Topic: Which systemic enzyme is most effective for biofilms, pain and getting "unstuck"?
Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
The only symptoms I am still fighting are pain and stiffness..."fibromyalgia", neck pain and stiffness, head pain.
I feel stuck even though I am so much better than I was 3-4 years ago.
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm kind of in the same boat as you. In my search for what to do next, I have been using systemic enzymes, and having a lot of toxicity or fall-out from using these enzymes.
For me Zymex II is the strongest systemic enzyme. I also use lumbrokinase, Interfase Plus and Wobenzyme.
Posts: 964 | From san diego | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
Thanks for your input, baileypup!
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
sammy
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13952
posted
My naturopath recommends that I take Vitalzym.
I've never taken it consistently because I have a hard time remembering to take it on an empty stomach. I should try it again and take it regularly so that I can get the anti-inflammatory effects.
posted
My LLMD suggested Wobenzyme PS because I have a lot of fibro-type pain too.
I've been taking 1/2 dose for four weeks; I think I notice some reduction in pain. Too soon to know for sure.
Posts: 331 | From West Coast | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
Thank you, sammy and debilyn!
I appreciate your thoughts on this!!
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
What's the PS for: Wobenzyme PS? Is it something different from just plain Wobenzyme?
Posts: 702 | From North Eastern USA | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
- taking anti-inflammatories, which may quell the inflammatory cascade.
Depending on your bioburden (germ load) and what you open up, these factors may vary in their importance or how you manage them as a methodology.
My pain point: careful what you wish for, while helping your body get rid of "naughty luggage."
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I discovered Interface Plus through this site and it is the best enzyme bio film buster I have worked with.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I discovered Interface Plus through this site and it is the best enzyme bio film buster I have worked with.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
Thanks coldfeet. I take milk thistle, chlorella and lots of krill oil, and other anti-inflammatories.
I have been treating for 3 years, so I think it's time to try these systemic enzymes.
jarjar, thanks for your input!
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hubby took vitalzyme in the past -- not nearly as effective as lumbrokinase for him.
Actually he also takes wobenzyme. They seem to work differently and the combo is better than either one alone.
If you are trying to open up bloodflow to the brain then lumbrokinase and also arginine (do not take this if you have herpes viruses) both work well. Hubby tried high dose niacin and then moved on to the arginine.
But I definitely agree -- start slow with any of these and ramp up slowly.
Years ago before we knew not to just do what the doc tells you hubby was advised to take 11 wobenzyme either 2 or 3 times per day. He started at full dose. Well after about a day and a half he ended up with encephalopathy and was unconscious in the hospital for about 15 hours one day. He had elevated protein in his spinal fluid. This was before he had had any antibiotics. Was trying herbal treatment for lyme at the time. The only good thing that came out of that experience was a positive PCR for lyme.
So please go slow -- especially if you have never done anything for hypercoagulation.
Hubby has also tried heparin -- did not help much. And he tried nattokinase but probably was not at a high enough dose.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
quote:Originally posted by debilyn: My LLMD suggested Wobenzyme PS because I have a lot of fibro-type pain too.
I've been taking 1/2 dose for four weeks; I think I notice some reduction in pain. Too soon to know for sure.
Well, why don't you try going up to a full dose? I noticed a significant decrease in pain and stiffness when I increased the dose.
One of the guys in Lyme Chat told me that he didn't think that Serrapeptase was doing much for him, until he increased the dose.
In the various articles about Wobenzym, I read that doctors in Europe would prescribe a large dose (like 30 tablets) to "force the therapeutic response."
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I take wobenzym and boulouke. Boulouke has potentially been a game changer for me as I think you have to get to those biofilms. I take two morning and night on an empty stomach. Wobenzym I take four morning and night on an empty stomach. Both have wonderful anti inflam properties. I am on an antinflam cocktail morning and night that I would not be without.
One of the best antinflams I have seen though is the New Chapter Zyflamend. That is amazing stuff. Only Lyme folks can understand how much of a difference this piece makes....
Posts: 859 | From Southeast | Registered: Mar 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
Interfase plus seems to be helping me.
Posts: 749 | From State full of ticks | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
Thanks, Bea, for all of your thoughts.
You and your hubby sure have been through he mill.
I did use heparin a few years ago. I did not notice any effect from it.
I will go slowly with the enzymes.
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
Carol in PA,
That makes sense. I hope I notice a significant reduction in pain and stiffness like you did.
That would be awesome.
Thanks for your input.
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
willbeatthis,
Thanks for the info on what works for you.
I wish some of these things were not so expensive....I (everyone else too, I'm sure) take so many things.
Boulouke is more expensive than some.
I have not tried Zyflamend. Perhaps I better try that one too.
Thanks alot!
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
Hoops,
Thanks for your thoughts.
I plan to start with wobenzyme and then I'll add from there. I already ordered some.
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
nonna05
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33557
posted
You all is this about ,,,PAIN//or Thick Blood or gut NoT WORKING or DETOXING or all of it ????
I have a hypercoagulation post out there and at a very unsettled point of what to do...I know comply ,but what about these isssues.
Posted today around 2-5 pm
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
| IP: Logged |
Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
I'm not sure nonna...I think those enzymes can do multiple things, so that's why I asked about pain, biofilms, and making forward progress when "stuck".
I posted the links to both of our posts in your new post, so maybe it will help others compare your questions and get you some answers.
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Dekrator since you mentioned cost of biofilm treatment, something most of have to watch. Interfase plus from the this site is 27.00 mailed to your house for a month treatment.
InterFase Plus� provides the same unique enzyme formulation as InterFase� with the addition of ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA). The presence of calcium, iron, and magnesium is essential for biofilm creation and serves to cross-link the anionic regions for polymers. InterFase Plus� includes ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA) which binds the metals needed for biofilm formation. Biofilm consists of microorganisms encased within a self-produced matrix of exopolysaccharides and exoproteins that strongly adheres to interfaces and resists dislodgement. Microorganisms residing within biofilms are highly resistant to antimicrobials including antibiotics and bacteriocins produced by probiotics. InterFase Plus� is a unique enzyme formulation with EDTA that is especially designed to disrupt the biofilm matrix that embeds potential gastrointestinal pathogens. Enzymes in InterFase Plus� are selected for their ability to lyse the extracellular polymers commonly found in biofilm as well as degrade bacterial and yeast cell wall structures. The enzyme blend in ?InterFase Plus� was developed using in vitro testing of antibiofilm activity and ??was found to have significant antibiofilm activity resulting in meaningful degradation of biofilm communities of potentially pathogenic bacteria and yeast. InterFase Plus� is intended for use in conjunction with efforts to support normal gastrointestinal function and microflora. As an adjunct to other efforts to eliminate potential pathogens, it is best combined with use of a high-potency, broad, multispecies probiotic formulation and a prebiotic to encourage the formation of healthy intestinal microbial biofilm communities. It may also be combined with antimicrobial agents. ?The capsules should be taken away from meals to maximize the enzyme effects.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
Thanks for all the info jarjar! I'll look at the link. Appreciate it!
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
nonna05
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33557
posted
Thanks Dekrator....It was so strange seeing the blood and being told a bit of what it meant....
Just trying to get there
Blessing's for Easter.Nonna
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have been taking interface plus for over a month I think it did help at first because I got a small herx out it. I am noticing now though that every time I take it in the morning I get this really bad stomach pain.
not sure if it a good thing or not but I might stop taking it ig this continues
Posts: 324 | From Philly | Registered: Jun 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Philly, the biofilm in the gut does not like this stuff. I as well as others on this board have gone so far as to throw up or have dry heaves. As time goes on the upset feeling diminishes. I would try alka seltzer gold or something that settles your stomach before stopping it.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
interesting you mentioned Alka-Seltzer Gold I have gone to 3 pharmacies looking for it and no one has it
Posts: 324 | From Philly | Registered: Jun 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think Buoloke has done wonders to break down biofilms. Of course, I really don't know because taking so many things and fighting so many infections!
We have seen significant improvement in breathing and hypercoagulation issues.
Posts: 312 | From Utah | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
Dear Friends,
It is very likely that the babesia-like organism Dr. Fry discovered and named is behind these bio-film problems.
However, he doesn't yet have a treatment that fixes this situation permanently. Working on it......
In the meantime, the use of enzyme products seems vital to me!
I take Witalzyme currently as a systemic enzyme. They recently changed their formula and increased the price, unfortunately. I take Rechts-Regulat for hyper-coagulation.
Thanks for the data on InterFase Plus. I'll look into that one!
As noted above, when doing anything that will lead to detoxing, it is very, very important to be "mopping up" after, or the body will just deposit the toxins somewhere else or make you feel horrible, or both!
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
The PS on the Wobenzyme stands for professional strength.
Yes, I know I need to up the dose. Had a bad initial reaction to the full dose. So trying to go slow.
There are so many things to keep straight-- what time to take which meds, which meds need to be taken away from others, when to do enzymes; it is a huge learning curve for me.
Posts: 331 | From West Coast | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks Cass for bringing up about mopping up with detox supplements. I always keep Chlorella and Activated charcoal around and totally forgot to mention that for clearing out the toxins when going after biofilm.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
Thanks jarjar, PhillyLyme, sickofsick, Cass A, and debilyn for all of your input...very helpful!!
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[dizzy]](graemlins/dizzy.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic