There's been new research coming out that Lyme could possibly be transmitted sexually, as I'm sure many of you guys have heard. An ex of mine has Lyme, and is saying (albeit to me overreacting) "I can never date anybody ever again" because she is a sweet girl and does not want to infect anybody else with this disease.
I want to get everybody's opinion on this, and what their experiences have been as far as having sexual relations with Lyme. I obviously know to practice safe sex just to be safe, but she seems to feel it is not worth the risk. What is everybody's thoughts on this?
Posted by bigstan (Member # 11699) on :
It's quite possible. The problem is I don't think there is enough science to back it up at this stage. For now, the CDC reports that "there is no credible scientific evidence that Lyme disease can be spread from person-to-person through sexual contact."
well personally I think she needs to be educated about lyme. it is not considered a sexual disease such as gnorrhea or, forive me, crabs or something.
so I think she's overreacting a bit.
can it be sexually transmitted? no, I dont believe so, but I'm not an expert on this. I have heard both sides tho. my doc says no.
Posted by lymenotlite (Member # 33166) on :
My LLMD says yes, and as far as sexual involvement, he says, "It's not something you'd do to someone you care about."
Posted by lymenotlite (Member # 33166) on :
To clarify, my doc said that lyme can be transmitted sexually but did not say that it is an STD. I think that is another issue.
As far as taking anything the CDC says about lyme - forget it. They are still trying to cover up the biowarfare aspect, in my opinion, and wish to minimize the importance of this issue.
Posted by GretaM (Member # 40917) on :
Yes, latest studies are finding borellia spirochetes in 100% of vaginal secretions of women studied. Intermittent presences of spirochetes in semen.
It CAN be sexually transmitted, this was documented by another study where the exact strains were found in husband and wife couples.
Personally, I have abstained since the last study was released.
And it is not really an issue, as anyone with lyme can tell you, there isn't much energy for basic everyday activities, like eating, bathing, staying awake, let alone having sex.
And I wouldn't wish lyme disease on my worst enemy. Let alone take the risk, no matter how small, of passing it on to someone I care about.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by lymenotlite: To clarify, my doc said that lyme can be transmitted sexually but did not say that it is an STD. I think that is another issue.
- Right... it might be transmitted sexually (rarely so) .. but it is not an STD.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
good heavens. think of all the millions of people who have lyme and then the ones who are having unprotected sex.
the entire population could wind up having lyme eventually...
Posted by Lymedin2010 (Member # 34322) on :
One guy hugged a girl with Lyme & she was crying, he then got Lyme. He believes it was when he used his synthetic cigarette smoker & put it on his lips with her tears. One of his first symptoms was burning of the lips & mouth, then came rolling in more symptoms & then full blown Lyme. I have the link to the site where he posted if you want, just LMK.
I think I gave it to my wife & she is gradually being pulled down. I think it is a STD, but the level of transmission is dependent on how infected you are with it, how long of an exposure you have, & how well your immune system responds to the infection.
Just think about it, many people get bit by ticks & have Lyme, yet they don't show it. You will get the same response from sexual contact, where few will get sick & most will fight it off & contain the infection. You may not get all of the co-infections with contact, which may be easier for the body to keep at bay.
This is true for many infections, in that many people may carry the virus or bacteria, but not succumb to it.
Until more is known about the trasnmission rate via sex, I will abstain.
Not worth the risk IMO.
Posted by freddypoo123 (Member # 43450) on :
This is just another example about the most frustrating aspect of Lyme, which is that there is so little definitive information out there on it. It seems everywhere you look there are people disagreeing with each other on everything about Lyme.
I wish it was known for sure whether it was in fact sexually transmitted or not. I don't want to see her be alone forever because of this.
Posted by Lymedin2010 (Member # 34322) on :
Since I do my own microscopy I see the damn thing in a small pinch of blood from my finger. They are ALL OVER THE PLACE & I have billions & billions of them throughout my entire body. I am a certain percentage of borrelia by weight.
These blood cells get fed EVERYWHERE in your body & can pour out into any tissue. There is always some blood cells in urine, semen, mouth, saliva, tears...etc.
What happens after the bacteria gets to the host is another story & from MANY people & the MANY family members infected, I notice that MOST are able to hold off the infection or at least hold of the infection for YEARS, but who knows what happens in the future. Time will tell.
Posted by freddypoo123 (Member # 43450) on :
I've come across a study that suggests that Lyme is NOT transmitted sexually. It was written in response to an article suggesting that Lyme might be an STD.
Freddy, I read the article you posted, sorry, highly suspicious.
I don't offer an opinion on Lyme being sexually transmitted, but let me assure you, it absolutely 100%
CAN be transmitted congenitally from infected pregnant mother to baby in utero, and breast-feeding.
The article you posted mentions testing with rats, and infected female rats not passing congenital to baby rats in utero.
Okay. That just tells me we cannot compare rats to humans, or this article is tainted malarkey.
Posted by surprise (Member # 34987) on :
P.S. There have been many threads on the subject of sexual transmission, and if you use the search function,
you can read them, and various opinions on sexual transmission. Congenital has been proven, without a doubt, in humans.
Posted by freddypoo123 (Member # 43450) on :
I'm just offering another viewpoint to keep this conversation going, as I believe it's important. I don't fall on one side of the argument or the other, I am just trying to learn and be objective.
Having said that, in the spirit of objectivity, rats absolutely CAN be compared to humans for medical research! They've been doing it for years and there is a very good reason for it.
"In their Nature paper, the researchers reported that, at approximately 2.75 billion base pairs, the rat genome is smaller than the human genome, which is 2.9 billion base pairs, and slightly larger than mouse genome, which is 2.6 billion base pairs. However, they also found that the rat genome contains about the same number of genes as the human and mouse genomes. Furthermore, almost all human genes known to be associated with diseases have counterparts in the rat genome and appear highly conserved through mammalian evolution, confirming that the rat is an excellent model for many areas of medical research."
Posted by Razzle (Member # 30398) on :
quote:Originally posted by freddypoo123: I've come across a study that suggests that Lyme is NOT transmitted sexually. It was written in response to an article suggesting that Lyme might be an STD.
As for your friend, please don't let her give up sex!
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
That garbage article is by PHIL BAKER. Good grief! What a toad!
The best thing to do with that paper is to use it to house train a puppy, or line the bottom of a bird cage.
Posted by pollyanna (Member # 43166) on :
my partners blood showed this awful illness 10+ years ago, went on doxy and painful symptoms cleared. three years ago out of blue I started with flu, severe knee pain,right leg dragging. then came the ms doctors who insisted lyme will never scar brain mri. well I am lucky to realize they are feeding me wrong info and meds. I cannot figure out why? it is more than possible it's highly likely transmitted this way. this is playing Russian roulette. it still hides in my blood so deep, igenex lab sees it. thank god
Posted by pollyanna (Member # 43166) on :
sorry I did add spaces why did they disappear?
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
I read it is in something like 80% of vaginal fluid tested. that is enough to satisfy me that you can get it from sex.
also it has been found in tears, so..... no more kissing loved ones in the eyes for me.
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
pollyanna, maybe you just got bit????????????
I know I am new-ish here, but from LONG experience personally from ticks and company I must for my own hypothesis say that the likelihood of getting reinfected is the same percentile as having a relapse.
very high
so.... I deduce that it is like playing Russian Roulette.....
saying "relapse" or "how did I get this" to me is like saying , "how did I get that wrinkle in my face? ...I am only 50 years old"
just not feeling so positive this weekkkkkkk.... too much thought about the future of humankind. Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
- Any time you want to edit, just click on the "pencil/pad" icon and fire away!
Posted by freddypoo123 (Member # 43450) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tincup: As for your friend, please don't let her give up sex!
I don't want her to give up sex and I'm trying to find ways to convince her not to. So I suggest condoms just to be on the safe side, but she seems to think it's not worth the risk. Trying to find any information that will ease her mind.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
can you imagine if the millions who have lyme all gave up sex??
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
can you imagine all the people that don't know they have lyme and babs and bart and.... NOT giving up sex because they don't know?
all the blood I donated..... ugh. poor people....
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
lisa, I learned many years ago not to donate. in factit was the very first thing I was told.
Posted by freddypoo123 (Member # 43450) on :
LisaK, are you suggesting that people that have Lyme should give up sex entirely? Or would you recommend just practicing safe sex with a partner who is knowledgeable of the risks of their condition?
Posted by Lymedin2010 (Member # 34322) on :
So we know many people have Lyme, as I did for years & simply not know it. It might never come out right away, or it can be events that just cascaded & open up Pandora's box. So others can get it sexually & contain it very well.
The people in my neighborhood are containing it very well overall, a heck of a lot better than I am right now. But I was them a few years ago, seemingly healthy but nonetheless a carrier.
I believe in sexual transmission & the more exposure the better the chances are of you acquiring it but as a carrier. Just because you host the bacteria does not mean that you are painfully infected, sorta like HIV/AIDS.
My wife doesn't like the grass & outside. I have been running around obliviously outdoors all my life & I loved it. I gave it to my wife, but for years she showed no symptoms & then gradual symptoms. She is becoming more like me now. It took me 16 years until I hit chronic stage & it is taking her a long time as well, but she shows hints of it all the time.
I wanted my wife to use condoms in the beginning, in case I become extremely infected, but she looked at my like I had 2 heads (that is funny now that I look at it).
Is it OK to post another forum here? This is important & read it carefully. One guy on there had a friend who has Lyme & who cried on him. He used to smoke some nicotine synthetic cigarette. He thinks he may have contacted her tears & then the cigarette device to his mouth. One of his first symptoms were burning of the lips. Very good read.
even though I had these buggers for at least 16 years, I only found out last summer.
I am married. My husband and 2 out of 3 of our kids have been diagnosed with lyme and other stuff.
When I found out I had it we used condoms for a while, but only to prevent pregnancy.
I wondered why I didn't get prego all this time.... thank you God for not letting that happen. I have been so sick. It would not have been a good thing.
I did donate blood because I listened to the regime about how they check it all so thoroughly. ha. too bad.
I wish all ticks would just die.
and I wish that everyone in the world would know what it is like to go through all of this. Then there will be change.
My 20 yr old was diagnosed. I told her " no sex", no kissing tears, .... will she listen? who knows. but like all diseases that can be transmitted sexually, she should tell her partner. chances are he has it anyway.
we are in a very high area in PA.
Posted by kreynolds (Member # 15117) on :
Thought the Spirochete was the "cousin" to Syphilis? I don't think you can transmit it to your partner, but I do believe if you conceive, the baby may get Lyme.... Just my opinion...
Posted by KH111 (Member # 25829) on :
I got lyme and babesia from my husband. We only practice safe sex since this started for us in 2003.
I had our son before we had lyme. However he was bitten last summer and was treated by a good LLMD and is off of abx and is doing fine.
What do people do such as my son when he gets older? If he is symptom free for the next 10 years does this matter? Can he ever have a normal relationship? Have kids? We only have one child in part because I did not want to give this to a child. Will I ever have healthy grandchildren?
This is all so very depressing.
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
Depends on which LLMD you talk to. However, I think the real answer is not so black & white.
It's *quite* possible the Lyme 'kete' could be transfered between couples during unprotected sex, in the same way as syphillis is transmitted (they're bacterial cousins).
Especially if the one doing the "transmitting" has not been on high-level abx, which tends to deplete the population of 'ketes in all the bodily fluids *markedly*.
But without "proof" of sexual transmission coming out of a well-run clinial trial (highly problematic to arrange), we'll likely be debating this topic for years to come.
Posted by Lymedin2010 (Member # 34322) on :
lymedin, but what about mesquitos? fleas? and the huge fact that MOST people never remember seeing a tick, and for obvious reasons- they are too small!(esp. in beginning of season)
I think any awareness is great, but we need to realize that most people probably have this is because it is everywhere.
For example:
There is no way science could test every animal meat consumed as undercooked or rare fare. that includes beef, venison, etc.....
there are too many channels for this bugger to even begin to fathom "where it all started with me" type thinking. it is a mute point. in my opinion anyway. just makes sense
Posted by Lymedin2010 (Member # 34322) on :
Yes, those insects too & raw meat.
It is good for people to know that it can also be an STD. Just because you acquire the bacteria, does not mean you will necessarily show symptoms.
Another good reason for people to have protected sex, until you get married. Then you can exchange your bacteria as desired.
My opinion is that it is absolutely a sexually transmitted disease and deserves the STD title. How transmittable will vary upon the carrier.
I agree with what Lymedin2012 said.
Lyme is almost identical to syphilis and many symptoms are the same. Consider that.
No one wants the stigma of being a STD carrier and few doctors will be willing to put that upon their patients at this point.
I use to be a raw milk proponent. But now, due to Lyme I don't think its a good idea.
Posted by applewine (Member # 26220) on :
I know there was a study where it was found in sexual fluid of men and women. That is suggestive of something. But, you need to know you have it to begin with for sure.
Posted by Lymedin2010 (Member # 34322) on :
I think I posted this in another thread, but here is a NOBEL PRIZE winner talking about how Lyme can be spread.
It will take you to the exact time she starts talking about transmission, but it is good to watch the whole thing at one point.
quote:Originally posted by Lymedin2010: ....Then you can exchange your bacteria as desired.
THIS MADE ME LOUGH OUT LOUD!!!! hahahahahahaaa thanks, I needed that
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
nice link with the Nobel person. I notice it was from 2005. :/ it's a shame this all takes so long to get the word out to unsuspecting Joe Public
Posted by lymielauren28 (Member # 13742) on :
Yes, yes, yes. I gave my husband Lyme and co's before we were married. He has ALL of my symptoms now. Sad.
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