rid of your pets unless you cannot take care of them any longer.
If your cat is not going outside it is not going to pick up any diseases or bring any fleas or ticks into the house.
There are some other common sense things that you can do to keep you and your cats healthy. Keep the cat's nails trimmed so that they cannot accidentally scratch you while playing. Don't let your pet lick you or chew on your fingers. Teach your cat to stay off the table, counter, sink, etc.
You can wear disposable gloves and a mask when cleaning the litter box. If you are concerned about dust and dander then get a HEPA filter to clean the air. Vacuum regularly to pick up the pet hair. You can also keep them out of the bedroom if you'd like.
In my opinion, the benefits of having a pet far outweigh any possible negatives. They keep me entertained and make me laugh. They comfort me when I'm feeling bad. I'm happy to wake up and see them everyday. Pets are a blessing.
All of my pets were strays at one time too. Now they're family.
Posted by lajamur (Member # 24593) on :
But Lymetoo, if a cat is carrying bart, and then, for example, you treat it for bart ... wouldn't that be an effective "clean up" of sorts?
Since our cats don't go outside I don't see how they'd pick up any fleas or ticks (they haven't had either in the four years since we adopted them).
I'm not considering getting rid of them -- no way I could do that -- but I'm thinking there may be a way to treat them for bart or whatever so that there would be LESS of a chance of them passing something on to us.
I agree, sammy, that they are a blessing!
Posted by Lauralyme (Member # 15021) on :
I know that all dogs have parasites.... maybe cats do too
Posted by 5vforest (Member # 29365) on :
"sammy", the voice of reason in this thread.
Posted by little_olive (Member # 28063) on :
I got this destructive bartonella from a new kitten and got repeated exposure via flea bites because the kitten hadn't been taken care of... So my obvious answer would be yes.
But that's not all. All species of bartonella found in dogs are also human diseases, and if you ask me those strains are worse (have a stronger affinity for the heart and are more difficult to eradicate).
For someone with immunosupression (such as being chronically infected with all these other pathogens we carry), I'd suggest indoor pets ONLY. I guess it really depends on how comfortable you are with the risk. If I got anything else I'd probably die. Others are sick but still able to have somewhat-normal lives so obviously the risk for them wouldn't be as high.
I agree with your doctor. Cats are health hazards for people in certain situations. Everyone else can do what they like. Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Toxoplasmosis can be very nasty and we get it from cats. Almost everyone carries it, but someone dear, though never in direct contact with any cat, just was diagnosed with Toxo deep in the brain and it is important to treat it. Much research was done on Toxo years ago with regard to HIV/AIDS. So it is not always an innocent infection.
Take care.
Posted by 4Seasons (Member # 14601) on :
We were doing a lot of kitten fostering a couple of years ago when my daughter was bedridden (it kept up her spirits).
I talked extensively about the risks of Bartonella with our LLMD. His advice was to test the pregnant mom cats for Bartonella, which we did. The ones we tested were negative, so the kittens were okay.
As for our own cats, he recommended just treating them for Bartonella, instead of testing, since the testing is expensive. He suggested Azithromycin, but the vet wanted to use something else, I can't remember what. We went ahead and treated them, to be on the safe side, even though we doubted they were infected.
Of course, they could still contract Bartonella, through a flea or tick bite, so we are careful to keep up with their Frontline/Advantage dosage to keep the fleas and ticks away. (We are lucky to have very few ticks here, but plenty of fleas)
Toxoplasmosis can also be tested for. I remember when I got pregnant 17 years ago my ob/gyn ran a test when I told her I had two cats. Currently we have a cat door and no litter box.
Our animals are such a blessing in our lives and the fostering was so healing for my daughter. Talk to your vet about prophalatic treatment or testing so you won't have to worry.
Posted by sammy (Member # 13952) on :
There are also links on the lifecycle of toxoplasmosis, treatment, etc. It's pretty interesting.
You can get toxoplasmosis from improperly handled food and undercooked meat. You may also come in contact with it while gardening. It can also be found on fruits and vegetables so you need to wash them well before eating.
Something else mentioned on the CDC website, you should clean the cat's litter box daily. The toxoplasmosis parasite does not become infectious until 1-5 days after it is shed in the cat's feces.
Cats usually only shed the parasite for 1-2 weeks after they become infected. Cats become infected by eating the parasite hosts (rodents or birds) or from contaminated soil or litter.
From what I understand, if you keep your cat inside and change the litter box every day you can break the cycle of infection. Good to know, right. To be doubly sure, you could also ask the vet to treat your pet.
Bartonella and other parasites can be treated also.
Posted by AZURE WISH (Member # 804) on :
my cat is my son. He is well worth any risk. I have said for years that when a person is diagnosed with a chronic illness the first script that should be given is for a cat (unless they are allergic or to sick to take care of them or something). He has the best llittle face to wake up to.
Humans, including spouses and human children can carry ticks to us and transmit diseases to us but we dont kick them out.
I think cats are one of the most divine creatures there are. Maybe your dr was a cat hater.
Yes I am biasised. I am a big cat lover. the cats in my life have made all the illness, suffereing and loss over the years alot easier to bare. I will always defend them
Years ago we had an indoor cat who got very bad fleas. We brought them in to her.... but she loved us anyway
I was told the tbds tests are worthless by my vet. I figure he doesnt have bart. cuz i dont have bart... one of the few common ones i dont have or had.
Cleaning the litter box everyday is a good idea anyway. we use corn litter. it clumps good too.(i have severe mcs and it is what i can tolerate) so its natural no exposure to chemicals in litter. we do get his stool tested every so often for paresites.
Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
I have 2 Maine Coon cats. We got them as kittens and they were our children before we had children. now they are loved members of our family.
We will not get rid of them. Period. They are indoor cats and have never been outside.
I do think Bart may have been / or may still be a concern as one of my cats has plasmocytic lympocytic stomatitis and this can be caused by Bart. They did a month of Doxy / Zith as a test and are much better.
Don't get rid of your family. You can always give them Bart antibiotics or have your vet call Galaxy Diagnostics (google them.)
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
bcb..Our neighbor used to have a Maine coon cat.. very unique and pretty cat!
Ask your vet about this, laja.. of course, he will be "prejudiced" in the other direction! But he/she can explain it to you so you'll know if there are any real concerns.
I think having an indoor cat makes a big difference.
Posted by klt9751 (Member # 28656) on :
My cats were like children to me, too. But I strongly suspect that my "indoor" cats are the reason I have Lyme. About 14 years ago one of my cats got out, and I tromped through the woods to find him. After I finally got him back inside, I found a tick on him. It's the only tick I can ever remember seeing. I don't know for sure, but I'll bet he brought others in with him, and of course he slept with me. It wasn't long after this that I started experiencing my first symptoms. I didn't figure out that I had Lyme until just recently.
My cats are no longer around--they grew old and passed away. But even though I love cats, I won't get another one. I'm not sure what I would have done if I'd known about the risk back then. It's a very difficult situation. If it were just me I might have taken the risk, but if my son had been around at the time, I probably would have erred on the side of caution and tried to find my cats another good home.
Posted by littlebit27 (Member # 24477) on :
I've had Lyme and Bart BEFORE I got my cats. And I haven't gone down hill since I've had them. They are front declawed, are up to date on shots and have always been indoor cats.
I clean the litter every 2 days, but after reading this I think I might make it a daily thing.
I love them, the kids love them. I think the kids and my husband are more likely to get TBDs from me than them...
Posted by Sammi (Member # 110) on :
I think it is safe to have indoor cats and use common sense.
I completely agree with what sammy and AZURE WISH have posted.
The benefits of having pets are enormous and very rewarding.
Posted by merrygirl (Member # 12041) on :
indoor cats who get regular vet care are pretty safe. Most people already have been exposed to toxo and dont know it. you can get it from gardening and eating meat. I was a vet tech for 12 years before getting lyme. I still test negative for bart after being scratched, bitten and must have surely had a few fleas.
You can get your cat tested for bart very easily if your worried. If positive, they will likely treat with 30 days of zith. For toxo, cats only shed it in their stool very briefly. i would encourage anyone changing litter to wear a mask as well as gloves because it can be inhaled. Keep your cat on frontline so it doesnt get fleas and will help with ticks.
I did have acute toxo infection 1 year before getting lyme. I was out of work for 3 months. Maybe it was always lyme. I have read european articles that said they found toxo in some ticks. Toxo is usually very benign for most people, but very bad for pregnant women and those with hiv. Mepron will treat it.
Dont get rid of your cats, thats pretty extreme.
Posted by annier1071 (Member # 28977) on :
If it wasnt for my 1 year old kitten, I would have slit my wrists by now. She lays with me (IN MY BED) right by my side and seems to know when I am feeling horrible. She is not a lap cat at all....yet when I cry she rubs up against me and stares till I stop.
Sometimes I would take this shelter kitty over the adults in my life anytime.
Once again we need to take off our lyme glasses and learn to live and love life as we always did before this diagnosis...
Posted by fflutterby (Member # 28081) on :
quote:Originally posted by annier1071: If it wasnt for my 1 year old kitten, I would have slit my wrists by now. She lays with me (IN MY BED) right by my side and seems to know when I am feeling horrible. She is not a lap cat at all....yet when I cry she rubs up against me and stares till I stop.
Sometimes I would take this shelter kitty over the adults in my life anytime.
Once again we need to take off our lyme glasses and learn to live and love life as we always did before this diagnosis...
Well said <3
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Some people just don't like animals so they like to tell everyone how awful they are. I don't care if it's a doctor or whoever... I like having pets.
I don't let my cat outside, though.
klt9751 said - "I tromped through the woods..". Don't you suspect that you could have picked up a tick while tromping rather than from you cat?
Disease & germs are everywhere. What are we going to do - live in a plastic bubble? You just have to be careful. There are plenty of people living with animals who haven't gotten ill. They may actually make us more resistant to some illnesses...
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Pets and Allergies
The old school of thinking was that if you or your children suffer from allergies, animals should be avoided at all costs; but more recent research shows that growing up with exposure to animals actually heightens allergy resistance, possibly due to developing a stronger immune system in response to the presence of animal bacteria.
When people burned all the cats because they thought they were witches - they got the black plague... The rat population went out of control. So, there are a few points of view about having cats around.
Toxoplasmosis is a parasitic disease caused by the protozoan Toxoplasma gondii.[1] The parasite infects most genera of warm-blooded animals, including humans, but the primary host is the felid (cat) family.
Animals are infected by eating infected meat, by ingestion of feces of a cat that has itself recently been infected, or by transmission from mother to fetus.
Although cats are often blamed for spreading toxoplasmosis, contact with raw meat is a more significant source of human infections in many countries, and fecal contamination of hands is a greater risk factor.[2]
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It is estimated that between 30% and 65% of all people worldwide are infected with toxoplasmosis.[46]
However, there is large variation between countries: in France, for example, around 88% of the population are carriers, probably due to a high consumption of raw and lightly cooked meat. [47]
Germany, the Netherlands and Brazil also have high prevalences of around 68%, over 80%[48] and 67% respectively. In Britain about 22% are carriers, and South Korea's rate is 4.3%.[28]
Kittens are more likely to carry the bacteria in their blood, and may therefore be more likely to transmit the disease than are adult cats. However, the results of experimental studies showed that fleas serve as a vector for transmission of B. henselae among cats,[5] and that viable B. henselae are excreted in the feces of Ctenocephalides felis, the cat flea.[6]
Another study showed that cats could be infected with B. henselae through intradermal inoculation using flea feces containing B. henselae.[7] As a consequence, it is believed that a likely means of transmission of B. henselae from cats to humans may be inoculation with flea feces containing B. henselae through a contaminated cat scratch wound or across a mucosal surface.
Although Bartonella DNA has been reported in ticks, there is no evidence that CSD can be transmitted by tick bites.
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It's pretty easy to keep a cat free of fleas. I used a product called Program & it worked quite well one time when my cat got fleas. I think he got them from sitting in the window (he's an indoor cat). It does happen. We had squirrels & racoons that used to go on the roof near the window.
I would keep the cats. Just watch out for fleas & use common sense about the litter, etc.
Posted by cleo (Member # 6646) on :
I have had a cat since I was 5. She passed at 23 5 years ago. She had neuro symptoms the last 5 years of her life. I will never get another animal in my lifetime. Several studies point to problems with pet ownership. Here is one on a connection with cats and ms. Many more out there.
Hi everyone, and thanks so much for these thoughtful replies!
Just to be clear, I REALLY am not considering get rid of them!!! Was just pondering ways to "de-germ" them!!
I could never give them up!!
I love hearing about everyone else's beloved pets. They really do provide so much laughter and comfort. Both of ours love to sit on my lap when I'm at the computer. When I'm watching tv the fluffy one will curl up against me so I'm "spooning" him. It gives me such a good feeling.
I agree that dogs and cats are incredible and a true blessing.
I am going to look into having them tested/treated for bart, as well as treating for fleas and ticks more regularly despite the fact that they are indoor cats.
I wish I could see photos of everyone's "babies"!!!
Posted by stillwater (Member # 30312) on :
Got to love Maine Coon cats. I've had several in my life. More like dogs than cats. They are like your best friend and follow you everywhere.
I had one that was so big it could reach up behind me and touch my waist. Could open any door in the house without jumping.
One time he wanted to get outside in the worst way, so he pushed a screen out of the frame in a second story window and just jumped. The only reason we knew where he hit was the fur ball he horfed up when he hit. None the worse for wear.
But stubborn to the extreme... this cat used to climb the woodwork and hang there - had no front claws. Used to watch me brush my teeth every morning hanging from the top of the doorway. As soon as I made a move towards him he was off like a shot. One big game...
Coolest cats there are.
Posted by annier1071 (Member # 28977) on :
Sounds great stillwater....I have seen them on the animal shows..incredible.
I dont let my little one out and never will...not for fear of ticks but that she will run away on me or get hit by a car. I adore animals all of my life and this will not stop me.
There are deer all over our upstate property where I was bitten. After getting bit by two ticks and having lyme now, I was fearful about going back to the mountains this summer. After thinking about the beauty up there and the peacefulness it brings, I plan on forgetting about "bugs" this summer and doing what I have done all my life.
I rolled in the grass as a child, hid in the woods, and my pets were along side me. If ever a tick was gonna bite me it would have been then. This is just a "bump" in the road just like any other unwanted diagnosis. I love the mountains, love my animals and even the deer that graze on my lawn. Might not be a fan of the "tick" as a pet..but God put them here for some reason???? Maybe to make us stronger?
Posted by Sammi (Member # 110) on :
For those here who love cats, there is a great show on Animal Planet called "Must Love Cats." There are several episodes on this afternoon and early evening.
Posted by imagine2 (Member # 3136) on :
LOVE these stories. My kitties "make my world go around"...such delightful animals. I have two tuxedo kitties that I adopted a year ago.
When they were babies, I had them tested through Dr.Breitzwerdt's lab in NC and yep, they came back positive for bart. My holistic vet who studied under Dr. Breitzwerdt treated them immediately.
About the deer I agree with you Annier. They are such peaceful innocent animals that take all the blame for lyme. So sad.
Posted by stillwater (Member # 30312) on :
All that said, they are dirty little creatures, whether we leave them out or not. I mean they lick their, you know...
No cats sleeping on our beds. No licking, no biting. These are things I never thought about before.
But next week our two cats are being dewormed, and they are getting treated for Bartonella. Don't know if they have it or not, but they've had fleas at one time or another. I'm just not taking chances. Not even going to test, just ask the doctor to treat them.
I don't need to get reinfected. I do love my cats; I even pet them once in a while..
Posted by Rumigirl (Member # 15091) on :
annier, argggh! Be careful. I wouldn't say you shouldn't go to your house upstate, but to think that you can throw caution to the winds?? If you do, you are asking to get bitten again and have a big relapse. It has happened to me, even while being careful (well, not quite careful enough).
Please, please rethink that. Read the stickies at the top of Medical Questions on tick bite prevention and follow ALL of it. Let me tell you, rolling in the grass, going back to being naive about ticks, will only lead to more suffering than you would ever want to experience. (Didn't mean to hijack the thread, just couldn't let that pass).
Posted by annier1071 (Member # 28977) on :
Thank you Rum...I meant rolling in the grass as a child...not about to do it today!!
I will be careful. My husband built this house in the mountians and is going there whether Id o or not...so I will not stay in the city alone..gonna go for the summer. Since I am out of work and in so much pain, the sun and quiet will be a blessing after this horrible winter in NY!
I will never ride the lawnmowers again that much i will not do since that is how I got bit twice.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
re: All that said, they are dirty little creatures, whether we leave them out or not. I mean they lick their, you know...
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Well, at least they don't build nuclear reactors on earthquake faults in tsunami zones...
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Also, I read that coconut oil may help prevent ticks from being able to crawl on you. There are natural tick deterrents. People have listed them here on occasion.
Posted by stillwater (Member # 30312) on :
I said they were dirty, didn't say anything about stupid...
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