The key is to clean your terrain, NOT mess it up even more with heavy duty antibiotics.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
unfortunately, I cannot watch it, patches. They block me from seeing it (I'm in Europe).
We all start to realize that anti-microbials are working less and less.
It's not only lyme, but also candida, herpes, Clostridium diff...
Dr. Rau in Paracelsius always says: lyme is not an infectious disease, but an immune disease. Strong immune systems never fall ill to lyme.
AIDS patients, if given only antimicrobials, anti virals, still die.
Lyme treatment is younger than AIDS treatment. Physicians only now are starting to realize the limitations of antimicrobial approaches in lyme.
A bit like cancer too. Functioning immune systems do not 'get' cancer either. Mainstream is treating cancer much longer than lyme.
Most still didn't change the paradigm, and keep attacking cancer cells, 'killing' them with drugs and radio.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
my husband has been bit numerous times. no sign of lyme. he's like the energizer bunny. jus keeps going and going.
me? I get bit, have the rash and it's been a living hell ever since. I've had tons of treatment, cowden, abx, buhner, you name it.
go figure...
Posted by Marz (Member # 3446) on :
Is he saying that protein isn't necessary?
I understand cleansing with a fruit diet but how does one build new tissue with fruit only.
He's inspiring me to increase fruit in my diet though but think muscles would get weaker without protein
He mentions when he went to his sister's for thanksgiving,Turkey smelled so good so he ate some first time in years and it made his mouth feel awful.
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
Sorry, Lyme doctors are not "all wrong".
We know this because there are tens of thousands who have been successfully treated using the knowledge and tools they have.
Is there more to learn? Yes.
Is there more than one opinion out there? Yes.
Do we have to gear treatment to fit each individual's complex situation? Yes.
Are "Lyme doctors all wrong"?
No.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
What he is saying that the most important thing is to detox your body and get it moved to an alkaline rather than an acid condition. Antibiotics are very acid causing.
Posted by willbeatthis (Member # 31111) on :
I second Tincup. You sent an odd message to me Patches re: if I was seriously ready to heal come to this site-btw, I've not gone there. I'd like to know your background.
A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing especially when you assert that some of the most knowledgeable people I have come across that have quite frankly saved my life- have it all wrong.
There are really sick people that come to this site looking for help and to assert what you have is hardly okay.
(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here)
[ 03-26-2017, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
If you look at the website, Master Fast System, you will understand what detoxing is all about.
Yes, you can kill some Lyme bugs, but will you be well-I don't believe so.
Dr. Robert Morse is a healer who understands this.
I have no connection with either person.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
I would say most drs are wrong about lyme but llmds are not. some are better than others but to say they're wrong, nah, I wouldn't say so.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Okay-please tell me if the llmds emphasize detoxing and making body alkaline?
If they are-great, otherwise they are missing the boat. Few will get well unless the body is alkaline.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Q: " . . . -please tell me if the llmds emphasize detoxing and making body alkaline? . . ." (end quote)
Yes, along with directly, specifically & assertively addressing the actual infections,
LLMDs have been emphasizing such for at least 20 years. It's been a cornerstone of Dr. B's protocol from the start with his emphasis on liver support [a foundation to help the body detoxify metabolic waste] & key nutrients for many other reasons also connected to healthy cellular support, etc.
And every book by every ILADS LLMD or LL ND emphasizes such as well. That's also why green plants are said to be so very vital, to help with the pH balance. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- A top LL journalist who speaks from both research and her personal journey:
For patients with tick-borne diseases, the path to health can be confounding. Combining integrative and conventional approaches may be the best way forward.
. . . What’s more, many of these hard-to-treat patients, like Makris, turn out to have co-infections transmitted by the same black-legged ticks that gave them Lyme — infections that don’t always respond to treatments for Lyme disease itself.
The blood parasite Babesia, for example, must be treated with antimalarial medications.
And, the co-infections Anaplasma and Ehrlichia do not respond to amoxicillin, a first-line antibiotic often used for Lyme.
Even if these and other co-infections are addressed, [Dr. H] says patients can stay sick for many reasons beyond simple infection itself. . . .
See all THREE posts here by Pamela Weintraub (who is a LL journalist who recovered from lyme - and write about her entire family dealing with it in "Cure Unknown" book) -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- For anyone new to lyme, the first two places to learn more:
and if one is looking for a naturopathic approach, in addition to full acquaintance with literature at both sites above:
- When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods, because lyme is so very complex & unique, as are possible coinfections:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )
so they really know all they can about the science of lyme . . . how lyme (& other TBD) act and what we can do about that in various ways. Proper ASSESSMENT of not just lyme but coinfectoins is vital. Someone trained by ILADS is best to assess.
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
For those considering complementary support methods / or other avenues entirely:
Herbal Safety considerations & reference books; etc.
BOOKS - Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
knowing which methods offer assertive & direct impact, which are only support and which are both. And when to use what, how to combine, & when to step back.
You can compare and contrast many approaches with links to articles, books, methods . . . -
Posted by willbeatthis (Member # 31111) on :
Thanks, Keebler! Your tireless efforts and contribution to us all have never gone unnoticed and are greatly appreciated... New lymies- her post is where to start!
Posted by Marz (Member # 3446) on :
I've been watching a few of his videos and he does make sense about fruits making the body more alkaline than vegetables and that protein causes acidity.
It seems that an almost total fruit diet is what one must do according to him--not just for getting well but as a way of life.
I love fruit, but in the middle of watching a couple of hours of these, I got a horrible craving for potato chips!!!
So, Keebler, in your opinion, is it healthy to not eat protein?
I'm wondering why God created fish, chickens, etc if they weren't intended for us to eat?
So right now, I'm worried about eating the meatballs in my fridge and am afraid to eat them! lol!
Posted by Marz (Member # 3446) on :
And he's even against grains and dried beans!
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
fruit is really bad for people with candida. too much sugar.
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
Damn Marz,
Now I have a cankering for meatballs with a side of chips.
Thanks. Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Proteins clog your lymphs. Lymphs are the key to detoxing.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Then how are people doing so well on the zero carb diet?
I would be very sick if I ate fruits all day. I love them, but they don't love me.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Fruits are only one part of the detox process. Herbs and fasting and enemas are important too.
Fasting is the most important as you let you organs rest.
Google Master Fast System. This is one big step beyond a fruit diet. Then access the Facebook entry and listen to those who have healed from every so called disease.
Diseases are only obstructions in the body. Doctors categorize diseases because they do understand that these "diseases" are really obstructions.
True health is removing the obstructions. Only a total detox can remove the obstructions.
Proteins and complex carbs contribute to the problem. Emotions too.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
I meant to say that doctors do NOT understand that these "diseases" are really obstructions.
They come from blocked lymph systems.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Lyme disease and all its co infections are really only symptoms of an obstructed body that cannot handle the interference=whether it is Lyme or any other problem
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- "They come from blocked lymph systems." (end quote)
Actually, these infections most often can be one of the major CAUSES of blocked lymph systems.
The "thick" or "sticky" blood that Babesia and other TBD cause really "clogs" up lymph. Just one aspect of the complex workings. Inflammation from infection, too. The toxicity of the infections as well.
It is important to specifically address all aspects of infection -- and alongside that - correct health habits, nutrition & employ support measures concurrently. There are various ways to do this as the "How to Find a LL ND" thread helps to show. -
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Fasting is the first line to remove the obstructions. Only when you clear the obstructions can you heal the body.
How many Lyme doctors tell you this?
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
Healing is very pluralistic in approach. I know people who have gotten through severe neurolyme after around 10 months on IV rocephin. There are many who come to a top Lyme doctor here who does great with antibiotic combos.
Me, I'm allergic to antibiotics and cannot take them, along with others who cannot and do herbs and other things.
I've always thought healing from Lyme happens in three arenas - kill/deter the organisms, detox, and fortify the body. Some of us are good detoxers genetically and some of us aren't. That's going to make a difference in ability to heal.
Some of us have candida and we're not supposed to have much fruit, or at all in the beginning phase.
It all depends on what we're dealing with.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Here is a history of the fasting system by the author. He explains the development and why it is so effective.
He now has a following of over 10,000 on his Facebook page.
Candida is an acid condition. Fruits are alkalining.
Fruits are really good for this condition-try it before you listen to the "experts".
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
My body is my "expert."
Posted by willbeatthis (Member # 31111) on :
Patches- in all due respect- leave things to the experts. Healing is individual for each and every one of us. Giving your opinion as to what one should do in a poor health state is not considered expert and can be misleading at best. There are many sick with lyme that may not be able to handle a fast. Why not just post links and call it a day. After this horrendous journey and by God it is in large part due to the phenomenal information that can be found here, I've been able to dig myself out of this hole. I am not sure in good conscience you can post your opinion as truth and thus be willing to potentially put others in harms way. This thread needs to be looked at by the moderators. I am proud to say this is the first I've seen the likes of this.
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
Patches- when you find something that works for you please feel free to share it.
Don't, however, say that it is right and everything else and everyone else is wrong. That is where so many members are having a problem.
You sound so desperate to get people to agree with you about fruit fasting, so much so you even said over 10,000 people follow your guy on Facebook.
Not being a Facebook person, I randomly picked what I felt to be a kind of off-the-wall thing and checked its numbers as a comparison.
It said... "1,100,662 people like this and 1,063,804 people follow this" on the FB page.
Does this mean others should follow it too?
Does it mean this is what we should all be doing?
I hope not or we'd all be driving Monster Trucks. My point is- it is not for everyone.
Again, feel free to offer your ideas, but please don't kick others in the head when doing so or make generalized statements that are just plain wrong.
That is not the way to get your message taken seriously.
Thanks!
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Okay/
I agree-find what works for you. I only offer these thoughts for those who want an alternative to some of the persons who do not find their health from the "typical antibiotic" solution.
Again it is there for anyone to understand. Most have no idea that the kidney/lymphatic system IS the way to clean and detox to health. And Lyme, though very painful, is the body reacting to a system that is not capable of attacking it because the body is very toxic and just not working well.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
For those who want more information...
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
I think that most people here already realise the importance of detoxing and draining in tandem with addressing pathogens and modulating the immune system.
Maybe people reacted to your comments more because your tone comes across as so categorical.
Posted by onebeed (Member # 46620) on :
Both my LLMD and my Lyme Literate Integrative doctor have been stressing and teaching about detox and alkalizing the body. Supplements, the proper sauna to use, what to eat and not to eat, everything. They have not been "wrong" about anything.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Yep, lyme is CERTAINLY an immune disease ALSO.
Randi says: husband gets bitten, never falls ill.
My husband rarely gets bitten, but he did get at least once. He didn't fall sick.
It took us one bite to put us in either wheelchair or bedbound (daughter and I).
Next bites were hell. On and on. Rarely we got bites that didn't make us ill.
With the years, treatment, detox, mouth, cavitations, chelation, psychotherapies, building the gut... tick bites became less and less dangerous to us.
To the point that they only rarely makes us sick now.
If drs knew that many people can get bitten by dozens of ticks and never fall ill they would THINK better before concentrating MOSTLY on anti-microbials.
As Carry said, today more and more drs are concentrating also on detox and immune modulating.
Killing pathogens are, in my opinion, PART of detox (because they lower herxes), and PART OF immuno-modulating, because they take a burden of the immune system. Not an end it itself.
I agree with fasting as an excellent way to again set the immune system and detox system back alive. It is the fastest way to control+alt+del the body.
I WISH I could eat only fruits and veggies.
When I'm FLARING, this is IMPOSSIBLE. I flare even more with fruits (veggies make the opposite, flares lower).
When I'm not flaring and I do not have inflammation, eating fruits and veggies is a blessing.
It is truly a blessing, it makes me feel in paradise, I feel every bit of nourishment in the fresh juices from each bite.
I know people who can't even eat green leaves: they can't digest them anymore. Their guts are so bad they can't digest ANYTHING raw.
This is bad, as many vitamins are in raw foods. But they have no choice than eat overcooked food.
As much as I have no choice than lower my amount of delicious fruits when I'm flaring or fighting active candida.
Avoiding cytokine cascading, like Buhner said, is a must for us fighting infections and inflammation.
Cytokine storms are very harmful to ORGANS and CELLS. Very. You don't need infections to get damaged: only a bad allergic reaction or auto-immune conditions will ruin your life, and even 'cause' cancer in the end.
Ideally we should all be back to natural ways, probably a paleolithic type of diet or even before when we were still becoming humans...., but our illnesses are not clement.
Fasting though, I think, goes well with any type of body (not with any type of mind!!!). People's mind block fasting, because of many reasons!
but it's one of the most potent techniques to bring some hope and energy back, short term. I was very surprised to realize my body's software was not totally broken as I thought, just because of fasting.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
fruits for candida. sorry I jus cant buy that
Posted by Razzle (Member # 30398) on :
Hmmm...alkalizing a person with overload of ammonia (an alkali substance) is a BAD idea...and Lyme produces an abundance of ammonia. For those with ammonia detox issues, alkalization can make them worse.
BTW, my Dad was a fruitarian for a while. He loved it, said he felt wonderful eating that way. I think this is because he was no longer eating gluten (I suspect he had silent Celiac Disease). So I have to wonder how much of this fruitarian advice is based on what a person is NOT eating once they switch to mostly fruit, vs. the fruit itself.
I know fruit has lots of good nutrients, but as others have stated, nutritional need is individual - a body builder would not be able to be a fruitarian, there simply is not enough protein or calories in fruit to satisfy the body's need in that scenario.
Also, it is dangerous for some people to fast...genetics is one factor in this, but there are other factors, too. People with porphyria, mitochondrial disorders, blood sugar control issues (diabetes, hypoglycemia), etc., need to be very careful about fasting or should not fast at all.
And now there are more and more GMO foods out there to watch out for (and they're not required to be labeled as GMO) - Arctic apples, for instance, have been genetically engineered to not brown when cut open. These GMO apples have been approved for sale by the FDA...
I think the best take-away from this stuff is that one needs to know their own body well enough to determine what of this info is applicable and possibly helpful to them. It is a very individual thing, treatment, detoxing, etc., must be customized to each individual person.
Just my $.02...
:)
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Fasting comes naturally when the body is not hungry any more.
In acute diseases, many children, animals, adults fast without calling that 'fast'.
we all fasted, for sure, in our lives, when we got sick.
it's not always something you plan to do: your body simply refuses food at a certain point.
You can try to convince children and pets that they have genetic problems or that fasting is not good for them.
But the point is, that is one of the ways we naturally react to some illnesses, usually, acute illnesses.
Fasting will give the body more energy, initially , to fight what it is fighting.
Just look at animals and children: try to push them food when they are ill!
You have to inject them food through IV!!
After fasting, comes hunger. Exactly when the person / animal feels somewhat better.
Not before.
Before natural instincts prevent you from eating! Until you get better. Then you can spend energy with digestion, breaking up food, processing the left overs and toxins out of the body.
Before, during illness, many children naturally fast, and so do animals. And adults!
------------------------------ I have porphyria (KPU/HPU), I had CFS (now I call it fatigue only), I'm EXTREMELY THIN and small body, underweight my whole life.
One of the indicated treatments for diabetes is FASTING. I heard Mercola talking about that, that intermittent fasting can reverse diabetes sometimes!
This is because it can 'cure' leptin-resistance.
Fasting was beneficial in surprising ways, even though I THOUGHT it could kill me.
I simply felt food was not good anymore, so i decided to stop for a few HOURS.
Yes, you can do fasting that lasts just hours, like eating just once a day, for example.
This is ALSO fasting.
It's also a way to see if you feel OK during a fast. ---------------
If you feel okay, and continue fasting...
By day 3, be prepared for an intense detox reaction. INTENSE.
You think your urine will come out clear, as you eat nothing just drink: WRONG.
The urine comes in a deep color I had never seen before.
Maybe that is THE main power of fasting: it re-sets your body's detox pathways.
If you have porphyria, KPU /HPU, you know that you detox badly, from start. My urine has ALWAYS been like water, barely any color. Always, as long as I can remember.
In the last years, the problem was solved. I don't know if it was solved with fasting or with my violet ray, but the truth is I'm able to detox much better than I could before, during lyme.
--------------------------- My opinion: continue doing as you always did, prepare then to continue with illness.
Unlocking reasons why our bodies do not work as they should, trying to re-set our bodies is THE hardest thing to do.
Give the body supplements: it dumps them back, without using them. The supplements will not necessarily correct a broken software.
Fasting was for me one of the most surprising and simple ways to change my internal software, that I thought it was LONG broken.
while it may not work for everybody, for me, it was really worth.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
Patches, there is something that we have all learned here - that treatment is individual and it needs to fit for the person. A particular treatment does not work for all. We offer suggestions and ideas here, but also discuss them for their appropriate applications.
For example, as I mentioned above, someone with candida would not eat fruit, but for someone not dealing with candida, it wouldn't matter so much.
Someone needing nutrition should not fast, but someone who's gotten good nutrition in could probably do a fast ok for a little while. Etc, etc.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Detoxing is not a treatment. You did not look at the material and did not understand about fasting.
So you have a closed mind, Robin 123.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Incidentally, Candida is caused by an overly toxic and acidic body.
Fruits are alkaline to the body and detoxify the body-that is why the sugar angle is not right.
Go on a fruit diet and your yeast problem will go away-try it!
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
anytime i eat too much sugar, including fruit, my candida goes haywire.
I jus think fruit has too much sugar and thats bad for lyme.
I mean why don't we all jus rush out and do McDonald's and chikfila. why even bother with diets. lets jus do what we want.
Posted by WakeUp (Member # 9977) on :
The key is to clean your terrain, NOT mess it up even more with heavy duty antibiotics.
Patches--- I agree with you-- detoxification of the body and the lymph system is of major importance.. I took heavy duty antibiotics for 2 years, and I still have chronic Lyme--- and now I have Morgellons.
Fact: Most Lyme victims who worship at the altar of the "medical" priesthood --- have NOT BEEN CURED of chronic Lyme-- yet they persist in fruitless worship of, and devotion to---MDs-- who are the marketing arm of Rockefeller pharmaceutical companies.
The US medical system is set up to SELL DRUGS and make a PROFIT-- NOT to cure. Americans have been puppy trained to worship "medical authorities" even when these authorities have been repeatedly proven to be wrong --- and also when they lack scientific evidence for their wild claims--- like the IDSA's junk science, "chronic lyme doesn't exist" claim. LOL...
Remember when doctors actually promoted smoking??? LOL!!
Its actually quite sad how willingly people allow themselves to be brainwashed by so called "authorities" who are greed driven marketing wings of the medical establishment.
Americans will jump off a cliff if the "medical authority" instructs them to do so. We have all been trained to worship doctors by TV shows like Marcus Welby, Ben Casey, General Hospital and Dr. Kildare.
Naturopaths are trying to break us out of this paradigm-- but unfortunately they are being attacked--- big time by the mainstream medical community..
Posted by WakeUp (Member # 9977) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tincup: Sorry, Lyme doctors are not "all wrong".
We know this because there are tens of thousands who have been successfully treated using the knowledge and tools they have.
Is there more to learn? Yes.
Is there more than one opinion out there? Yes.
Do we have to gear treatment to fit each individual's complex situation? Yes.
Are "Lyme doctors all wrong"?
No.
Off hand--- just asking for curiosity's sake--- are you cured, Tincup?
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
All Lyme patients who are "cured" please stand up...
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
I was cured in 13 months by going to a Burrascano type doctor.
I have been cured for 12 years now. I have gone through extreme stress, oral steroid treatments for sinus problems, and at least 3 different times had steroid injections in my spine and still my symptoms have not come back.
I have the same brain and life I had before lyme disease.
I had undiagnosed lyme, babs, and bart for at least 10 years before a doctor thought to test me for lyme. Still, I got well.
Then, I sent at least 5 of my friends to Burrascano type lyme doctors and they also got well. And, my lyme doctor had lyme and he got cured.
So, I believe in the Burrascano protocol because I have seen it work over and over again.
It is a 4 pronged approach:
antibiotics diet supplements, and a certain type of exercise to boost the immune system (one continuous hour of weightlifting every other day)
It takes all 4 prongs for the protocol to work.
Posted by TF (Member # 14183) on :
One of my 5 cured friends was likely born with lyme (mother had fibro and she and all of her sisters had it also).
She got diagnosed at age 50 and still got well by going to a doc I recommended.
Another woman had gotten Social Security Disability benefits for her fibro. She had had "fibro" for at least 20 years and an unexplained heart attack to boot. She became "stupid" from her lyme. It was so sad.
But, she is normal today thanks to a Burrascano type doctor.
And, I could go on and on. This is what I have SEEN with my very eyes. These are not people I only know through LymeNet or the internet.
Posted by WakeUp (Member # 9977) on :
TF-- I am very happy for you--- you (and your friends) are very lucky to have found an LLMD who cured you. Yours is a good medical anecdote, but not a double blind study (as if those are really valuable anyway...LOL).
If the Burrascano protocol works so well, and has worked so well since 2005, I don't understand why so many people are still so sick--.i.e. why the LLMD community does not strictly use this protocol (AND SCREAM IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS) if it works so well--- I know my LLMD did not use it and he was president of ILADS for a time-- this is why I gave up in frustration and this is why I do not trust the medical community now.
You can't blame those of us who have tried so hard and spent so much money--- WITH LLMDS. We are frustrated.
I have already expressed my misgivings about the mainstream and LLMD medical community -- but I'm willing to give it one LAST try for 18 months under a strict Burrascano protocol if I can find a doctor who will use this protocol exactly as it is described by Burrascano-- all based on anectodes..
If anyone here could PM me with the name of a STRICT Burrascano doctor in the mid to North Westchester county NY area or in the Hudson Valley--- I would be grateful..
I also have a friend who is a young woman who is very sick and has been on intravenous for severals months, and also gave up -- her mother is getting older and is worried that when she dies, no one will take care of her daughter. This young woman does not have a job due to chronic Lyme, nor is she married and she has recently begun to have seizures. (It would help if she stopped going outside and getting bitten..also the dog brings ticks in-- even in the winter... LOL)
I have lived most of my life--- but she has the rest of hers to live--- if I could help her to get well by any means, I would feel as though my suffering was worthwhile.
I am not dogmatic at all on treatments--- I just have a healthy skepticism of LLMDs based on my experience.
Posted by willbeatthis (Member # 31111) on :
This is the nicest thing to come out of this thread. Wakeup, I hope that TF can give you this information soon. Are you not able to travel in the event you need to? I wish your friend and you healing Godspeed and that your wish for your friend is granted as I feel this is what this journey is truly all about- helping each other. May you be blessed in your pursuit for the both of you and you will certainly be in my thoughts and prayers. TF- thank you for coming forward as to always remind us that there is hope.
SixGoofy I believe is healed and countless others leave Lymenet and go on with their lives. There are so many pieces to each person's case- one must remember that as well. Godspeed WAKEUP!
Posted by duncan (Member # 46242) on :
WakeUp has made some good points, imo.
As for double blinded studies etc, the NIH isn't doling out any funds for treatment studies that I am aware of, and private studies just can't cut it alone - especially when one factors in the inevitable need for replication.
ILADS and LLMDs are at least trying.
But the one size cannot fit all argument can be a costly one.
This gets complicated so fast.
Is it a case of persistent and intractable infections? Or at least infections that seem to resist any boxed approach, and we are literally winging it on a case by case basis? We get the peculiarity of the diseases involved, and each has a signature specific both to the patient and his circumstances...
..and the individual nature treatments by extention might result in, but...this is a frustrating and scary predicament.
Is it a case of a corrupted immune system and falls under a resultant systemic auto-immune or global immune dysfunction umbrella?
Are we talking permanent damage and individual sequelae reflect those issues?
Is it a combination, and we need better means of sifting who fits into which category?
We do not know.
So, it is incumbent on us as buyers to do our due diligence as best as we can. For those of us that have been around long enough, it is not really hyperbole to say it may be no more than a crap shoot.
But, as I said, at least LLMDs acknowledge our plight and are trying.
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
Hey Wakeup...
You said... "Most Lyme victims who worship at the altar of the "medical" priesthood --- have NOT BEEN CURED of chronic Lyme--"
You've been here long enough and done enough in depth research of your own (I hope) to know that there is no cure for chronic Lyme disease.
Can the symptoms be lessened? Often they can and are.
Can your life improve with the "right" treatment designed specifically for you? We hope and pray it can and often it does.
Do all LLMD's have all of the answers? Not by a long shot.
In fact, there has never been any study anywhere that proves early or chronic Lyme can be cured with ANY treatment what-so-ever.
The authors of the IDSA "guidelines" simply decided one day years ago during their rush to get a profitable vaccine on the market that Doxy and Amoxicillin were available, cheaper at the time than most other drugs, and they recommended an "arbitrary" (Raymond Dattwyler) duration for treatment time for anyone with Lyme.
So what do we have left once we are bitten and get sick from known and unknown pathogens that have no science showing a cure?
If you had a choice of going to a duck who says it is all in your head, belittles you and kicks you out the door so fast your head spins as your body rots away and your brains turn to grits....
Or going to someone who is educating themselves as hard and fast as possible to keep up with a nightmare of an exploding epidemic, and who is using any and all tools they have at their disposal to try to help you while risking it all to do so...
Which would it be?
The LLMD's can't change the wind, but they can adjust the sails.
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
Wakeup said... "If anyone here could PM me with the name of a STRICT Burrascano doctor in the mid to North Westchester county NY area or in the Hudson Valley--- I would be grateful."
I have all the respect in the world for Dr. B and have fought as hard as anyone has to assist him and keep him going while he was needing help and he was helping others.
He is absolutely amazing.
That said...
Dr. B's "diagnostic hints" document is out of date. It is the best we have right now to use as "GUIDELINES", but there is a lot of newer science and clinical experiences that are not incorporated into them.
PLUS, one-size NEVER fits all here. NEVER. To say if you follow those protocols to a "t" you'll be cured is just plain old wrong.
I'd be dead right now if I had followed them to the letter, and many others would be too. And many others have been helped greatly by them. Great for some, not for others.
Just like one pair of pants won't fit everyone in the world, neither will one treatment protocol. We are all different and everyone's protocols must be tailored to fit them as an individual, to the best of our knowledge.
Posted by duncan (Member # 46242) on :
Which is why I wrote about the "one-size-cannot-fit- all-argument". (Just in case you were referring to me, Tincup.)
This disease does not lend itself to a cookie-cutter model. None of the permutations I alluded to do.
btw, I am a big fan of yours. Regardless, some people, including people here, do claim they have been cured. Maybe we are cutting hairs, and dabbling in semantics, but I don't thinks so. To have Lyme and Company fall into abeyance, or to go dark and asymptomatic, is different than to be cured.
But as you know, most of us would gladly settle for that. Most of us would settle for far less - just to corral or mitigate our symptoms, for months or weeks or even days.
Posted by WakeUp (Member # 9977) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tincup: Wakeup said... "If anyone here could PM me with the name of a STRICT Burrascano doctor in the mid to North Westchester county NY area or in the Hudson Valley--- I would be grateful."
Little boxes made of ticky tacky? What does this have to do with me or anything about Lyme disease or Burrascano?
You have a strange sense of humor--- I guess you like to mock people who don't kow tow--- for some unknown reason ? Why do you do this? I never did anything mean to you, Tincup.
I simply asked if you were cured.
Well are you cured?
Posted by WakeUp (Member # 9977) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tincup: I have all the respect in the world for Dr. B and have fought as hard as anyone has to assist him and keep him going while he was needing help and he was helping others.
He is absolutely amazing.
That said...
Dr. B's "diagnostic hints" document is out of date. It is the best we have right now to use as "GUIDELINES", but there is a lot of newer science and clinical experiences that are not incorporated into them.
PLUS, one-size NEVER fits all here. NEVER. To say if you follow those protocols to a "t" you'll be cured is just plain old wrong.
I'd be dead right now if I had followed them to the letter, and many others would be too. And many others have been helped greatly by them. Great for some, not for others.
Just like one pair of pants won't fit everyone in the world, neither will one treatment protocol. We are all different and everyone's protocols must be tailored to fit them as an individual, to the best of our knowledge.
Are you a doctor? Or do you just play one anonymously on internet forums?
Do you have a science credential? Research credentials? A PhD? an MD?
What makes you so much more qualified than anyone else here?
Attendance?
Posted by WakeUp (Member # 9977) on :
quote:Originally posted by willbeatthis: This is the nicest thing to come out of this thread. Wakeup, I hope that TF can give you this information soon. Are you not able to travel in the event you need to? I wish your friend and you healing Godspeed and that your wish for your friend is granted as I feel this is what this journey is truly all about- helping each other. May you be blessed in your pursuit for the both of you and you will certainly be in my thoughts and prayers. TF- thank you for coming forward as to always remind us that there is hope.
SixGoofy I believe is healed and countless others leave Lymenet and go on with their lives. There are so many pieces to each person's case- one must remember that as well. Godspeed WAKEUP!
Thank you-- you are so sweet. God bless you
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
I had been battling for about 10 years, the battle against candida, severely limiting fruits, and most of the time avoiding them entirely, along with all other sugars.
I do believe that over the last few weeks I finally got over/through/around that hurdle, thanks to finally eating fruits again.
I do know this sounds crazy to many of you, and I am sure that it would have sounded crazy to me most of the time during the last 10 years, but reality is reality, results are results, it is hard to argue against scoreboard. I would strongly suggest those battling the candida to open their mind to possibilities.
To be clear, I do not mean I went on an all-fruit diet. Not even close to that. I had spent years as vegan, so lots of grains and beans, and plentiful candida. I added in eggs and then animals, more for general nutrition, not specifically to help win the candida battle. But I noted that this opened up possibilities to use less grains and beans, the use of which I thought could have been making it impossible to win the candida battle. As I increased the amount of animals, and really decreased the grains/beans, my candida most definitely got worse. No doubt about it.
As I reduced back the animals, added a small amount of fruits with most meals, added a fruit-only snack late morning, added a snack late afternoon that was fruit with sometimes a small amount of greens ... the candida seems to have vanished, gone ... yes, by adding fruits.
By the way, my goal in adding fruit had nothing to do with the battle of the candida. I did this believing that some specific fruits would help with some digestive system issues, and that providing fruit-sugars would help me have better energy. I had read that giving the body fruit-sugar periodically means that I don't have to run on adrenaline, something that will not work well for someone whose adrenals are subpar and need to heal.
I was reluctant and fearing it would not work out, as a result of the candida. The books I read, recommended by someone I trusted, said otherwise. The books said that eating too much meat is a good way to grow candida, as it will rot in the stomach. This was exactly my experience when I increased the animals I ate. I imagine we all have different ability to digest animals, but I would suggest to those fighting candida to be aware of your body's response to eating different amounts of animals. At some point it may be too much, and despite the lack of sugars, it may be growing candida.
I read in these books that fruits do not cause candida, and some actually help fight it. This has been my experience. I should add that I did not just randomly eat all sorts of fruit, here and there. The fruits were chosen carefully, by reading these books, by using my pendulum testing. The amounts, the timing, what I ate these fruits with, all chosen very carefully.
Just as an example, the fruit I ate today were:
breakfast: 2 tsp "Deep Purple" (a Biopure product that is dried plum/pomegranate/acai)
mid-morning: 3/8 cup blueberries and 3/8 cup raspberries
lunch: one rehydrated dried apricot
late-afternoon: rehydrated 1/8 cup goji berries
dinner: one soaked date and one kiwi
I think this may be just a touch less than average for me these days, but about typical.
I think for me, some of the reality is, I need so many calories ... trying to get them from just grains/beans (and miniscule calories that come in most veggies) ... this may really feed candida, the slow to digest carbs. So if I replace this with animals, fine, but, that will really rot if too much, just takes more work and time to digest. Nuts/seeds are nice to a point, but also more difficult to digest. Fruits are a bit easier, and do provide energy, replacing some of the other choices with their problems. If some particular fruits also support improved digestion, and fight candida, that is a bonus.
The bigger problem I had with adding fruit was symptoms that were a lot more like C.Diff than candida came up. This has been something lurking in the background for years, popping up here and there. I was dx with C.Diff by stool test maybe 6 years ago. It was treated with alinia for a couple weeks, with at least some success, but my digestive system has not been the same since. We test from time to time, suspecting it is still there, and always negative, but we are not confident on the results. This time I responded with some C.Diff fighting foods according to these books--rosemary, aloe vera, papaya--and it has moved back into the background (at least, we can dream maybe a better result than this over time).
I also want to point out, there are at least a couple well respected cancer docs who don't at all buy the no-sugar approach for those with cancer. They believe that in the end it just breeds much stronger and hardier fungal infections (and worse cancer too). These docs do not dispute that there are short-term gains from this approach ... it is just that long-term, it looks to them a losing strategy.
For those interested, the books are titled "Life Changing Foods" and "Medical Medium", by Anthony William.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
A Start-Remove the five top acid forming foods from your diet.
Dairy, grains, most proteins, complex carbs, and most fats. Substitute fruits, some raw vegetables, a little cooked vegetables. Just a start to become less acidic.
Remember-an acidic body cannot heal and Lyme is only one symptom of this problem.
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
I Can't believe what I m reading
Patches, how hurtful for posting LLMD s are all wrong on a Lyme website.
Your simple statement dismisses all of our struggles and pains. It also dismisses our battles won and gains.
Did you think this would be helpful ? Or did you post for optimal shock value to get our attention so you could promote your agenda ?
Oh yes, patches, The solicitation of Mr. Fruits,berries and melon guy website, is your agenda. Which, I might add, you have cleverly, not once, but twice, included the link to in this thread alone !
Ah yes, dear patches, you ve been a busy advocate, because you also have solicited on:
01/01/2017 Breat cancer possible cure by marnie 01/03/2017 Antibiotics are out of control by medical establishment by patches10025 11/25/2016 Vital Reds-Has anyone used this? by MannaMe 10/08/2016 Has anyone tried the RNA? by ihslyme 02/22/2015 Are herxs slow to come on by sick Sam
Plus numerous other posts that you have deleted afterwards.
While I might not agree with what you post, I respect your right to post it. So why then, when I told you, in a public forum, that I was not interested, that you still continued to private message me until I had to block you?
Where was my respect?
Who died and left you boss as to the right way to treat ?
Then you have the superior inclination to ask "all Lyme patients who are cured to please stand up."
Well I would like to ask how many people here at lymenet have been solicited and harassed by private messages from patches10025 directing them to Mr fruits,berries, and melons website ?
And in closing, how could you state that Tincup is close-minded ? Are you serious ? She has been one of the most compassionate and knowledgable angels I have had the pleasure of meeting on my Lyme journey, amoung so many others here at lymenet.
We take care of each other and don't call each other names.
That, my dear is called respect.
You owe her an apology BIG TIME !
P.S. Almost forgot about you, Wakeup.
Who cares if Tincup is a doctor ? You clearly stated your misgivings about mainstream and LLMDs. Tincup does the WORK, tirelessly. She walks the walk.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Wow. Ms. Bartender,
You are so upset. I am sorry if you are that offended.
Of course, you apparently never really investigated what I said, but only want to defend your beliefs.
Anyway, I hope you have now been cured of your Lyme-I wonder though since you are so energized to tell me off like this diatribe from you.
Wishing you well...
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
I investigated you.
Posted by jsnyde2 (Member # 7888) on :
Hi Patches, I think this doc is onto something, but like others, I am afraid of lots of fruit with my candida, which I can hold at bay with like zero sugar. Including fructose. : (
Plus, I feel better with protein. But I do notice my system does not digest vegetables well, which is counter to everything I have ever been taught. I definitely digest fruit the best!
And as far as abx go, yeah, they messed my stomach up bad. I always wonder if my Lyme would have healed without anyway, as I am a good healer.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Listen, when your body is truly alkaline, then your Lyme will not be a problem. Period.
Ask real doctors(healers) if this is not true.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
quote:Originally posted by patches10025: All Lyme patients who are "cured" please stand up...
ME!!! No Lyme since 2009 and do nothing but lead a healthy lifestyle to stay this way.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
I know this method is somewhat extreme for some, but look at all the persons who have healed and are so grateful for the protocol. They do not categorize their malady, whether Lyme or anything else. Their concern is system that is broken and cannot detox and move into alkalinity.
It does not have to be as extreme; there are variations. But it is truly a healing that most are not aware.
Why not give it a try. Within a few weeks, you will know.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Patches, do you sell this system? It seems like you're advertising it.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
No, not at all.
I am using it. With many others, possibly 10,000.
I have spent most of my life-over 50 years-trying to get to the root cause of my chronic fatigue and brain fog, including a blood test that said I was Lyme positive.
This is the only thing that has worked. Why wouldn't it? Detoxing and clearing your lymphatic system and eating non-acidic food is the most effective way to health. Fasting is even more effective. All the great masters say that.
I am only sharing my happiness from this wonderful protocol. I am not selling anything.
Posted by jsnyde2 (Member # 7888) on :
Patches, is there a text version of the protocol? I am way too Type A to watch a video of that length.
It is eating Alkaline, and what else? Herbal tinctures can't be tolerated by me at this time, after abx and large doses of herbal tinctures, so I hope that is not required...
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Here is the long version. You can start as slowly as you like...with a fruit and vegetable diet, then gradually add the herbs, psyllium pudding and the fasting and the grape juice.
thanks Michael Tampa, for the detailed report about what helped you.
I react very similar as you, in fact, I don't believe that candida is fed mainly by fruits.
In my case, the worst are carbs, even gluten free, totally organic type, even in smaller amounts.
I also need energy from food (too thin to live on protein or fats...), that is why I can't live off both fruits and carbs.
So I eat both, having taken off both from my diet, in the end, I do think I need both. For the moment.
During lyme treatment, I never dropped fruits and veggies. Never. Or I felt even MORE miserable.
when I flare with candida, IF I avoid carbs 100%, I suspect I still can eat some fruits without flaring more.
I think the combination carbs + fruits is the killing thing, for me.
So Patches is not totally wrong, in my opinion.
But going cold turkey fruit-only dietis hard, as we have so many food intolerances and allergies and other digestive problems....
I notice CLEARLY that candida increases and flares after milk products, in my case.
I only TOOK sheep or goat yogurt, fresh cream, some cheese and butter. I eliminated long ago all cow milk products, except for butter.
Recently I dropped all casein containing products, meaning basically all milk products, except for butter.
I diminished butter a lot too, while increasing oils (like olive).
But like you, I crave for more energy, beans were NOT ideal, as I also flared clearly with beans. They feel very much like sugar or carbs.
And my gut health prevented me to eat a lot of nuts, because of multiple allergies before.
So the puzzle took time to be solved... it's still not totally solved...
After treating the gut better with live probiotics (kimchi, miso, basically, daily), doing the violet ray for 2 whole years, after taking off all milk products, all gluten, well, finally, my nut allergies faded.
Years, and years of trial and error!!
Fruit allergies FINALLY diminished drastically!
I'm still knocking on wood, as it is unbelievable!
Patches forgets about that: most of us are FULL of fruit and nut allergies!
We can't go cold-turkey because we will cause awful inflammatory responses. And I MEAN AWFUL!
So now, I could SUBSTITUTE a lot of carbs by eating a variety of nuts daily.
I do eat nuts in amounts that are amazing, these last months or weeks!
Just 6 months ago, I would never believe it possible!
My whole mouth, throat, stomach would simply burn with most nuts!!
So now, instead of a piece of bread, I will take 2 HANDFUL nuts, Brazil nuts, almonds, hazel nuts, walnuts, cashew, pistachio, any nut really, as my allergies are going down.
And that nut combo feels nourishing, I swear! I chew them slowly, and no burning, no flares after.
If I take enough good oils in the form of nuts, I need less PROTEIN and less CARBS, as I get less hungry.
People here believe that animal protein-rich diets will keep you off candida.
In my experience, that's not the case. Flares take longer to come, but they do come.
And animal protein-rich diets are excellent for growing bacteria (that is what they eat, while candida eats mainly sugars).
As we guys with lyme (bacteria) USUALLY have candida (fungi-like species), well, it is EXTREMELY hard to do any type of diet.
the problem mainly is the gut, a sick gut, full of inflammation and other diseases.
The gut puzzle is taking my WHOLE LIFE to be solved (I'm 50 now, and suffer from different digestive problems since I remember existing....).
The good news is that my allergies are finally receding. So now, I can eat more fruits and nuts.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
I'm trying again to increase fruits since yesterday, just to see: one avocado with one whole lemon on empty stomach - no flare at all, I felt good with it.
Today, one orange, on empty stomach, morning - no flare at all.
Then 2 handful of nuts: no flare at all, it felt good.
Then I ate a small piece of rice bread: immediately, I could no longer walk, and had to stay sit in the car, waiting for the cytokines to stop, anxiety to calm down.
More than an hour lost, low energy....
When I'm in that flare-mode, I can take coffee without sugar, without anything. Black. Fine.
The moment I add one small teaspoon of cream, I flare!!
The story about sugar and candida flares is not right, in my opinion. It is not the ONLY truth, for sure, as, like Michael, high animal proteins and milk products make me flare too!
And look, my orange today, if I take it alone, didn't make me flare.
If I can substitute all carbs (rice, gluten free bread) by nuts, I think it will do good.
High intake of fruits never caused me to have candida, when candida is already dormant.
Now I just ate half a mango.
OMG, just waiting to see, but so far, so good.
No carbs at all the whole day, except for that piece of bread...
I guess for me, carb substitution can happen if I eat big bowls of greens, with a lot of olive oil, many raw veggies, and NUTS.
Without nuts, I would feel still hungry for carbs, and that is where my health can collapse again (in case candida is active, of course...).
Posted by onebeed (Member # 46620) on :
quote:Originally posted by patches10025: All Lyme patients who are "cured" please stand up...
This is a ridiculous statement as those who are "cured" will most likely no longer be on this board .....
Posted by onebeed (Member # 46620) on :
quote:Originally posted by onebeed:
quote:Originally posted by patches10025: All Lyme patients who are "cured" please stand up...
This is a ridiculous statement as those who are "cured" will most likely no longer be on this board .....
And I don't want whatever it is you are selling so please don't PM me again.
Posted by jsnyde2 (Member # 7888) on :
thanks, Patches
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by onebeed:
And I don't want whatever it is you are selling so please don't PM me again.
-
Please leave members alone, patches. If they need you, they will contact you.
I have a small bit to add. I have followed this FLA doc for about 3 years. I have watched several videos and use 3 of his products. I have a mixed opinion of the "fruit diet" over the long-term for me. I am using some of his tinctures to help with my lymph and liver. I also use one of his teas while at work. Seems the many years of ABX really messed up my liver.
Last year I was tested and found to be Pre-diabetic, I thought the foot pain was all Bartonella. Diabetes is not part of our family history and I was about 25lbs over weight so did some research and am blaming the ABX and damage to the liver, casing a fatty liver.
So I have been on a Keto diet since last August, down about 25lbs and most blood results are good. However my body is not very insulin sensitive yet so until I get that corrected I am staying away from just about all sugars.
Using Rife, C Silver, Cats Claw and Ozone Saunas right now. About to add oregano oil back in the mix and change out my Cats Claw for a different brand. Started back up on the heavy metals treatment (took two years off) and felt better after the infusion this week.
I think the Keto diet has caused some of the mercury to move so I am using DMPS, zeolites and charcoal. There is a theory (I have no proof) that a longer term fast (I think 3 days or more) resets the body to help fight the invaders. I have only done one 24 hour fast but I do usually fast for 16 hours every weekday. with my last meal by 8pm and first meal at noon. That seems to have helped with the pre-diabetes.
I did one UVLRX a couple of months ago but did not experience much in the way of herx or benefits. It seems to be helping my son though. He gets one treatment a week.
All the Best,
MattH
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Matt,
Your mailbox is full.
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
Patches
your mail box is full
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Fixed it now.
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
Brussels.. can you tell me about the nuts?
I get the burning mouth, ripped skin from nuts . what is this from? did you say? I can't find that in your post, but may have missed it. I know the "space between lines" is best for most here, but for me it makes reading and retaining extremely difficult.
I need like a group of three lines on top of each other to be able to read it well.. anyway, that is not my concern so much, but I need to know more abouthe nuts thing please! Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I can tell you that nuts are very high histamine, Lisa.
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
hmmm that is interesting. I do have an issue with histamine
______
Posted by MattH (Member # 30846) on :
Patches,
I fixed my mail box.
All the Best,
Matt
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
Wakeup,
Now that you’ve taken a break for a few days and hopefully have calmed down, I will respond to your posts directed at me.
```````````````````````````` You said… "Little boxes made of ticky tacky? What does this have to do with me or anything about Lyme disease or Burrascano?
You have a strange sense of humor--- I guess you like to mock people who don't kow tow--- for some unknown reason ? Why do you do this? I never did anything mean to you, Tincup.”
``````````````````````````````````
First, it has nothing to do with a sense of humor.
The famous song (sung by Pete Seeger who also had Lyme) was just another way (a nice way I had assumed) to try to get you to look at the bigger picture being carried out throughout this thread by others.
And to try to get you to see you’ve severely limited what you are willing to do to treat Lyme by stating you only want a doc in NY, and a doc in your specific area too, and a doc who only treats “exactly” one way with no deviations.
And you are only intending on treating for a specified time period of 18 months. Those are your "rules" or conditions for treating Lyme.
My guess is you already know that no one fits inside that limited criteria (into that box).
To be treated with any hope of getting better you’ll need to get out of that “little box” before you have a chance to succeed.
The song says little boxes “all look the same”- and all the people in the (same looking) little houses all went to the same Universities.. etc.
The point there was that people aren’t all the same, and one specific protocol may work for some, but won’t work for everyone.
That’s all.
Sorry I made the assumption you’d get it. Next time if I am not clear, please just ask for an explanation.
As for this line of questions... you said...
`````````````````````````````````````` "Off hand--- just asking for curiosity's sake--- are you cured, Tincup? I simply asked if you were cured. Well are you cured? Are you a doctor? Or do you just play one anonymously on internet forums? Do you have a science credential? Research credentials? A PhD? an MD? What makes you so much more qualified than anyone else here? Attendance?"
``````````````````````````
To be clear, I never said I was more qualified than anyone else. Period.
I simply, like everyone else, expressed an opinion (with facts to support some of my opinions).
And I find it extraordinarily strange that for the several decades I worked as a volunteer helping people caught up in disasters, or who were in ambulances on the way to the ER’s, and while searching the woods for lost children, or bringing bodies off rough mountain terrains after plane wrecks, or when I was putting out a fire at someones home…
Not one person ever stopped me to ask if I was a doctor, or a PhD, or ask about my credentials, or ask about my own health circumstances. Especially with that “tone” you’ve expressed.
It's real simple. I offer help when I can. I offer facts when I can. I offer an opinion backed by facts, when I can.
That’s all.
If you can't or don't want to accept my help and still feel it is necessary for me to first share my personal life story and/or medical history online for the world to see before I can share my opinions here too, please do us both a favor.
Just don’t read my posts anymore. SOB.
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
Duncan...
Yes, you had stated exactly what I was trying to say. Unfortunately, I was typing while, and shortly after, you had posted your reply and I didn't see it right away.
And I liked your explanation very much so. You hit the nail on the head.
All of us are different and some things work for some, but not others. Perfect!
Thanks!
PS- You obviously did a much better job with your explanation than I did.
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
And Bb,
Thanks for standing up for me and our members here and our LLMDs who are under attack in this thread.
Sorry you were upset by it all. I was too. The title of this post is unfair, obscene and misleading to say the least.
Like you, I'd like to see info presented in a way that one group or person isn't put down just to promote someone or something else.
You, in fact, win my "One Tin Soldier Award" this week.
And for Petes sake, please don't anyone misconstrue this or make it something it's not. It is only with great honor I present this special award to Bb.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Okay, so what?
I should have said most...most...doctors have it wrong, including some Lyme drs.
But my point was lost by my headline and your jumping on me.
I still stand on my point. Most approaches to Lyme are just wrong.
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
Actually your point you just shared above and the title here don't match. You said in the title "Lyme Drs. Are All Wrong" and not "most approaches to Lyme are just wrong."
Ok. You asked.
The title could have been...
Protocol to help Lyme patients. Or...
Fruits can help with acid systems. Or..
This doctor has some interesting ideas. Or
Whatever.
The point is you don't need to cut down others just to share some educational material you think can help people.
That 'kick others down to make your point' tactic doesn't get you very far in any circumstances.
And yes, when you upset people by saying something so outrageous that few here agree with (Lyme drs. are all wrong), you can expect blow back about it rather than people being receptive to your message.
Kicking LLMDs here is as about as well received as screaming fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire.
Or like Jim Croce says in his song....
You don't tug on Superman's cape,
You don't spit into the wind,
You don't pull the mask off the old lone ranger and ...
Does that help explain it better Patches? Hope so.
And I'll stand on my point...
Lyme doctors are NOT all wrong.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
tin, thank you for expressing what i cannot.
many years ago, I worked in mortuary affairs on a military base and I've worked at one of the largest hospitals in this area. I have seen what disease and death can do to families.
I hate to see discord on this board.
my bottom line is there is no magic pill, cure, or doctor for everyone. what works for one will not work for another but to use descriptive terms for lyme and lyme patients does us all a grave injustice.
just as we all vary in size, color, shape, religious and political views, so do opinions on lyme treatments.
they say lyme is a great deceiver but apparently it is also a great divider and destroyer.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Lisa, the reason why people cannot eat this or that is not clear.
Names of new diseases appear every year, and your disease will change names when you go from one dr to another.
that's been my life, ever since I was not even a teenager.
Just see a new dr and get a new diagnosis: of course, any new diagnosis provide you NO TREATMENT possibility except than symptom relief drugs.
The only real truth, in my opinion, is that: people can eat less and less foods, either because they react with allergies, intolerance, fatigue, headaches, burning, or whatever reasons.
the gut is ill, that is the first starting point, in my opinion.
It lets big molecules pass to the lymph then blood, and that is recognized as bad to the immune system.
You can begin to simply react to this substance, then another, another...
I can concentrate on gut healing, because lyme is not preying on me any more and I have more time to treat other health conditions.
Probiotic capsules never did much to me, only mild help, but I need to take these forever, then keep changing...
The best solution, so far, is kimchi, for me. Full of sulphur inside. Some people cannot take sulphur, so they have to start somewhere else.
The longer the problem in the gut, the harder it is to heal and find solutions.
The more gut problems you accumulate, the puzzle gets almost impossible to solve. Until you get all those multiple-allergies that make you barely able to eat anything growing on planet earth.
So, the sooner you start trying to solve the problem, the better.
I would start avoiding the main allergens (nuts are among MAIN ALLERGENS), gluten, milk products, most citric fruits etc, then slowly fixing gut microbiota, then slowly reintroducing stuff back.
there is no one-rule-works-for-all, just because our guts are ill in different stages, and also because some people will have more problems with a set of microbes (such as bacteria) while others will have problems with candida or fungi.
The proposed diet should be a bit different too, as these microbes eat different foods too! ------------------ Patches contacted me in the past, he never tried to sell me anything.
--------------------- Certainly, for the last 10 years, I eat just a few types of nuts (like Brazil nuts) very moderately, and had to peel or I feel some burning coming.
Walnuts, peanuts were killers, in not a long past, specially with skin.
Now: no peeling, nothing, I just ingest whole chunks of different nuts daily, as substitute to carbs.
I won't boast too much, or I'm sure the damn allergies will come back as punishment! Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
I tried kimchi. tore my stomach up something awful.
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
Randibear...
You are certainly welcome. But, I think you did a good job here when you said...
"my bottom line is there is no magic pill, cure, or doctor for everyone. what works for one will not work for another but to use descriptive terms for lyme and lyme patients does us all a grave injustice."
Very good!
Thanks!
Posted by Marz (Member # 3446) on :
I definitely could see the benefits of the diet, but after reading this article, I would never do 100%.
The Florida Department of Health(DOH) Fort Meyers Unlicensed Activity(ULA) Unit announced that a joint
investigation with the Charlotte County Sheriff's Office has led to the issuance of a Formal Cease and Desist Order and
Citation to Robert Morse(Mr Fruits,berries and melon guy) in connection with the unlicensed practice of medicine and
naturopathy, both 3rd degree felonies punishable by a minimum of 1 year imprisionmemt and a 1000.00 fine.
The Dept of Health's ULA office recieved a complaint alleging Morse, of Port Charlotte, Florida was offering on his website
health care services. The website revealed Morse was representing himself as a naturopathic doctor, who could
assist patients in overcoming cancer, diabetes, high and low blood pressure, and many other medical conditions.
One complainant who was treated by a physician for diabetes was instructed by Morse to discontinue medications contrary
to the advice of the licensed physician. The ULA investigation by the DOH confirmed Morse was providing health care
services without the proper state license, which is a felony in the 3rd degree. Additionally in 1996, Morse was issued a
Cease and Desist Order by the DOH for improperly using the title "Doctor". Since this was a second effort on Robert Morse's
part to hold himself out as a health care provider, although not properly licensed, the Charlotte county Sheriff's forwarded the case th the 20th Judicial Circuit Attorney's Office for review and prosecution.
@ This information was obtained from the Florida Dept of Health website. If the information is incorrect, then it is the responsibility of the FDOH to correct it.
The following statement I obtained from Morse's website:
"Please note that Dr Morse is no longer seeing clients so he may focus on research, writing, and educating."
Yeah, o.k., doc.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Hey Bonnie,
Don't they do that to some of your LLmds?
Posted by willbeatthis (Member # 31111) on :
Give it up, Patches. Don't you know when you have lost. For the record, it's your manner that is disgusting. You said one thing very correct on your thread- your message was lost.
You have no credibility due to your anger, lack of respect for others and now, this. Go insult people somewhere else.
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
I know of not 1 LLMD who has had legal action taken against them for fraudently misrepresenting themselves as doctors.
Another community forum, Crohn's disease, has had similar bombardments from followers of Morse.
Same M.O. Belittle the sick. Your doctor knows nothing. Watch the videos. You're not willing to cure yourself. You don't have a clue. It's your fault you 're sick.
The forum founder banned the poster and closed the thread. But it's still in archives to read.
patches, You posted 13 links to his website on this thread. Really?
You stated "Lyme disease and its co infections are really only symptoms of an obstructed body that cannot handle the interference. . . whether it's Lyme or any other problem."
Show me proof to back up that statement.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
No Bonnie,
I am not getting into vendettas with you. There are so many people who have been healed by Dr. Morse.
Why do I need to defend him?
And, as far as the Master Fast System, the favorable Facebook testimonials are overwhelming.
Good luck to you, Bonnie.
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
HE 'S NOT A DOCTOR.
He only pretends to be one.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
He is an ND.
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
HE IS NOT A N.D.
In order to become a legitimate licensed and practicing Naturopathic Doctor, you would have to pass the "National Naturopathic Physician" licensing examinations.
In order to be eligible to take the NPLEX exams, you must have completed the appropriate academic requirements at an approved naturopathic medical program(ANMP).
An ANMP is a program that has accreditation from the Naturopathic Medical Education and is a minimum 4 year academic curriculum in basic biomedical science, clinical didactic studies, and clinical training.
Licensed Nauropathic Doctors must also fulfill their state-mandated continuing education requirements annually.
ROBERT MORSE HAS NONE OF THESE !
Also, while Florida doesn't currently license N.D.'s, lots of other states do. He would not qualify in those states either.
While he created a private membership club to sell his healing healthcare services, this may be a tactic to avoid more legal challenges.
Bottom line :
The only place he can say he 's an N.D. , is in jail.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
wow, Bonnie. Words and more words!
Posted by Bartenderbonnie (Member # 49177) on :
Educated Lyme warriors want FACTS, my dear boy.
P.S. I hold a degree in Mixology.
Posted by patches10025 (Member # 20983) on :
Just a question to you. Say Dr. Morse was the greatest healer in the world. Say he was like supposedly Jesus Christ or Edgar Cayce.
But they did not have an MD, ND or any other degree that you value so much.
Would you thrown them out because the medical establishment had not conferred them its approval stamp?
Why don't you really investigate Dr. Morse? He is in Florida, just like you. You might even learn something. Go talk to him, before you come to your conclusions.
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
Patches...
That's enough. You've made your point.
This Morris fellow isn't at all "like supposedly Jesus Christ" and should never be compared to Him.
You need to move on and stop tormenting people.
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
Time to lock the post, or better yet remove it.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
don't all doctors, whether md's or nd's, have to pass state exams, be licensed and certified? if you're not in compliance, then I would think. yeah, you are practising without a license.
it's up to the individual whether they want to go to a person like this or not, but it's up to the law whether or not they're legal.
tin, yep.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
If the department of health is prosecuting the man, he must be good!!!
You guys are happy with all that prosecution.
I'm sorry to say, but that is ridiculous.
Look at what is happening to our own LLMDs and naturopaths!! To chiropracters? To herbs, supplements?
Homeopathy is practically DEAD in Germany! That exact thing that saved me and my daughter finally out of lyme!
Dead, by lobbying and the LAW!!!
No more license to sell certain homeopathic products SUCH AS BORRELIA NOSODES, or herbs, or supplements: do you guys also praise that?
MDs are promoting cancer causing radiation to treat cancer.
Cancer causing chemicals to treat cancer.
Real poisons, dangerous treatments, and everyone think that's fine because they have a license?
They should be prosecuted!
A guy says fruits are good for us and he is the one to be attacked!?
Clap, clap.
Our LLMDs are ALSO going against the law, doing inappropriate things, if they treat you guys with long term abx and do not follow the IDSA protocol.
These boards are ALSO going after most LLMDs!
The guy whom I own my life back, mostly, is dr. K. How many times his office hasn't been invaded, devices confiscated?
The devices he uses for himself, he may not say anything about how good they are, risking to have his license taken off.
I find it a shame that we, patients who are fighting the 'system' for years, decades in my case, still support these sorts of prosecutions against natural treatments and non-conventional approaches.
If Morse was not getting any results, the board wouldn't have come to him.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
it's your choice. like I said people have a right to go to the dr of their choice. I'm done.
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