The only symptoms I am still fighting are pain and stiffness..."fibromyalgia", neck pain and stiffness, head pain.
I feel stuck even though I am so much better than I was 3-4 years ago.
Posted by baileypup (Member # 22824) on :
I'm kind of in the same boat as you. In my search for what to do next, I have been using systemic enzymes, and having a lot of toxicity or fall-out from using these enzymes.
For me Zymex II is the strongest systemic enzyme. I also use lumbrokinase, Interfase Plus and Wobenzyme.
Posted by Dekrator48 (Member # 18239) on :
Thanks for your input, baileypup!
Posted by sammy (Member # 13952) on :
My naturopath recommends that I take Vitalzym.
I've never taken it consistently because I have a hard time remembering to take it on an empty stomach. I should try it again and take it regularly so that I can get the anti-inflammatory effects.
My LLMD suggested Wobenzyme PS because I have a lot of fibro-type pain too.
I've been taking 1/2 dose for four weeks; I think I notice some reduction in pain. Too soon to know for sure.
Posted by Dekrator48 (Member # 18239) on :
Thank you, sammy and debilyn!
I appreciate your thoughts on this!!
Posted by sickpuppy (Member # 23846) on :
What's the PS for: Wobenzyme PS? Is it something different from just plain Wobenzyme?
Posted by Cold Feet (Member # 9882) on :
Hi,
If your goal is to clear away diseased tissue, biofilms et al, pls make sure you are comfortable with:
- the notion of breaking up biofilms, and the risks of reinfection;
- taking anti-inflammatories, which may quell the inflammatory cascade.
Depending on your bioburden (germ load) and what you open up, these factors may vary in their importance or how you manage them as a methodology.
My pain point: careful what you wish for, while helping your body get rid of "naughty luggage."
Posted by jarjar (Member # 8847) on :
I discovered Interface Plus through this site and it is the best enzyme bio film buster I have worked with.
Posted by jarjar (Member # 8847) on :
I discovered Interface Plus through this site and it is the best enzyme bio film buster I have worked with.
Posted by Dekrator48 (Member # 18239) on :
Thanks coldfeet. I take milk thistle, chlorella and lots of krill oil, and other anti-inflammatories.
I have been treating for 3 years, so I think it's time to try these systemic enzymes.
jarjar, thanks for your input!
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
Hubby took vitalzyme in the past -- not nearly as effective as lumbrokinase for him.
Actually he also takes wobenzyme. They seem to work differently and the combo is better than either one alone.
If you are trying to open up bloodflow to the brain then lumbrokinase and also arginine (do not take this if you have herpes viruses) both work well. Hubby tried high dose niacin and then moved on to the arginine.
But I definitely agree -- start slow with any of these and ramp up slowly.
Years ago before we knew not to just do what the doc tells you hubby was advised to take 11 wobenzyme either 2 or 3 times per day. He started at full dose. Well after about a day and a half he ended up with encephalopathy and was unconscious in the hospital for about 15 hours one day. He had elevated protein in his spinal fluid. This was before he had had any antibiotics. Was trying herbal treatment for lyme at the time. The only good thing that came out of that experience was a positive PCR for lyme.
So please go slow -- especially if you have never done anything for hypercoagulation.
Hubby has also tried heparin -- did not help much. And he tried nattokinase but probably was not at a high enough dose.
Bea Seibert
Posted by Carol in PA (Member # 5338) on :
quote:Originally posted by debilyn: My LLMD suggested Wobenzyme PS because I have a lot of fibro-type pain too.
I've been taking 1/2 dose for four weeks; I think I notice some reduction in pain. Too soon to know for sure.
Well, why don't you try going up to a full dose? I noticed a significant decrease in pain and stiffness when I increased the dose.
One of the guys in Lyme Chat told me that he didn't think that Serrapeptase was doing much for him, until he increased the dose.
In the various articles about Wobenzym, I read that doctors in Europe would prescribe a large dose (like 30 tablets) to "force the therapeutic response."
Posted by willbeatthis (Member # 31111) on :
I take wobenzym and boulouke. Boulouke has potentially been a game changer for me as I think you have to get to those biofilms. I take two morning and night on an empty stomach. Wobenzym I take four morning and night on an empty stomach. Both have wonderful anti inflam properties. I am on an antinflam cocktail morning and night that I would not be without.
One of the best antinflams I have seen though is the New Chapter Zyflamend. That is amazing stuff. Only Lyme folks can understand how much of a difference this piece makes....
Posted by Hoops123 (Member # 18333) on :
Interfase plus seems to be helping me.
Posted by Dekrator48 (Member # 18239) on :
Thanks, Bea, for all of your thoughts.
You and your hubby sure have been through he mill.
I did use heparin a few years ago. I did not notice any effect from it.
I will go slowly with the enzymes.
Posted by Dekrator48 (Member # 18239) on :
Carol in PA,
That makes sense. I hope I notice a significant reduction in pain and stiffness like you did.
That would be awesome.
Thanks for your input.
Posted by Dekrator48 (Member # 18239) on :
willbeatthis,
Thanks for the info on what works for you.
I wish some of these things were not so expensive....I (everyone else too, I'm sure) take so many things.
Boulouke is more expensive than some.
I have not tried Zyflamend. Perhaps I better try that one too.
Thanks alot!
Posted by Dekrator48 (Member # 18239) on :
Hoops,
Thanks for your thoughts.
I plan to start with wobenzyme and then I'll add from there. I already ordered some.
Posted by nonna05 (Member # 33557) on :
You all is this about ,,,PAIN//or Thick Blood or gut NoT WORKING or DETOXING or all of it ????
I have a hypercoagulation post out there and at a very unsettled point of what to do...I know comply ,but what about these isssues.
Posted today around 2-5 pm
Posted by Dekrator48 (Member # 18239) on :
I'm not sure nonna...I think those enzymes can do multiple things, so that's why I asked about pain, biofilms, and making forward progress when "stuck".
I posted the links to both of our posts in your new post, so maybe it will help others compare your questions and get you some answers.
Posted by jarjar (Member # 8847) on :
Dekrator since you mentioned cost of biofilm treatment, something most of have to watch. Interfase plus from the this site is 27.00 mailed to your house for a month treatment.
InterFase Plus� provides the same unique enzyme formulation as InterFase� with the addition of ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA). The presence of calcium, iron, and magnesium is essential for biofilm creation and serves to cross-link the anionic regions for polymers. InterFase Plus� includes ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA) which binds the metals needed for biofilm formation. Biofilm consists of microorganisms encased within a self-produced matrix of exopolysaccharides and exoproteins that strongly adheres to interfaces and resists dislodgement. Microorganisms residing within biofilms are highly resistant to antimicrobials including antibiotics and bacteriocins produced by probiotics. InterFase Plus� is a unique enzyme formulation with EDTA that is especially designed to disrupt the biofilm matrix that embeds potential gastrointestinal pathogens. Enzymes in InterFase Plus� are selected for their ability to lyse the extracellular polymers commonly found in biofilm as well as degrade bacterial and yeast cell wall structures. The enzyme blend in ?InterFase Plus� was developed using in vitro testing of antibiofilm activity and ??was found to have significant antibiofilm activity resulting in meaningful degradation of biofilm communities of potentially pathogenic bacteria and yeast. InterFase Plus� is intended for use in conjunction with efforts to support normal gastrointestinal function and microflora. As an adjunct to other efforts to eliminate potential pathogens, it is best combined with use of a high-potency, broad, multispecies probiotic formulation and a prebiotic to encourage the formation of healthy intestinal microbial biofilm communities. It may also be combined with antimicrobial agents. ?The capsules should be taken away from meals to maximize the enzyme effects.
Posted by Dekrator48 (Member # 18239) on :
Thanks for all the info jarjar! I'll look at the link. Appreciate it!
Posted by nonna05 (Member # 33557) on :
Thanks Dekrator....It was so strange seeing the blood and being told a bit of what it meant....
Just trying to get there
Blessing's for Easter.Nonna
Posted by PhillyLyme (Member # 26468) on :
I have been taking interface plus for over a month I think it did help at first because I got a small herx out it. I am noticing now though that every time I take it in the morning I get this really bad stomach pain.
not sure if it a good thing or not but I might stop taking it ig this continues
Posted by jarjar (Member # 8847) on :
Philly, the biofilm in the gut does not like this stuff. I as well as others on this board have gone so far as to throw up or have dry heaves. As time goes on the upset feeling diminishes. I would try alka seltzer gold or something that settles your stomach before stopping it.
Posted by PhillyLyme (Member # 26468) on :
interesting you mentioned Alka-Seltzer Gold I have gone to 3 pharmacies looking for it and no one has it
Posted by sickofsick (Member # 29258) on :
I think Buoloke has done wonders to break down biofilms. Of course, I really don't know because taking so many things and fighting so many infections!
We have seen significant improvement in breathing and hypercoagulation issues.
Posted by Cass A (Member # 11134) on :
Dear Friends,
It is very likely that the babesia-like organism Dr. Fry discovered and named is behind these bio-film problems.
However, he doesn't yet have a treatment that fixes this situation permanently. Working on it......
In the meantime, the use of enzyme products seems vital to me!
I take Witalzyme currently as a systemic enzyme. They recently changed their formula and increased the price, unfortunately. I take Rechts-Regulat for hyper-coagulation.
Thanks for the data on InterFase Plus. I'll look into that one!
As noted above, when doing anything that will lead to detoxing, it is very, very important to be "mopping up" after, or the body will just deposit the toxins somewhere else or make you feel horrible, or both!
Best,
Cass A
Posted by debilyn (Member # 35753) on :
The PS on the Wobenzyme stands for professional strength.
Yes, I know I need to up the dose. Had a bad initial reaction to the full dose. So trying to go slow.
There are so many things to keep straight-- what time to take which meds, which meds need to be taken away from others, when to do enzymes; it is a huge learning curve for me.
Posted by jarjar (Member # 8847) on :
Thanks Cass for bringing up about mopping up with detox supplements. I always keep Chlorella and Activated charcoal around and totally forgot to mention that for clearing out the toxins when going after biofilm.
Posted by Dekrator48 (Member # 18239) on :
Thanks jarjar, PhillyLyme, sickofsick, Cass A, and debilyn for all of your input...very helpful!!
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[dizzy]](graemlins/dizzy.gif)