quote:

---

Originally posted by Catgirl:
[QB] This is just my personal opinion, theory and pure speculation.

I think vaccines weaken the immune system by disrupting the body's homeostasis, thus allowing people to get sick from whatever they have already previously been exposed to (colds, flu, etc) before the shot.

Once someone gets a shot, the immune system is forced to drop what its doing, and focus on the vaccine, so its safety net may be spread too thin which ultimately allows something to slip in and gain a foothold.

I have never gotten a flu shot. Neither has my 90 year old mom, or my in-laws (70s). Yet, everyone else I know who got a flu shot, got sick.

---

-
AGREE with that.

I'm protecting myself with Thieves oil.
 

---

Posted by lost11 (Member # 34607) on :
 
I agree with catgirl too.
 

---

Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
 
-
I will NEVER get another flu shot. Ever. My life was wrecked terribly as a result - a full year bed-bound severely after my last one back in '93.


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=122268;p=0

Tammy just posted an excellent homeopathic link - for this year's strain.

other detail here, too.
-
 

---

Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
 
-
"using using Lysol and Purcell like mad"

ohhh. Please be very careful with all that. IMO, both can be terrible, especially anything that is sprayed.

Not necessary, either. There are much safer ways. Just don't touch surfaces and then touch your face or ears.

A citrus based cleaner from BioKleen or 7th Generation is just fine for surfaces.

Hand sanitizer can be absorbed and can strain liver and kidneys. Just wash with a real citrus based soap and keep hands from face.

Thin cotton gloves (from a pharmacy or cosmetic store) can be used when you might be out shopping, etc. and want to keep a protective layer.
-
 

---

Posted by CherylSue (Member # 13077) on :
 
My LLMD said NO to the flu shot.

I had one 6 years ago and relapsed.


I had one several years when I first got Lyme (undiagnosed, though) and I was fine.

I think it depends on how long you've had this disease and how it has affected your immune system.
 

---

Posted by Love my kids (Member # 32876) on :
 
Our LLMD says NO flu shot and NO vaccines for the kids who also have Lyme (congenital).
 

---

Posted by lost11 (Member # 34607) on :
 
Just read in Forbes that apparently flu B is what could cause things to get worse. The strain they discovered in this year is not covered in this years shot. That's not good. Did say though both common antivirals on the market are a good match to the strain meaning they are not resistant. So.. I guess Lyme or post Lyme patients can take an antiviral right?
 

---

Posted by smiles (Member # 5635) on :
 
Hi lost,
I know the debate. All I can share is my personal experience.

I work in healthcare always received flu shot prior to dx of lyme.

Often I would get the sniffles after getting the shot and a little sore arm.

Was dx with lyme in 2004 and had the same questions you are asking.

However after long discussions with doctor, and others with lyme, decided to take it. I was fine, ironically no sniffles that year.

I have been getting the flu shot ever since (including this year).

Again, people's reactions to flu shots can vary immensely (as you see posted here)... So all I can do is share my experience with it.

However, the flu shot, in general, is comprised of what the epidemiologists 'believe' to be the strains of flu that are hitting this year. So theoretically the shot protects you from those particular strains....

Oh well - hopefully I haven't added more confusion to your decision.

Blessings.
 

---

Posted by patty7 (Member # 5483) on :
 
I really struggled about getting the shot. Haven't gotten it for several years. I already started oil of oregano and bought some other herbals to have on hand. Already taking cat's claw and AG Immune along with other vitamins. Some family members urged me to get the shot, if not for myself for my grandchildren and elderly mother I look after. Called LLMD office and was told they are recommended it. SO I gave in and got the shot today. Hoping for the best and that I am not sorry I did.
 

---

Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
 
If the shots they're giving had the influenza strain- or a weakened version of the strain- that's hitting everyone this winter...like a truck, there'd be a lot less folk down w/ the Flu this year. That's what I think.

My buddy, who HAD a flu shot last October, came down with all the symtoms last Staurday that make it appear he'll be down for the week.

I feel most who are in Lyme "remission" are best to simply avoid all flu serums, use the oils & herbs that LLNDs & herbalists recommend,
& keep any potential contact with the viral bug (on door knobs, gas pump handles, even pens in the office) down to a bare minimum, & of course, wash hands thoroughly several times a day if out in public.
 

---

Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
 
i agree with all the reasons above to not get flu shot if you are dealing with lyme

my llmd told me that many years ago and i have not gotten one

i got the flu once about3 or 4 yrs ago-i know i wrote about it on here---i had it a cople weeks...and used herbs and supps to slow it down
 

---

Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
 
The flu you can treat, mostly.

How to treat the damage of a vaccination, in case it happens?

Never ever, I will get a vaccine for flu.

If we were not in a messy environment, toxic foods, water, air, clothes, body products, we wouldn't be so sick with borrelia, no matter what people say.

Borrelia was found INSIDE the 5,000 year old icy man, preserved in ice. It has been with humans since human beings appeared.

There are reasons why NOW we fall sick to chronic infections, chronic fungi, chronic bronchitis, chronic herpes, brain viruses and pathogens linked to Alzheimer, etc etc.

The reason is not the pathogen,as we evolved with pathogens, including borrelia.
 

---

Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
 
My gut/heart has told me for years, do not get a flu shot. Your(my) immune system cannot handle it.

Sometimes you just have to listen to your gut. But I'm confident that my rife machine can handle any ole flu bug handed to me.

I trust my gut.

Pam
 

---

Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
 
too late for me tho.

i'm now fighting acute bronchitis. coughing up crud and choking.

this ain't no fun. this is my second week.
 

---

Posted by birdie67 (Member # 35994) on :
 
Randibear,

Have you tried elderberry?

After suggestions here, I just read some great reviews about it on iherb and Amazon.

Just ordered some so haven't tried it myself yet.

Hope you feel better soon!
 

---

Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
 
nope i havent. i've been housebound for the whole time tho.

doctor said because i was coughing so much i was still contagious even tho i don't have a fever.

it's the wheezing, rattling that gets me. it's so bad i cna't sleep at night and then the whole cycle starts again.
 

---

Posted by birdie67 (Member # 35994) on :
 
Oh, that sounds miserable. I'm sorry

I ordered mine from iherb and is expected to be here in 2-3 days. You may want to try that so you wouldn't have to go out.

Not sure it would work for the wheezing. I will look through the reviews and see if I see that mentioned.
 

---

Posted by heatherene56 (Member # 39857) on :
 
I don't get flu vaccines. Mostly it is because I spent a lot of time & money trying to get heavy metals out of my system and I don't want to add any.

I know someone who was lied to about the themerisol. i don't trust that they are safe. I got the cold that is going around, but it is the first one in 3 years I have caught.

When I get a virus i drink golden seal tea all day, about a quart. Usually the virus is totally gone the next day. goldenseal is a powerful herb and I am very careful with it. I only use is when I am getting a bad viral infection.

Caution: never use goldenseal more than 5 days in a row. Also, it is very bitter. I would rather do that than risk a flu shot.
 

---

Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
 
-
Good point about limitations of some herbs, especially when used alone.

Goldenseal, in combination with certain other balancing herbs, can be used on-going. Best to consult a LL ND (naturopathic doctor) for details.

Most herbs are best in combination designed for the individual, anyway. And rotation is a very useful technique, too.

But, what works for someone one day may not be what is needed even a couple weeks later. This is where having a LL ND on board is well worth it.
-
 

---

Posted by Judie (Member # 38323) on :
 
I asked my LLMD and was told that your immune system will focus on whatever is in the flu shot to fight against, leaving whatever you're infected with already to basically have a field day and go nuts because your immune system isn't focused on it.

This sounds very bad for someone with lyme or some coinfections that aren't active but still there.

By the way, the person I live with got a flu shot and has had the worst flu ever for 2 weeks. This person has a fantastic immune system by the way.

However, I did not get a shot and have been without the flu (never caught it from the person I live with and we are in close proximity).

Getting a flu shot IS NOT full proof against the flu.

I know someone else who is healthy who got the flu shot one year (gave in to peer pressure). She got the flu 3 times that year and then decided never again for flu shots.
 

---

Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
 
randi, maybe it's time for you to consider the rife approach. It would have helped greatly with this bug you and hubby had.

Also you seem to be one of those people that abx and other super meds effects badly. Not saying rife is a cake walk, but for many that can't handle meds it's a lifesaver.

I would wager it would help to heal that sick gut of your.

Might want to do something thinking on this.

Pam
 

---

Posted by BuffyFan (Member # 34679) on :
 
just wanted to pop in and say that there is a code for $5.00 off your first order from www.iherb.com if you want to order from them.

I think the purchase has to be at least $10.00

TAW742

I tried to order from them but can't log in to purchase, not even with a new password and no one has bothered to answer my email and help....I took my business to www.vitacost.com I"ve ordered from them before with no problems.

Re: goldenseal tea...is it a tea already made or do you have to make it yourself?
 

---

Posted by lost11 (Member # 34607) on :
 
Randi bear.. Hugs.. Feel better. <3
 

---

Posted by ArtnSoul (Member # 4561) on :
 
I got a flu shot 2 years ago - and had a very bad reaction to it.

I couldn't stop coughing for 6 full hours - and felt like I couldn't breathe.

I almost told my husband to take me to the ER.

When I told my doctor what happened, she told me it sounded like an allergic reaction - and that I should avoid flu shots in the future.

ArtnSoul
 

---

Posted by lymeboy (Member # 24769) on :
 
Why do I not get sick? I mean, I AM sick, but I don't get colds or flu.
 

---

Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
 
Lymeboy, I think it's common for some people with lyme. BB has 12 extra strands of dna. Maybe their dna fights it off. Or maybe the T cells are on high alert (like the eye in Lord of the rings) and attack new invaders.
 

---

Posted by StephenC (Member # 15171) on :
 
Man read the inserts before you take those things. I've never had a flu shot and never will. I asked my physician about this post Lyme disease and she said my immune system likely wouldn't respond well to it.
 

---

Posted by Carol in PA (Member # 5338) on :
 
I didn't find out about elderberry extract until after I had already had influenza.
I laid in a supply of it, as I was terrified that I might get the flu again.

After a couple years, the elderberry syrup was still in the cupboard, as I didn't get sick.
I started coming down with a cold, and decided to take elderberry.

Elderberry is antiviral, so it should work against colds, which are corona virus, and bronchitis, which is usually viral.

Wow, it worked great.
I took double doses for a day, and I was better the next day.
I have never recovered from a cold that quickly before.
 

---

Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
 
Exactly. Before taking the flu shot, read the inserts, like you would do with any medicines.

-------
http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm

5.1 Fever and Febrile Seizures

Administration of CSL's 2010 Southern Hemisphere influenza vaccine was associated with postmarketing reports of increased rates

of fever and febrile seizures in children predominantly below the age of 5 years as compared to previous years;

these increased rates
were confirmed by postmarketing studies. Febrile events were also observed in children 5 to less than 9 years of age.

5.2 Guillain-Barr� Syndrome
Guillain-Barr� Syndrome (GBS) has occurred following vaccination with AFLURIA.

If GBS has occurred within 6 weeks of previous
influenza vaccination, the decision to give AFLURIA should be based on careful consideration of the potential benefits and risks.

5.3 Preventing and Managing Allergic Reactions
Appropriate medical treatment and supervision must be available to manage possible anaphylactic reactions following administration
of the vaccine.

5.4 Altered Immunocompetence
If AFLURIA is administered to immunocompromised persons, including those receiving immunosuppressive therapy, the immune
response may be diminished.

5.5 Limitations of Vaccine Effectiveness
Vaccination with AFLURIA may not protect all individuals.

6 ADVERSE REACTIONS
In children 5 through 17 years of age, the most common injection-site reactions observed in clinical studies with AFLURIA were pain
(�60%), redness (�20%) and swelling (�10%).

The most common systemic adverse events were headache, myalgia (�20%), malaise
and fever (�10%).

In adults 18 through 64 years of age, the most common injection-site adverse reactions observed in clinical studies with AFLURIA
were tenderness (�60%) and pain (�40%).

The most common systemic adverse events observed were headache, malaise, and muscle
aches (�20%).

In adults 65 years of age and older, the most common injection-site adverse reactions observed in clinical studies with AFLURIA
were tenderness (�30%) and pain (�10%).

--------------
In page 3 and 4, there is a table with all reactions you can get, by age group.

If I had read these VACCINATION INSERTS, I would never have given it to my child.

The trick is that doctors never offer you to read the inserts before vaccination.
 

---

Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
 
Page 6 on:

Immune system disorders

Allergic reactions including anaphylactic shock and serum sickness

Nervous system disorders
Neuralgia, paresthesia, convulsions (including febrile seizures), encephalopathy, neuritis or neuropathy, transverse myelitis, and GBS

Vascular disorders
Vasculitis with transient renal involvement
Skin and subcutaneous tissue disorders
Pruritus, urticaria, and rash

6.3 Adverse Reactions Associated With Influenza Vaccination

Anaphylaxis has
been reported after administration of AFLURIA.

Egg protein can induce immediate hypersensitivity reactions
among persons who have severe egg allergy.

Allergic reactions include hives, angioedema, asthma, and systemic anaphylaxis (see
Contraindications [4]).

The 1976 swine influenza vaccine was associated with an increased frequency of GBS.

Evidence for a causal relation of GBS with
subsequent vaccines prepared from other influenza viruses is unclear.

If influenza vaccine does pose a risk, it is probably slightly more
than one additional case per 1 million persons vaccinated.

Neurological disorders temporally associated with influenza vaccination, such as encephalopathy, optic neuritis/neuropathy, partial
facial paralysis, and brachial plexus neuropathy, have been reported.

Microscopic polyangiitis (vasculitis) has been reported temporally associated with influenza vaccination.

8.1 Pregnancy
Pregnancy Category B: A reproductive and developmental toxicity study has been performed in female rats at a dose approximately
265 times the human dose (on a mg/kg basis) and revealed no evidence of impaired female fertility or harm to the fetus due to
AFLURIA.

There are, however, no adequate and well-controlled studies in pregnant women. Because animal reproduction studies are
not always predictive of human response, AFLURIA should be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed.

----
8.4 Pediatric Use

AFLURIA is not approved for use in children less than 5 years of age.

In a clinical study in which children received AFLURIA or
a US-licensed comparator vaccine (Study 1, see Clinical Trials Experience, [6.1]), the incidence of fever in children 6 months to
less than 3 years of age following the first and second doses of AFLURIA were 37% and 15%, respectively, as compared to 14%
following each dose in the comparator group.

Among children 3 years to less than 5 years of age, the incidence of fever following
the first and second doses of AFLURIA were 32% and 14%, respectively, as compared to 11% and 16% in the comparator.

In an
open-label study (Study 2), fever, irritability, loss of appetite, and vomiting/diarrhea occurred more frequently in children 6 months
to less than 3 years of age as compared to older children.

Across three pediatric studies of AFLURIA (Studies 1, 2, and 3), 1.2% of
eligible children (n=1,764) were discontinued from the second vaccination because of severe fever (�104�F) within 48 hours of the
first vaccination.

Across the three pediatric studies, two children, a 7-month old and a 3-year old, experienced vaccine-related febrile
seizures (rate of 0.07% across studies), one of which was serious.


Administration of CSL's 2010 Southern Hemisphere influenza vaccine was associated with increased rates of fever and febrile
seizures, predominantly in children below the age of 5 years as compared to previous years, in postmarketing reports confirmed by
postmarketing studies (see Warnings and Precautions [5.1]).
-----------

I don't know, but would you really THINK about taking these vaccines for flu prevention?

There are hundreds of pages produced by the VACCINE MANUFACTURERS.... Just check on your own!

If I have to choose between the risk of having Guillain-Barr� Syndrome or the flu, I take the flu with open arms.

At least, you can take plants, do rife, do homeopathic nosodes, vit D3, Vit C, etc against the flu.

What can we do agains GBS??

http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm
 

---