This is one of the controversial studies I have been waiting to see. And the results are totally inconclusive in my opinion. I am actually surprised it got published. I do not think it definitively disproves the presence of active spirochetes.
I did not pay the 38.00 to view the entire journal article. The abstract is very confusing. Of the 36 subjects I only see results for 23 (16 + 5 + 1 + 1). What happened to the other 13 patients????
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Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
Can't get the abstract to copy for some reason. Will try again later.
Bea Seibert
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
That's why ticks should not bite people - since we might infect the ticks... Posted by rzh1 (Member # 39396) on :
This is typical of the Lyme controversy.The persistence side has the hurdle of explaining why they can't culture viable spirokeets from lab animals after antibiotic treatment.
The non-persistence side has the hurdle of explaining the non-cultivable spirokeet and DNA presence long after antibiotic treatment.
Yale says it spirokeet debris that can last for years.Barthold and Hozdic say the mechanism for resurgence of non-cultivable B. burgdorferi at 12 months after treatment remains to be determined, but may be related to declining antibody response.
Unfortunately,Lyme research is slow,so we sit and wait until one day we will all know the true answer.
[ 02-25-2014, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: rzh1 ]
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
Robin, that is so funny.
Posted by rzh1 (Member # 39396) on :
If the non-cultivable spirokeet and the DNA presence are persisters,I sure would like to see a lab animal study that incorporates Flagyl and Tindamax in the treatment plan.
Just to see if it has any effect on them.I wonder why this has not been done yet?
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
I too do not understand their math.
And why..."Xenodiagnosis was repeated in 7 individuals." ?
Bet they didn't locate the ticks anywhere near lymph nodes!
You would think that if he thought there was viable spirokeets in the lymph nodes, he would culture them.
However in his new study he still states: These results suggested resurgence of spirochetes at 12 months following antibiotic treatment, although all mice remained culture-negative at all intervals.And:
In the present study, we attempted to incubate cultures for several weeks, as in the macaque study, but were unable to grow viable spirochetes.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Bb is very hard to culture...
"blood culture of patients suspected to have Lyme disease is a low-yield test"
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