Like most posting on here my Lymes journey is long and full of pot holes.
Positive WB in 2010 after 8 months of misery and been through 4 rounds of Doxy with much improved joint and muscle pain but can not kick dizzyness and other neurological symptom that I now think are Babs.
GP has tested for co-infections that were all negative and referred me to and ID who is very old school and refuses to consider Babs due to the false tests and would not even consider Igenix results if I foot the bill for the tests.
And due to being an HMO my options are very limited.
I was able to talk him into 3 months of doxy and it has helped eliminate the air hunger and I am now sleeping better but the dizziness will just not completely clear.
I am now self treating with a 1200mg(3x400) Artemisinin 4 days on 3 days off pulse.
Seems to be helping and it is only been 3 weeks.
Usually feel like hell about the 4th and 5th day of the pulse.
Artemisinin at this point is my best and only option but don't know if it will work long term.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- No. Absolutely not. Not alone.
As with malaria, a similar intracellular protozoal infection, combination treatment is REQUIRED often employing rotation of antiprotozoal agents. This is to prevent . . . (lost the word, sorry).
Bottom line: no single agent (whether Rx or other) should ever be used alone to treat babesia. Combination required. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- As you say you have no other options . . . there are some protocols that you might seek out.
You also need more for lyme. Much more. What you got (3 months of just doxycycline) was not enough and it can set the stage for chronic lyme, having been used alone, without a different agent to address the cyst form.
Please hear a gentle tone of voice here, I am so very sad to be the one to tell you these things. Still, there are things you can do to help correct.
Others will surely reply. I will be back but right now, I'm all out of steam and hands are screaming to stop typing.
I will post a few links now but cannot offer what I might in words to go with them. Good luck. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too. -
Posted by baldone (Member # 43172) on :
Keebler,
Thanks for the links.
Chronic Lymes being caused/aggravated by long term Doxy I did not know.
At this point I am going to see if my GP will at least sign off so I can get a full workup from Igenex even though I will have to foot the bill.
I will research the list of local LLMDs I was PMd(Thanks) and try to set something up with one of them.
At this point other than the dizzyness I am very functional and the Doxy and Art have given me glimpses of my old self even if they are somewhat fleeting.
If anyone has knocked out Babesia using only Art I would love to hear their story.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Re: Testing. I would not spend any money on testing right now. Save that money to see a LLMD -- or on top notch supplement / protocol that can cover many bases such as Zhang or Buhner -- or a RIFE machine.
"Positive WB in 2010" and you have not yet felt well, not received proper treatment. You don't need another lyme test.
As for likely coinfections, it is best to see a LLMD for their take on what is going on with you. Tests for coinfections (even with Igenex which is the best) are still not perfect. I would get expert advice first. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- You ask "If anyone has knocked out Babesia using only Art I would love to hear their story." (end quote)
To be clear, this is NOT a good idea to even try.
There are other things you can add to make it a combination effort. NEVER good to treat babesia with a single agent for very long. It can become resistant, and then that won't work at all anymore, making babesia even harder to eradicate.
Even beyond ILADS' LL experts, all medical literature is very clear on this point. Never use artemisinin alone (or alone for very long at all). -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Vertigo, Balance, Hearing with compiled links - including HYPERACUSIS -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
[ 02-02-2014, 03:39 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
Babesia can quickly become resistant to art (not a good idea). Babs is extremely difficult to get rid of and requires rotating things. It is good that you are pulsing the art, but you need more than that, IMO. I agree with all of Keebler's info above.
Posted by beths (Member # 18864) on :
How come Buhner recommends just art or sida acuta for babs?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I don't have time to go through his book / site right now but, as I recall, I don't think he ever suggests taking just one thing for any of the tick-borne infections but building upon each other, adding certain things.
Some of the items in the core protocol may have synergistic effects enough to "count as" a combination and help guard against resistance. Some may also have a degree of antiprotozoal properties to help as well against BABESIA.
Still, I wonder if there has been a misinterpretation if it's posted somewhere that he suggests just one thing - just one thing - against babesia. That counters all the best babesia science.
Is there a web page link or book page number to see where that might be? If a web page, there could be that a correction needs to be made. If in a book, there have been misprints from time to time in all kinds of books, so that would need to be addressed, too. -
[ 02-05-2014, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by gmb (Member # 23562) on :
I'm pretty sure Buhner also supports using ABX drugs as needed.
gmb
Posted by baldone (Member # 43172) on :
Update...
After my 3rd cycle of Art I am feeling much better.
Head is starting to clear and for the first time in a long time I see signs of my pre-lymes self.
I am going to finish this bottle or Art and I am going to add Cryptolepis and maybe Sida acuta.
I have begun discussions with my GP who is pretty open minded about my theories and him possibly signing the Referral so I can have Igenex run a FISH test and possibly rerunning PCR and IGM/IGG tests.
Either way I am feeling hopeful and it feels great to actually be able to focus on something without feeling like I am tipping over.
Posted by lostlyme (Member # 38561) on :
here is something from lyme center of marthas vineyard question and answer with stephen buhner October 26, 2012
I've been on Artemisinin for over a year and it's still working for me - if I stop and restart I herx like crazy.
I think adding the sida acuta and cryptoleptis is a great idea once you are comfy on the Art.
It took me many months to work up to 5 pills twice per day (Allergy Research Formula) Five days on two days off. (Artemisinin)
Now I'm also on Malarone and working my way onto Crypto. Then will add other stuff for Bart, Babs an Lyme
I was on Zith and Septra but can't to ABX anymore.
Posted by colonelforbin1992 (Member # 43154) on :
In regards to everyone posting about how babesia needs to be hit from multiple angles at once, does bartonella work the same way? I'm currently on rifampin alone for it. Planning to add HH/zithro for it soon though.
[ 02-08-2014, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: colonelforbin1992 ]
Posted by CherylSue (Member # 13077) on :
Malarone was pretty good for babesia, in my experience. It helped prevent relapses.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I finished off my babesia many years ago with artemisinin and Zithromax. If you continue to take Art by itself your babesia will become resistant to it. Then you have nothing.
Find an LLMD soon! I agree that you do not need more testing.
Posted by TNT (Member # 42349) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: I finished off my babesia many years ago with artemisinin and Zithromax.
Lymetoo, I was reading some of your posts on other threads about zithromax and artemisinin finally curing your babesia.
You thought you remembered that you took 3 Allergy Research brand capsules daily (not at the same time) along with zithromax. That would have probably been 100mg 3x daily for the artemisinin.
You said you continued this regimen for probably 2-3 months until you were cured (this was at the end of approx. 2 years of rotating with quinine/clindamycin and other lyme meds).
What dose of zithromax did you take?
And, did you pulse the artemisinin those 2-3 months? I am curious because I am worried about building resistance to the ART by not pulsing it as TF did.
I am also intrigued because of how quickly and easily it seemed the zithro/ART combo kicked your babs. I had not heard of others using this simple combo with success until I came across yours.
Posted by SacredHeart (Member # 44733) on :
Is there anything other than zithro that hits babs? I'm just starting art with a whole new set of antibiotics rotated in, one pulsing.
I'd like to know other combinations with art.
I'm taking a week off of everything to bring the bad guys out before I start nuking them again.
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
Read the Babesiosis section of the Burrascano Guidelines and this webpage:
They will tell you the meds that hit babs.
Posted by TNT (Member # 42349) on :
Lymetoo?
Posted by SacredHeart (Member # 44733) on :
Thanks TF. I need to read about the weights too.
Posted by SacredHeart (Member # 44733) on :
I didn't even see art listed there. Did I miss it TNT?
Posted by TNT (Member # 42349) on :
SacredHeart,
I don't think Dr. S mentions ART on that page. I have his book, but I'm only asking about Lymetoo's personal experience....if her Dr. had her pulse it or not during those final 3 months. Also, if she took higher than the "standard" 500mg daily of azithromycin during that time. That's all I would like to know.
Lymetoo?
Posted by TNT (Member # 42349) on :
I understand the danger of using ART by itself for babs. That will cause resistance. But my question for Lymetoo centers around the question of whether it causes resistance if the ART IS taken with azithromycin, but is not pulsed.
????
It's also nice to know what others have had success with.
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
If you take artemesinin daily, in about 14 days your intestines will begin making an enzyme that makes the art ineffective.
A few years ago, the study that proved this was posted on LymeNet.
It doesn't matter whether you are taking zith or anything else with it. You can't take art for longer than 14 days in a row.
If you do, you are just wasting your money and time taking art.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by TNT:
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: [qb] I finished off my babesia many years ago with artemisinin and Zithromax.
Lymetoo, I was reading some of your posts on other threads about zithromax and artemisinin finally curing your babesia.
You thought you remembered that you took 3 Allergy Research brand capsules daily (not at the same time) along with zithromax. That would have probably been 100mg 3x daily for the artemisinin.
You said you continued this regimen for probably 2-3 months until you were cured (this was at the end of approx. 2 years of rotating with quinine/clindamycin and other lyme meds).
What dose of zithromax did you take?
And, did you pulse the artemisinin those 2-3 months? I am curious because I am worried about building resistance to the ART by not pulsing it as TF did.
I am also intrigued because of how quickly and easily it seemed the zithro/ART combo kicked your babs. I had not heard of others using this simple combo with success until I came across yours.
- Too bad we can't tag each other here like on Facebook!! I just happened to see this. I don't remember the zith dosage. Whatever would have been the average dosage. Maybe 500 mg per day? I did not pulse either one.
It intrigues me too! I was shocked that I suddenly felt fine. I quit treatment altogether about 2 months later.
Xango was also instrumental in my being able to stop all treatment. I felt so good on it that I finally got brave enough to stop all abx. That was 11 years ago.
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
This post includes one study on art and proves resistance after about 5 days continuous use:
Thank you both, TF & Lymetoo. Your responses are very helpful. I will have to look up the Xango...never heard of it.
Lymetoo, are you sure you didn't just do the Tango?? Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
.. Xango was the first company to bring mangosteen to the Western world.
Posted by Nula (Member # 38409) on :
I haven't read all responses, but ... Babesia does not become resistant to artemisa annua (i.e. the whole plant). Artemsinin, on the other hand, is another story. Artemisinin is a synthetic derivative of the whole plant.
I suggest buying Stephen Buhner's book on Babesia (published at the beginning of this year, so it's brandnew ...)
Add Sida acuta, cryptolepis, bidens pilosa, alchornea, salvia miltiorrhiza (all from Woodland Essence or Sage Woman Herbs).
I have Babesia duncani. I have the Babesia-typical rocking boat sensation (i.e. a type of vertigo) 24/7. I just started Buhner's new Babesia protocol.
Posted by SacredHeart (Member # 44733) on :
So if we pulse the Artemsinin is it possible to avoid that problem TF?
Posted by SacredHeart (Member # 44733) on :
Nula please tell us if you feel like it is effective for you after you have been doing it for a while.
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
Yes, my doc had me take it 3 days in a row each week. It worked like a miracle for me right off the bat. I will never forget it.
I took it for about 9 months.
Posted by SacredHeart (Member # 44733) on :
Thanks for the info TF. Great to know before I start brother....or sister....=) I'm assuming brother.
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