I am one year into abx treatment and every time I go off abx the symptoms come back. Trying Zhangs protocol with doxy.
I am now 16 days into Zhangs and herxing. Flu like during the day and very bad pains at night only.
Anyone else tried Zhangs protocol. I am wondering why I only have pains at night.
Bitten in NH in 2010 and clinically diagnosed 16 months later.
Bless you all.....I just feel so alone out here. I would love to connect with someone else who has experience with Zhangs.
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
I don't really have experience with Zhang's, but started HH2, minocycline and some other herbs last week,
and Alka Seltzer Gold is my new best friend.
I do feel more pains (feet, ankles) after dinner dosing.
Hang in there, maybe add more detox!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- If herxing badly, you
1. may have started too high a dose too soon. If so, back down. It will do no good forced your body to take more than it can manage;
2. your food and water intake may not be adequate; or
3. you may be missing part of the protocol.
Herx support is vital. But so is the full protocol as it's all in balance. If you do only part, balance topples.
You may also need MORE than AI #3 so see the Liver Links below, too.
AI#3 is the herx support for this protocol and it very important.
I did very well with this full protocol the two different times I could do it for a few months. I stopped only due to my budget
(as, even though this is very reasonably priced and top quality, it was just out of my reach - I'm saying that only to let you know that I think it is excellent but need to explain why, then, I stopped).
LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too. -
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
HH2 is good stuff.
I generally combine something from Zhang, Buhner, Cowden.
HH2 Quintessence (Biopure) Sida acuta Cryptolepsis Cumanda (not on right now) Samento/banderol (LLMD wants me on this)
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- You might call Hepapro and ask what LL ND (or those with similar education) are familiar - or even excel - with this protocol.
When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL (lyme literate) doctor who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present.
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc. (Be aware that those in this category can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,
& WHY you need an ILADS-educated, Lyme Literate Doctor (whether LLMD or LL ND, or both) -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Char,
I see that you are in New Jersey. I hope your home and community is doing okay and that you are not too affected by H.Sandy.
If you have been affected, it's important to know that such a storm will, undoubtedly, have some serious repercussions for you. The adrenal stress, alone, will make everything else feel worse.
Take it easy. Be sure your adrenal support is tip-top and take really good care to stay low key.
If you have any water damage, be sure to stay safe regarding any chemical clean-up as we should not be around bleach - or mold. So that's a catch 22.
Topic: NATURAL SLEEP & ADRENAL SUPPORT -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Q: wondering why I only have pains at night?
Are you taking a couple serious rest sessions each day? Eating well, drinking enough water?
Often, night is the worst as the body just tries so hard to manage during the day but can't keep up. Better rest / gently activity balance may help.
The endocrine system is also just clobbered with lyme and the night time calls to collect. Again, pacing matters. Adrenal support.
But also just expect that night will be worse. Nurture yourself through that and support to lessen as possible.
Avoid TV shows that are sensory abusive. Get up and move some in the evening. Gentle dancing is nice. Calming Yoga stretches. Warm TULSI TEA.
You may need more magnesium or be sure to divide your doses differently. Magnesium and Fish Oil are the two best comfort helpers.
Magnesium helps the liver, too. Liver stress causes pain so be sure your liver support is working for you.
And, be sure your colon is moving at least once a day (2-3 times a day is better).
MASSAGE can be VERY helpful. Ask your local lyme support groups for LMTs who understand the unique requirements of those with lyme.
WARM BATH (never, ever hot, though - and 20 minute max. Epsom Salts in the warm bath is nice. Rinse with slightly warm water, too - don't get chilled).
Take care. -
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
Very kind Keebler. And if you are reading, your descriptions of the food you make always sound
great to me, too. Often think: wish she'd come cook for me.
I am doing a lot of detox because I am not feeling well:
Alka Seltzer Gold, milk thistle, Xymogen DPO (more liver support) Epsom salt baths, magnesium, fish oil, curcumin, glutathione suppositories.
Quality probiotics, always. Vitamins, minerals, on and on. Sure is $$, hope I'm well soon.
Prayers for those in New Jersey. Hope all is okay.
Posted by Char De (Member # 35781) on :
Thank you for the advice. I do need to find a Dr for a second opinion on what I am doing. I feel like I am my own Dr most of the time.
I probably should find a support group too.
I will take a look at your links above.
I have been taking hot baths because I thought it would help. There is so much conflicting info out there.
Thanks much!
Posted by dbpei (Member # 33574) on :
There is a Facebook group on healing lyme with herbs. Many use combinations. I think I remember reading about some who have used Zhang protocol.
quote:Originally posted by Char De: I am now 16 days into Zhangs and herxing.
Anyone else tried Zhangs protocol.
I would love to connect with someone else who has experience with Zhangs.
WHICH of Zhang's protocols for Lyme are you using? The allicin or the coptis?
I wanted to try this, but I was pretty sure that I wouldn't be able to tolerate the garlic for a year. Nor the people around me, heh.
So I started his protocol with coptis, which is what he suggested if you couldn't do allicin. This was in 2004.
I thought I was doing pretty well, as I was feeling somewhat better and my migraines stopped. However, I had an MRI to check my brain a couple days after I began the protocol, and apparently THAT was what stopped the migraines.
The headaches and migraines started again about five weeks after the MRI. I was really bummed out, as I thought it was Zhang's protocol that was working.
So I stopped Zhang's herbs after using them for two and a half months, which may have been a mistake. The migraines gradually came back, and two months later I was in as much pain as before.
This past summer, Marnie posted alot about Berberine. It turns out that the Coptis that Zhang uses has Berberine!
I'm now on Berberine, and having some improvements.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Yes, as Carol posts, Berberine is a very good consideration.