LymeNet Flash: Can Lyme Patients Transmit bb to Ticks??? -- Study Published

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»	LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Can Lyme Patients Transmit bb to Ticks??? -- Study Published

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Topic: Can Lyme Patients Transmit bb to Ticks??? -- Study Published

seibertneurolyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6416

posted

This is one of the controversial studies I have been waiting to see. And the results are totally inconclusive in my opinion. I am actually surprised it got published. I do not think it definitively disproves the presence of active spirochetes.

I did not pay the 38.00 to view the entire journal article. The abstract is very confusing. Of the 36 subjects I only see results for 23 (16 + 5 + 1 + 1). What happened to the other 13 patients????

Abstract here

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24523212

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Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004 | IP: Logged |

seibertneurolyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6416

posted

Can't get the abstract to copy for some reason. Will try again later.

Bea Seibert

Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004 | IP: Logged |

Robin123
Moderator
Member # 9197

posted

That's why ticks should not bite people - since we might infect the ticks... [tsk]

Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006 | IP: Logged |

rzh1
Member
Member # 39396

posted

This is typical of the Lyme controversy.The persistence side has the hurdle of explaining why they can't culture viable spirokeets from lab animals after antibiotic treatment.

The non-persistence side has the hurdle of explaining the non-cultivable spirokeet and DNA presence long after antibiotic treatment.

Yale says it spirokeet debris that can last for years.Barthold and Hozdic say the mechanism for resurgence of non-cultivable B. burgdorferi at 12 months after treatment remains to be determined, but may be related to declining antibody response.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2346637/

Unfortunately,Lyme research is slow,so we sit and wait until one day we will all know the true answer.

[ 02-25-2014, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: rzh1 ]

Posts: 41 | From usa | Registered: Nov 2012 | IP: Logged |

nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157

posted

Robin, that is so funny.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009 | IP: Logged |

rzh1
Member
Member # 39396

posted

If the non-cultivable spirokeet and the DNA presence are persisters,I sure would like to see a lab animal study that incorporates Flagyl and Tindamax in the treatment plan.

Just to see if it has any effect on them.I wonder why this has not been done yet?

Posts: 41 | From usa | Registered: Nov 2012 | IP: Logged |

Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773

posted

I too do not understand their math.

And why..."Xenodiagnosis was repeated in 7 individuals." ?

Bet they didn't locate the ticks anywhere near lymph nodes!

http://www.plospathogens.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.ppat.1002066

Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged |

rzh1
Member
Member # 39396

posted

Here is a more recent study by Hozdic and Barthold:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3900665/

You would think that if he thought there was viable spirokeets in the lymph nodes, he would culture them.

However in his new study he still states: These results suggested resurgence of spirochetes at 12 months following antibiotic treatment, although all mice remained culture-negative at all intervals.And:

In the present study, we attempted to incubate cultures for several weeks, as in the macaque study, but were unable to grow viable spirochetes.

Posts: 41 | From usa | Registered: Nov 2012 | IP: Logged |

Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773

posted

Bb is very hard to culture...

"blood culture of patients suspected to have Lyme disease is a low-yield test"

http://jcm.asm.org/content/39/7/2747

2012:

http://lymedisease.org/news/lyme_disease_views/culture-test.html

2013:

http://www.medsci.org/v10p0362.htm

Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged |

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